Episode 29 - How to Mix Face Yoga, Beauty Tools, Botox, and Lasers for a longer lasting Lewk with Shelly Marshall, Founder of BeautyShamans skincare (she's back!) (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 29.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters, we are so blessed to have Shelly Marshall aka the beauty shaman or beauty shamans with us today. She is back in season two. If you have listened to season one, she was in Episode 15. And that episode has done so well. She got so many downloads. So we wanted to have her back because I know a lot of the things we talked about. In the first season we had more questions and so we want to round it out and keep the questions going and hear more from from Shelly about all things guasha natural beauty etc. Natural and actually I want to ask you some questions today about injectables and things like that because I know we didn't get to it last time. So for those who didn't hear episode 15 Shelly is the founder of beauty shamans. She is a skin expert on a mission to help people raise the vibration of their skin using non toxic products, tools and rituals. She believes that beauty is rooted in health and mindset and our skin will reflect the things we consume. After years of experience and deep dives into cellular nutrition and aromatherapy, she developed a luxury line of Spa grade products for the skin to eat daily. She also teaches a unique style of facial healing using using a combination of facial massage, reflexology face yoga, and the ancient art of guasha. Her purpose is to help people shine their brightest light through practices of self love, therapeutic touch and healing their skin within. And Shelley's quote that I want to repeat, which I love is my purpose is not to heal you but to teach you how to heal yourself through the lens of skincare and self love, which is so nice. And for those of you that don't follow Shelly on Instagram, she has an incredible feed. It's called at beauty shamans. And I watched it daily, I watch all of your videos, all of your content, it's always changing. It's always new. It's always relaxing for me to watch you you're so beautiful and angelic and just the way you do all of your methods just inspires me every day to take care of myself even more. So thank you for coming back to the show. We're so happy to have you back.

Shelly: 2:41

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be back if

Amy: 2:45

you guys awesome. So we're gonna start again with our nirvana of the week, which for those of you who are new to the show, it's just something we want to take a step back, think about what brought us joy. I think it's really important as the fall is is is in full effect. And people seem to be busier than ever. It's good to take a step back and think about what was good this week. So I'll turn it to you Katie to tell us what was your Nirvana this week?

Katie: 3:09

Gee, I can't imagine doing now. I moved. Finally, we've only been discussing this move for I don't know how many months Amy's probably so sick of hearing about it. So we finally got and we moved into the house on Monday. And it's so good to be in our home. We've been so transient with the kids. And we've been living like nomads for the last month. And it's just good to be settled. We're getting settled. And I love the house. I love the house more than I would love to it before. You know like when you're in the space you find all the little things. You discover new stuff. So that is for sure it so yeah, yeah, it's like Nirvana of the year. I'm talking about Yeah.

Amy: 3:51

So I was thinking about this this morning, because I have been so stressed this week. I've just had a lot of work, a lot of stuff going on all good, but just really busy and been trying to take step backs and just reground myself. It's been a little hard this week. But last night I went to play golf. So I've been learning over the last year or so, how to play golf. I have done it over the years, but never have been consistent. Nor have I had time, but over quarantine and being home more. I've had a bit more time to take lessons and really work on it. Because I used to hate it. And now I'm turning into really liking it because I can actually hit the ball. So I'm thinking eventually I'll be able to play with my husband and kids and it'll be a nice activity for us but had a lesson last night and I hadn't gone in a couple of weeks and I did really well. So I was just really proud of myself because I hit the ball. Well I putted well, and I was like, Okay, I'm getting there, and I was feeling really good. So I came home kind of on a little Nirvana high. So that was mine of the week. What about you, Shelly?

Shelly: 4:47

Gee, I have a couple but I'll just, I'll touch on one. I had known about this subscription called gaia.com, which I'm sure a lot of people who are listening to this also You know, subscribe to gaia.com. But and it was recommended to me a few years ago. And I finally signed up for the subscription. And it, I've been feeling a lot, very low energy recently and just kind of stuck. And we also moved to new apartment, so you know, lots of new energy going on. And I started watching some of the documentaries and listening to some of the episodes on gaia.com. And it's just been so energizing, because a lot of it is based on spiritual practices, alternative healing techniques, alternative medicine, herbs, and you know, just the supernatural and metaphysical stuff and all this stuff that brings me joy and all the stuff that raises my vibration. So I've been feeling that, you know, being stuck in Instagram and emails, and really the news, my energy level was just totally tanking. And getting the subscription and watching a little bit of it each day has really raised my vibration and like, I just feel, I just feel so much lighter and so much more peaceful. It's like the Netflix of spiritual growth

Amy: 6:07

I heard of it is ga,

Shelly: 6:12

ga i a.com. Yeah, and it and it's like, it's it's set up, basically very similar to like Netflix or something. And you just go in, and you, you know, I want to watch this documentary, I want to watch this series, I want to do this yoga practice, I want to do this meditation, or you know, whatever. And it just, it has something for you, whatever, you're in the mood for that day, but it's always very uplifting, very eye opening, and it just gets my energy moving in the right direction of where I want to be in place. Great. That's

Amy: 6:41

good to know. I gotta try that. Because I think I've been feeling that way too. And you just described it. Well, kind of that low energy kind of stuck in a rut. And so yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I love that. Great. Well, getting into all the things. So one of the things I wanted to ask you about last time you were on the show, I bought it from you afterwards, because I really wanted to try it was this new face? Tool? Can you tell our listeners? Ah, there you go.

Shelly: 7:08

Yeah, what it does, I've

Amy: 7:10

used it I've, it's funny, I got it, and I started using it. But then I don't know, I kind of get out of the routine. So I need to get back in today. But can you tell us what it is and like how to use it and when the best time is to use it?

Shelly: 7:21

Sure. So um, so the new face. And there's a bunch of different kinds of, of microcurrent devices. But this is just the one I use because it's FDA approved. And because it's a professional strength device. But basically what microcurrent is, is it's a low level, energetic current that mimics the ionic currents in our own body, because you know, we are electrical beings. And so it kind of it kind of connects or stimulates that electrical current, which then activates and energizes cells to tone the muscles. So essentially, what microcurrent is doing is it's toning and strengthening the muscles. In this case of the face, they do have, you know, there are microcurrent for the body as well. But the face is so unique and that the muscles are directly connected to the skin. So you use a microcurrent device for lifting the face for improving the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. It can also it's also been FDA approved for I believe it's been FDA approved for increasing the proteins in the skin, collagen and elastin. So it's just a really great at home device that you can use. And this one that I sell is a professional device. So it's it's the strongest of this series. And if you use it consistently and when I say consistently that can be whatever it means to you. Some people use it every day. Some people use it three times a week, I shoot for two or three times a week just to maintain and it basically you don't feel anything at all but what it's basically doing is it's energizing the muscles, thus the muscle cells to then strengthen those muscles. And when the muscles are strengthened and they're lifted, your skin will also follow

Amy: 9:12

and how do you when is the best time to Yeah,

Shelly: 9:15

so, so electric microcurrent you don't feel it but it does need a water soluble medium on the skin in order to conduct that electricity so if there's any oil on the skin, the electrical currents won't work. So the device comes with a kit that's that is a water soluble gel. But sometimes if people just have access to ultrasound gel or simply just water that that you continue to spray on the skin you need water on the skin in order to activate the electrical currents. And then the idea is to go in the direction that the muscles are so you know you have the the zygomatic major up on the cheek area you have the zygomatic major minor also on the cheek but connecting more to the muscle around the eye. You have the resource muscle that kind of comes out to the side that helps us to smile, you have so many muscles in the face that they connect here in the mouth area or the nasal labial fold area, and then kind of connect back on the hairline near your ear. So the idea is to use it in a way that trains the muscles upward. And there is a five second timer in this. And the idea is to move this device slowly because you're activating and stimulating that cellular activity. So you know, it'll go beep, and then you just move it along.

Amy: 10:37

And it seems like the in between the beeps, it's so slow. And I'm like, Am I doing it too slow, it feels so

Shelly: 10:41

odd to do it slow. And sometimes you'll it's even recommended that once you get up to where the muscles attach that you hold it for another five seconds, ah, so you can do you know, five seconds, all the way up the cheek and then hold it for five seconds, it is a slow process, I typically pair this with a deep breathing exercise because there's no getting around the fact that you have to move slowly when using this. So you may as well just slow down everything. And just you know, really oxygenate your lungs, which oxygenates your skin and just make it a somewhat meditative practice at the same time. So there are a lot of different pathways to use this. And you can actually go to the company website or the company Instagram and they do great tutorials. That's all they do all the time is tutorials on how to use this, but the general idea is moving from the center of the face to the outside and upward just to lift and tone the muscles.

Amy: 11:41

Yeah, I was gonna say do you is it better to do it Morning or night? That

Shelly: 11:45

really depends. I don't really think it matters. Okay, I don't think I think it matters more of when is it going to be most useful to you in terms of when you can slow down and relax. So if the mornings are more relaxing for you, then do it in the morning, if it's if it's better to do it in the evening, when you have more time than maybe the evenings. Sometimes what I'll do is in the morning, I'll have like an extra 20 minutes. So what I'll do is after I get out of the shower, I'll apply the gel, I'll use the new face for about, you know, five to eight minutes, wipe off the gel put on all the rest of my skincare products, give myself a nice little massage. And then that's like, you know, that's like a 15 minute thing right there. 1520 minutes, and then I just I feel great. And then I'm like, Okay, I did it for today like tonight, I'm going to work on something else.

Amy: 12:35

Can you use something else? I know you were talking about the gel. Like I've tried it with a serum before, but I don't know if it works just because I don't like the way that that gel feels because then it feels sticky. And I guess I yeah, maybe didn't wipe it off as good. I just would rather use like a thinner kind of, but I don't know,

Shelly: 12:52

you can you just have to be careful that there's not too much of an oil content in the serum. And that's why I use the gel or I just use ultrasound gel because I really because you can't feel it. So the little sparks a little bit. Okay, if you're feeling the sparks, that means you don't have enough jell O, or you don't have enough of the product on

Amy: 13:15

them, then it was working.

Shelly: 13:17

Well, that's how you can feel that it's working. But you want to be careful because it's electricity or electrical currents, it could cause a skin irritation or burn. So if you're feeling that sparking, you want to apply a little bit more gel. And then I agree with you. I don't like the feeling of jello on my face. But I do a really good job of taking like a hot washcloth afterwards and wiping all of it off using a toner getting all of it off completely. I don't like leaving any gel on my face. Yeah. The other way that you can sometimes tell that it's working is it will sometimes in some people stimulate this tastes of metal in their mouth. I don't know if you've experienced that. But if you experience tasting metal in your mouth while you're using it, then you definitely know that it's working.

Katie: 14:04

So is that an okay thing to pay some metal? That's fine. That doesn't mean perfectly. Okay, good.

Shelly: 14:10

Okay, doesn't mean you're overdoing it.

Katie: 14:12

Alright, that's interesting. I think I had a facial at a spa. I don't like how many years ago? And they did they use some kind of tool like that. And it was like little apps, apps, apps apps. It just felt like an electrical current was kind of going through my body. Yeah. Which I guess this is now the home version of that, which is this was I mean, before I moved out of the city, so it's a long time ago. Yeah,

Shelly: 14:31

yeah, this is the ad home version. So it's, you know, safe to use the only contra indications to using a microcurrent pregnancy because of the you know, has like a frequency to it. Epilepsy again, because of the frequency and active cancers in the area. So like if you have thyroid cancer or some sort of mouth or throat cancer, and a pacemaker because again, it is electrical current so you don't want to interfere with that.

Katie: 14:59

I will Make sure my father does not use new face.

Shelly: 15:04

You can't use any microcurrent devices.

Amy: 15:06

That was super helpful. Thank you for going through that, because I'm sure other people have those questions too, when they're novices like me. Okay, now I want to talk to you about like fun, other non natural things like fillers and laser, because we have dermatologists on the show earlier this season. And we were talking to her a little bit about that stuff. But I know the last time you mentioned or I've seen you mentioned on your Instagram that you'll integrate, like people will do, you know, glass shop, but they'll also do sometimes Botox and fillers, and how do you kind of balance it? And what is your recommendation on you know, as you're aging, and kind of like, you know, you don't want to do too much you, you still want to look natural, but what's your sort of recommendation on how you integrate both?

Shelly: 15:50

If somebody wants to integrate both, I obviously always leave it up to my clients, I educate them on the pros and cons of all options before before I may even make any suggestions. So first, you know, someone has to be open to the idea of these advanced procedures like like Botox or fillers or even you know, lasers, which are pretty non invasive. But you know, it all depends on their concern. It depends on their budget, it depends on what their goals are, it depends on what they're willing to sacrifice, it depends on a lot of different things. So for someone who, you know, say comes in and, and they straight UPS said, Tell me I don't want Botox or fillers I but I have these concerns. Well, then I'm going to focus on teaching them home care, and stuff like that, you know, going over treatment plans and whatnot. If someone comes in and they say, I these lines on my forehead are just bothering me, I can't like i It's all I see in the mirror, I can't stand them, please just get rid of them. What can we do? I educate them obviously, on what the pros and cons are of something like Botox to which paralyzes the muscle, which then paralyzes the skin from wrinkling. And there are pros and cons. But then, you know, they're they're like, Well, how, you know, does this mean that I have to, you know, keep coming is there anything I can do to prolong? So what I've found is that when people come in for say like Botox on the on the eye, between the eyebrows, and on the forehead, we'll just take that, for example. The Botox is paralyzing the muscle, so then the skin is no longer creasing, it's no longer wrinkling. At the same time, there's not a lot of blood flow going through that muscle anymore, because we've stopped all activity. So what I usually tell them to do is maybe about an hour, you know, Botox will last anywhere from three and a half to five months. So I tell them at about, you know, a month, so three to four weeks after their treatment, they need to start incorporating these at home practices, massage, reflexology, guasha. And really, you know, mind to muscle like imagining what they are doing, you know, is what's having the effect on the area. And you know, at the same time the because of the Botox, the wrinkle has completely flattened out, right. So they're, they're happy they see it. But you know, the more that they can train their muscles with either face yoga, or with guasha or you know, ironing out like the connective tissue now that it's in that relaxed state, the more they can massage the muscle now that it's in the relaxed state, they may be able to prolong. And so when they start to see the movement come back, they can go to those techniques and do them. And it can help to prolong their need to do more. And they can maybe get to the point where instead of coming in four or five times a year, they're only coming in one or two times a year. It's because they're doing these at home practices and these add home techniques that are enhancing their results. And then they're going to be happier, obviously, because they're paying less they're doing less intervention, and they're taking more control into their own hands of how to care for themselves.

Amy: 19:04

Right and can you do the guasha sooner than a month like if you're used to doing guasha like I've been doing it more and I love it I just find it relaxing as well as you know lifting and all of that. I never know like because I just got botox I don't know two weeks ago like right around my forehead and right here and I'm like afraid to do that. I'm like, can you? Is it bad? She is a guasha right after you get Botox you have to wait a certain amount of time.

Shelly: 19:30

Yes, you do have to wait a certain amount of time as the product takes generally seven to 10 days. I would say in general just to keep it simple two weeks to kick in as you're as you're noticing. Two weeks is usually the peak effect. And then after that, you can go back to your guasha you can use the new face You Can you know go get a massage, you can get a facial, I say rule of thumb I tell people no massage or you know getting facials or treatments for two to three weeks just to be safe. because if you do, let's say you do go get a massage and put your face in a head crate or something. at day two or three, when the Botox hasn't fully kicked in, well, it may be possible that that that injection point, the medication in that injection point is going to spread to other muscles that you may not want to relax. So, you know, and you know, when the muscles relax on the forehead, they are pushing it down. And so you don't want to come out with this sort of like sad truth the way she is. Right? Yeah, yeah. So I always tell I always tell my clients the story, just to really hone in on you need to be careful. The there was a an instructor that I had, who told us the story that, you know, he he had this patient that came in, she was irregular, she came in for her Botox injections all the time. And one time she came back two weeks later, and she was completely, her eyes were almost closed, like completely droopy. And they were trying to figure out what happened. Because, you know, she had been so many times before they did the same treatment plan, Nothing like this had ever happened before. And the receptionist said, Yeah, but when you came in, weren't you wearing a bike helmet. And she said, put the bike helmet on for like, you know, 20 minutes to ride home. But that was enough time to spread the product to other muscles, which then settled into the muscles, and then cause that paralysis, which caused the droopiness in her eyes for five months,

Amy: 21:26

though, that's all my easy. That's so So I tell

Shelly: 21:29

that story to my clients so that they remember it. And you guys have to be really careful there. Yeah, I'll never forget that, ooh, you just have to be a little careful with that. But after two or three weeks, you can go back to doing guasha and facial massage, some people will say that it it wears the product off because you're increasing the metabolism. And that's definitely true. But I just I think that it's such a, it's such a great way to address your concerns is to is to blend you know, sort of the the Western medical approach to it with the sort of self care practices, because it just it flattens out the muscles when you really iron out the the connective tissue and really work on the muscles and bring circulation. And I just have seen the change in myself, I am at the point now where I no longer do Botox for my forehead. I did it for years and years. And I got to I use that practice that I just explained where in between my sessions I would do you know, things like the guasha. And I would you know, work it out with different tools and different techniques. And I'm at the point now where I basically trained my face to not move in that way. And I've trained and sort of broken up and loosened up enough of the muscle tissue and the connective tissue and energized it that when it does crease, I know how to flatten it right back out.

Amy: 22:53

Yeah, you have. And that's the same rule applies like the two to three weeks, I just saw you had your storyteller tool, which I use all the time. Same thing there. You don't want to use that for a couple of weeks, I would imagine to Yeah,

Shelly: 23:04

same thing, nothing on the forehead for like two or three weeks. Now if you have filler, like in the middle of the face or something same you can do? Well, sorry, let me back up. If you have, let's say you have like Botox up on the forehead, you can still do your squash on the bottom half of the face. Okay. But if you have, but if you start to put fillers in, same thing, the fillers can still be somewhat movable for the first two weeks. So you don't want to do any sort of manipulation on the face whatsoever. I just tell people rule of thumb, anytime you get any kind of injection, wait two to three weeks before you do anything.

Amy: 23:40

Okay, what's your thoughts around filler?

Shelly: 23:43

I think it's appropriate in some cases. And and I've done it in the past, I haven't done it in years now. Because you know, I just have figured out other ways to to lift my face. Naturally, cause your a shaman, which is you know, and I studied, I studied it to figure out how to do that. But I think that for some people, again, who are just I need that quick fix, I feel awful, I see myself like on Zoom, I, you know, I don't like the way it's looking what, you know, I, you know, I want to have the discipline, but I don't, I just need that extra lift to get me started. And for some people, that's all it is, is just giving them an extra little lift or a little fill an area to fill the void of where the collagen and the fat has been broken down. And then it it can then well, at least I tried to coach them or teach them to start using some of these practices that will just enhance those results. But I don't think it's a bad thing. I think, you know, everybody's individual and everybody, you know, has different goals and concerns and I'm not against it. I'm not,

Amy: 24:51

you know, I really appreciate that because I think that you're very unique in the sense that you have all you do all of the The guasha and the eastern type is called Eastern. I don't know if that's the right.

Shelly: 25:06

Yeah, just like its natural modality, yeah, the natural

Amy: 25:10

techniques, but then you also do the injectables. And that combination is really unique. Because a lot of times I've asked just to kind of see, I had asked my well, not dermatologist, she's, she's more of a surgeon who does my Botox. I asked one of the nurses there, or maybe her like, Oh, can I do wash after this? And they were like, Yeah, I think it's fine. Like they don't, they're not very educated on it. So the fact that you know, both is really important, because I think this, this meeting of both is like the best of both worlds and to be able to keep it going versus always getting something put in your face. So

Shelly: 25:43

I think the most important thing is how getting these injections, or using these natural modalities make someone feel, because if you look in the mirror, and you are happy with what you see, the chemicals released, when you feel that you love yourself, when you look in the mirror, those chemicals released in your body are so much more powerful, and stronger and more impactful than any neurotoxin, any sort of injectable filler you will ever put in your body. So for me, it's about finding out and helping people figure out what is going to make them feel their absolute best. Because self love and self discovery and just feeling good about yourself is just there's nothing that matches that.

Amy: 26:36

I just think that that's medicine. Yeah, I

Shelly: 26:39

just think I just think that whatever is going to make you feel your most beautiful, is going to make you feel your best. And then you're going to show up and perform everyday better for yourself and for others, you know, and really what we're what what am I really trying to do here, I'm trying to raise the vibration of the whole collective by starting with the individual. And so if we as individuals can feel good about ourselves, then we're doing our part. And you know, it starts with you know, I mean, beauty is very powerful. And it's a part of our everyday lives whether whether you like it or not. Beauty is an you know, health they go hand in hand, but it's a very powerful tool in connecting and and being a part of this world.

Katie: 27:23

Yeah, well, sad and connecting with yourself to write and just staying. Yeah, yeah. So it, it speaks greatly to who you are as a businesswoman because you're telling people how to see you less so that they can self care for themselves. You're teaching them tools to do at home so that they can do these injectables for your environment between so I'm sure your patients really appreciate that too. So I wanted to touch a little bit about I want to go back to fillers and lasers because I am totally green to it. I've done Botox, and I've had some Botox experiences better than others, I have hopped around who I see and I think that's important too. You have to find somebody that knows how to do exactly what you want. But fillers when when is it an appropriate time to use them? And where do you find most people want to use them?

Shelly: 28:13

Most people want to use them for their undereyes

Katie: 28:17

okay, that into a hollowness or to pump up the cheekbones, the same thing.

Shelly: 28:23

So what happens it Well, I would say the two areas that people think that they need the filler is the under eyes and the nasal labial folds, okay, but to get an area that is right, the area that I filled the most is right here in the mid mid face like the mid cheek area. And you know, I mean my instructors and teachers have told me in the past like always treat what they want like you know give them exactly you know, if they come in for nasal labial folds, even though you see the rest of their skin falling, you treat the nasal labial fold, but what I do but what I try to do instead is I talk to them and I show them okay, you're you know you want your under eyes filled you have this like darkness here at the same time. The reason why that's happening is because the cheeks are falling and that's also causing this nasal labial fold to be more prominent. So what's actually happening is you've lost volume and you've lost the elasticity and your skin is starting to fall here where it used to be the skin the muscle the collagen used to be up here on this cheekbone, but now it's fallen and that's where you see the void but where you really need filling is in the most natural looking place which is where you naturally had it before. Okay, naturally had it in the cheek

Amy: 29:42

so I that's literally eye opening because I have gotten filler under my eyes for that exact reason because they're hollow. They're dark and like every time I look in the mirror, I can't stand it. Katie knows I was complained about it. I did fill her once and I actually didn't like it because I thought it made my undereyes look worse it almost like pushed out like the fat pads underneath like it made in like, almost more exaggerated and I didn't want it. And I felt like I could see it. And then it's funny because I asked my doctor about that. And she's like, Yeah, I wouldn't do it there. She said, I would do it in a few other like little places like in the cheeks just because then that will give the overall appearance. And but she didn't explain it the way that you explained it. She just kind of recommended what she would do, which I haven't done. But that's actually a really interesting way to think about it. And I never thought about that. I'm going to I might have to try that. Yeah, I

Shelly: 30:31

mean, like some people, I will feel their undereyes because let's like their cheeks are nice and full. And then they have that fallenness. And it's like, okay, well, that's actually where you need it. But I would say maybe eight times out of 10, it's because they've lost volume in the cheek. And that's really where they need the filling. Because it's going to it's going to like push it up, it's going to push it up a little bit. And what's going to happen is it's going to make this under eye area look less like drab,

Amy: 30:59

I guess we're like less

Shelly: 31:00

droopy. And then at the same time, you know, pushing a little bit of the skin up here is going to have an indirect lift on the nasal labial fold. So it just gives, to me a much more natural looking appearance. And people are usually a lot happier when I do that. Versus like what you said just filling the under eyes because then they always come back. But it's still

Amy: 31:22

right, because it looks nice. Yeah, kind of like we're supposed

Shelly: 31:27

to have a little bit of a depression there. And we're and we're also supposed to have a little bit of a nasal nasal labial fold, like, right, you know, if you're thinking about getting fillers, for those reasons, just remember, you should still have a little bit of it there. Otherwise, you're gonna start, in my opinion looking older

Katie: 31:46

in exams, and so often right people overdo it, and then they people over stretch, and

Shelly: 31:51

then and then they end up looking older. To me. It looks like they're scared person trying to look young. Yeah. And it's, that's really not the point. You're really just trying to look great and rested for

Katie: 32:02

so then. So I know nothing of lasers. I don't Amy, do you do lasers? I

Amy: 32:07

know. But I want to know, I want to learn about Yeah, what it is because I always hear people doing them. And I'm like, What does that even mean? And what does it do?

Katie: 32:13

When do we do it?

Shelly: 32:14

There are different, there are different kinds of lasers. I've used a couple I haven't used anything like a real Fraxel or anything like that. But I do know the science behind it and what it's doing. There are other things that are more way more, you know, invasive like co2 resurfacing, which I don't I you know, I don't have really any experience with that. But the majority of lasers that you see at these med spas, that you go in, and they say yeah, there's like maybe one to three days downtime, or there's no downtime, what those lasers are doing, and the technology has really advanced a lot in the last 20 years. For the most part, a lot of these lasers that are used for collagen rejuvenation, are bypassing the top layer of the skin, and they're heating up or making little micro injuries to the collagen layer. And collagen once it has been stimulated, or once it has been damaged, naturally, will grow back stronger, thicker, newer, and it basically produces new collagen cells. So that's what most lasers, you know, that you would go to a med spa for are doing is they're just basically using heat and using the laser technology to make those micro injuries so that it's so that the collagen can can kind of come back a little bit more, with a little bit more vibrancy with a little bit more cushion. And that helps to fill the fine lines and wrinkles. It can help to detoxify the skin. So you have less redness, it helps to you know, kind of constrict all the blood vessels away from the skin. There are also some lasers that are used for pigmentation. And those kinds of lasers do not work so much on the collagen layer, but more on the top layer of the skin. Now you'll feel those ones more. And they'll hurt more, because you have more of your nerve endings on the top layer of the skin. And so what those are doing is it's attracting or the laser is attracted to the pigment and the damaged pigment. And that brings it up to the surface which then sloughs off after about a week or two. So ah, so probably, yeah, yeah. Okay, and it's different from melasma melasma. You can think of I don't remember if I explained this to you guys in the last episode, but in order to tell the difference between melasma and sun damage, if your pigmentation looks like a continent, it's melasma. And that means it's internal and it's deep, and you should not use laser on it. If your pigmentation looks like little islands, not a continent, but little islands, most likely that sun induced it's on the surface of your skin. It's damaged melanocytes and that can be treated with laser with peels and with you know, internal nutrition sunscreen, and it's

Katie: 34:54

a great way to break it down. I know like melasma I had that with my first pregnancy and a lot of women get one they're pregnant, but then it goes away. But age spots. Yeah, I mean, they're pretty common. And I see them and I have girlfriends that are my age that have them and then you know, my mom has them, it can happen at any time. So a laser is a go to to get rid of the age spot.

Shelly: 35:14

It can be if you have a certain skin type. Also there. There's also that caveat as well is that the lasers for pigment work best on light skin, if you have olive skin or any skin color darker than mine, it's not recommended because the laser is looking for pigment. So if you're you know of, you know, African descent, Indian, Hispanic, you know, dark Asian, you have pigment, and it could actually cause a burn. Okay, because that yeah, so so like you too, would be fine, because you have fair skin. So the laser is not going to, it's going to hone in on the pigmentation and it's not even going to see the rest of your, you know, the rest of your skin cells for someone who's darker that the laser will see all of it and it's going to try to pull all of it up, and that can cause a burn. Wow.

Amy: 36:05

So let me ask you a question. I have done micro needling and PRP is microneedling a laser.

Shelly: 36:11

No. So okay, lasers, lasers mimic what microneedling does on a very low scale. So micro needling is otherwise known as collagen induction therapy. And what it's doing is much like how the lasers bypass the top layer of skin and treat that collagen layer that that layer underneath the skin where collagen and elastin and blood vessels are. The microneedling is using physical, sterile needles to go through the top layer of skin and target that collagen elastin and blood vessel layer to make that make a physical injury. So that the collagen can grow back the benefit of doing microneedling is that because the the needles are going directly through the top layer of skin, you can infuse certain ingredients because you've made microchannels in the skin. So you can infuse vitamin C hyaluronic acid PRP, which is platelet rich plasma which helps the skin to heal faster. And it also helps to stimulate cell renewal, which happens on the top layer happens happens more on the top layer of the skin. That's where we see, you know, the sloughing of dead skin. So micro needling is like laser on steroids. So it's almost better. Okay, I didn't realize that I tell people when they come in, you know, with the with the laser that we have, I tell them if you want to do you know slow and you know, study and just have a maintenance routine, we're going to do laser. If you need a one and done, you know, 123 treatments to treat X concern. We're going to do a bootcamp of three microneedling spaced about four to six weeks apart. And then you can you can go to lasers to maintain

Katie: 38:02

it was a painful, it's funny.

Amy: 38:03

I well, I did it. And I can tell you, I It wasn't painful for me. I mean, because they put numbing, they put numbing? Yeah, so I felt it a little bit. But it was not bad at all was kind of relaxing, just because I was laying there not doing anything. So I was like oh,

Shelly: 38:18

so I've done it with and without I've done it without numbing. And let me tell you, it is

Amy: 38:24

very painful. I can't imagine without an Amen. So so the

Shelly: 38:28

way that they actually discovered how microneedling works is through tattoo artists. And they were noticing that, you know, these tattoo, people were getting tattooed the skin that was being micro that was being injected with ink. That skin and the directly surrounding that skin was healing better and faster, and the skin looked more plump. And it looked you know more beautiful. And so that's how they kind of discovered it was that interested view. If you stimulate this collagen layer, it's going to produce more collagen. So I mean, that's so it's basically when you do it without numbing cream, you're basically tattooing your entire face without

Amy: 39:11

ever doing. So let me ask you a question because I did it a couple years ago and I did three sessions exactly like what you said it made like a huge difference like my business so much more like plump, younger, like just rush. And then they basically said you could do it once a year just to kind of keep it going maintain. Yeah, but I did it another time. I guess more recently, and I didn't really see that big it was okay, but I didn't see that big of a difference like I did the first time. So is it worth continuing to do that? Or should you do one of these different lasers is like upkeep or should you do it again? Like what's the, um,

Shelly: 39:45

I usually tell people you know, to do their boot camp first, you know, like 123 or you know, some people that have really deep acne scars and so they're going to do four to six days four to six weeks apart. And then after that I say you know as maintenance We can do it, you know, every, every turn of the season. So three to four times a year, you just come in, we'll do your microneedling. And then you can do lasers to maintain. And then after a couple years, like if you really need to go through that boot camp again, I would say, you know, depending on your age, depending on your particulars, maybe every three to four years, you do that boot camp again. Because usually it'll do

Amy: 40:24

it you're saying, like three to four times a year after the boot camp?

Shelly: 40:29

Yeah, I think so.

Amy: 40:30

I haven't seen those

Shelly: 40:32

I usually recommend Yeah, I usually recommend to do that. Again, I will say that the very first time you do it is when you're going to see the most dramatic results. And then after that, it's it's never going to be the same dramatic effects. Right.

Katie: 40:46

So I want to touch on what you just said, for people that have acne scars. So bad acne scarring, like does is that what that's good for that will help relieve that for people?

Shelly: 40:57

Yes. So in my opinion, microneedling is one of the best treatments for acne scars. And really, I think micro needling is probably best suited for people with acne scars, more so then people with pigmentation issues, wrinkles, and called general you know, collagen rejuvenation, micro needling is going to help but the people who are going to see the most difference, in my opinion, are those with acne scars. Because what it's doing is it's remodeling, that collagen layer, and it's breaking down some of the scar tissue as well. So I've seen dramatic changes and transformations and people who have, you know, done the micro needling for acne scars. Now, if they have active acne, that's a little bit more difficult, because you really shouldn't be, you know, puncturing into, you know, active blemishes. But as long as you don't have too many breakouts, it can really be transformational for like the texture of your skin. I mean, I had a lot of acne scars. I mean, so many. And I mean, I have photos that I can send to you guys like the transformation that I went through doing micro needling and that's really my opinion, the only thing that really like helped, but I got rid of it. That's

Amy: 42:13

because micro needling help with sunspots, like you were talking about before.

Shelly: 42:18

In not directly it will help to stimulate you know, the new collagen and stimulate new skin cells, which kind of helps to slough off some of the some of the old damage pigment cells, it really helps to, like I said, make those micro channels in the skin so you can get actives in the skin, which can help with lifting off some of that pigment. So you can like, you know, put on like a vitamin C, which is going to help to brighten the skin, you can put on you know, like a hyaluronic acid which is going to hydrate the deeper layers of the skin, which helps with overall healing of the skin. So I wouldn't say like if someone came to me and said I have pigmentation, do you think I should do micro needling, it wouldn't be the first thing that I would that I would recommend for them but it might be an added benefit it

Amy: 43:03

might bonus for them. Maybe one of the other lasers would be better for that.

Shelly: 43:07

One of the other lasers and and honestly, I think chemical peels because then they need to be somewhat light chemical peels, I find that with pigmentation. You always want to treat slow and low because any sort of trauma, any sort of excessive heat or invasive procedure is actually going to trigger more pigmentation. So I always tell people go slow and low we'll start with peels just to kind of lift some of that pigment up. And then you know, maybe we'll you know do some lasers later on. But we'll still keep it very light.

Katie: 43:39

I think the the chemical peels what you're just saying about going slow and low is so important because there's always like the horror story of somebody that does one and they're so shockingly red. I when I was modeling in my early 20s. I went to photographers loft one time and he opened the door and he looked like a burn victim is Oh Honey, don't worry. I just had a chemical peel. It'd be right. You know? It's hilarious. I had to look at that.

Amy: 44:03

You're like but I still remember it and I'm not doing it.

Katie: 44:07

I will never do a chemical peel because you just have the right person do it right and then guide you in the right direction.

Shelly: 44:14

Yeah, exactly. Okay,

Amy: 44:16

so funny. Yeah, no, Shelly, what are your clients asking about now? Like what's on the radar? What's kind of, what are you seeing? Go um,

Shelly: 44:25

you know, a lot of people are seeing themselves on Zoom. And they're really unhappy with like, you know, the nasal labial fold the under eye area but a lot of people the double chin. A lot of people are really like I see this like huge bulge on go. Yeah, yeah, it is. And so a lot of people ask, What can I do for that I have so many people that come in what can I do for you know, for a double chin? And they asked about Kybella and they asked about you know CoolSculpting which I wouldn't recommend now it's Some of the stories that have come out, but you know, liposuction, I mean, I think that this area right here underneath the chin doesn't get enough love, because we're constantly looking down. And we're constantly on our phones, we're constantly on the computer, we're not exercising the muscle. So there's no circulation, there's no lymphatic flow, all the fat is accumulating there, it's not getting any exercise. And so I always show people, you know, I give them homework at the end of their service, and I say, Okay, you're going to start doing this every single day. So that, you know, you can start exercising this muscle, you're going to start doing some guasha underneath the neck to sort of move some of the toxins that are, you know, stuck in the fat there and, and also just stuck under the skin. And you're gonna start to see the difference, you know, after a couple weeks of doing this,

Amy: 45:54

and that you do a lot of these videos on your feet like this face yoga. Yeah.

Shelly: 45:59

Mm hmm. What are the easiest ones, and I'll show you guys one. And I can walk listeners through this is literally just to tilt your head back, like your chin is all the way up. And then you can you can either just kiss the ceiling or kiss, you know, kind of make a motion like you're kissing the moon almost. Or just stick your tongue to your upper lip. And you can feel that muscle. Yeah, you can feel it stretch. Yeah, it feels good. Yeah, feel the muscle underneath your chin activate. Right away, do it right away. And if you just do you know, a couple sets of that couple times a day, so you can really make it's so easy. It's so easy. But we don't do it enough. Because our heads are down. All right, constantly

Amy: 46:44

down. Yeah.

Katie: 46:45

It seems like that's a crime. I love that. It's got to be a prime guasha tool spot to I would imagine, right? Like getting in there with that. I feel like it would help. Yeah, it is yeah,

Shelly: 46:55

definitely you want to you know, kind of you can break it up a little bit, but then always kind of come to the side. Because you always want to come out to those lymph nodes on the

Katie: 47:04

around the year not necessarily down.

Shelly: 47:07

Not necessarily down, you can do that to sort of just massage it and get things moving. But the way that you want to drain it is from the center under the chin to underneath the jawline to the ear, and then down to the collarbone because that's the pathway where it can be your get eliminated.

Katie: 47:24

Yeah. All right, the old double Chen. Well, I just wanted to mention really quickly, I've been looking at your website, it's so beautiful. And you look like Do you have some new exciting products at some skincare stuff? What's this, um, maybe the mermaid I didn't notice it before it what

Shelly: 47:41

I was, Oh, my pet I've had that we are we are sort of about to revamp some of our packaging, upsize some of our packaging so people can get more out of the products, make them a little more convenient for people. And we are also going to be adding a couple new things here in there. On the line. I have some stuff in the works.

Amy: 48:03

Yeah. Well, you did an Instagram poll the other day where you asked people what they wanted. So I was wondering as a coach, probably something in the works.

Shelly: 48:10

Yeah, yeah. And we also have, you know, a couple, like a new tool coming out for the holidays, which is it's, I have a very limited supply. So that will be something around the holidays that people can grab. And I also have a very special project that I'm working on as well on the side that I that can reach more of international or global audience. And you know, people can take what I do in the treatment room and use it in the comfort of their own home, as well.

Katie: 48:41

So congratulations. Oh my gosh, exciting.

Amy: 48:45

Congrats. We're such big fans.

Katie: 48:47

We really are. The other thing that I love on your site is your section about the things that you love, too. There's some great products in there. So yeah, I highly recommend that you're finding that. Yeah, it's so good. It's so good.

Amy: 49:00

And I also love which I know you've had for a while but I bought it after we first talked was the seaweed cleanser. And it's it is my favorite thing. It's like is there like peppermint or something in there? Like

Shelly: 49:11

some there's peppermint Yeah. And it was funny because

Amy: 49:15

I was away with a girlfriend of mine. And I was like, try this. And she's like, Oh, I love this. And I was like, Yeah, I think there's peppermint or something in it.

Shelly: 49:21

Yeah, it's the peppermint but also, you know, we make and formulate our products with pure seaweed or I'm sorry with pure seaweed, but also salt water, sea water, seawater, okay. And that is sort of the special ingredient in pretty much all products. The water based products, at least is the seawater, because the ocean has so many minerals. And what happens is those sort of ions, you know, from the from the different minerals and trace elements, they're, they're electrically charged and they're, you know, biologically are they they are with your own skin because you know that the the minerals in the seaweed are very compatible with your own blood plasma. So what you're feeling is a little bit of that peppermint, but you're also probably feeling sort of the magic from the ocean on your skin.

Katie: 50:12

That's very well, yes,

Amy: 50:14

I love it. Okay, so we did this last time, we're going to do it again, because you might have new answers. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack lately?

Shelly: 50:22

Face yoga?

Katie: 50:24

Hmm, yep. Yeah. So I need to get into it. Yeah, did you just teach yourself how to do it? Or

Shelly: 50:31

I'm taking a course right now. And I'm nearing the end of it. I'm taking a teacher certification course for face yoga. And it is so amazing. And it's so easy to do. It requires no tools it requires just just you're watching TV. Yeah, yeah, I do it with, you know, walking down the street with a mask on and no one knows. No one even sees it. So face yoga has I just think that the exercising the muscles of the face is so underrated and not utilized enough. And you know, if you don't use it, you lose it.

Katie: 51:07

So sure. Can you show us a little teeny bit of face? Yeah,

Shelly: 51:10

sure. So yeah, so this one, I like to call the happy the happy child. And it's where you stick your bottom lip onto your top, you lift the corners of your mouth, and then press your tongue to the roof of your mouth. And while you're doing that, you activate your cheeks, and you relax the rest of the face. So I'll show you how to do it.

Katie: 51:34

You can say it's kind of hard to do. Ah, oh my gosh, that's great. That is so

Shelly: 51:47

relaxed up here, relax up here and you want to activate here. Stick your tongue on the roof. I'm

Amy: 51:53

putting this on video. This is hilarious.

Shelly: 51:58

And then if you tilt your chin back, you also get that stretch here. So it's like an all

Katie: 52:02

in Nice. I love that. It's so great. Yeah, I love it. Fun, fun, fun. Alright, so the next one, we call five minute flow. I don't know if you remember. But Uber just pinged you. You're just getting out of the shower, got no time to get ready. What are you going to do really quickly to get yourself out the door? And in that Uber on time?

Shelly: 52:22

Oh my gosh, I do remember this question. And I I remember last time I was like, Oh, I'm just I'm completely naked. And I put oil all over my body. And yes, I would still do that. But I want to give a different answer. So I would probably I just got out of the shower. I'm going to I'm going to spray my face with one of my toners I'm going to apply some oil to my face. And as I'm getting dressed, I'm going to be doing some of my face yoga poses. Nice.

Amy: 52:55

Good, nice. Good one. And how are you maintain your daily Nirvana lately? I know you have your fabulous new apartment with all that beautiful natural light coming in. But what were you doing lately? Well,

Shelly: 53:04

yeah, I was actually gonna say now that I have this new apartment with this beautiful East facing balcony, we get the morning sunlight. So what I've been doing is every morning I do about five to 10 minutes of stretching and then I sit silently for five to 10 minutes with my face facing the sun and I just sort of take that in and it just sort of grounds me right you know, before the start of the day before I have any coffee. Anything is that's the first thing I've been doing.

Katie: 53:29

That sounds no magical. Yeah, well, that sounds fantastic. I think I could get up and have a little sun on my face every day and be a much better person. I need that. So thank you for sharing. Amy, you have a product recommendation for us right I'd love to hear what it is.

Amy: 53:46

I do I do so in season one I did a review of the Maybelline sky high mascara which was trending on tick tock and I love it and I still love that because it really makes your lashes long but I found something better. Which is the Ilia i Li a Ilia fullest Volumizing Mascara. Do you know Celli? Yeah, yeah. And I love it. So it's $28 you can get on ilia.com Sephora, etc. And this formulas clean so I feel much better about using it. It's a volume volumizing mascara that wraps each lash in weightless buildable volume without flaking, smudging, irritating even the most sensitive eyes which I can attest to. And I just love it I've been testing it out over the last month and it's just as good if not better than the sky high because I feel like the sky high made my lashes long but didn't really make them thick and this really does both and I just feel like it gives me a fuller like lush look Shelly's you feel the same way.

Shelly: 54:44

Yes I love that mascara I've been using it and I at this point it's now my go to

Amy: 54:49

now totally and I love the branding is just clean and pretty and it's a similar color color to our Nirvana sisters branding, so of course I love it but I also love the tube because it's thick. It's just like kind of feels good in the hand. There's just something about it. It's like a nice wait. So that's my reco of the week. Definitely a great, great mascara. We're still wearing masks. So you gotta have those eyes looking good. So that's my record of the week. And Katie, I think you have a mantra to close this out.

Katie: 55:15

I do. And I think this will definitely hit home for those of us that have had a stressful few weeks, which it seems, is always going on in the fall when everyone's transitioning back to work, or back to school with the kids. And then of course, you know, it's q4, if you're working, you're slammed and you've got crazy things like a move. It's, it's all nuts. So to remind us, my strength is greater than my struggle. And it will always get us through because we are strong and powerful. And any thing that hits us along the way, is just going to make us stronger. So there you

Amy: 55:50

go. Good one.

Katie: 55:52

Yeah. All right. Well, Shelly, thank you so much. It was so good to see you and to have your energy and your vibe. We just We love you so much. And we are so honored and thrilled to have you. Thank you so much. And we can't wait to

Amy: 56:05

see us in the city because we're definitely doing that. But yes, thank you so much for being on the show and being our resident beauty Shaman.

Shelly: 56:14

You guys so much for having me.

Amy: 56:17

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 28 - Fitness, Self Image + 6 Effective Skincare Products for Men with Model and Personal Trainer, Alon Reitchuk (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 28.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Unknown: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. What's up Nirvana sisters family it's Amy. Before we get into this week's episode, I wanted to thank you all for your support. We are so grateful and we would love for you to please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Apple podcasts Stitcher. castbox pod chaser and podcast addict I know all have ratings and reviews. So if you would take the time and do that we would be so so appreciative. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. It's a good one.

Unknown: 1:05

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters. So this week I'm so excited as as Amy because we have a first happening. We have our first male guest of the entire series ever. So he's going to be our honorary Nirvana brother. And he also just happens to be a very dear longtime friend of mine. He is a model that's how we know each other. And now a very successful personal trainer and influencer and his name is alone, right? Check. Hi, alone. Hello.

Amy: 1:40

So nice to meet you. I've heard so much about Thank you for having me.

Unknown: 1:43

Thank you for having me. So I learned I met in the modeling industry. what seems like forever ago we were in our early 20s and wild and crazy in New York and he's a very successful model. You have walked in fashion shows for Dolce and Gabbana, Valentino, you've been in vogue USA, you've been modeling for magazines, billboards, etc, for years, and then you moved on to your professional personal training career. At some point, this is actually super cool. Adidas sponsored you as one of their professional athletes. And he did the Tel Aviv 2014 Adidas marathon campaign, which is pretty epic. And now your main focus is being a certified personal trainer and Nutrition Advisor. And you are highly specialized across the board. You work with pregnant women post postpartum, you work with women coming out of plastic surgery, and so much more. And at one point, developed your own unique training technique which we will dive into and opened your own hips studio, so I can't wait to hear all about it. We're so happy you're here.

Amy: 2:50

Very impressive.

Unknown: 2:51

Thanks for being here. Bam. Aim. What was your nirvana of the week?

Amy: 2:55

Well, this is sort of a I was telling Katie before we started recording, alone, my dog, my little baby dog is 16 and a half years old. And he's kind of in the last chapter, I would say. And it's kind of a weird time because he was doing well. And then all of a sudden, the last few weeks, it's just been not great. And so and I have two boys, and it's been a little bit emotional. But anyway, he's a great dog. And he just had an episode last night, which was so sad. He like, couldn't get his bearings, and he was off balance. Anyway, I literally slept on the floor with him last night, I created this bed and I slept on the floor with him. And even though it's kind of sad, it was sort of this bittersweet moment because he was like, literally in my womb, He was like, in my belly. He couldn't relax because he was nervous because of all this stuff going on. But I finally was able to relax him and he was like, literally in my stomach. I was holding him and he just like, let our breath out and just like relaxed, and then he ended up going back to sleep. But I laid there with him for hours, which I haven't done probably since he was a puppy and it was just like a sweet, cute moment. One on one with Him, which I never get. And it was an older night, which is why I'm exhausted today. But anyway, it was kind of a it was a Nirvana because it brought me joy because it was just I was making him feel better. And it was just a sweet moment. He's my firstborn. He's 16 and a half of my other boys are 14 and 11. So you know, I feel very,

Unknown: 4:16

very good to just about to. I was just about to ask, I guess you had to put the dog before you had your babies before you educate dad.

Amy: 4:24

So he's my first baby. So it's, it's, yeah, it's an interesting time. But yeah, so that's me. What about you, Katie?

Unknown: 4:31

Yeah, that's I mean, that's really sweet. Has your first baby. I know how that is a teddy on my nirvana of the week happened this morning. I took a kundalini yoga class this morning, which I don't know. Are you you're familiar with Yeah. And Amy, are you familiar? You've heard of it. So I've never taken one before but it was a 90 minute Kundalini class. And basically, it's like a meditation with yoga asanas and you can hold a pose anywhere from two minutes. for five minutes, not like an a yoga pose, but, you know, meditation poses. And I think at one point I even held on for maybe like 20 minutes, but it was just really, really cool. They also did a gong sound bath at the end. And it was a you went to a class. I went to it. Yeah, that's Yeah, yeah, it was really, it was really cool. It was I had like, I feel like I had an emotional release. So it was just, it was really super special. And I'm excited to do it again. So I'm definitely going to sell them on JIRA nirvana. So I'm currently in Paris, I went to my husband, family, brothers and sisters, I met these parents, but it's gonna be it was the first time I met the sisters and brothers. And it was really nice and happy. It's also the Jewish holidays. So Katie, happy Jewish holidays. I woke up this morning, and I felt a bit tired and gloomy outside today. And like yesterday was really sunny and beautiful. And I went to the park and I ran eight miles. And it was beautiful. I sweat it out. All the bad energy. I cleared my body. And I feel I feel way better. Where we've arrived. And yeah, so that's my Nirvana off today.

Amy: 6:13

That's on I have. Yeah,

Unknown: 6:15

I think I have a little moment of Nirvana every day. Something that I really love to do. That really puts me together and makes me feel good with the rest of my day, even if things don't go smoothly. Just this little moment. Always. Always bring me back to, to my conscious and yeah, so today, the 10 kilometer, a eight mile run was the was this Nirvana moment for me. It's green and beautiful in Paris. And it's a gorgeous city. And it's also a way to, to view and explore this beautiful place alone is originally from Tel Aviv, and you've lived in Tel Aviv, New York, London. Now, you did live in Paris at one point. I lived in Paris. I lived in Paris briefly because I've been in and out just on jobs. And also I've lived in Germany, in Hamburg, and in Berlin for a while. I was racing born raised in Tel Aviv. And then when I was 18, I moved to the UK to the US, sorry. And then I moved back to Israel. And then I traveled around Europe working for modeling agencies and doing some major jobs. And now I'm in London, the past two and a half years. Yeah, I moved to London. First, because I basically wrote a trademark, I had a concept of hit fitness, that include boxing, rowing, lifting, and cycling. And I just travel around the world, doing presentations about my concept until I found an investor in the UK. And two years ago, we opened a studio, this beautiful multi million studio, and unfortunately, did not survive. COVID. So I'm back to basics. I'm on my own again. And currently, I'm doing some private trainings, I see some clients and also I train some clients on Zoom. I have couple of clients that I train in Dubai, and in New York. So yeah, I keep myself busy. Yeah. So how when did you start personal training? At what point? Did you transition from modeling into personal training? Basically, I never stopped modeling. I take jobs all the time, but more. Right now I'm more like my own agent. I don't have an agency for modeling because I have quite a big platform on my Instagram. So I get I get modeling jobs, and I started to be a private trainer. I think 10 years ago after I finished my study, I studied in sport Institute in Israel called Wingate. I studied sport and nutrition. I started to be a private trainer. And yeah, since then, that's what I do.

Amy: 9:01

Speaking of Israel, Katie and I, hopefully will be going on a trip next year to Israel and we'll be going to Tel Aviv for my son's my, my youngest son's Bar Mitzvah, we're hopefully planning student Israel so we'll be able to visit your hometown.

Unknown: 9:15

I did not realize you Jewish as well. So happy support to you as well. We've touched on how you started your your modeling career, personal training career and also you have an insane social media following. I mean, obviously, it's because you're absolutely gorgeous. And you're incredible in front of the camera, but how you have like, what over 200k followers on Instagram, is that right? I have I have 200k overall actually on Instagram. I have 150k Currently, but I have another platform, which is Facebook, and I'm starting my YouTube page. So it's altogether 200,000 on Instagram at the moment we have 15 It goes up and down all the time. How did you do you feel like it's just because you're super consistent with posting and sharing and that that has a lot to do with it. Like how did you make that happen. You know what, I've never invested any money on growing my social media platform, I think I was always authentic and true to who I am. And my style, what I believe in, I was always slightly different than others, I always had my opinion about things, and I always lead in my own direction, and ever want to follow me. Great ever not. It's also great, you know, and I was just authentic and honest about who I am. And I also grew and evolved and changed with the years, you know, and it just organically grew. Just just being myself and being honest to who I am sharing my life sharing my journey. Also, like we did deep awareness, this social media is not our real life. And we are choosing choosing to share what we are choosing to share, but it doesn't reflect who we really are for, for you know, 100%. But yeah, I think I think authenticity and honesty about who you are, for me is the key. Absolutely.

Amy: 11:04

I agree. So I have a question for you. So tell us your favorite thing about personal training, your favorite thing about modeling and then to tell us your least favorite thing about both of those things?

Unknown: 11:15

Okay, so first of all, I like I like fashion, but let's start with modeling. I love fashion. And I love climbing up. And I love that people actually make want to make the best of themselves, you know, visually and to look at the best. And I think fitness and, and fashion, they are very much aligned. And they may very much be together. Because for my clients, for example, I always tell them, if you look in the mirror, and you satisfied who you see, and just go out of the shower, look in the mirror, if it makes you smile, that's a good. And I also think that like clothes should not cover who you are, I think you should be happy with who you are. The clothes is just fabrics, you know, to make us happier. But if you are glowing from the inside, and if your aura is positive and good. So that's what's most important about fashion, I have a love and hate relationship with it because I have I have some very bad experience with fashion and some good experience with fashion. You know, I started really early. And I think it shaped my personality in many aspects because I didn't always had a good experience with it. You know, I started as a 717 year old kid, I was thrown in Milan, I did the first show that I did was Dolce Gabbana, everybody was older than me, I was treated like, you know, like an adult, which I wasn't, you know, and the things that will say to me sometimes hurt me, and I think shaped my personality and subconsciously I built walls. And you know, I made me very, very, I don't know, sometimes separate, like, separated from my emotions. And you know, you put up a line how to protect yourself, it can be an ugly industry. Yeah. And it reflects on anything on anything in my life, you know, especially on my relationships because we knew are trying to protect yourself. Sometimes you cannot be very vulnerable and honest and transparent with your feelings and with your emotions, and especially when it comes to love and relationships with any type of relationship on the scale. If it's romantic relationship friendly relationship, family relationship, I think all these boundaries that they subconsciously build harm me in a way. On the other way. You know, I've made a lot of money. I traveled the world executed my love for fashion and for style. It helped me grow my role, my style, and you know, know exactly what I like and what I don't like be involved with people that are very much like me, meet very interesting people along the way, like JT about everything that I've done in all my journey. I don't regret anything because I'm at the end of the day, I'm a happy person and I'm very happy with who I am. What about your love hate for personal training? Do you is there something you love the most about and something you just like the most about it, I cannot say that there is something that I don't like to buy personal training to be honest with you. I just love to take people and show them the way to make a better version of themselves you know and take people as a project start started at some point in the finishing point have this person blog to see them blossom in front of my eyes and you know, be happy with their achievement and be happy with their new lifestyle and the new routine. And see this transformation is just fascinating. Never gets old really. So you told me that you're focusing a lot right now your expertise you're working with a lot of women that are either post pregnancy and post plastic surgery. Let's touch on that a little bit. What what is something for our listener that just had a baby? What would you what would you say to help them get back to where they I'm gonna be so first of all, I train girls that are actually very progressive in a pregnancy, I have two girls that I train now that they are in the eight months, but they're still training. And I must say, like people that have a training routine prior to their to their pregnancy can carry on training. And it's actually very good for the particular cardiovascular and it's very healthy for the baby. On post training. I currently don't train any girls, but I've had a lot of girls that I that I've trained in the past have been after like couple of pregnancies, actually after two or three babies. And you know, it's a process. But some girls can get into a better shape than they were before their pregnancy, and into results that they actually did not believe that they will reach after their pregnancy, girls with pregnancy, after pregnancy, after they give birth. The most important is to get the strength back to their core to midsection, a lot of concentration about the area of the pelvis, about all the core muscle, oblique and abdominal area that needs basically to be refurbished if you can, if you can say that way, because this is the most areas that are being damaged after pregnancy, I can say that you can see very, very good results. And some girls again, get to a better shape and to a better physique than they were before the pregnancy. Basically, I start with them, I start with them from a very, very, very foundation of like really simple aircraft, exercising of even breathing, you bring you know, it's exhale, and inhale to get the strength of the of the core back to the body. And then I start like a little bit more and more and more harder exercises, planks, abs exercises, a lot of bridges of the pelvis, you know, there, I can basically do a Mat Workout for an hour with the girl with bunch of different exercises to basically rehabilitate this area. That makes sense. And then is it kind of somewhat similar for these plastic surgery, post plastic surgery clients that you're working on? It depends what kind of plastic surgery if it's a tummy tuck. So basically girls with a tummy tuck, it's a super, super difficult surgery, you know, it takes like six months to just recover from, from the surgery and to recover from all the wounds and you know, the stitches and all of that. And a lot of girls that do atomic tag, they do a bob boob job at the same time, I guess because they open already. They want to

Amy: 17:40

get a two for one.

Unknown: 17:42

Yeah, yeah. So a lot of girls, I don't know, I think I, I see this in in London, for example, I've trained, I think it's fourth, the fourth person that I trained with tummy tuck and boob job that this procedure done at the same time. So basically, you know, tummy tuck is just like, you know, it takes the skin and stretching it back and put it back on. So you don't really have problem with it with the muscle area there. So it's very individually depends what each person needs some girls, you know, they have a tummy tuck, but they still have access fat in different areas in their body that they need to work on. Some of them have a very bad Cellulite is in the legs. So you need to even out and you know, make the body of the best version of itself. I currently train a 55 year old woman, she had a tummy tuck and a boob job. And you know, this area looks great, but she's very weak, she needs a lot of work on the core area because also if your core is weak, you get that big belly because there is nothing to protect the the, you know, the intestines, the inside part of your body. If you make it stronger than everything stuck in it looks firmer and smaller. So yeah, we work on that. She you know, she has a lot of similarities in her legs. So that needs to be executed and work on very aggressively, you know, but it's really it's really individual because girls after Tomita can do job. Each girls is individual they need different things. So you can't really I can't really give you one solution or one remedy of what I do with them.

Amy: 19:18

What are you doing? What are you doing with that one client about cellulite? Is it more strength training? Is it Pilates like what types of things help to make it look better? I know you can't get rid of it but what things help it help?

Unknown: 19:33

So I'll be honest here satellites if they really did, you cannot entirely 100% Get rid of them. Especially when you're in a progressive age after 50 It's very it's very hard to reverse it but if you make the muscle stronger, you make the skin stretch and then it looks smoother and better. You know, cellulite is usually comes in the hamstring area in the back of your legs. This is the most common area to have cellulite just They do a lot of squats, a lot of lunges, a lot of deadlifts, a lot of bridges on the floor. And you know, like really working specifically on this area, you get some good results, but you cannot get 100% rate of cellulitis, unfortunately, where does cardio come into into play as well? I mean, I would imagine, do you, of course, there's, there's got to be a balance of having both to really achieve results. So yeah, you know, a lot of girls that believe that they want to lose, they believe they want to lose weight, they think the cardio is the answer. But girls don't believe don't understand. Also, guys don't understand that. Like, if you do only cardio, it's actually not good for your muscles. And it doesn't make your body look firm and tight and strong. So what happens is, some girls or guys do five sessions of cardio a week, and then they lose all the fat in the body, but their muscles become very, very soggy. You know, so it's a very, very specific, gentle balance between cardio and strength, which need needs to be executed together. I would imagine just all body types are different. Like there's no, you have to have, essentially, you have to have a balance of building muscle mass, and also cardiovascular exercise. And then what about in regards to like stretching and leaning out and yoga and things like that makes? A question came up when you're talking about say, like, when you use a roller like you rolling out the Maya fascia, does that do anything for cellulite at all? Or not really, I think that like the normal traditional sports are the most helpful for cellulite. So that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about strength. I'm talking about cardio, and I'm talking about proper stretching every time after workout, and even have like the have half an hour, once a week of proper stretching, because this is very important, very rewarding to your body. Otherwise, if you don't stretch your body accumulate a lot of lactic acid, which is not allowing you free mobility of your muscles. It makes the muscles really tight and stiff. And we don't want that, in my opinion. Muscles should be sorry, my long and Leander Yeah,

Amy: 22:20

exactly. Especially for men, there's they just most men I know can't like touch their feet. Like they're just so much tighter than women who do more like stretching. And so what's your stance on so

Unknown: 22:34

I tell you that a year ago, I'm I'm not a big lover of stretching, but I have to do it. A year ago, I was working out. And I was doing deadlifts with really heavy bar in the gym. And I felt that something cracking in my back and on the way out of the gym, I fell on the floor without the ability of getting up the floor. Oh my god. Luckily, luckily, I didn't you know, I didn't do any river, a river irreversible damage to my body. But I had like, proper muscle spasm in my back that didn't allow me to stand up straight for like two months. Wow. Horrible, horrible, it was super painful is the most excruciating pain I've ever felt in my life. And since then, I realized that even if I don't like it like any other thing that sometimes we don't like in life, and we have to do this is one of them. I don't like it, but I have to stretch otherwise, I will not be able to, you know, to execute the kind of workouts that I do the long runnings that I do. And if I have to do a little something that I don't like in order to execute all these great things that I love to do, that's what it is. Stretching is super important and super, I think crucial to people that are working out on a daily base. And even if you don't like it, you need to give it the time. Otherwise it will retaliate at some point right up to my, my husband, Adam, he, he couldn't touch his toes at all. Like he couldn't even come close. He couldn't even touch like mid Shin almost for a really long time. And then he started boxing. He's going to a boxing studio, where they also box and then they also do hit routines. And then they also stretch. And now he's super flexible. I mean, it's amazing that he's got all of that from one program. But

Amy: 24:27

yeah, I mean probably helps us back to that for sure he

Unknown: 24:31

has he has had a lot of really bad back. Yeah, it's helped him a lot. Today for example, after my run, I really felt shortness in my lower back, you know, because the impact of your foot your feet to the floor. Makes this make this muscle really tight. I guess I'm also in my late 30s now so you know when you're getting older, it's you feel these things more than in the past. So you have to give it attention. I was in the shower. I didn't have time to work to do a proper stretching but that We're standing up in the shower, and forcing myself to stretch myself in these three minutes that I have in the shower. So I don't feel I don't feel my back later on today, if you have to, you have to and you can always find time for it. And to be honest with you people that working out four or five times a week, it's crucial and super important to do yoga. Because yoga, balance it out. The cardio, the heat workouts, the boxing, they're running the strength, whatever you do, you need to do the stretching. Yeah, so we Amy and I both kind of like rotate everything right like I do. reformer Pilates yoga. And then like, like cardio, I don't do intense cardio. But Amy, tell them what you do.

Amy: 25:42

Yeah, I mean, I kind of do whatever feels intuitive that day, I try to move at least 20 minutes a day, sometimes more, sometimes less, I run, I spin, I do a lot of like floor Pilates type work, yoga, just kind of depends. I've just tried to mix it up. Lately, I've been doing more yoga, pilates, because I've been more in that mode. I haven't i i was actually running a couple weeks ago, or actually it was over the summer. And I felt the next day my knee like the outer part of my left knee was hurting. And I was like, it's gonna take a break because it made me a little bit nervous because it's happened to me before. And it's like I could hear it when I was like going up and down the stairs as I'm going to labor. So I haven't really run since then I've just been like, walking, but I'll do a lot of times I'll do a conference call. And I'll just like go on my treadmill and walk the whole time. And it's great. You know, I like burned a lot of calories, they feel good. So just kind of depends on I feel Katie and I talked about this last time, I feel like the older you get, the less like of this intense cardio is appealing because I used to do tons of intense cardio and I like, I just want to do that. Now. Oil is good. When you

Unknown: 26:45

get older, the recovery is very important in order to maintain like good health and good workouts. Also another tip that is important to say, if you do a lot of cardio, and if you go walk on the treadmill, going in incline on the treadmill is much healthier for your joints, especially for your knees than going down. Yeah. All flat or downhill is not very important for your knees. Because I mean, it the movement is invisible. But basically, when you when you're going downhill or you're going flat, the you lock your knee in a way that is not very, it's not very good for it. When you're going uphill, it's actually not happening because you're not blocking your knees entirely. And then you kind of protect them. So the movement is much healthier. If you do incline or one incline, it's very important to keep the gradient because it's really protecting your, your joints. I've done marathons in my life. And you know, if I had a long distance of running downhill, I really felt the impact after on my knees. Yeah, I try to walk always with somewhat of an implant, even if it's just like a one or a two. Just something right.

Amy: 27:59

Yeah. And it helps your hamstrings too.

Unknown: 28:01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Also, if you do a lot of cardio, it's really good. It's really important to do some strength workouts on your legs because your muscle, if the fibers are strong and firm, they are really protecting your bones and cartilage and it's really important to balance it out if you do only cardio, and you don't actually give some effort on your muscles. You want to feel it on your bones sooner or later. And it's really important to make the muscles around your legs super firm and strong and make the fibers hold your bones you know? So yeah, this doesn't have to be done with strength training. Can you do that? I mean, can you achieve that through Pilates and yoga and things like that? Or do you are you like a firm believer that you can only gain muscle with weights? No, no, you can. Very hard workout you can definitely achieve it but you can also you know you can also do some squats and deadlifts and and you know in some lunges at home and achieved just with your bodyweight. You don't need a lot people can achieve a really really nice healthy, fit body with nothing. That's the thing I want to blow all that meet people can really have a healthy body with nothing just a body weight, and their their ambition. That's it. You know, it's great to do a great workout at home especially for girls. They don't usually don't want to grow, grow muscles. If they are really ambitious about it, you can achieve amazing workouts without nothing just you and your yoga mat in your living room set right

Amy: 29:33

it's I feel like it's just all about commitment and consistency and if you're just absolutely now

Unknown: 29:38

just consistency commitment and you know, believe that you can become a better version of yourself and we all can

Amy: 29:44

just so want to move into nutrition and just want to hear about kind of like what your diet is or what you recommends to your clients like because that's least for me getting older diet has become whereas before I didn't think about it as much diet has become such a bigger Do because they feel like everything you're eating, you can just feel it the next day or you know, it's just harder the older you get, like you eat one thing and you gain like two pounds, and you're like, what I just had like a piece of whatever you know, love to hear your thoughts.

Unknown: 30:14

Okay, so just a general thing about, about nutrition, I recommend to all my clients when they first wake up in the morning to drink at least three or four cups of water. If you have them a minute to boil your water, let them let them cool off for a second, squeeze a lemon into it, clear out your body start fresh today. That's amazing. That's a very simple hack that you should, everyone should execute to be honest with you. Also, you know, when you drink a lot of water in the morning, it makes you feel fuller, it helps you go to the toilet much easier because your body is full of fluid. Everything goes smoother, clears your body, the lemon is acid cleanse your your stomach's cleanse your system. And then you start on a fresh foundation. So this is something that I recommend to all my clients. Second of all, I divided them into two parts. So let's say you're awake for 16 hours a day, okay, on the first eight hours, I would recommend you to eat your carbs to eat your pasta to eat your rice to eat your bread. But on the eighth, the second eight hours, start eating all of that and take and consume protein, which is fish, can be lentils can be meat can be chicken, all of that, okay, and fresh fruit, fresh vegetables made in any way. Stir fried ovan, whatever you like. So, you know, I would suggest to eat your carbs during the first time or the first hours of the day. So you use these carbs as a fuel to function during the day. If you eat your carbs in the second part of the day, your body turn tends to store it and keep it inside, especially when you have heavy dinner, let's say 9pm. And then at midnight, you go to sleep, your body does not use these carbs to fuel as a fuel to function, but your body wants to store it. And then the following day, you're waking up uncomfortable, because you had like a very heavy meal. And you actually heavier than you were the previous day. Yeah, I don't believe I don't believe in not enjoying food. I love food. And I eat from every I eat everything to be honest with you. But you know, yesterday I had a heavy meal. So I will balance it out. And I will go for a run today. So I actually you know, I'm actually in a good place because it balances out. Also like you have to consider how much you burn compared to how much you consume. Because if you eat 1500 calories a day, it's just an example. And you just burn 1000 Of course you're gonna gain weight. It's very simple. But to be honest with you the the hack of dividing your data to and take the first half of the day, and eat carbs and eat everything you like, and let your body use these calories as a fuel. And then the second the second part of the day, just try to eat protein and vegetables and as much less carbs as you can. This is a this is a hack that works for everyone.

Amy: 33:21

Yes, easy to remember.

Unknown: 33:23

Yeah, I I feel like though, it's probably key for a lot of people. For me, especially I have slow digestion. So finding the carbs that I can eat in the first half of the day that aren't going to weigh me down or bloat me all day is crucial. So I typically end up doing the opposite of what you say because yeah, sure, like I want to have some some some bread or some rice or whatever. But if it's going to weigh me down and make me feel bloated and feel lousy, then it's going to make me drag all day. But I have found that if I start my day with a giant bowl of fruit, which is it's carbs, it's carbs and sugar, that it gives me great energy and I feel I feel really good. So and then I do find that I like naturally want to eat less heavier carbs later in the day. But yeah, I don't think like some people just you have to find what works for your body. Right? We are very individual and very different. But I think what you say is very true, but it's all about portions. If you sit and eat like a full bowl of rice Of course it's going to make you bloated and exhausted. But if it's going to be monitored and you're going to have I don't know portion of chicken with the sauce and then two or three spoons of of rice. I don't I'm not sure it will make you feel the same way. Okay, yeah.

Amy: 34:33

Yeah, I think portions is such a big I've been focused on that lately just like not because we just these these meals that especially Americans are used to the rough. It's just it's too much. You just need a little bit.

Unknown: 34:47

You don't need it. You really don't need it. We have as modern people as best in the Western world. We have big eyes, we consume way more than we need. You know. For me Like, you know, I never refill my plate. You know, I eat whatever I want. I enjoyed the food, but I never refilled the plate because I know that if I will refill my plate, afterwards, I'm going to feel heavy and tired. And I will not be able to carry on with my day. Lightly smoothly, you know, because it's going to be there, it's going to be stuck in my stomach, I'm going to be too full. Also, if you eat a lot right away, you feel tired, you want to sleep, so your brain is not functioning properly. So a little trick though, just to say, You know what, I'm not going to refill my plate. That's just a good, that's a good little trick. You know, I like

Amy: 35:39

and what about alcohol? Do you drink alcohol,

Unknown: 35:42

I don't drink during the week, it all I usually have one day in the weekend, not more than one day, because if I pour it when I need a recovery, a full recovery time after I drink alcohol, I drink one night, I would even hate the thought of drinking alcohol The following night. So I will find one day, one night in the weekend, you know, especially usually a day that they don't work the following day, because when I drink alcohol out there, I drink

Amy: 36:10

you're all in.

Unknown: 36:13

So I will find one night that I'm drinking and that will be the only day during the week that I actually drink alcohol. And every six months, I take full months of that I clear my body. I don't drink at all. And you know, it gives about it gives you the energy to to you know, to start again. Also, I you know, I just I think I haven't changed in terms of how I look for I think 10 years at least. And I'm the same way as well. I can say it I mean, I'm sorry if it sounds pretentious, but it's true. You you look at because it's amazing. Because I make sure that I drink and this is the easiest, simplest act so that I can you know, that I can recommend to everyone I drink between 20 to 30 glasses of water every day. You know, and this is like I think this is the only thing that really says definitely rejuvenating keeps your body young and healthy. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. So in regards to drinking, too, just to circle back really quickly. Like, we're not even saying, you know, lots of drinks every night. I mean, I know from personal experience, even just like one glass of wine during COVID I would have one glass of wine almost every night. But still, I was like trying to lose the COVID weight afterwards, but still having that one glass of wine and I couldn't lose a pound to save my life. And then finally when I was like, okay, you don't need this one glass every night, chill out. Then I started losing the COVID weight. You know, it's like I put on a few extra pounds. It started to come right off. It's like especially I feel like for women and as we get older, that like one little extra glass Samia block is gonna really screw you over. Right? You know, we? Yes, absolutely. We are very different. You know, each one of us have different needs. And you know, for me, I don't need a glass of wine. You know, I have like a pipe of CBD oil that I take to puffs and I feel great after it relaxes me. It ends my day in a proper way. It fits my brain. You know, it makes me more mellow. And yeah, so for you. It's a glass of wine. It's for me. It's the CBD. It's all

Amy: 38:22

sugar. I know. You don't tell me from that.

Unknown: 38:25

Tell us what that is. What brand are you using? No, really well. So this is the brand that I use. Now someone bought bought it for me. And it's blueberry and raspberry flavor. It tastes amazing. Not harsh. And it's nice and smooth. So yeah. Thanks.

Amy: 38:46

That was definitely a better way to relax. I yeah, definitely had to put in. So before we get into our rap session alone, I gotta hear something about Katie from her younger days, because you know, I hear starting, I hear I don't know if I should open it here. Let's be very careful to X rated but you know, like, we got to hear something juicy. Because let's be real. I didn't know Katie back then. And I have a feeling it was a good time. So

Unknown: 39:15

he and I were actually very close. Very, very close. We were kids in New York, just like trying to figure out our own identities. We did a lot of bad stuff together. Alongside with a lot of good stuff together. We had the time of our lives. Yeah. We had a time of our lives who made amazing people we all we were the most amazing who circle of friends. I have such I have goosebumps just talking about. We lost some amazing people along the way. Our friend dear friend Lisa left us earlier the day she was there she was supposed to but have only good memories from Katie and also also like every time that they seek it at every time I see Katie I feel like the time the time stopped and I see the same girl with the same smile and the same attitude and that's what I love about her nothing changed her nothing touched her. And I hope you feel the same way about Of course I do. Like why is so fast we have so many great memories. Know what go ahead we got some beauty hacks because I prepared my beauty bag.

Amy: 40:32

Oh yeah,

Unknown: 40:33

I love that but first Okay, so just really fast though. How can our listeners find you if they want to work with you? Um, well, they can reach out to me on Instagram and I can leave my phone number with you. I don't have my website right now. It's not an error to be honest with you. I'm working on a new website. So the best way is just go on Facebook on Instagram you'll find me right away alone dude. Right? Definitely. So I prefer I prefer my bag here. Oh my god, I love the shows. I can show you what I what I use you know after all, I'm gay. I'm gay and I'm a model so you know I need to have that tag with

Amy: 41:10

me. It's like a win win of products. I can't wait.

Unknown: 41:14

Let me find just like the the most crucial most important ones and I'm with you in a second okay. Yes, this is your favorite. Okay, beauty. So I must I must say that I don't believe in us is super expensive skincare. I believe in using skincare that have minimum ingredients in it. And each ingredient have like 20 or 30% of the actual product because I find it working way better than product that combining many different ingredients in it. And then it touches many many things but in the end of the day it does nothing. Okay. So I'm gonna start with this. This is company I just I just found out about it. The name of it is the inky list.

Amy: 41:57

Oh I know that brand. Yeah.

Unknown: 41:58

Oh nine caffeine. And this is actually incredible. It well it recommends to use it during the day but I put it at night as well. It is basically just like a caffeine, D puffiness. product. It works amazing. And it's super smooth. It has a lot of moisture in it and it's great for your eyes every time I put it I see the difference right away was the brand what was the first inky

Amy: 42:27

list in the

Unknown: 42:28

list? Nice. Okay. This is the collagen booster of the same brand which is amazing.

Amy: 42:36

Oh, is that like a serum or?

Unknown: 42:39

It's a serum? Okay, it's a very simple product it cost maybe $12 like nine nine in British pounds, but it's amazing. I go to sleep with it at night and I wake up and I literally feel that my skin is smoother

Amy: 42:51

Wow Yeah.

Unknown: 42:54

Now this one is if I want to glam up a little bit or I go out or before photo shoot. The name of the Charlotte Tilbury yeah Charlotte Tilbury and it makes your skin like marble literally.

Amy: 43:12

Is it is it a serum or is it like something you put on top of?

Unknown: 43:18

No no you put it first and then you put your lotion? Okay. Also this all the stuff that I showed you? This is like the foundation you put it first and then you put everything else? Yeah. Okay. No, this is my night. My nighttime mask that I use every like every other day to be honest. Say what it is I slipped at it at a clinic monstrous surge overnight mask of hydration. We are we are facing we are facing the winter now. It gives you a lot of motivation. It's amazing. Super good. Simple, you know cheap product. Nice. And then I have something else I wanted to show you just one moment. Sorry. So there is this brand. I don't know if you ever come to us but it goes face gym. Yes, Jim. I haven't heard of it. Yeah, they have stores. I have this. It looks like clips. Okay, when I put this at night, I take this and I literally massage all the muscles in my face. Yeah. Yeah, like this, my forehead, my cheekbone. All of that. I guess this is like $40 but it's actually very useful. And after you use it for a couple of weeks, you see the difference? For sure. Yeah, we love quassia Nice. Okay. And this is when I'm going out or I want to look super nice for an occasion but it's fashion week now. So I need to play I need to play the game. I find this the best makeup in town girls. This is the best stuff you can ever get. It's amazing. It absorbed into the skin. You cannot see that you wear anything. And it makes your skin look like

Amy: 44:58

marble literally. It It Cosmetics CC cream eight because

Unknown: 45:02

it cosmetics CC cream and then you need to choose your tone. I'm a medium, okay? But it's amazing. And it's also not expensive. It shouldn't cost more than $45.

Amy: 45:13

And it looks like that too, right? Yeah.

Unknown: 45:17

In one drop in one drop, you are covering your whole face you don't need a lot at all. So a tube like this, let's say that you use it twice or three times a week will last for five for four or five months. It's amazing. Honestly, this is the product that I recommend the most. Wow. So yeah, this round of applause

Amy: 45:39

those are all great. We're gonna put them on the show notes for all the listeners.

Unknown: 45:42

Amy's going to turn around and purchase all of them as soon as we can. Because that's a

Amy: 45:49

well since we're talking about products maybe I should give you guys my product review this week. Yeah, let's hear what is your review so my product is called the hot mess ice roller. Okay, I don't know if you can see it. I'm trying to get it close to the camera see? It's by the skinny confidential the skinny confidential is the brands by Lauren Bostick, who's like a fashion lifestyle blogger influencer. She has a podcast her husband Michael owns I think your media Podcast Network. And she this this was her first product that came out and so you put it in the freezer, or the fridge or nothing and it's just a roller and it feels like Yeah, I had it in the freezer overnight and I'm putting it on my skin. It feels amazing. If your face is puffy in the morning, like mine and I know Katie's is all the time like just from it feels so good and it really brings down the swelling in your face so I use it

Unknown: 46:43

look somewhere between like shaver and massager.

Amy: 46:46

Yeah, exactly. It's so it's it's $69 and they say it's a preventative skin tool that uses the power of cold therapy to contour Titan and Depop your skin. The hotness eyebrow is all aluminum roller gets cold fast and stays cold longer than those those are ice roller so I never knew what an ice roller is until this came out. But apparently it's like something that they have like that they sell but they're more like medical, but this one's like more fine. It has a little groove here so you can put your thumb there so it just makes it easy. Oh just kind of go like this and I just

Unknown: 47:21

haven't I need it.

Amy: 47:22

Oh good. I actually do it on my sometimes too. It's my neck is always sore. And I do it on there but it's fabulous. I love it. I do it morning and night so it really helps with the puffiness. So that's tinny, confidential hot mess eye roller and it's it's really fun and I think it just came out recently and I'm looking on their website they just won the 2021 Readers Choice Beauty Awards from InStyle so anyway, yeah good product after you get all your products off and you just do that feels good right in the morning after a night out of of the one day that you drink so

Unknown: 47:56

so now I don't want to skip out on our rap session. I definitely want to hear allowance five minute flow and his Yeah, I mean kind of told us how you maintain your nirvana. But alright, here's what we call our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower. Uber pinged you there five minutes away. What are you going to do to get out the door? Like looking amazing, like you'll always do in that time? Bing bang, boom. I mean, you're a guy so it's so much easier. But what are you okay, so I'll probably well if I'm, if I'm be honest, like in real life, I would probably put you'd sunglasses and a hat. Yeah, I would probably I would probably drink lots of water. Put my vitamin C serum on my face and you woke up? Nice. That's what which Vitamin

Amy: 48:42

C Serum do you use? Was it I use the

Unknown: 48:45

No, no, I don't have it here. Actually, I have it back in London. It's a basically simple. It's a simple clinic drops that I put on my face makes your skin look glowing and refresh. And you know, breasted. Yeah. Plenty guys are working they should be hiring you to do I honestly, I honestly don't. I mean, I change products all the time. Because I believe that your body will your face, get your skin get used to a product, it stop reacting to it. I try things all the time. And also because I'm an influencer, I get I receive a lot of products. So I get to try new things and to see what I like and what I don't like. I also I also must say that like I suffer from a slight rosacea that actually appears in the summer. So yeah, I have to consider that when I choose my product because some some products in really inflame it and make it worse. Yeah, that's I get that from time to time also, so I know exactly what you're saying. Okay, all right. And then how do you maintain your daily nirvana? I mean, you kind of said it earlier. You What do you do you exercise every day?

Amy: 49:51

What's your day so keeps you peaceful? Yeah, yeah,

Unknown: 49:53

I think I think I really like I'm meditating my brain when I run and when I work out And this is the things that I do for my nirvana. I'm usually, I'm usually very calm, I'm not a very stressed person, and I Let life be very politic to my thoughts and to my been, and I don't get too involved. You know, I can think about someone something or something that stresses me out. But I know how to keep it all and don't get too involved with it. And this is what keeps me calm and you know, relaxes me, basically. But, yeah, but basically sports and fitness. And yeah, this is my therapeutic time in my Nirvana time, like this morning that I went for 10 kilometres one, I'm not gonna lie to you. It was a bit hard today, but I've done it. And you know, after I finished it, I'm a whole new person. Yeah, for sure. So yeah. Sorry. It's very simple. Yeah. Yeah, we all kind of do similar things. And it doesn't make such a huge difference. Alright. So before we say goodbye, let's wrap with our mantra. And I thought, since I did this kind of lean D, I'm probably saying it wrong. Yoga this morning, that I would bring the Sanskrit mantra that we used. So nice today, because I had such an emotional moment with it that I almost I had tears rolling down my face at one point. And it's Sat Nam. And what that means is, this truth is my identity. And I mean, I'm just, you know, I'm going through a transitional phase in my life and trying to be really, really true to myself. And like you mentioned, you spoke to it earlier alone, like, knowing who you are and being true to who you are. How important that is. So such nom

Amy: 51:50

Satnaam All right, well, nice to meet you. Oh my

Unknown: 51:57

gosh, yeah, it was so good. Dave. It's so nice. To see you face you to be live soon. Yes. So nice to talking to you girls. And taking part in your show. And we'll speak soon.

Amy: 52:11

Yeah, absolutely. Thank

Unknown: 52:12

you, man. Bye. Bye bye.

Amy: 52:15

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 26 - Dr. Erin Cooper Returns; What We Can And Can’t Control (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 26.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Unknown: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a form of fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started.

Unknown: 0:37

Welcome Nirvana sisters, welcome back this week by absolute popular demand. We have the fabulous Dr. Aaron Cooper is our first reoccurring guest. We'd like to call her our resident psychologist. Her episode Don't should all over yourself with Dr. Aaron Cooper. It was episode eight in the first season did outstanding in case you didn't catch it. Dr. Cooper is a clinical psychologist. And she specializes in mood disorders, anxiety, stress, trauma, romantic relationships, and much much more. The last Convo we had with her was a lot of fun. So we are super excited to have her back. Hey, Coop. Hey guys.

Amy: 1:22

Thanks for back.

Unknown: 1:24

Yeah, welcome back. I should disclaimer because I called her coop. I've known her since I don't know how old we were. So we're really old friend. She's my best friend in the world. So to be more formal, I guess I'll call you Aaron or Dr. Cooper. I mean, actually, I do have some patients that call me Dr. Koop. That's great.

Amy: 1:43

I love that. Dr. Koop.

Unknown: 1:47

Dr. Koop All right. Well, let's kick it off with our weekly Nirvana Ami. What was yours this week?

Amy: 1:53

Well, I would say mine is probably very similar to many in the universe right now, which is my kids went back to school this week. So it was just a nice week because I think the kids were actually excited to go back because they were with my kids school. They were in school last year, but it still wasn't you know, ideal. And this year is still not ADL, they still have to wear masks, etc. But I think they were really excited my little ones starting middle school and my big ones starting high school. So big milestones for both of them. And they were excited. And it was bittersweet for me to see them kind of go on to to new schools and new experiences, but I was happy for them. So it was definitely a Nirvana to see them kind of get back into their element and in a routine. So that's me for the week. What about you, Katie?

Unknown: 2:42

That's really sweet. Well, yeah, I'd say mine is absolutely the same. I mean, Madeline started last week. And it was phenomenal. But for this week, it was received this morning, she, you know, was in school for literally two months last year. So she was so excited to go to school and to be with her friends and to socialize and do the whole bit, so I'm just so I'm happy for her. The child has been sheltered for a large fraction of her life, considering she's three. So it was a great day. What about you, Cooper, mine has been the weather in Cleveland. I don't know if either of you have ever been. So I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, for those who are listening. And I don't know if either of you have ever been here in early September. But the weather is perfection. It is clear blue sky sunshine, mid to upper 70s, no humidity. And it is just like there's the cool Christmas in the morning and then the warm sun in the afternoon. And it is just such a mood lifter, and so well deserved. I think for us Clevelanders because we all know that winter is coming. And in a few short months, it will be gray and snowy. But for now, man, it is hard to beat the weather that we're getting.

Amy: 3:49

I love that. I know we've had some pretty good weather here too. And it really does completely change your mood. You feel like you can do anything when the weather is good. And that fresh air is coming in, you feel like a different human. So that's great. You know,

Unknown: 4:01

most of our listeners already know who you are, Dr. Cooper, but give us a really quick little recap on your career. Tell us how long you've been practicing. You have your own private practice, etc. You just want to give us a little snippet insight for the new listener. Yeah, I've got a private practice that I started when my oldest daughter was born. So she's four and a half. So started it just about little over four years ago. I have a couple of clinicians that work with me as well. And the number of clinicians has waxed and waned over the years. And I've been in practice for about 10 years. You know, I've been in training. I mean, I was in school for 10 years and then there's postdoc training and so I've been doing this a long time and yeah, moving forward, the business is probably not going to grow too much. I've had to rein things in and recognize like how many buckets my energy is getting poured into and and Right now at this time in my children's lives, it's looking like, the buckets are all there. I can't add any more buckets. So just working, I'm working on my own and terms of being satisfied with where things are currently and accepting that, you know, I can't continue to expand and maybe the way that my more ambitious self would like to, because of other responsibilities that I have

Amy: 5:24

failure on that one, I think a lot of us struggle with that. So it's good that you're able to recognize your, your limits, it's hard to do.

Unknown: 5:32

Yeah, for sure. Only so many hours in the day, I feel like that kind of puts us a little bit into some questions that I've been wanting to ask you about, because we thought it would be a good episode to talk about two major topics, control and boundaries. And I think for a lot of people right now, I'm so curious what you're seeing with your patients, because I imagine control is a massive issue for people in the world right now, just because of everything that's going on and still being like, controlled by the government and with COVID. And, and how that can trickle down into every aspect of your life. And he's setting boundaries, like you said, I feel like you just set a boundary for yourself, but for your own health, knowing exactly what you need and how smart it has to do that and to be able to get there. So what are you seeing in regards to your patients that are struggling a lot right now with let's let's start with control. What's a common theme right now that you're that you're seeing? Yeah, you touched on it. It's the the state of the world that we're living in, if you take a step back, and watch too much of the news, and read too many headlines and spend too much time on social media, we are experiencing a lot of cultural, global traumas. And many people are feeling re traumatized by the headlines on a daily or hourly basis. And in response to the anxiety within us that this stuff creates, we often seek to control everything. And our anxiety is at an all time high. And the more that we feel that we can control in our environment, the more at ease, we feel like I have controlled everything, nothing can go wrong, everything will be fine. And it's really important to recognize that there's actually very little that we can control and many of these situations COVID, for instance, somewhat I've had several patients talking about having family weddings coming up and really being worried about how to manage that. And should they go and should they still be having this event, etcetera, etcetera. And I've encouraged people to think about what are the things that you can control based on the information that we have to date, because we can only operate based on the information that we have right now. And so recognizing that if I'm going to throw a wedding for my child, who, Whose wedding has been, you know, pushed back for the past 18 months, because of this pandemic, they really want to have it and they're looking forward to it. Well, what can you can control, you can control the location, whether it's indoor or outdoor, you can control the number of people, whether they come from multiple households, or limited number of households, you can control their vaccination status, you can control whether people wear masks or don't wear masks. And in thinking through, like, what are the things that I have a choice in? And what are the things I don't have a choice in? What are the things that I'm not in charge of. So I had a conversation with a patient recently that to encourage them to recognize that if, if an event is being held, they are not in charge of someone else's decision to come. That ultimately everyone is making the decisions that they feel best to make, to to navigate this pandemic, or really any situation in line with their value system. And we are not in control of other people's choices. And that tends to be a really hard one. For a lot of people to wrap their head around and to accept I think intellectually, we get it like of course, I'm not in charge about other people's other people's choices. But emotionally we feel so invested in other people's choices. And it's very difficult to take a step back and recognize that that's not my monkeys, not my circus. I can't control those people and their choices. Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because there's some aspects that I always wonder like, so there's a level of control that's healthy, and then there's a level of control that's unhealthy and I feel like you just gave us like you just delineated that line, like what you can control yourself is healthy and you can give yourself permission to do that. You just can't control other people. And I mean, speaking as a wife as a mother, sometimes I I really have to remind myself of that, that I cannot control my husband or my children no matter how hard I try.

Amy: 9:50

My best we can I didn't know that. Yes, we can tell us how to do that.

Unknown: 9:58

And best you can influence To the people in your life to to potentially make different choices. So you can't control whether or not your husband decides to put his dirty laundry in the hamper, or on the ground in front of the hamper, right? Because like, at the end of it, he is an adult person. And he's going to make the choice when he takes off his clothes, where they're going to go, you can influence the choice that he makes by communicating to him, how that makes you feel when you see his laundry on the ground, right? Someone's obviously picking that up at some point. That's not just living there indefinitely. So if it's not you, who do you think it might be? And how do you think that might make me feel to continually be picking up clothes from an adult that I'm living with, when there's already these other little people I'm living with, I'm also picking up after. And so again, it's not that I can control what my partner is going to do, or anyone in my life can't control their choices, but I can hope to influence them.

Amy: 11:00

Let me ask you a question about this. And this is just more of a way to say something like that to someone. I think a lot of people struggle with communication in their relationships in their marriage. And what do you think is the best way to communicate feedback, whether it's to your children, to your husband, to your friend, using that example, with the laundry, right? Like, I think, especially with husband, husbands and wife, they get in this pattern of constantly nagging me or someone is passive aggressive, because they're not doing XYZ, but the other person doesn't know and like, what is the most positive way to say, hey, when you do this, this bothers me. Because I think many times people deal with feedback very differently. And they'll, they'll be defensive, or I don't know, I'm just I always like good phrases to start with, like, I'll say to, you know, one of my kids, for example, Hey, let me give you feedback about something you did the other day XYZ. Sometimes when they do that, they, you know, will automatically go on the defense, sometimes I will give them a compliment, and then give them you know, the feedback within the compliment. But do you have any good recommendations on how to position constructive criticism?

Unknown: 12:06

Well, first, before I forget this thought, I don't love the freezing of can I give you feedback?

Amy: 12:14

It's like I use that I use that at work, which is not the right course you do my home? Like,

Unknown: 12:19

of course you do. And it sounds very much like, my boss has just walked into my office to give me feedback. And we all know that's conversation that's not going to go great. Right? Like no one's boss is like, I would like to give you some feedback about that. You were awesome. So I'm not surprised that your kids are reacting defensively, right off the bat, you say can I give you for my husband? Yeah. Well, your husband? Yeah. Because it also the way that the phrasing of it sets up this like power differential of, and it's, it's there with your children, we do have more power than our children, obviously. But with our partner that really shouldn't be there. And to set up a conversation I'd like to give you some feedback is setting the stage for I am your superior, I am above you in some way. And you've done bad. So I would, I would leave that freezing at home.

Amy: 13:13

Yeah, and I am sorry to interrupt one of the one of the things that I always say to my husband and my kids is it's not what you say it's the way that you say it, because they will often say things or my husband will often say things that aren't meant that they come out in a certain way that you're immediately defensive. So yes, keep going. I

Unknown: 13:31

think it's both. It's also what you say and the way that you say it. So timing is really important. When we want to have a meaningful conversation with anyone in our life. Oftentimes, people when they're feeling really intensely and passionately about something, they want to have that conversation like I feel this intense emotion, this emotion is uncomfortable. I gotta, I have to get this off my chest. And we're going to have this conversation right now. But we need to be mindful of what situations need to be in place in order for us to have the best chance of our partner, child, coworker, friend, etc. hearing us and hearing what we're trying to say and having the space and the time to react to it in a meaningful way. So first thing in the morning, not a great time for most people right before bed. Not a great time for most people. I've so many couples that I work with, where they save heavy conversations for like as they're crawling into bed. Like that's it yeah, yeah. I'm like, Dude, I am trying to wind down not now. Right, like I don't need to wind up I don't I'm my brain was turned off. So So you know, first thing in the morning, right? Right before bed, right before meal. I mean, you know, like being hangry that's a thing. And if I'm hungry, I am not paying attention to what you're saying to me. I'm paying attention to the food that I want to get in my belly. You know if some ones on their way out from work. Or if someone has just walked in the door from work, and you're like, hey, here's all these things that I need to tell you. It's like, oh, timeout, like, Give me three seconds to shift my brain from one task to the next. So I actually am a big fan of planning, standing meetings to have these kinds of conversations, it requires a lot of diligence on your end in terms of managing your own emotional response throughout the week, and sort of saving it holding it for them. You can do that with your spouse, you can do that with coworkers, you can do that with your children. Hey, let's have a check in how are we doing? How are you feeling? Is there anything that's come up this past week, so timing is super, super important. And then being both mindful of me, as you said, sort of your tone, but then also the words that you say, and I think that when we, when everyone is doing that, then things are gonna go the most smooth. However, we need to recognize that we're all human beings. And none of us do this perfectly. I mean, I, I teach people how to do this on a daily basis. And I assure you, I do not do this perfectly. So we do have to just allow for some grace, that that maybe our partner is, is coming at me in a way that feels a little intense, fine, feel like I'm being attacked. But maybe it's because they whatever it is, that they are bringing to my attention is beyond their ability to manage their own emotional response in the time that they are doing the best that they can with what they've got in that given moment. And maybe in that given moment, they're coming off a little intense. And so I have a couple of options here. I encourage couples to develop like a code word of, you know, like, banana, when someone's getting really intense, like something silly to sort of, like, let them know, like, Hey, you're doing that thing that you do were like, really excited, and kind of makes me feel defensive. So, you know, but then also, perhaps most importantly, paying attention to the words and the content of what our partner is saying. And trusting that they're saying what they mean. And I think that that is often a really challenging thing we're trying to read between the lines, we're interpreting tone, etcetera, etcetera. And I think that it can be really helpful for couples, or parents and children or friends or coworkers to simply trust that the person you have this relationship with, is saying what they mean, and listen to the content of, of what they're saying, instead of assuming all of this background intention, and assuming the feeling behind it, because we don't actually know until they tell us none of us are mind reader's, I always try when I am, you know, if there's like a big thing that I need to discuss with Adam or my kids or something I always try to start with like, this is coming from love. You know, like, I might not always say those exact words, but I try to like, give them that tone. But like, again, this is when I have been managing it. This is not just like on a random Wednesday, when something happens, and I fly off the cuff, which which happens, which, you know, kind of like circles back to the control thing. Like, I definitely want to like snap a little more quickly. And, you know, if the kids are doing something I don't want them to do instead of letting like, they might not be hurting anything. They're not hurting anyone. They're not necessarily like ripping my house apart. But maybe it's like, it's too noisy right now, or it's just, it's more than I can take. So I try to get them to stop. I try to control them in that moment. And I'm personally trying to work on like, I don't need to control that, you know, like, at what point do you say to yourself, let your child be your child, let them do what they're going to do. Like, you know, what, what lines do you use within parenting? Do you think it's time to reel in that control? I think that natural consequences are a really good thing to rely on. So if my children are doing something that is going to get them injured, it's my job as their parent to intervene, right? Like, we would never watch our child run into the front yard and head for the street with a car coming be like that. She's gonna learn eventually. Right? Like, That's not. That's not how that works. That's a good way to get your kids taken away. But if if my kids are and this just happened last night, if my kids are simultaneously banging a toy hammer on their toy, and the other ones playing on the toy piano as loud as they possibly can, I mean, they're not hurting anything. Are they driving me a little insane? Yeah, more than a little insane. But do I need to intervene and stop and say, Oh, no, let's go and read a book. Well, maybe in that moment, that's what their little bodies need. Or if they're older kids, maybe that's what you know, maybe they're riding bikes with their friends and, you know, playing video games or whatever, that actually should be limited. But you know, maybe they're playing guitar in the garage, whatever it is. Maybe that's what their bodies and their minds need at that given time, even though it's clashing with what I need. And so in that moment, you know, well, so we recognize what can I control? Well, I can attempt to control my children. It's probably not gonna go well. I mean, granted, my kids are toddlers, so it's really not gonna go well. But, I mean, I would argue even with older kids not gonna go that well, even if they even if they acquiesce to what I want them to do, they're not going to love me for shifting them off the thing that they prefer to be doing, right. So what can I do in that moment when my kids are making all this noise and I'm overstimulated, and I need them to stop? Well, instead of controlling them, because they're not hurting themselves or anybody else. I can remove myself from the room, I can remove myself from the situation. Within reason, I can't leave the house and go to the store and be like, alright, toddlers, good luck. But I can, you know, close the baby gate, and go into the bathroom and shut the door and just sit for a minute. So in the situation that you were describing, Katie, I would think about not how do you control them to make them do what what you want the girls to be doing in that given moment? But think about what do you need in that given moment, to bring your anxiety back down, to feel less overstimulated, and to be able to come to them with love and kindness? Yeah, that's such great advice, as good as

Amy: 21:19

my husband needs to listen to this. Because as Katie knows, he likes quiet. And so whenever the kids are loud, he can't it's he gets very overwhelmed. So yeah, good. Little tip. And then just before we continue on this conversation, just going back to the whole, I'm using the word feedback, because I don't know another word. We want to use USSR say me, I know what is the what is the best way to approach it. I do like this idea of like having a weekly kind of conversation or something. When is the best time to do that? And know, we talked about the times where it's not good, but like, when is it that is it? Is it good to do that on a weekend? Is it good to do like, after dinner? Like when's the best time to do that? And then how do you sort of start the conversation in a positive way, a phrase you could use in terms

Unknown: 22:04

of when you do it, it depends on the relationship and what works best for that relationship. So some, some people, mostly couples will institute this kind of thing. Gottman calls this the State of the Union visit, you know, what's the state of our union. So for some couples that I've that I work with, weekends, or it, you know, it's like Sunday morning, over coffee, kids are playing independently, like we're both kind of chill, etc. For other couples is like, I don't want to think about that kind of stuff on the weekend. Like, let's just knock this out after the kids go to bed on a Wednesday night. So it really just depends on what works for the two of you, for some people first thing in the morning can be a perfectly fine time to have any kind of serious conversation. It just is not for most and so it's those aren't times Amy that are like just strictly off limits don't do these are their thing times to be mindful of that many people are not open to having a conversation. That doesn't mean that. Yeah, so just respecting that, you know, respecting that, that people have certain boundaries, and have certain aspects of themselves that are not, are not going to permit them to have an early morning or late night conversation. But if you and your husband are people who can have that conversation, right before bed, go for it, in terms of starting a conversation off positively, I wouldn't put it honestly wouldn't put a ton of pressure on yourself to come up with this, like, perfect appropriate for, you know, a piece of canvas type quote of like, let me lead into this positively. Because if you're having a meeting to talk about these things, the expectation is we're both coming together to have a conversation about what's going on in our marriage. And so the intention of this business meeting has already been set. So I don't know that you even need to have something pre made, I think you can just sit down and say like, you know, how's

Amy: 24:00

the intention is already there? It's not a surprise.

Unknown: 24:04

Exactly. Whereas when it is a surprise, right? You have to know. Yeah, like and my husband's like, Hey, we got to talk about, you know, what our weekend plans are? And I'm like, you're not? Yeah, that is actually, you know, he could tell you. So

Amy: 24:24

let me ask you a question based on your experience with, you know, talking to a million people about this, this idea of like a weekly discussion, or weekly touch base or State of the Union, are most husbands into that or wives because I could see some people being like, I'm not doing that.

Unknown: 24:41

There's definitely a lot of people who are like, I'm not doing that. And I've had both partners tell me like, I'm not doing that. For some couples, they will do it for a couple of months. And they're like, you know, I think that we're in a good groove. Now that's really helped us work out some kinks. And they use it as long as they need to, and then they move on. And I've had other couples were like, you know, this is a good game changer for us. This has cleared up so much tension, so much miscommunication because I mean, I go so far I have people take notes, you know, and I have them like switch off, like who's taking notes so that one person doesn't become the secretary. It's like, you know, switch off taking notes have an agenda, like treat it like a proper meeting, and put it on the family schedule, and it doesn't get moved. And so some people are like, this is a game changer. We're doing this until we die. And then other people will do it for a week or two. Like many things in life, it's hard to become a habit, it falls off. And then they will say we've had all these fights lately, like Dr. Cooper, we haven't been doing those meetings, we need to get back to those meetings. So you know, they can be very helpful. There certainly are some couples are, they're not a fix for everything. But they can help open the lines of communication by giving both partners an opportunity to look forward to plan and think about how they want to communicate with their partner what they need to communicate with their partner, and have a designated time for it instead of this. How am I going to catch your attention long enough in between Joey's soccer practice and Sally's clarinet rehearsal and school and work? And when are we going to have this conversation, it gives both both parties something to look forward to.

Amy: 26:15

Yeah, I love that. It actually reminds me of when my kids were smaller, well, like pre pandemic when the kids were younger. And I felt like I wasn't spending because I was working so much. I felt like I wasn't spending enough time with them. And I felt like my kids weren't like talking to me as much. And I remember my pediatrician was like, You should do a monthly, I forget what you call it, like a monthly meeting, like a monthly fun day or whatever, where everyone leaves their electronics at home and you go do an activity, whether it's hiking, or biking, or walking, or whatever it is, she goes to naps when you communicate with your kids. And we started doing that we had it on the calendar every month, and it was great. And it really did help get everyone closer. So it's sort of the same thing just manifested a different way. Well, I'm

Unknown: 26:53

particular, it can be really beneficial to try to talk over an activity like playing cards or going for a walk. Because it's harder for kids. You know, there's they don't know how they're feeling right? So it's it's hard for them to sit down and look mom and dad in the eye. You know, I feel anxious because I don't know if I'm gonna get a good grade in English or not like is that that's some kids can do that. Man, I

Amy: 27:17

actually find that I've told my husband that a lot like talk to Jackson, our older one when he's playing video games, like play a video game with him, because he'll just naturally talk to you about things. And anytime we do that with our kids, they always are, you know, talking or telling us things without actually having like a serious conversation, but they just mentioned things and then you talk about it.

Unknown: 27:36

It's the whole like meeting thing you were just completely reminding me of when Adam and I first started dating We were together for as you guys know, six years before we got married, we had check ins, these occasional check ins, because I knew that he was like, not ready to settle down. And he was having a hard time with the idea of being monogamous and everything. So like we decided we would occasionally check and like so still feeling this, like still into it. And it worked. And it kept us on track. And you know if there was ever a time where he was like, yeah, like, alright, so maybe we take little space apart from each other for a little while. You know? And same with me. Yeah, marriages is no different. Katie, every day in a marriage every day, we wake up and we choose to remain married. So right, yeah, so so true, you know, keeping these check ins while we're married, marriages end. And so every day that we were married, we are waking up and choosing to remain in this marriage. And so having these check ins can be very beneficial. Yeah, true. I

Amy: 28:36

also have a strategy that I've been using lately. And I want to know what you think of this. Dr. Koop. So I started, I don't even know if my husband, I don't think my husband knows this. But I have notes in my phone. And when I get annoyed at something he does, I just write it down. Because it helps me process it instead of being annoyed with him. Or being like, I have to talk about this, I literally will just write something down, almost like I'm talking to myself, but I write it in my notes. And then I don't even think about it anymore. And sometimes I revisit it and I'll look at it and be like, Yeah, that wasn't that big of a deal. Or I'll look at I'll be like, Oh, I should really talk about this. Of course, I haven't really done anything with the notes yet. I think the notes would probably be good to bring to a weekly check in. But I think it's also good because sometimes depending on, you know, your hormones, what time of the month, and he could get more annoyed than usual. And I I find it helpful for me to write it down because it helps me to reflect and look back. Sometimes I'm exaggerating. And sometimes the points are valid, whether I addressed them or not. I probably should because sometimes I just forget about it after I write it. But what do you think of that idea?

Unknown: 29:40

So I love that. It's essentially a journaling. Yeah, your journaling as opposed to you know, longhand? It's great. I think you should continue doing that. I recommend that a lot of people most people could probably benefit from doing that what you do with it? Well, the answer to what to do with it is that you don't always have to do something with it. So when you go back and you read it and you go Hmm, like not that big a deal. That's a great example of how in the moment, our emotions can feel so overwhelming and so accurate and so intense. But then if we give it a day or two, or even a couple of hours, like that was really not that, like, I don't care. And I think that, what's nice about that exercise for you is that without you even realizing it, it's highlighting the fact that we don't have to talk about everything that our partner does, or our children do, or our friends do. That annoys us. And if we did, most of us would not have very many positive relationships. Like it, no one wants to hear constantly, all the ways that they are failing to be the ideal role in your life. And so, you know, especially in our marriages, because my goodness, there's, there's plenty of fodder there. We really shouldn't. And I'm not a big fan of the word should, as you guys know, that's a rare exception. We I mean, we really don't benefit from talking about every little thing that our partner does that irks or noise or upsets us, right. But what you can do when you go back and review those notes is if you see themes emerging, like oh, like, oh, man, this thing that has been like, really, under my skin has been under my skin for 18 months. Yeah, okay. Maybe it's time that we have a conversation about a good point, an emerging theme. Yeah. Because I actually do that too. I've written down things that that I'm does it irritate the crap out of me so that I could talk to them about right, so

Amy: 31:31

then you're not talking about specific situations, but you're saying like these, this keeps coming up in various ways.

Unknown: 31:37

One, having specific examples is still important. But it doesn't have to be like this. One thing happened one time, and now we need to have this big, long discussion about it. Because a lot of partners are gonna like, what sorry that I was an imperfect human that day III, right, like, whereas if you can say like, Hey, I've been keeping some notes and journaling. And I was looking back through it the other day, and I realized that this thing that you did on Saturday is pretty similar to what you've been doing for the past, you know, month, the past 12 months, the past two years. And every time it upsets me, and it's still upsetting me. And I would like to figure out a way that we could work through this and help you understand how this impacts me and how it makes me feel right, because still tying back to what you initially said a few moments ago about giving grace, I think that's like a common thread in our discussion today is the importance of giving grace to those around us. Because, you know, we write these things down. If we brought up every single thing all the time, then we would probably be nowhere fast. Right? Things would exactly relationships would not be hanging out. So So yeah, yeah, I like that. It's a good, that's a good one to

Amy: 32:51

remember. And I do like, the idea, which I guess I sort of inherently know. But to make sure that you're talking about it when the time is right. Because that's I think it's really important for the kids because I think both my husband I both have a habit of like wanting to address something right away. But you always know like, when a top I mean, not that I've toddlers but it's like that idea when you have a toddler screaming, it's not the time to try to do it. You know, you got to wait till the kid has come. And I think for for relationships, the same thing, like my husband, as Katie knows is like the worst sleeper in the universe. So when he hasn't had a good night's sleep, it's like, forget it. I'm not talking to him all day, right? I have to wait until he's like refreshed, not hungry, whatever to like, have a conversation that's productive. Otherwise, forget about it.

Unknown: 33:35

Yeah, as I would be no. Right, exactly. Well, I think we're gonna have to save boundaries for the next time you come back, because we just crushed it on control in relationship. And now we have so many

Amy: 33:47

so many questions. And I'm sure these are all common, right? Is this like what everybody asks you? It's like the same thing, right? Everyone kind of has the same challenges I would imagine.

Unknown: 33:57

Yes, all not all, many humans have some of the same human challenges. So these are nothing nothing that we've talked about today is something that I haven't talked about with patients before. And in really, at this point, it's it's pretty rare that someone brings something where I'm just like, wow, I'm, I am stumped. I've no one I've ever talked to has ever had this issue in any way, shape, or form. Because, you know, human beings are inherently imperfect and human beings struggle with being human beings.

Amy: 34:27

I think to the the pandemic has made this better and worse, because I think, like, I am home so much more than I ever have been, which I love and I feel like my relationships are better because of that. But since you're spending so much time with your family, you're also identifying things are getting annoyed with things easier because you're just around more and everyone's around each other more. So it's a catch 22

Unknown: 34:50

Well, um, because then everyone's individual wants and needs are bumping up against each other more often. Whereas when we have these sort of delineated like you go to school, you go to your office, et cetera, we have our spaces where, like, within that context, my wants and needs are being managed for eight hours of the day or six hours of the day or what have you. But when everyone is at home for longer and longer periods of times, all of my wants and needs all my partner's wants and needs, all my children's wants and needs. They're all just like, you know. So like, what are those cars, those children's cars were crashing together, trying to get what you want. Out of this same context, which is the health

Amy: 35:41

there's an article that will post I haven't read it yet, my friend sent it to me last night, just talking about the pandemic and the way that people are feeling on the New York Times, it's called, there's a name for the black, you're feeling it's called languishing. And there's a whole article about it, you can access it. So she's gonna send it to me, but was just an interesting idea. Because I think a lot of people are in this last state at this point of the pandemic, with all of the new things coming out. And all these, like you were saying in the beginning of the show, the news and all of these new variants, and it's just very anxiety producing and kind of making people feel just

Unknown: 36:16

right. Yeah, I think there's also a sense of, of loss and grief that many people are experiencing, like, Katie, you were saying, with Rhys, you know, she only got two months of school last year, she's been so isolated. You know, I shared last time, my daughter, my four and a half year old has a number of complex medical needs. And to say that my two children have been isolette. I mean, she's in school right now only by thank goodness, the school board mandating masks, which allows it to be somewhat safe for her. But I mean, we don't go anywhere other than the zoo. And because the zoo is outdoors, my children don't go on playdates, they don't go to the playground, if you think about how much time has been lost in this pandemic, and then we continue to hear about more and more variants, etc, etc. The sense of loss just kind of stretches and stretches like, oh, like we only thought it was going to be a short period of time. And now it's like how much more time and freedom of being able to live our lives in the way that we want to safely without endangering the lives of others? How much more loss are we going to endure? And I think that's what is sort of underlying the way a lot of people are feeling is

Amy: 37:30

right, and it's our control. And that's the hard part

Unknown: 37:33

out of our control. So what can I control? Well, I can't control the fact that there's an awful lot of people that don't believe COVID is a thing or that it's a serious thing. But I can control the ways that I keep my daughter safe. And I can do that by communicating with her physicians and her school and making sure that she's masked and practice wearing a mask. And I can control the choices that I make and getting vaccinated and wearing a mask wherever I go, and who we interact with and how long we interact with them for and what context. Those are the things inside of my control. Because if I get bogged down with things that are outside of my control, I mean, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. Yeah, isn't that true? Well, that's all excellent, excellent advice. And thank you very much for it, because I think it's like such a pivotal point again. And last time when we had you on we were literally talking about the home stretch of COVID. And guess what? It was home stretch. So then, but what I think we should do now, and we did it last time, but I'm just curious if anything's changed up as our rap session, you want to stick around for it. We have a couple of the fun questions for you. Sure. Okay. All right. So what's one of your favorite wellness and beauty hacks now mine at this point is avoiding added sugar, gluten and dairy. I spent the majority of my adult life very interested invested and in love with those three food groups, air quotes, right sugars. But for me it was and cutting those out of my life. I mean, it's just been a game changer. For me. I think it is improved my health across the board. And I couldn't be more thankful for for the fact that I made that choice and have stuck with it because now I can't imagine going back nice and it helps with your autoimmunity. Also, because it helps with my it's I mean, it greatly manages my autoimmune disease, but also, you know, it helps manage just the way that my skin looks the way that my body looks the way that my clothes fit the functioning of my daughter. I'm sure Yeah, right. I'm not nearly as emotionally tied to sweets and desserts. And I mean, I used to not be able to walk past like in grad school, there'd be like free doughnuts for a talk. I mean, I just I could not walk past it without having to have them not just one too now. I mean, I walk past desserts or you know, look at the dessert menu. It's like no, none of this is going to make me feel as good as I feel without it. So no thanks for yeah Yeah, that's

Amy: 40:00

great. Same question, maybe your answer will be different. You just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you that they're five minutes away. What is your quick beauty routine? What do you put on? What are your go to Holy Grails to get out of the house and in the car on time, but I will switch it because last time we just said, it could be whenever like, you're going out. But let's say you're going to work and you happen to be taking over that day, you only have five minutes to get ready. How does it change for you?

Unknown: 40:26

Nice reoccurring guest twist. So actually, I will say that the first time I was here, you guys hadn't done this yet. I remember, I remember listening and being like, Oh, that's a new question. And so the reality is, if this was an Uber, if I'm taking an Uber, it's because I'm going someplace nice. Like it's a special occasion. Ring. Yeah. And the reality is, is I'm going to make the Uber wait. Right writing,

Amy: 40:56

no one has said that one.

Unknown: 40:58

I mean, that's my, that's my boundary. Like, if it's a special occasion, I'm taking an Uber, I'm gonna, I'll take the low rating on the chin, I'll pay whatever fee but I'm gonna make them wait because I want to feel my best on a night out and I want to look my best

Amy: 41:14

way to get ready in five minutes, I'm not going to

Unknown: 41:17

just not going to happen. Especially if I'm fresh out of the shower, no way. However, if it's work, right, like there's, you know, there's a hard stop or a hard start for that, right, I have a patient scheduled, I gotta get to work. In that case, I'm going to attempt to pull my short hair back, but I'm gonna throw my foundation inside my mix it with my moisturizer, put it on, you're going to use one of my eyebrow pencils that are faster. So I can just like quickly fill in my brows. And then I'm going to go with a bold lip. And I'm going to use my Maybelline LashBlast mascara and the orange tube. Oh, because I have been relying on Old Faithful since it came out. And I've tried all the more expensive brands and have yet to find anything that I liked nearly as much love it. It's a good one. All right. So how are you maintaining your daily Nirvana these days? Last time, I think he told us just movement and getting on the treadmill and all that same stuff for what are you up to? Some of the same stuff. But I'm also reminding myself that while this particular moment might be difficult, it can always be worse. So helping reframe things that you know, like the storm eventually passes. And and even though this is challenging, it could be worse for me and it is worse for other people. And so having such a shift in my mindset allows me to bring some more gratitude into my heart and being more thankful that okay, this, this is bad. And this is hard. And this is challenging, but it's not as bad as it could be. Yeah, that's really good. Like made me tear up a little bit because I kind of needed to hear that right now. So yeah, that's a great one. I like that a little perspective shift is always important. Yeah, amazing. All right. Well, do you have time to stick around for the product review on the mantra, or do you need to head out? Sure, sure. Okay. Amy, do you have a product? I

Amy: 43:08

really don't and I forgot to ask you. So we can, we can skip on that this week or I

Unknown: 43:18

just discovered, this tart has a new it's called lippy lingerie out. It's like a pencil slash lipstick. And they have a lot of really beautiful colors. I'm kind of obsessed with the way that it goes on, and how it feels throughout the day. I'm frequently on Zoom calls with patience. And you know, I like a good bold lip.

Amy: 43:41

Is that what you're wearing now?

Unknown: 43:43

It is what I'm wearing. Yeah, it's

Amy: 43:44

gonna tell you that before that. I love your lips. Yeah,

Unknown: 43:47

this is the shameless color. But it's like a pencil, which initially I didn't. Yeah, I didn't initially love the pencil part, but it helps me apply it exactly where I want it. I get a nice crisp line. And it's got kind of a matte look to it, but it's feels very moisturizing. Unlike the other matte lipsticks. I've tried. I'm kind of obsessed with

Amy: 44:08

it. Like a liner and a lipstick together. It looks like no one really. Yeah.

Unknown: 44:13

I mean, it's like a lipstick that they shaped into a giant toddler crayon.

Amy: 44:17

I guess it looks like

Unknown: 44:19

what you get. I didn't love that part. But the colors are gorgeous. And the way that it goes on and stays on. It doesn't dry out. It doesn't get cracked. It doesn't it's not gross. At the end of the day. I just I really like it.

Amy: 44:31

And it's by far You said it's my target. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, that's a good one. Probably get

Unknown: 44:37

it like Sephora, Amazon, any of those places, right? Yeah. And actually, I think even like Target is carrying Ulta and Ulta carries talks. Right? That's right, and give them target now.

Amy: 44:48

No, I love that. Target. I saw that recently. It's really fun. All right, well, that's an awesome one. We always have a good a good lippie reco and I love the name too.

Unknown: 44:56

Thank you for that review. That was fantastic. And let's go ahead and wrap with our Montra this one's a little lengthy, but I saw it and I just loved it. I think you guys will love it too. So I don't know if it's necessarily a mantra, but we'll see. We'll see what you guys think of it. Be like a tree. stay grounded, connect with your roots, turn over a new leaf bend before you break. Enjoy your unique natural beauty and keep growing. Oh, I love Michelle's love, because that's a mantra. That's really good.

Amy: 45:27

That's, that's great. And that's a good perspective shift like you were just talking about. So with that, thank you, Dr. Koop for being on the show. Again, as our resident. This has been so helpful. I feel like I've been through a session and now I feel very armed with good tools. So I hope our listeners will too. I'm sure they will. And I'm sure they'll want you to come back. So thank you so much for being on Nirvana sisters, and for continuing to inspire us and give us all this amazing insight.

Unknown: 45:57

My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you.

Amy: 46:00

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 24 - Finding Your Flexibility With Yoga Goddess Amina Taha (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 24 Finding Your Flexibility With Yoga Goddess Amina Taha.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Welcome to Nirvana sisters, Nirvana sisters family. I am so excited that we are talking with Amina Taha today, straight from Egypt and we're so excited to have her on the podcast. She's a friend of mine that I met a few years ago. She's an amazing human being and I'm so excited to hear everything that she has to tell us about her journey to yoga. So Amina found yoga at the age of 27. During the start of her career as a fashion designer, she was immediately drawn to yoga and how it taught her about her body and herself. Without further ado, I will say hello to Amina, how are you? Amina?

Amina 1:13

Hi, Amy, thank you so much for having me.

Amy 1:15

Thank you so much for joining us. And thanks for your time. I know you're in Egypt, and it's like, what time is it there? It's probably like eight hours ahead.

Amina 1:22

It's 630 right now. So like 36 hours?

Amy 1:26

Yeah, six hours. Okay. Amazing. So, we always start our show Amina with a weekly nirvana. And it's really just a way to talk about what was what brought us joy this week, big or small, just something that brought us a little bit of sunshine. So I'll hand it to Katie to do her weekly Nirvana first.

Katie 1:47

Alright, well, Thanks, Amy. Hi, Amina. It's so great to finally meet you. We've been talking about this for a long time. So excited to be here. So my weekly Nirvana I think honestly is about to happen. Aside from how fabulous This is, as soon as we sign off, I'm going to go have a special day with my mom and my two girls where we were getting ready to move out of the state. So it's been kind of crazy and hectic around here. So we're going to go do many petits and go shopping and just have a fun little girl's day. So I'm excited for that. One, yeah, it'd be fun. What about you, Amy?

Amy 2:17

Well, I'm probably about to have mine too, because my boys Jackson and Jules who are 14 and 11. For those who are new listeners have been at summer camp all summer for seven weeks. And they didn't have a visiting day this year, obviously, because of the pandemic. So we're going to pick them up in like an hour. So I'm so excited to see them. So that's my future nirvana. My my weekly nirvana. I've had a pretty busy week, I would say one little thing that brought me joy, which is kind of silly slash embarrassing is that I tried to not drink this week. And for the next like two weeks, I was like, Okay, I'm not going to drink anything. Because I mean, I've been like, on vacation and just having a summer you know, with the boys gone and drinking and just enjoying it. I'm like, this is just too gluttonous. I need to cut it off. So I like haven't drank a weed. I've eaten really clean and I feel so good. So it was just I don't know, I feeling really good this week, because I was cutting out all of the sugar and all the bad stuff for me. So that's my nirvana. What about you, me now?

Amina 3:12

That's amazing. I'm proud of you. It was it was also kind of related to motherhood. I was in this cute little town called the habit, Egypt's that's kind of a diving and snorkeling town. And I was walking with my son, and just ahead of us was my sister and her husband. And so we were kind of walking behind me and my three year old boy. And he just kissed my hand and said, I love spending time with your mama. And it just like, melted my heart. And I feel like keep this moment with me throughout the week because of how special it was.

Amy 3:44

Oh, he's so sweet. What was his name again?

Amina 3:47

Malik.

Katie 3:48

Now, like, that's such a good name. Remember

Amy 3:50

when we met, he was like a baby. And I watched him grow on your Instagram. And he's beautiful. And I love pictures with you guys together.

Amina 3:59

You know that? That I met? You was actually the first time I had left him ever.

Katie 4:04

Oh, wow. That's right.

Amy 4:05

And we had that long conversation about motherhood on the boat. I remember that. So yeah, I Katie, I have just you know, I've been to some of Amina's classes in New York. And I've talked to her a lot. And I really wanted to interview her for the show because I one thing stuck out to me. I mean, and I think I told you when we were chatting that when I first met Amina, I was like, Oh my God, she's so incredible. She's so flexible. She's so beautiful. Yoga just must come to her like so easily. And I remember her saying, No, in fact, I just started yoga. I think it was at that point. Maybe you had started yoga five years ago, and you were like, I couldn't touch my toes. When I first started. I was not athletic. I would lay around on the couch and I was like blown away because someone like you seems to me like you would just like have it in your nature. So thank you for coming on the show. And I just wanted to give Katie that little update because I was just so impressed. So we have some quickfire questions and then we'll kind of get into the main interview. But how long have you been practicing yoga?

Amina 5:00

I started November 2014. So it's about seven years now, I would say,

Amy 5:05

amazing. And what is your favorite pose?

Amina 5:09

My favorite pose changes every week. This week. It's happy baby, just because it feels so good and happy, widespread. Yeah. Yesterday, we did a happy baby under the stars in a workshop. So it just felt so amazing. And I still love that post right now.

Katie 5:26

Sounds amazing.

Amy 5:27

That's awesome. Okay, so Amina tell us about growing up in Egypt and your background and kind of your journey to yoga.

Amina 5:34

So I actually moved to Egypt in middle school, and I always wanted to study fashion. So yoga was completely out of my, you know, ambitions or, or any kind of future plan. And when the revolution happened, I had just graduated. So the Egyptian revolution happened in 2011. And I had just graduated university, I had studied fine arts. And I was dreaming about, you know, living abroad and studying fashion because there was no fashion schools in Egypt. So I moved to Paris did an intro to fashion course. And then from there did another, applied basically to do a master's in fashion in New York. And I finished that. And then I was about to start my first job with choice and Abu Dhabi in fashion. And I had a month to kill. So in that month to kill, I was like, let me start something new, like a new hobby. And that's how I walked into my first yoga class. And my life just completely changed from there because it became my passion.

Katie 6:35

That sounds amazing. You first of all, you're a little you're not little but your big growth through passion sounds epic and Paris and New York, but must have no such an unbelievable experience.

Amina 6:46

Love it, like, yeah, it's always gonna stay a part of me. But if for some reason, I just felt more connected to the My purpose felt more true to teaching yoga, nothing brought me more joy than doing that.

Katie 6:58

That's really beautiful. Were you active before? Did you exercise or do anything prior to that?

Amina 7:04

Never.

Katie 7:05

Gosh, it's insane. That's

Amy 7:07

what I'm saying. I was like, incredible.

Amina 7:10

I could not touch my toes. I had never done any I just always also like labored labeled myself as a person who just doesn't enjoy sports who's not active. So I had the most unhealthy kind of foods lifestyle, I just had a really fast metabolism. So I would eat, I would wake up and eat cheesecake, I would just, I was like, oh my god over for a few years, I just had this disconnect from my body. And I felt like I was a stranger and my body never really understood my body. And then that's really what drew me the most to yoga was that at 27, I felt like, oh, I can start to actually connect to this to this vessel that I use every day, you know?

Katie 7:47

Yeah, I definitely understand that I started practicing yoga, I want to say like, maybe three years ago, but nowhere near anything like you. I'm so curious about your practice. Like when you first started, were you just taking the occasional class and then you realize that you enjoyed it and ramped up? Like, how did that transition happen? Because I mean, I'm lucky if I get like 230 minutes sessions a week, which is so lame. But how did that happen for you?

Amina 8:12

So I actually had that month to kill until my office was ready. So I was practicing very consistently, the first month that I started, I was going to yoga classes, I would say like about three times a week. And I just had the, you know, kind of the luxury of going whenever I wanted in the day. And then when I started my nine to five job, that's when I really felt the shift after doing it for a month as much as I wanted, then having that, like, I'm sitting on a desk nine to five, you know, then I started to have to prioritize it into my day. So I'd wake up really early practice at home, or I would finish my, my work my meetings, and I would go to like a yoga class in the evening. And I didn't have you know, an abundance of yoga studios around me. So I actually had to also rely on myself. And that process of just reading up about things, you know, reading about a reading up about the body or anatomy or like, whatever I was inspired to achieve. For example, I was like, Oh, I would love to do a headstand, it would be so cool if I could do a headstand. And then I would watch these tutorials and kind of teach myself step by step how to how to do that. So I was already kind of on the path of becoming a yoga teacher because I was teaching myself and everybody around me because I was so excited about these things that I was learning so I definitely prioritize it. And I would say I had a daily practice for the most part ever since I started like, wow, minimum maybe like five you know? Yeah, like three to five times a week but once I had that, that nine to five job I was doing it almost every day.

Katie 9:42

Wow. And for the listener, Amina can do yoga positions that I mean, just are completely uncommon and very rare. I mean, you can bend your body into things I've never seen before. It's really amazing. The other day I saw on Insta you had you were like halfway up, sit down and you had your arm completely wrapped around you leg, your leg was over your shoulder. It was insane. So it's really, it's really impressive. It's so cool.

Amy 10:08

And being that you weren't able to touch your toes before you started, like, how does that happen? I mean, how how can you go from one to the other is it just just the practice and the repetition and your body just gets the mental memory and gets used to it. I mean, it's really remarkable.

Amina 10:25

Honestly, I think, I believe truly, that if you are in control of your breath, and if you are, you know, using your breath as a tool to keep your nervous system calm, and you're not forcing anything, you're actually just being curious and just breathing and, and also prioritizing stability over everything in your flexibility practice, you can do anything. That's what I always tell my students, like, if I can do this, you can do it, I had the most rounded upper spine when I started, I was always sitting down and hunching over on a table in like fashion school, my shoulders were tight, my hips were tight, like, so all of these things I feel like are just about convincing your bought your you know, the the brakes on your body are done by your nervous system. So if you are breathing slowly, using a lot of ease and a lot of like, just gentle techniques with your body, you will be able to release any kind of tension that you've accumulated. And I always like to think of it as we're all born flexible. This whatever tension we have or holding on to it's just accumulation of years of postural habits, or, you know, it's it's not something that's outside of us, we are all flexible, you just have to uncover those layers of of what doesn't need to be there.

Amy 11:38

You know, that is I've never thought about that before. And that is so true. Because if you think about babies, you're right, you are more flexible, and then the world takes over and you become not flexible. So I love that. And I think with the breath, I mean, I practice breath work as much as I can. And I think practicing the breath work is probably just as you probably have to do that just as rigorously as you practice the poses because they both require work and repetition, I would imagine.

Katie 12:04

What is that? What's the breath? I'm sure I'm saying like Awaji or something that you do on yoga, specifically, what is it called?

Amina 12:11

It's the Ojai. Yeah. And it's that that the reason this breath is so powerful is because it also it's meditative, because it has a sound. So you're just focusing on the sound of your breathing. And when you're focusing on the sound of your breathing, any thoughts about your body kind of start to you know, you have a little bit of space, because, you know, I've had these moments where I've gone into a pose and thought, Oh, I'm so stiff, oh, today is just not my day. My hips are tight, you know, our by our minds are always narrating and chattering and telling us judgments about us or about the world around us. So in your practice with your Ojai breath, you're actually able to just be like, hey, wait a minute, I'm just gonna tune into my breath and just allow whatever is to be and I'm not gonna try to make these constant assessments and judgments.

Katie 12:55

What is the trick that makes you make that sound? I can't remember, how do you how do you describe that?

Amina 13:00

You basically like constrict the airflow, so you squeeze the muscles of the back of your throat. And when you do that, it makes that sound like an ocean oceanic kind of sound. And it's so fascinating, because I always thought of it as a meditative breath. But I recently have been reading a lot about how this breath is tied to your deep core muscles and your pelvic floor. So it's actually when you actually activate that, that throat, breath activation, you're actually contracting your entire midline, all the way down to the base of your pelvis, your pelvic floor. So it even allows you to use your core without even being consciously squeezing your core. You're actually contracting your core just with that breath. So it's amazing. Wow,

Amy 13:42

that is that is incredible. So Amina, you've been teaching for a really long time. And then obviously, you know, growing and getting super popular. And for anyone who hasn't taken a class with Amina, I highly recommend that you do I did. I think the last time I saw you, Amina, we met in Brooklyn and I did that class and I felt so incredible afterwards. And I remember doing what's like a backward bent a wheelbarrow on the wheel. And I hadn't done that in probably 10 years and in your class, I was able to do it because I felt so relaxed and at ease with you that I felt comfort I don't know, there was something that came over me that I was like, I'm going to try this again and I feel safe. So just for anyone that is listening, please go take one of her classes and now she's I was going to ask you about your transition to zoom because I knew you were teaching in person then obviously everything hits so how did that work? The transition and tell us about that a little bit.

Amina 14:35

So I actually felt a sense of panic when COVID happened because my in studio classes were canceled put on hold for you know indefinitely so I was kind of I was upset because this is the main thing that I just love doing you know and and so I remember feeling like okay, I could sit here and panic or I have to just adapt so I right away started teaching I think Instagram lives. And then I remember that and it was it was really Nice, but I also felt like I would love to actually see my students as well, I would love to like, see them, you know, and just see what they're doing and give them life feedback. So I started teaching on Zoom. At first, it was very manual, I would collect people's emails and send them the link and it was like, and then it, it slowly grew, luckily, and then it got to a point where I just needed the platform to be able to manage all of this, it was crazy. So I found the platform. And then I started kind of growing it into like packages and subscriptions. And so now it's just super fun that I could just focus on creating workshops or immersion trainings or you know, classes and then people get to join and everything's automated. So it's been great. So people

Amy 15:41

how to, is it on your Instagram? Like if someone wants to sign up for your zoom class, they can just click a link and then you send them the link and it's all kind of easy. Oh,

Amina 15:51

yeah. So I have like a weekly schedule that they find on my in my Instagram bio. And then through that there's a schedule of all the workshops, all the live classes, and then some people are practicing from Australia so the timezone isn't like suitable for them. So what they'll do is they'll sign up still, but they'll get a recording to practice the class right after whenever they're ready.

Amy 16:12

Oh, cool. Yeah, that's

Katie 16:13

great. Do you practice are rather teach various types of yoga or just vinyasa? What do you what, what are you doing there?

Amina 16:21

Right now I'm kind of doing this, like kind of my own thing. So it's a blend of yoga and pilates. And so it's like a bit of sometimes I'll teach just kind of a more traditional vinyasa flow. Sometimes I'll teach Hatha, but right now what my body is loving is a blend of yoga and pilates. So that's kind of what I've been teaching and playing around with. And it's, it's, it's been really nice, because I've been balancing a lot of strength with, with flexibility with, you know, graceful yoga transitions. So it's hard to describe, but I would say it's a it's a mix of dynamic flexibility, breath work, and a lot of stability work as well.

Amy 16:59

And how long are your classes typically on Zoom.

Amina 17:02

So on Zoom, I do usually 75 minutes, if sometimes workshops could be up to like 90 to two hours, 90 minutes, but I am also doing some classes that people can stream. And so those I'm going to have them range from like five minutes to 60 plus minutes as well.

Katie 17:22

I need to take one of your classes stat.

Amina 17:25

I would love for you to come. It would be amazing.

Katie 17:28

So tell us about your being an alo ambassador. I assume they're probably one of your favorite brands to rock. But how did that all come about?

Unknown Speaker 17:39

Yeah, I actually used to buy all my Alo outfits myself, and I you know, this was always like a dream. And I would I would get these brand deals and I would wear this stuff. And then I would always be like, aloes, just superior, you know, and I still have these moments now that are like, when they release a new collection. And I get sent a new collection have these pinch me moments of like, wow, this is such an incredible opportunity. I love the clothing. Being a former, you know, fashion students, I truly appreciate how they keep, you know, they get you excited to wear to wear their stuff. And as a brand. I just really aligned with them. So it's been it's it's still like I still sometimes find it so surreal that this happened. It was like a dream come true. But yeah, I actually moved to New York when they were opening up a studio, their first New York studio, so So I feel like the studio was growing as I was also teaching there. So so it feels very personal to me that space and the brand itself. So yeah,

Katie 18:39

that's congratulations. I mean, that's really that's huge. It's really exciting at the actually they're their yoga app was how I learned how to do yoga. I mean, of course, I've taken classes before, but I've never practiced at home. So that's, I use their app and their their teachers to learn how and it's really it's a it's a great app, it has an offer so much, right?

Amina 19:00

Yes, it's amazing. Honestly, them as a brand with everything. They just really support their Yogi's in every sense, and it's incredible to work with them and just to be working with yoga teachers that I was learning from online when I started my journey, you know, it's, it's amazing. Yeah, so

Amy 19:16

speaking about starting your journey, we you know, I'm sure we have listeners that are across the spectrum from people that do yoga all the time, or people who haven't tried it and want to try so what would you what would your advice be to someone who wants to

Amina 19:28

start so I would say just let go of any expectations of what your practice should look like. And just know that starting anything as a beginner is going to be very humbling and very challenging. And I think it's just reminding yourself that it's not about being you know, quote unquote, good at anything. It's just about going and having this experience with yourself, getting to know yourself a little bit better, getting to know your body and just working with it very gently forcing nothing and just allowing that journey to unfold naturally. And I think that is just you know, the most important thing

Amy 20:00

Yeah, that's really good advice.

Katie 20:02

It is I heard, I heard somebody once say about yoga that like, it's it's not a pose, it's a feeling. And I just always try to remember that went through it. Yeah, cuz it is helpful because you think like, do I am I doing this pose? Right? Does it look cool? Am I like, if I was in a class right now what I look like someone that knows how to do yoga, you have to remind yourself like, yeah, it's about, it's about how it feels.

Amina 20:25

And also like, Instagram has also kind of set this, you know, crazy standard for yoga, like I take accountability for all posts, our best shapes. And you know, you rarely really see a person's millions of falls and struggles and how they actually learned to get to where they are. And that that process is really important. And that process is the beginner beginner phase. And you're always a beginner, you're never going to you know, in yoga, there's no such thing as ever mastering anything, you're always going to be to continuous, lifelong work in progress. So I think just remembering that and trying to keep it very consistent, just making it a habit, even when it's the last thing you want to do just get on your mat for five to 10 minutes, you can even just put on a song and breathe and move intuitively and and just just in that you're connecting to your body and your breath. And that in itself is so it's so life changing. Yeah, that's

Amy 21:16

a really good point. Yeah, I mean, speaking of the process of yoga, I've seen you'll share on your Instagram, a lot of your your community and and then sort of learning different poses and showing their successes and challenges along the way. So I love that you do that, because it's very relatable to see, you know, the people that are taking your classes and the things that they're learning, and they're not, you know, perfect either. So, that's great to hear. And also speaking of your Instagram, we love all the beautiful photography on your Instagram. It's just gorgeous. And of course, I love the ones with your family. Who does your photography? Do you do it yourself? Or do you have someone? How does that work? Because you just have gorgeous photography.

Amina 21:55

So it's actually my partner, my husband who started taking photos of me with a phone when I was first like still learning yoga, I would be taking you take this photo, and I would like fall out and he'd be like, learn it first before you want me to take a photo of it. And he would act like he didn't take it seriously at all, you know, but then when he would take a photo, he had such a good eye that I would post that photo and I had like 300 followers, and it would go viral. So I told him I was like, There's something special about how you take photos. And so can we just get a camera and just try this out. And he was like, Okay, I'm not very excited. And then it just grew because he like, I know that he has a very special eye in the way he captures anything. And so he's the main person that takes all of my photos. And he actually was the one that started filming my first online series. And he has no experience with us. He just knows how to like create something out of nothing, and just make it amazing. He's just so talented like that. So now we actually are releasing an app. And he's also, you know, my main videographer, my main to everything, he has another job, but he does this just

Amy 23:02

to oh my gosh, I had no idea that is amazing. It's a family affair I live in.

Katie 23:08

I mean, he has his gorgeous muse to propel this forward. That's really cool. And the photography is absolutely stunning. I mean, even the picture I'm looking at right now on our zoom meeting is insane. Well, thank you. So you just said you brought this app coming? Tell us Yeah,

Amy 23:23

tell us about the app and your website, I saw it said coming soon.

Amina 23:27

So this app, I wanted to create a platform that you know offers like kind of accessible movement classes from people for people all around the world ranging from like five minutes to 60 plus minutes, and for all levels. So whether you're completely new to yoga, you have a class that you can, you know, a series that you can do every single day that you grow with. And even if you're more experienced as a practitioner, you can also dive deeper into poses, take your time to learn, you know, different types of movements. So it's going to be a blend of yoga, pilates, and Barre and some meditation classes as well. And it's I just wanted to kind of have as an extension of my teaching to just, you know, be easy on people's phones on their laptops, and they can just have really good quality classes to use.

Katie 24:11

That's genius. It'll do well,

Amy 24:13

when is that going to launch? Congratulations.

Amina 24:15

I think it's launching in September now. So it's very soon. I've been filming a lot of different things for it here. So I've been traveling around the country and just kind of sharing my home with with my app so that my students from everywhere can can get to experience it with me too. So I'm so excited.

Amy 24:33

Okay, well you have to let us know when it launches so we can tell our listeners well maybe by the time that this airs, it might be long it might be longer check it out. Yes, I can't I can't wait. That's awesome. Well,

Katie 24:45

the app sounds incredible and I'm I'm super excited for it and I'm so happy for you. It's

Amy 24:50

it's huge. It's we will definitely be subscribers for sure.

Katie 24:54

So that's ticket into our rap session. Amina. We have a couple of fun questions to ask you because you are Without a doubt the picture of health and wellness and beauty. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? So

Amina 25:08

my favorite wellness or beauty hack is good, a good skincare routine, something new that I've started doing. And I just, I just love it. And now it's like my daily thing. And I've noticed such a big difference because it's also kind of a mindfulness practice, you know, just taking that time, especially if you're a mom, or you're running a business and running around. So I just really enjoy my daily very simple skincare routine. And what is that routine? So I wake up, I wash my face and I put vitamin C, my dermatologist is the one that recommended all this. And then I put my sunscreen. And then at night I wash my face with a like a double cleanse and then I put my retinol and moisturizer and then go to sleep. This is very simple.

Unknown Speaker 25:53

Routine, right? Yeah, it's my daily daily practice

Amina 25:55

for

Katie 25:56

the amazing you'll have to you have to give us the brand's ears and we'll put them in the show notes. Yeah,

Amy 26:01

I find to like sometimes now that I'm into a skincare routine as well, that it's very like therapeutic in a way. It's like relaxing to do that at night and have that ritual.

Amina 26:10

Yeah, it really is. And then I actually noticed, it's like it gives you these results after a while like it's not a quick fix, but it's like, now I'm really seeing the difference because I've kept up with it. So I always like believe that consistency is the most important thing consistency over like intensity, you know, and it's been great.

Katie 26:27

Yeah, sure. Love it. Okay, so the next one's kind of fun. We caught our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber pings you they're five minutes away. What are you going to do to get out the door and get in that Uber on time like your holy grails, what do you do to get it together and out there.

Amina 26:43

So I would get a get out of the shower, put honey oil on my hair. It's something I really like to do. And then sunscreen, and eyeliner. And that's it.

Katie 26:57

Honey oil that sounds intriguing.

Unknown Speaker 27:00

It's a brand called Gisou. And it's really nice if you have curly hair, it's and I've kind of relieving my hair curly. So I put it on the ends and it just gives your hair just stops like your hair from being frizzy, especially with like New York City humidity, where I live most of the time. It's like, very humid in the summer. So it's it's yeah, it's called Gisou. It's

Unknown Speaker 27:20

great. Nice.

Amy 27:21

Oh, those things often heard of that before? Okay. I mean, this probably goes without saying, but how do you maintain your daily nirvana.

Amina 27:28

It's either the daily movement or a five minute meditation every day where I just sit down, just focus on my breath and put it I actually put a timer for five minutes, and I sit and just see the thoughts that come up. And I just shift back my attention to my breath. And it's such a simple, small thing, but it makes the biggest difference in my day. It's a good reminder to us all. Yeah. And it's pretty easy. You know, it's just something that you kind of just keep up with and just do and like my husband says, it's annoying, because it's something that you really feel the difference when you don't do it. You know?

Katie 28:05

It's true. Well, I was gonna ask you, you know, when I started yoga, it was before I started meditating, and I noticed how present it made me and don't you feel like yoga is such a meditative practice that it can almost work. It can do the same thing for a lot of people I find Yogi's are always super present and engaging and calm. Which is Yeah, such a lovely byproduct.

Amina 28:26

Yeah, it really is. I always love one of my friends says there's a you before yoga and a you after yoga, and those two people are not the same. And it's so true. You know, you can walk into a yoga class with so much just, you know, chaos and chatter and a lot of you know ideas about your day or about yourself and you just leave that class just feeling a little bit lighter. And that's so valuable.

Katie 28:48

All right, well, should we wrap with our product review? And then I think Amina, you have a mantra for us, right? Yes. Okay, great. All right. So let me kick in this product review. Really? Yeah, I'm

Amy 28:57

excited to hear this. Katie has been like bringing all these product reviews surprising me and I don't know what they are, like very excited to hear what you have.

Katie 29:05

Well, speaking of vitamin C cream Amina. It's part of your repertoire now. It's part of mine as well. We recently interviewed a dermatologist Dr. Nazarian, she'll be well her episode will be up shortly and she was talking about vitamin C creams. I've always had kind of uneven skin and I felt like it's been really dull lately. So I got this product. It's Sunday. Riley is fabulous. We've talked about Sunday, Riley before and it's their CEO 15% Vitamin C brightening serum. Nice. I have used it for a month now. And within probably like a week or two weeks, I noticed a difference instantly. Like my skin tone has always been a little uneven and it's now even down to the point where I don't feel like I need to put makeup on anymore.

Amy 29:48

Oh my gosh. It's amazing. Well, thank

Katie 29:50

you. It's also brighter, like I don't know how to describe the difference between my skin not being bright and when it is bright. It's just something I noticed and I See, right for it just felt like dull maybe sometimes like ashy and pale and now there's a brightness to it. So you can get this at Sundayriley.com or Sephora obviously I'm sure many other places it's $85 for 1.7 fluid ounce. And the ingredients that matter are the key ingredients is obviously the vitamin C has phytosterols complex and they are they help reduce the look at redness, which is partly like why I would be blotchy all the time I never felt like it was my skintone was even was like redness around my nose and stuff. And then saccharide SRE extra glycolic acid, all that good stuff. And then of course, it's without all the bad stuff that we don't like the parabens, sulfates and everything.

Amy 30:43

So Katie, do you put that on in the morning? Like is that the first thing you put on your? Yeah, do you do like a serum first.

Katie 30:49

So this is the very first thing I put on. I use two pumps. I was doing it day and night and I kind of ripped through it quickly. And now I'm looking at their website it says really like if you just use it in the morning, it works just as well. So I literally ran out yesterday. Yeah, I've been doing that. And then my serum and then yeah, and then my my lotion and my eye cream. But I love it. And it also happens to be it was rated by like Elle in 2020 is like the number one product for the year. So it's it's legit. It's really good stuff. Yeah,

Amy 31:22

I like that brand a lot. I am I have a I have the SkinCeuticals vitamin C, but it's like vitamin C, with Yeah, the E with folic acid, which I really liked too. But when that runs out, I'm going to try this for sure.

Katie 31:36

You'll love it. And I mean, it worked right away it really, it's really good stuff.

Amy 31:41

That's great. Well, good product review. Thanks for that. And we're going to close out the show with Amina giving us a mantra, which I'm excited to hear.

Amina 31:50

It's been my mantra for the past year since the pandemic hit and I actually another yoga teacher that I was teaching at a festival said it in his class and I stuck with me. And it's I breathe in. I love my body. I breathe out. I'm home in my body.

Katie 32:06

I love that.

Amy 32:07

I was just like taking that. I was.

Katie 32:10

I know I was just thinking about I'm going to be using that when I meditate later. That's beautiful. Thank you.

Amy 32:15

That's beautiful. Well, thank you so much. Amina, this has been great. I definitely would love to have you back. I feel like there's so many more yoga and questions about you. I want to hear I want to hear all about your Egypt experience this summer and other cool stuff you're working on. But I know we're running out of time today. But thank you so much for your time for dialing in from Egypt for sending us all your positive energy and vibes and just your your beautiful soul. I think you're such a great person. And I just hope I can see you sometime soon. Maybe when you're back in New York.

Unknown Speaker 32:46

Yes.

Amina 32:46

I hope you come into a class or even just take an online class. I

Unknown Speaker 32:50

know you have to join in. Yeah. And Katie. Yeah,

Amina 32:55

thank you so much for having me. It was so fun to chat with you and I hope we chat again soon.

Katie 33:01

Thank you. Thanks, Amina.

Amy 33:03

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 23 - 8 Hot Topics in Skin Right Now with Board Certified NYC Dermatologist Dr.Rachel Nazarian - Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 23.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie:0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a form of fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy:0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Welcome back to Nirvana sisters, this is part two with Dr. Nazarian, we hope you enjoyed part one all about the skin. This episode really focuses on skin conditions, the face under eye darkness, fillers, Botox surgery, Body Sculpting fat removal and a game changing injectable for cellulite. And Katie also has a great product review at the end. So stay tuned for that and hope you enjoy part two.

Katie:1:10

Well, I would like to touch on a little bit of a personal note. And that is psoriasis. My husband, my mother and now my seven year old daughter habit. And my seven year old has had one large patch on her leg that has now spread to I don't know maybe like 30 or 40 spots. And we're just we're trying to kind of wrap our head around it like my husband, he's had it his whole life. But it comes and goes it's pretty late. And it's completely stress related. When he's low stress. It's gone when you know otherwise. And my mom's has gotten better. I think she's in what they actually call it psoriasis remission. I think I've read somewhere she doesn't have it anywhere. But my seven year old all of a sudden it's popping up all over the place. And I don't I don't know what to do for her aside from the topical steroid cream that was given to her that I don't really love using. So any any thoughts or advice? A

Dr. Nazarian:2:05

lot of thoughts? You're kidding. Tons of thoughts. First of all, your mother and your husband, right? So you have psoriasis, which we know is genetic on your mom's side, on your side, right, the mommy side. And then we have it on Daddy side. So this poor girl like obviously, she was getting the two hits from both sides, right? But it's gonna be fine, it's going to be fine. You know, Psoriasis is a skin condition where essentially the skin is just overreacting to we don't know what so normally the cell cycle is you get your new skin and then it's sloughs and you know it has like however many weeks cycle that takes your skin to renew itself fine. For people that have psoriasis, for whatever reason, this normal timeline is like revved up. So you just keep making more and more with the skin just basically piles up on itself. So it leads to these thick, red scaly plaques. But it is an inflammatory condition we know that involves inflammatory cytokines in the body. And it can also create some issues and other parts of the body with inflammation. So it's not just a skin condition, right, it can affect the joints, we know that it can affect cardiac, you know, so people can get arthritis. And definitely stair flares with stress. But the good news is, is that when I say we've come a long way, I mean, we have come a long way. When it comes to psoriasis. Every few years, there's a more and more and more targeted therapy for psoriasis. So back in the day, what they used to do is just suppress the immune system. Because you know, I'm telling you, this is like basically an overactive immune system in the skin, right, too much skin too much skin. And so you would suppress that, and you would help your psoriasis but it would also leave you a little bit more vulnerable to infection. That's what you need your immune system to fight. And so what they ended up doing is finding what we call biologics that now target closer and closer and closer the pathway to the inflammatory targets that cause psoriasis. So rather than like blocking the whole immune system, you're blocking it less and less and less, right, more and more targeted, which means way less side effects Much, much safer, easy for people to do. I mean, I have patients on biologics that they only have to give themselves the medication four times a year, every few months. Done. And that's nice because regardless of how much skin they have effective, which is obviously really upsetting. You know, I don't have to worry so much about their joints, you know, protected them. Because, God forbid you get really psoriatic arthritis that can be really tough. And so you want to catch those things before they really start to decrease quality of life for patients. Now, steroids which are like the topical creams, typically we don't we don't really do oral steroids for psoriasis, topical creams, and some ways you can think of it as working more locally right? So you're not affecting the whole immune system. All you do is Orbison, but should be fine, you know a little bit here and there when they need it. If you find that a patient is becoming sort of not dependent, but like needs it all the time, in order to keep their psoriasis in check, then we like to actually do vitamin D analogues, maybe you've heard of like hospital trying, those take a little bit longer to work. There's things like vitamin D. And so those take a little bit longer to work. So generally, we'll kind of get them started on the steroid cream, so they just feel like better faster, and then give the vitamin D cream a little bit more time to work. And then they can do that more long term. That's a really great regimen. If somebody you know only has a couple patches, let's say or it's like, it's realistic for them to be able to apply it. We even do topical retinoids if you want to go back to that, because remember, I told you right now it's helped like regulate the cell cycle and get more normalized like get rid of like old skin help healthy new skin take its place. So actually what retinoids will do for psoriasis will also help regulate the way the cells are behaving and act more normal. So retinoids are a wonderful part of some psoriasis regiments. You can even do ultraviolet therapy or phototherapy, even safer than going outside, rather than going outside and baking, which a lot of people used to do for their psoriasis because they got better in the sun and then exposing yourself to all this radiation, which increases your risk of skin cancer. Now we just use specific wavelengths. And that's even safer than being outside for a couple minutes. And so you can do that for your psoriasis and just target the areas that you need. There are so many different ways to treat psoriasis, depending on what area of the body it is. But, you know, my my advice would be don't get, don't get nervous about the medications. I mean, I have family members that are on them. I don't know how I would feel if I had to put my child on medicine, my kids are so young, I made you feel like I probably always be nervous about everything. I mean, I'm a doctor, I still get a little nervous when they get vaccines that tells you what Mom Brain is and what Dr. Brain is, I can't shut it off. They're going back. So of course they're gonna get their vaccine for like, I don't know why my head just goes, Oh, my child's can, you might say something wrong, because it's gonna happen, you know. And with psoriasis, I think would probably be the same, I'd be a little nervous, I understand that. But if she is getting to the point where it's really impacting how she feels about herself and her life and how she looks, oh my gosh, don't be scared, don't be scary. These medications are so safe now. And if you think about it, they're protecting the inside of her body. Right? So let's cardiac issues, less joint issues, you know, the patients that are on some of these biologics actually have better cardiac health, long run less cardiac events, you know, or just healthier patients because of what these medications can do. Now, you know, she's young, you want to see how the creams work for a little bit, I get it, you want to have alternatives to steroids, whether you do the vitamin D, or you do truly the non steroidal creams that work similarly, but are safe. For long term, maybe names you've heard of like Ella del Protopic. Those are other medications you can use. There's a lot of options on the menu, and just be open to them. Let them lay out all the risks and benefits on the table. But you know, for a lot of the stuff that's out there honest to god, I wouldn't hesitate. I really wouldn't for myself, my gosh, no problem. For my family members. Really, I think it's the right choice.

Katie:8:37

That's, that's very

Amy:8:38

encouraging. That sounds really treatable. Like if you're gonna have something at least it's like a treatable thing that she has not something that's not as

Dr. Nazarian:8:46

psoriasis, you know, I

Amy:8:47

mean, that's, that's right.

Katie:8:50

Now, that's very encouraging, because she used steroid creams are just not working out for her. They're not honestly, they're not really helping that much. And she is a little bit more high strung. And I just thought, you know, steroids can seep in, even if it's in little doses. So it's not even helping. So it's good to know that she has she has other options, we're going to look into it. So I appreciate that. Thank you.

Dr. Nazarian:9:12

Of course, reach out if you have more questions. I'm happy to continue talking about it. Okay. Thanks. Thanks.

Amy:9:18

So I have some questions. Because I'm obsessed with this topic. puffy eyes, dark circles, ridges hollowness, like as you get older, and you have that, like I've tried so many different creams different like there's just, I know there's not a miracle cream, but do you have advice for like the puffy the darkness, like all of that lovely stuff that starts happening to your eyes.

Dr. Nazarian:9:41

Alright, so under eyes, there's a couple things that happen in the under eyes, right? So as you get older, your skull changes, right? The skull of an eight year old is not the skull of a 16 year old, like anatomically there's different right. And so one of the things that happens as we get older is the eye sockets. hollowed out. So you ended up getting contour changes, right where the eyes are a little bit more sort of sunken in looking as you get older, and then the tear trough start to cast a shadow to your trough is that sort of like Ridge underneath your eyes, right? So it tends to cast a shadow, as you get older. Some people they're just like, that's just how they look, they're kind of born like that, that's just the shape of their face naturally. Most people even if that's not your natural shape, as you get older, you will notice that sort of happening, that's part of it. Other thing that happens as we get older for many, many, many people is that those wonderful cushions of fat that sit around the eyeball, tend to kind of move and migrate a little bit as things shift, and also puffed out and herniate a little bit as not only as you get older as a skin sort of weakened and thins out as well. Right. It's a very delicate area, a little bit of Cushing. And as a skin weakened, you kind of heard it a little bit. Well, that's where you get like the true puff that real bag. Right? As opposed to I was talking about before, which is like a contour hollow and like shadow being cast, right. Neither one of those issues can be covered with foundation or concealer, whatever it is that people are using these days, you can't you can't cover contour, either a puff or a shadow with color, it's not gonna change anything, right? That's a little test. It's how you know, versus true pigment, whether it is from rubbing allergies, or whatever else or just genetic, some people just have true dark pigment on the skin. So you can like pull the skin down, you'll still see that colors is a different shade, right. And then lastly, the area is very thin. So oftentimes, if you have thin skin in this area, it's almost like translucent. And you can see like purple blood vessels underneath you basically the lights just shining through, right. So you have translucency you have pigment, you have puffiness and you have a true shadow from a hollowing. Okay, all those things play into the on your eye area that isn't even really get into like wrinkles and sagginess. But that we all kind of already know how to identify, all right. All of those things are treated differently. They're not treated the same, right? So you really need to know what's the issue in order to pick the right fix. So, for the hollow, we'll call the tear trough, I do filler, I do a little bit of hyaluronic filler, I've gotten it done. Everyone else has gotten it done. I'm the Kardashians definitely got it done. I've got nothing going on no tear trough so they're definitely filled. And that's how you get rid of that shadow. Easy. The bad that puffiness that's pushing out, that needs to be removed surgically. Not a big deal procedure. But that's the only way to get rid of it. And we do a procedure called a lower blepharoplasty fabulous. Doctors will go in there, take out that little fat pad, close it up, done, done deal. So beautiful procedure for pigment, you can use topical ingredients that literally lightened and get rid of pigment, right so licorice root extract, some people use hydrocodone, some people use Kojic acid, whatever, there's a lot of different ingredients that will literally break up pigment. And then for that translucency, you have to do things that actually thicken the skin and create more collagen. And whether you want to do it in a way that's topical, like you're using peptides and retinoids and things to help stimulate collagen, or you're doing lasers and micro needling and something else to stimulate collagen like a procedure or device. That's the way to do that fix that also will help with some of the tightening and some of the wrinkles and the creepiness because you're stimulating collagen as well. So just like you're just basically improving the type of skin that you have with a whole last bunch of stuff.

Amy:13:38

Yeah, that's really interesting and helpful. I've done various versions of many of those things. I've done micro needling a couple of times, which I love. I'm not sure if it helps under here like a little bit. I've done filler ones but I didn't actually love it because I'll tell you what happened to me if this is weird. So I got filler a couple of years ago in that area because again, it was like dark and not as hollow but just more like that dark look. So I got the filler. And I felt like it made the little puffs that I had underneath my eyes like stick out. So I almost felt like it made it look worse. Although I didn't look as wrinkly I just put the puffiness like I have a picture of it from like, immediately when I got it. It's like it kind of like went out. So I didn't really love it, but I just kind of it looked fine. wasn't great. It wasn't bad. It was just sort of like is what it is but I didn't like how it sort of pumps it out. And then I guess it took about a year and a half two years to like go out of my system but lately so like a month ago I always had for the last couple of months these like dark lines and so I asked my dermatologist and she was like yeah, it's from old filler and it's like casting this like purple whatever so I got it drained and there was actually quite a lot still in there. So once I got it drained it was so interesting because those black lines that were like right here, came out I still have the black on or I mean the dark under here but I don't have that anymore. So it was so interesting. So she was like, you could do filler again, she was like, but it might kind of be the same. So she was telling me about that. Like in the future, she was like, you could do a lower blast, or whatever. And then she also suggested doing that transfer under the tear trough because she said that might be better than doing filler all the time, because it might not like work as well for you. So I always love the questions because I'm like, my husband thinks I'm crazy. So I don't even know what you're talking about. But like I see it every time I look in the mirror, like it's better now that I got it drains, but I still see it. And now I'm like, Oh, now that I got it drained, I can actually see more wrinkles. Like there's never like one. Like it's never like going to even out if I do one thing, the other thing happens. But anyway, I just I wasn't sure if like if you keep doing Miller and things like that, or if it like stretches out your skin, or if it's just better just to do the surgery at once.

Dr. Nazarian:15:51

So it's really interesting to me how many people ask me about the filler, whether it stretches out your skin? No, it doesn't stretch out your skin, you're gonna damage your skin like that you're not going to like the filler is gonna go away and you're like, oh, loose and saggy. Now, if you stripped a balloon too much, absolutely not. You were literally replacing what you had, you were stimulating your own collagen formulation. And you were trying to just sort of give support to the underlying tissue where it used to have that support, you're trying to look like yourself. That's all you're trying to do. So but what does happen as you get older the skin gets so lacks, right? Like people think about anti aging. And all they're thinking about sometimes it's just like, filling, right? But you didn't age by just losing volume, you lot you aged by losing volume. And also losing elasticity like the skin is more lacks, and it's less full, because you've lost a lot of that structure underneath. So when you anti age, you're never going to be happy unless you anti HSM wait. If all you did was fill, you'd look like a big balloon, which is we've seen that by the we've all seen that I know we've seen it it's awful when people look overfilled. And then if all you did was tighten, you would look like you're in a bad facelift, right? Because what they used to do back in the day, they actually tighten it and pull it and sew it back. It's just they're both completely inappropriate if used alone. The right way to do it is a little bit of filler for you church off, it's a little bit of a different story. But you know what I mean, kind of like all over a little bit in the cheeks a little bit the jawline, a little bit in the nasal label, and then a little bit of tightening, which you can do with different lasers. Right. And that's going to help you look like really what you're supposed to look like yourself.

Amy:17:29

Yeah, and it's funny, she was saying that except to do it with a surgery with fat but but use the fat as a filler and then doing laser. And then she said it will look really natural. I don't know if I'm like ready to do that whole thing. I might just try filler again. But do you find that if people have sort of like a ridge or like a little bit of a fat pocket underneath their eyes that when they do filler it like can make it look worse. So or is that just like me being crazy not being crazy

Dr. Nazarian:17:55

at all. First of all, the patient has never generally knows their face really, really, really, really well. Right. So that's really what it comes down to. So when people have both problems, right, meaning you have a ridge and you have a fat pad, the goal is never to put any filler under the fat pad ever. And you never want any filler like around the fat pad where it can kind of push out, what you're trying to do is it's a lot easier if I could show you but imagine this in your face in your head, you really just put the filler only into that deep rich, that's it. And so what you're doing is not touching that pad where you're trying to get that valley below it to be filled in a little bit. So it just masks it in camouflage is it better, right? You know, when you have both problems holding out and that puffiness, you can only do filler for a little bit and you will lose the battle eventually and have to get the bluff. Because ultimately that fat pad continues to push out, you can't keep putting tons of filler in there, right to your point, you only get to try you have that particular and this is why you have to always be evaluated to see if you're a good candidate for something or not. But you can only put a little bit of filler in there to a certain point and then at some point that that that peg gets a little bit too big, you have to say you know what, I can't keep chasing it. Now, you got to have that fat pad taken out as you as it continues to grow up. But you know, I see people with both often I tell them, we can do a little bit but you got to stay far away from that fat pad literally just into that little hollow in that valley. And the goal is not to change the fat pad, but to just blend it into the rest of the face nicely. That's what you're trying to do.

Amy:19:37

And you have to go to someone good because I think that I've only done it once and the first person I went to she was okay. I think I would go to this new person I'm seeing because I think she would be more. I think she would be more like you like really gentle with it because I feel like I could see it a little bit. And I felt like maybe she just put too much in or like didn't do it in the way that's more natural because I felt like when I smiled you could see it a little bit or at least I could Yeah little bit but so interesting like slime could ask you to bore everybody else. But I think that's why my doctor was like, Yeah, at the end of the day, you're gonna want to get this. Like, it's not like you need it right this second, but I know it bothers you if you want to, like just nip it in the bud. She's like, just do that. Because that's eventually what people that have that issue do so yeah.

Dr. Nazarian:20:24

So funny though, to two patients that I see has like this one thing that they just wish they could change about themselves that I'm going to tell you right now is like, a one on a scale of one to 10 You know, in terms of like, really how bad it is, like I have a patient that I saw, just like maybe an hour ago, two hours ago, I guess now. And like, she's been chasing her ugly neck and I put this in quotes because she's like, the most beautiful for like, at least like eight years now. Okay. And she there's nothing wrong with that. But she feels like it's just aging her and it's sagging, and she feels like it's it's a fat pad and whatever it is. And I'm telling you, she has a beautiful neck. But we have spent an awful lot of time trying to tweak it and make it how she feels is perfect. So she's not imagining what she's seeing. It's there. I get it, you know, alright, it's a little lacks. Okay, I see the wrinkle. Alright, I feel a little bit of that fat pad. But really, it's like, it's like her thing. You know what I mean?

Amy:21:19

And like, we're own harshest critic. Right. And that's one thing that

Dr. Nazarian:21:23

we don't know what it is for, you know, for you, Katie. I mean, I guess for Amy, it's gonna be the eyes. But like everyone has this like thing on their body, you know that they just hate and obsess over and you got to remember to your point. I mean, we are definitely our own worst critic. There's no way anybody else in your life notices what you're noticing to the degree that you notice.

Katie:21:46

My puffy face I get the puppy the puppy space deal.

Amy:21:57

Katie was so funny the other day she says to me when she's traveling, she got a really bad headache. And she's like, look at this picture. Doesn't it look like I have? Like I can see the headache. like, Y'all know what I'm talking about. But I gotta go. So there's like so many more things. The last thing I want to ask you about because I think you said you do body sculpting stuff. Yes, that's right. I've been reading about something called velis shape and like, I don't know if the all of these things are all the same. What is like the best one if you want to, you know, there's two things I think there's like our listeners, I'm sure you want to know about these two things like one sort of like the fat removal and then to cellulite.

Dr. Nazarian:22:38

Okay, boy, fat removal and cellulite. Alright, fine. So fat removal can be done surgically, which we know is like liposuction, right, or can be done with lasers. And there are different ways to do with lasers. Some lasers use heat, right like radiofrequency heat, I actually don't do that I do freezing. I do cool sculpting, a lot of cool sculpting. And I have to tell you, I love it. Love it, they had a sort of a second generation version that came out not that long ago. And that's when I started doing it for myself, obviously, but also for my patients. And what it does is it you know, brings the temperature of the fat down to a level where it crystallizes. And we know that that will crystallize at a different temperature than like muscle or skin or other parts of the body or different tissues of the body I should say. And when it's crystallized, which takes generally about 30 to 40 minutes depending on what area you're doing. You massage out those crystals and those crystals break your body comes and they clear it it destroys the fat cell destroys it. And so you have less fat cells there so you will not be able to accumulate as much fat in that area and it really does change or shape. So that is your new shape. At that weight, you can still gain weight, you can still put on weight and the weight will distribute however it wants to distribute a little more fairly. If you're someone who was treating your belly because you had all this fat deposited in the belly, you're not going to pause it the same way but you could still gain weight and you could still gain weight in your belly if you gained enough weight. So I you know I call sculpted and then let's say eight which is a true story and I had kids which is also true story and gained weight and then when you lose the weight I'll get back to my CoolSculpting body when I get back to that same weight but you know I had issues I didn't I didn't want my middle eastern right so I didn't like my hair shape I want like Kendall Jenner legs who doesn't so I wanted my thigh straighter and all I don't want my inner thighs touching whatever all the garbage we have in our heads that what we have to look like but you could do the chin you could do the arms you can do a lot of areas takes a few weeks to see the improvement I recommend everyone does it twice to the same area that to me is considered a true treatment. You do it once you get a lot of complainers you know once a year you sit there and show the before and after seeing you look different see before so yeah I hate that. I hate that. Once you've done it twice. I don't have to show you the before and afters anymore. It's like we're done. You know, like, I'm happy. That makes me happy makes them happy. So I tell everyone twice. You don't have to do it twice because you had a dramatic result after one great good for you. It happens fine. But you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it the right way. You know? Because I do hear a lot of people that say, Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I tried it a couple years ago, but I've actually never say never had like one maybe but she also gained weight. So I wasn't really sure but, you know, it's it's a very dependable way to get rid of those fat cells. Cellulite is a little different. And you're asking me about it at the right time because we do kind of have a little bit of a game changer that came out a few months ago called quot Q w Oh, that's actually an injectable that is used to break up those bands that pull down under the skin and create that like wrinkling. An orange peel luck of cellulite comes a little bit pain comes a little bit of bruising, but is super promising, like super promising. Really now,

Amy:26:07

is it permanent? Or is it something well, you're doing so far,

Dr. Nazarian:26:10

they're seeing some long term, improve improvement. I mean, you're maintaining these results, you know, like, I think up to a year out, and they're still looking. So I think it's, it looks really, really promising. I don't do it yet. I'm sort of sitting on the sidelines a little bit like, had patience to do it, you know, learning about it, getting trained on it, I kind of want to see some people roll out a little bit longer, which is generally how I work with this stuff. But I've had a lot of colleagues that have been using it now for long enough that, you know, I'm I'm happy to support that and recommend that. So

Amy:26:50

that's awesome. I want to look into that because that's another thing I'm always looking for treatments on because that's why I was researching this Bella shape, which I've seen, like, here and there written up in articles and it's specifically for cellulite as well. I don't know if it does just cellulite and or if it does cellulite and like sculpting I'm not sure I don't know too much about it. But I'm going to look into this quote too, because like that thigh area,

Dr. Nazarian:27:12

I gotta tell you, one of my co workers, you know, she was really eager to have it done last month. And I wasn't, wasn't ready to be the one to do it for her yet. And so we had her go to one of my colleagues and have, you know, have her get it done. And aside from some pretty hefty bruising, which is part of the deal. She's actually looking really good. You know, I tried a bunch of other stuff to get rid of that for her over the past couple years. And I wasn't having much success. And this you know, this injection seems to be, and we've been hearing about it for a while now. So I kind of knew it was gonna be a little bit a game changer. But to actually see it in action on people that I know is really exciting.

Katie:27:49

Yeah, that's exciting. That's cool. And

Amy:27:51

there's no downtime. I mean, so there's bruising, obviously, but is there like, is it like painful, it's

Dr. Nazarian:27:57

a little, you know, your muscles feel pretty sore sometimes afterwards, like you got a little like a, like a punch in the leg. And the bruising can be pretty substantial. So sometimes little bit of swelling that comes along with that. So it's not something I would do during bikini season. But you want to wait until the fall winter and

Amy:28:15

winter time activity.

Dr. Nazarian:28:16

Ugly. Exactly.

Amy:28:17

All right. I'm all about it. Okay, so we could literally talk to you forever. So like, we probably need a part two, we might be cool. I

Katie:28:24

think we need to,

Amy:28:25

we should probably start getting into our rap session.

Katie:28:27

All right. So let's do our rap session. So Dr. Nazarian, you've given us so many great tips. But what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Dr. Nazarian:28:37

Oh, my favorite wellness or beauty hack? Just streamline it. Like just you know, my hack is just getting everything into what you're already doing now and just tweak it like, I drink my antioxidant green tea at night because I was going to drink tea anyway. So why don't I drink something that has like tons of antioxidants, it makes my life more easy and helps me in the long run, right? Like when I do my, like I said my stuff in the morning, it's all infused into that one product, I'm not to think about it. Everything that I do is just a part of my day. And it doesn't feel like a chore and it's sort of like, hidden and all the other stuff. And so I just think if you can do that with everything, your diet, your skincare products, you know, your walk to work, whatever it is you just have it streamlined to something where it was all thought out beforehand. And it's good for you, you know, over the course of a lifetime, oh my god. Imagine the cumulative effect of something like that. These little tiny changes add up so much at the end of decades and decades and decades. Just remember that it's gonna happen. It's science, it's happening. You're not gonna get when the body doesn't respond to this kind of thing. You're gonna reap the benefits to have patience with it. And just trust the science just sneaking into your day. And I promise you you're good. it'd be so happy later in life.

Katie:30:02

Yeah, I love that streamlining, simplifying, just kind of making it all a little easier. Right?

Amy:30:09

Exactly. Okay, so this is what we call our five minute flow. So here's the scenario. You just got out of the shower and dried off whoever just alerted you there five minutes away. Like what is your quick beauty routine to like, what are your holy girls would you just put on to get out of the house on time and get into that? Uber? This isn't a morning this is at night. This could be any time you choose, but it's like what's that quick thing that you have to like? You just you got five minutes you got to just throw it on and go obviously we know sunscreen. What else? No. Could be body could be face.

Dr. Nazarian:30:42

Yeah. Eyelash Curler. There you go. Oh, that's good one. That's, that is you know, I put on a fancy shmancy watch. I put on you know, I take my little eyelash curler and I clamp it. And then I'm out the door. You know, I don't I don't do a lot of bling. I don't do a lot of anything. I just like you know, I work so hard on my face all the time. Your skin's

Amy:31:04

Perfect.

Dr. Nazarian:31:06

Perfect, whatever it is what it is. Thank you. But the point is, I don't have to think about it on the daily because I already put in the time. So when I jump out of that shower, a little awkward for maybe to the lips, a little clamp on my lashes. A little watch on my wrist.

Katie:31:19

I'm out the door. Nice. Yeah. Well that we love the article friend.

Amy:31:25

Yeah. And then how do you how do you maintain your daily nirvana? Because you are a busy doctor? You've got three young children, your wife? I mean, how do you kind of keep that daily peace? Well, any any anything, it

Dr. Nazarian:31:38

should be honest with you, it changes depending on my stage in life, I have realized what I could have done a few years ago with maybe even one kid, you know, maybe what I could have done with even two kids. I can't do with three and a husband Right? Like just what I did as a single girl to like really get my calm with it was go for a run or do whatever. Sometimes it just can't happen. Now the only thing that happens daily now with three kids is a shower. Right? Let me tell you, my shower. You know, even though it's not very long, is like my Nirvana it is my happy place I find water always has the ability to just calm and heal and recenter and so I take this shower, I enjoy the water coming, you know, onto my face onto my body. And I have my little products there that I use where I feel like I'm just self it doesn't feel like a chore. Maybe showering is a chore for some people. It doesn't ever feel like a chore to me. You know, I just enjoy that feeling of just like starting fresh. And that's it that's like today now like Rachel in this area now in life at this age. That is my nirvana. I sort of hope in a few years that maybe it changes and it's something else like getting rid of lighting a candle or doing my sage but right now it's just it doesn't shower.

Amy:32:57

Well that's very accessible.

Katie:32:59

And it's you know, it actually triggers your parasympathetic nervous system a nice like long peaceful shower. I mean, it's really it's a very like restful rejuvenating thing I do that to actually come

Dr. Nazarian:33:10

Yeah, yeah. But you're either gonna be that or it's gonna be me attacking myself with a laser and needles which happens in the office down masochistic, so I'm gonna go with a shower. Nice.

Amy:33:25

I love it. So we've kept you like forever but we're just two quick things before we wrap up so Katie so we typically do like a quick what we're loving product review at the end of the episode so Katie has something to share with us and then I have a closing mantra. Yeah, so

Katie:33:39

I am excited. Hey, what

Amy:33:40

do you have a very good product review

Katie:33:42

I'm doing it this time. Usually Amy does it but I found these two new products that I'm obsessed with. It's the Charlotte Tilbury supermodel eyebrow kit. I have like very very sparse eyebrows and I always have to fill them in and it's I've always had a really hard time finding the right product to do it with but these are amazing. The reason why I love it. The tip of the pencil is like angle and very thin and it's it's made from Konoba wax. I think I'm saying that right so it comes on like very, very feather fine. It literally looks like you're putting like another eyebrow Heron and other eyebrow hair and I mean it's really it's just the way that it goes in is so so smooth. This is called the brow lift pencil. It's $25 it comes in eight shades, smudge proof, humidity proof, it's great. And then I finish it with the brow fix sculpting gel and this is $23 and this is a 24 hour lasting clear brow gel that will condition your eyebrows it sets it and it's invisible. It doesn't like flake or anything. When I'm like you know not necessarily going out or just kind of want a casual look I'll go without this but if I really wanted to set and check kind of like pop I added the bra effect so I am absolutely obsessed obsessed with it. It's a really, really good one. You know the whole like, like thick, very full eyebrow that all the supermodels have right now like that's,

Amy:35:09

I love it. Yeah, I love that. So give it to me. Yeah. So you can so it looks so I bought that I haven't used it yet because I wanted to hear Can you talk about it so you just like kind of go against your eyebrow and it kind of just yes it in and you just do

Katie:35:21

like, like roll it up the littlest bit and then you just kind of go like, where where you're sparse in. And then I noticed that actually, if I do it with my left hand on my right eyebrow, it doesn't look right. I have to like switch hands. And because you have to go in the direction of the browser. That's, that's the trick. So and then it has this little while your brows look amazing. So little brush on the end where

Amy:35:44

I'm gonna, I'm gonna try that. It's a good one.

Katie:35:48

What's your mantra? Amen. Amen. We need a good one. You have one for us.

Amy:35:51

Yes. So to close out. And before we close out, just want to say thank you so much, Dr. Nazarian, for giving us so much time, we definitely want to have you back because we have like a million more questions. But we'd love, love, love, love all the information you gave us. I think it'll be so helpful to our listeners. And it was definitely helpful for us. So we really appreciate your time and your energy, we just your whole lighting.

Dr. Nazarian:36:12

You guys are so sweet. It's been such a joy to be on and so much fun talking about everything and love to come back. I think that's the one thing about dermatology, a little bit of a black hole is always something that you want to talk about. There's always more to know. So thank you so much. Yeah, it's been a blast.

Amy:36:27

Oh, thank you. Great. So I'm going to ends with something because we've been talking about, you know, our skin and all the things that we want to fix. And at the end of the day, here's a mantra that I think I need to tell myself and we probably all do, which is become so confident in who you are that no one's opinion, rejection or behavior can rock you. So it's like, don't listen to what anybody else is saying. And even sometimes what you're saying to yourself because I was thinking about it, I'm complaining about this and that but at the end of the day, if you're confident and you like feel good in your skin, nothing else matters. So I think it's really important to remind ourselves and our audience that at the end of the day, you just got to feel good. You got to feel good about yourself. So

Dr. Nazarian:37:08

true. Thank you for that reminder, Amy.

Amy:37:12

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 22 - 8 Hot Topics in Skin Right Now with Board Certified NYC Dermatologist Dr.Rachel Nazarian - Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 22.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Welcome to Nirvana sisters Nirvana sisters family. We are so excited to have Dr. Rachel Nazarian with us today. Welcome Dr. Nazarian. We have been wanting to have an amazing dermatologist on the show for a long time. So we're so happy that we got in touch with you to be able to spend time with us today and ask all of our crazy questions to you. So welcome to the show. A little background on Dr. Nazarian is she is a board certified dermatologist seeing patients in New York City she practices various aspects of dermatology including cosmetic treatments, lasers and injectables skin cancer screenings, general dermatology, dermatologic surgery and body contouring Dr. Nazarian has written many published articles in medical journals as well as widely respected dermatology textbooks such as treatment of skin disease and bukas emergencies in dermatology. Hopefully, I said that, right. You are a faculty member at Mount Sinai Medical Center's Department of Dermatology and you are written up in tons of different magazines and articles I've seen you quoted in media print TV, I saw you recently in an article and well and good and Vogue, and Harper's Bazaar, and new beauty and Pop Sugar, and so many more. So thank you for being on the show. Very excited to have one introduction and

Dr. Nazarian: 1:54

an intro. Yeah, I was like listening to God, that's why I'm tired. What would I what have I been doing? But you know what, it's it's all so much fun. And I love what I do. And I love talking about what I do. So I'm happy to go through the whole spiel, whatever you want to talk about, please ask me, it's what I do all day long with my patients. And honestly, it very, very, very rarely gets old. That's the great thing about this specialty. There's always new stuff coming out and new things to talk about. And it's just so exciting and fun.

Amy: 2:22

That's so awesome. Well, we can't wait to get into it. But before we do, we want to take a step back and do our nirvana of the week, which is really just when we talk about something positive, something great that brought us joy over the last week that just kind of made us take a step back because we're all so busy and crazy, especially after everything is sort of open now and everyone got back to running around. It's like good to take that step back and think about something little or big that give us joy. So I'll let Katie do her Nirvana, and then I'll know Thanks,

Katie: 2:49

Amy. Well, thank you Dr. Nazarian. For being here. We're really excited. So we appreciate it. But my weekly Nirvana I would say this week happened yesterday. We, for many reasons, my family and I, we haven't had much time to really enjoy the summer yet. So yesterday, we had like our first family fun summer day, we were at the pool all day and the kids were swimming for I think, honestly, eight hours. And don't worry we had on SVF and a lot of it, but it was it was great. It was just a lot of fun. Just to like you know, not think about anything besides fun. We really needed it. So that so that was that was mine. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 3:26

That's good. Oh, I thought you were gonna say putting contract on your house. But I guess that's another episode. We'll have to hear about that. I know. It's been a journey for you. So I have to so my kids actually left her sleepaway camp yesterday, so or not yesterday. What's today? Yeah, they love Saturday. And so that was a little bit bittersweet. I was so happy for them. But also it was kind of this weird feeling. But now we're kind of getting back into the swing and they're having a blast. So that's good. But I guess before they left, we did a night we went to the pool. And it was sort of during that golden hour where the weather's just perfect. And it wasn't planned. We just sort of went last minute and they were swimming and we just like ate there. But not even at a table just at our beach chairs. And it was just one of those casual nights. But one of those that you sort of are like, I'm so appreciative of like my sweet family. It was just a really great moment before they left and then another little one last night, all the fireflies are starting to come out in my neighborhood. So I went outside last night to do something and they just like literally got stopped because I looked up at the trees and they were so dark. But there were all these fireflies like lighting up and it was so beautiful. And all of our cicadas are now gone. So that was great. So that was just like a little spark of Nirvana that happened last night. What about you doctrine is their

Dr. Nazarian: 4:43

mind is really interesting. So the last couple of weeks, I've been thinking he's from Miami, my husband and I've been saying to him, God, you know what movie I want to watch. I want to watch the birdcage. You know, it takes place in South Beach, right? I only want to watch the bird cage. I just really feel like I haven't seen it in years. You know, I've forgotten most of what it's about. But remember the basic premise and And I was flipping through a television, I had a rough day flipping through the TV. And miraculously, it just happened to be on and just happened to have just started like I was like maybe 30 minutes, 30 seconds and a minute in and I called my husband we sat down we watch this movie that had been like begging the universe verse For for weeks now. I have never laughed this hard. I have seen this movie like, years ago, right. But for whatever reason, it was like so appropriate for today for like here and now in the world, politically, whatever. It it just made I think I had like stomach pains from laughing so hard at Robin Williams and like this whole brilliant cast. But I was so grateful for these two hours where I was just absorbed in this movie, and just loving life and laughing at it and just having a really good time. It was like the most therapeutic two hours I've had in a very, very long time. That sounds so good.

Amy: 5:50

Oh, I love Yeah, that's so great. I gotta watch that again. I haven't seen that in years. And that's so cool. I love that that manifested for you and that you enjoyed it. That's so great. Yeah, that's so great. Good. I love it. Okay, so we're gonna get into some quick fire questions before we before we get into it. So tell us a little bit about your background and how long you've been practicing dermatology and what your specialty is sure.

Dr. Nazarian: 6:14

So you kind of touched on it a little bit. I do medical and cosmetic and surgical dermatology. So basically, I do the basic stuff. You know, the skin checks, looking at moles trying to find skin cancers, acne, psoriasis, eczema, all the skin diseases we are trained to do as dermatologist but in medical school, we have MDs, we are physicians, so medicine first. And then of course, you know, you when you have healthy skin, you have beautiful skin. So the cosmetic aspect is so intertwined. And these, you know, these days, I do an awful lot of cosmetics too. And that includes lasers and lights and injectables like the different toxins and fillers, and then surgical. So if I find a skin cancer, we want to take those skin cancers out so we do surgeries to remove them. Sometimes people have things like cysts and little tumors like like pomos, we take those out as well. And it makes me feel like I am a tiny little bit like the rest of my family, which is made up of all surgeons, cardiac surgeons, bariatric surgeons, orthopedic surgeons. And so a little bit of my day is basically dedicated to being my version of a surgeon to dermatologic surgeon, so I enjoy all of it. And and like I said, I feel like every year there's something new that comes out and something else that I have to learn. And so that's a part of my job, too, is just keeping up to date with what's happening in medicine.

Katie: 7:38

Nice. And how long have you been practicing?

Dr. Nazarian: 7:41

Well, a little shy of a decade formally, but actually I was involved in dermatology since I was about 19. I was working in dermatology offices working in the lab grossing slides, Gaussian slides, for people that don't know is when you do a biopsy, and you take that little specimen of tissue, like a mole or whatever else you're looking to examine. It actually has to be processed soy processing, Matt, where I grew up in, outside of Dallas, Texas, and then spent summers also working with dermatologists did a little bit of research into amount of pathology and dermatology. So really, I feel like I've been doing this since I was 19. Because I started that when I was 19. And I still have so much more to learn, which tells you a lot about what's going on in dermatology.

Amy: 8:20

Yeah, it seems like there's always something new every time you turn around. But you don't always know. You know if it's real or not, because there's just so much out there, right?

Dr. Nazarian: 8:28

There is so much out there. Once in a while I'll see an ad or I'll read something in a magazine or see something online. And it's about this like miracle product or this like miracle ingredient, you know, that I've like never heard of. And you have to check yourself a little bit. Because you think how can I how can I not? You know, maybe I do maybe I don't know, maybe I'm not keeping up with it well enough or fast enough. And so if you look in and I will tell you, you know, 99% of the time, it's an awful lot of marketing gimmicks and new hype and clickbait that's out there, which makes me feel so bad for the consumer. Because the uneducated consumer, yeah, frankly, the consumer that's trying to educate themselves can be misled so easily for marketing. And you could walk into a big box beauty store. And even as a dermatologist I go in and I'm kind of wooed by these products, because they're just packaged so beautifully. They promise so much. And I have to remind myself, we just can't look at the label and trust the science. This is not you know, this is not what they're saying it is. But God the urges so strong because they do such a good job of presenting it to the consumer. Yeah, absolutely.

Amy: 9:37

Yeah, we have so many questions about those sorts of things as we get into this.

Katie: 9:41

So let's start off right away then let's get right into it. It's summer. We're right in the middle of it. S P F, tell us why is it important but not only in the summer? I assume you have your patients use it year round. And what's what's the reason for that?

Dr. Nazarian: 9:59

Well, can you say Question. You know, people when they think of sunscreen, they think of just sun. And when they think of sun, they think of summer. And so they assume they don't have to work the rest of the year. The reason that that is really a dangerous way to go through a year is that even though you're not getting as much sun, this is or is not as warm, I should say, this is not a temperature issue, this is a radiation issue. And radiation is present to some degree year round. And when it comes to sun damage, and skin damage, it's cumulative. So even if you're getting a minute a day, or 30 seconds a day, at the end of the year, you're getting hours and hours of exposure to radiation. That is why people look at when they're at, it's because they have 80 years of sun. And so if you can only protect yourself half the year, you're frankly still getting enough radiation that it's going to add up at some point, but you're still leaving yourself vulnerable to free radical damage, maybe not a sunburn, but free radical damage and skin cancer the rest of the year. Also, you know, these days, when people are indoors, they sometimes neglect to put on their sunscreen. And that's also a bad way to go through life. Because although UV B is kind of what people usually think about when they think about protecting themselves from the sun, because that's what prevents the sunburn. UVA actually travels through light and glass. So if you're working in an office space that has windows, you're still getting radiation through. And if the idea of getting a skin cancer doesn't scare you enough, let me remind you UVA is actually what ages you. So that's what's going to give you those wrinkles and those sunspots and those large pores. So for a multitude of reasons, you really need to put that sunscreen as a part of your daily regimen just like brushing your teeth would be just like washing and moisturizing would be so multitask. Right? So rather than have to think about like 10 different things to put on. Just make sure your sunscreen your moisturizer or one or for me, your sunscreen, your moisturizer, your anti aging cream, orange one. And that way, you're always going to feel naked without it I am uncomfortable when I leave the house without protection. So don't think about it too much. Just kind of sneak it into your regimen that will make it easier even if you have a simple regimen. It's got to have SPF in there.

Katie: 12:12

What do you say to people that say, Well, it's a cloudy day, it's raining? I don't see the sun? Do I still need it?

Dr. Nazarian: 12:17

Everybody knows the story of somebody who was outdoors all day, and it wasn't Sunny, and they just didn't put on sunscreen. I mean, how many times have you heard that I heard all day long, right? And they got burned, they didn't realize they got burned. Radiation goes through clouds. So don't be fooled by the temperature or what it looks like just protect yourself. And also sun damage comes in different forms. People are looking for that burn. But some people actually have very low, like many people actually have low levels of sun allergy. So maybe they're not burning, but they just feel a little dry and itchy from the radiation emits radiation, right? So people get when they have breast cancer, it's radiation is the same thing. So you know, look for those subtle signs that you're not doing your skin any favors, that you're not doing a good enough job protecting your skin, it'll it'll remind you. So I think the more you now the more cautious you'll be our job is to educate people. But eventually, maybe we will use your first little wrinkle. That's usually when it starts when you start to notice your ports get a little big, maybe that's when it starts. But there's something that will motivate you, it tends to be more cosmetic than medical and that's fine. I'll use whatever motivation I can. But you will be motivated to put on your sunscreen daily, cloudy or not.

Amy: 13:28

Yeah, and I can relate to that big time because I got my first basil. So when I was like, young, like 30, or something I remember was like, a couple years after I got married, and I was freaking out and I've gotten like 10 Since I mean I've had them everywhere. So ever since my first basal cell, Game Changer sunscreen every day I sit in the shade. Katie knows I'm like a grandma, I will not be in the shade. And I will not be in the sun in the sun always a hat. I'm like, so paranoid about it. Because I've had so many. I don't know, from being fair being in the sun genetics. I mean, my dad is actually dark complected. But he's gotten a bunch of basal cells too. But yeah, so I'm super aware of it. But I feel like even though it's talked about so much still, most people are not thinking about it as much. And it's interesting that you say it's radiation, I never really think of it that way. Just think of it as like bright light and heat, but not the radiation part, which makes you feel like wow, I really need to put it on. So do you recommend putting on SPF before everything else or after because I never know.

Dr. Nazarian: 14:28

That's because it's different depending on what you're using. I think this is a part of the problem too is that there's different ways to protect yourself from the sun. And there's different ingredients and there's different vehicles that they come in meaning. So a vehicle would be like a cream versus a lotion versus a serum versus a spray versus an oil, right. There's just so many different forms of them, and that determines its place in your regimen. Most sunscreens would go on last like let's say you're gonna wash your face, you're gonna pat you know Pat dry, you're gonna moisture eyes, you would put on your sunscreen. And the only thing that would go on after that is maybe a little bit of makeup. That's how most of them work. But you know, there's powder form that you would also just do last even after you do makeup, you would want that to sit on top, the big classifications for sunscreen come in mineral or physical versus chemical write chemical needs to be absorbed into the skin. And it works by changing that radiation into a different form typically heat versus a physical or mineral which acts by shield, you know, it's basically a physical blockers where it gets its name from and reflects the radiation away from your face. They work in different ways. They are both wonderful. But also depending on which one of those you're using, it may change how you apply it. I say when in doubt, just, you know, put it on after your moisturizer and you should be just fine.

Katie: 15:51

Do you have a favorite sunscreen? Okay, that you Yeah, what's your what do you what's your go to?

Dr. Nazarian: 15:56

So for me, I change every few years, you know, I've evolved. So I had to do a starter sunscreen, as I call it, which is just like super lightweight and feels like absolutely nothing and disappears and don't even know you're wearing it. And that's how I started because as somebody who doesn't really wear makeup, I didn't like the feel of anything on my face. I hated it. And so that was Elta MD UV Clear which is like a cult favorite in the dermatology world. Okay, super easy, simpler. As I got older, it actually wasn't motivating enough. Even for me as a dermatologist to just have sunscreen. I just didn't feel like I wanted to put it on during the day. And so I switched to something that is made by a brand called revision. It's revision true physical. I love this. I love this for a number of reasons. One is because actually the base is an anti aging cream that always motivates me to put it on. It has a high SPF and it's a little bit tinted. So it goes on kind of like this beautiful sheer tent, it covers everything, I don't have to do anything else. I put on a vitamin Sam, I put on my sunscreen, I'm out the door, and it is everything in one, I'm like a mama of three, I don't have time to do anything. So it goes on about the door. I'm super, super happy. What I recommend for my patients, it really depends on what they want. I don't think patients realize that this the sunscreen game has evolved so much that there's really cosmetically elegant options out there for everything, whatever you want, you can tell me whatever you want, I will find you essentially that is curated for those issues, redness, dryness, anti aging, wrinkles, you know, discoloration, you want something lightweight, do you want something that has little dewy look, you want something matte, whatever you want, you tell me I know what's out there, I will, you know, point you into the right direction. And I will help you find something you are obsessed with it because that's my goal, I want you to be really motivated to do it. And if anti aging motivates you, which it generally does, this way, you know, for men, if super lightweight, and pretend it's not even they're motivated to let you go. So that's where I am now your physical. That's amazing.

Katie: 18:03

Yeah,

Amy: 18:03

I love that I'm gonna have to follow up with you to get some of those recommendations. And we'll put it in our social media feed for our listeners, because that's such a I never thought about it that way because there's certain ones that I like and certain ones Katie likes, but I never thought about it based on like, if you're dry or for this, you just kind of grabbed the one that feels the best. But it's actually interesting to think about I'm gonna have to check out.

Katie: 18:23

I didn't even know that was off good to know, had sunscreens for XYZ, you know, I just thought it was like one thing kind of across the board. So yeah, that is great to know. Tell us a little bit about Helio care and how does it fit into your daily skincare regimen.

Dr. Nazarian: 18:41

So Helio care is something that I caught on to many years ago. It is a supplement, it can turn it contains Fern extract. This is like a fern that comes out of Costa Rica. And it is really exclusively grown and processed by this company. It's actually patented with this firm block technology, right, and I'll tell you why that's important too. But the purpose of this is to make you really a little bit less sensitive to sunlight. So I used to give it to patients that would get like sun allergies in which a lot or had some sensitive conditions like lupus or melasma, which is discoloration you get in the sun. And it was just part of my treatment regimen. It's actually been around for a very long time published immensely in the medical journals. Most dermatologists know about it, but it also helps neutralize free radical damage because it's just filled with antioxidants, right? And so when you're thinking about your skin aging, that you always think about ultraviolet radiation, but this is completely flawed thinking because we know that your skin will age worse in a city environment than it would in a country environment right. Just due to other free radical damaging agents, whether it's pollution and smoking and all this other stuff like visible light all those things ages. It just colors our skin then it breaks down on collagen, it breaks down the elastin. And it just makes us look saggy and baggy and old with time. And so you actually need more than just sunscreen to protect your skin from aging. Right sunscreen protects us from sun. But like I said, there's so many other things that will cause oxidative stress and free radical damage. So I started taking Helio care for that purpose. I mean, I consider it something that kind of really helps my sunscreen in some way, but also protects me against all the other aspects of what I consider to be aging factors in the environment. And I mean, I just can't speak highly enough about it. You know, I just started working with this company this past year. And, you know, I still don't know why it's not like insanely popular. I don't know, I don't know what it is. You know, I've spoken to a lot of dermatologist about it. We're like, is it the packaging? I guess it's kind of boring. You know, I don't know what it is. But boy, my whole family is on it. My husband's on it. I have like, literally, this is my desk or sitting at the office. It's sitting right here, just in case I actually forget it before I leave the house. I have it here.

Amy: 21:07

Do you just take one a day,

Dr. Nazarian: 21:09

I mean, you actually can take to what I normally do is I'll take one and then if I plan on being out again during the day, like if I'm walking around on the weekends, I'll take another one about an hour later on vacation, I definitely will take two if I'm like, pulled someplace on and I get like forced to go to the beach, I'll always have it there. And then I just take one a day normally when we know before I come to the office, like when I'm dropping the kids off at school, there's like a little bit of a walk there as well. And so now it's just part of my daily routine.

Amy: 21:38

So the recommendation would be to use Helio care, and obviously your SPF. So it's like the internal and the external in a way. And with something like that help with basal cells, like would it be beneficial to take that if you're prone to getting basal cells like I am? Yeah,

Dr. Nazarian: 21:55

so that's a great question. I mean, the closest I can say is free radical damage can cause skin cancers. Here, the oak hair helps neutralize free radical damage. Does that make sense? So in my mind, yeah. Right. So in other words, right. I mean, not only can I not hurt, I do feel like it helps a lot. There's another version of Helio care actually, that contains a form of vitamin B called niacin amide. That actually, we have many studies in the medical literature that shows that does help prevent against skin cancers. And so if I have a patient that is prone and has many skin cancers in the past, or I think has a higher risk of building skin cancers, I'll actually recommend that for them. They have another version called Heliocare Ultra that has extra antioxidants in it, that's really, in some ways, I think of it more as like a anti aging booster supplement. If you think about supplements, though, it's really important to remember that it's not FDA regulated, right? This is not considered like a medication, it's considered an extract a supplement. And so any company can just like, say they're doing the same thing and get that plant and kind of grind it up. But you can't do that when it comes to your own health. So I don't like doing random knock offs, or whatever it is because I don't even know what part of the plant they're using. Right? Like the whole plant doesn't have the same level of actives. The leaves have the important part, that's really what protects it from the sun. And Costa Rica is what allows this plant to stay so viable in really difficult, arid, dry conditions sometimes, right, that's what makes it stay so healthy and strong. If you're gonna grind up the root and put it in a pill, not gonna do the same thing. So I'm really adamant with my patients that, you know, we don't experiment when it comes to extracts and supplements. I only want the stuff that's been studied, I only want the thing that's in the medical journal. So you know, that's that's Helio care. And you know, just one other thing you can do you eat healthy too, you want the right antioxidants in your diet, you want the right anti inflammatory things in your diet, you're going to know if you're treating your body poorly, and your skin is going to show if you're treating it really well and that means from the outside and also means from the inside.

Katie: 24:08

It's so true because I have definitely been not doing my best lately with my diet stress eating a little bit and I can see it I see it like all over my face. I see it in like the little dehydration wrinkles that sometimes I haven't sometimes I don't have and like you know, when your face is like inflamed or so I really can't see it in your face, and then you break out more. And all of that can be linked right back to everything you're consuming. Right?

Dr. Nazarian: 24:35

Absolutely. The skin shows everything. I mean, it really is just a reflection of what's happening on the inside, how you're feeling and how you're treating yourself. Whether you're sleeping, whether you have a good diet, whether you're getting enough water, whether you're giving it the right tools to defend itself, which is a huge part of it. I mean, if you're just going to go eat whenever you wanted and then go to sleep and you never brushed your teeth. Think about what happened. to your teeth, they would literally degrade with cavities, right? You would lose them. Your skin requires the same amount of self care and maintenance otherwise, if you're not giving it what it needs to protect itself, it falls apart. And you know that because when you look at beautiful skin, it looks so healthy, it like glows, doesn't it? And when you're looking at somebody who doesn't take care of themselves, you can see it in their face. There's nobody that doesn't take care of themselves that has this like gorgeous, you know, glowy skin. There's just some things you can't fake. Right? I love that.

Amy: 25:30

Yeah, I totally agree. And I'm so it's like, the older I get, the more I'm noticing people's skin and like obsessed with getting my skin to be clear and even. And that kind of moves on to the next thing we wanted to talk to you about is how to even out skin tone because there's all this talk about Retton on retinoids, and Trent Nolan and all this stuff. And can you break down for us like, what it is the difference is what we should and shouldn't do. I started experimenting with a retinoid but like I don't really know much about it. I just feel like there's so much information, it's hard to know what it is and what it's for and all of that if you could just give us the one on one on that we'd love it. This is the

Dr. Nazarian: 26:10

one of the simplest part of the anti aging regimen is the retinoid. Okay? So retinoids are vitamin A derivatives, that's all they are vitamin A derivatives. And we know that this class of vitamin A derivatives can stimulate collagen, and stimulate cell turnover and help give you fresh, healthy, new skin. So if you think about it, old skin is kind of like damaged skin, new skin is healthy and youthful looking. And so if you can get that cell to turnover faster, create new skin cells stimulate more collagen, replace the old tissue, it's going to look beautiful, and youthful and young, right? Full of bounce less wrinkles, smaller pores, smooth, even off the tone, because you're getting rid of the old skin cells. That's your retinoid. That's just a that is a just umbrella term for everything else that we're going to talk about right now. Got it, Retinol is an active form that you can get over the counter. So you'll find a lot of products at your local drugstore will contain retinol, which is also also a vitamin A derivative, we're still talking about the same class, but has to be converted to retinoic acid in the skin after it's been absorbed. So it's weaker, it takes longer to get to the active form. It's more gentle, right, it's not going to dry you as much. But you're also not going to see the improvement as quickly you will see improvement. It's not that is not going to work, it will work. But because it's inactive, and it's a couple steps away and that that sort of pathway. It's just you know, it's not as dramatic sometimes, that's all Trent know in which you also mentioned, Trent Nolan is actually a prescription retinoid that is closer to the active form. So when you put that on your scan, you actually start to see the improvement sooner, it's a little bit more dramatic, it is closer to the form that actually does something it's a little bit farther down the pathway. The downside to that, of course is that retinoids have an adjustment period where your skin has to get used to them because they're getting the cells to turnover faster and they're doing what they need to do they shut down the oil glands a little bit. And so if you are too aggressive with your retinoid use, your skin's gonna feel a little bit dry, it might even freak out a little bit get red, you could flare an underlying condition like Rosae show if you use it, you know too much too fast. But if used properly, tiny little bit to the whole face couple times a week, maybe mix it with moisturizer, you know ease in like dip your toe in a little bit with the retinol even if it's treading on your skin actually will often adapt beautifully and with time will get used to it and then with time will show its benefit. So, you know, there's really no downside to being on a retinoid you know, we don't really recommend them or prescribe them if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. Although I will tell you the caveat to that if you're really up to date on your literature. Actually, there is a third generation retinoid that is safe in pregnancy and breastfeeding. So I do recommend that and I certainly did that for myself for all three of my babies. So you know, we grow and we evolve and there's something for everyone. But I do think on some level, a retinoid should be somewhere in your regimen there is just literally no reason for it not to be and just like you were saying about sunscreens how to pick the right sunscreen. I can do the same thing with a retinoid you can tell me what your skin issues are in the sense of like, do I have rotation? Do I have eczema? Do I have dry skin I try to write and I freaked out once, whatever. And I will give you the right retinoid to use that will be tolerable. I really have yet to find someone that hasn't been able to tolerate at least one of the retinoids that I recommend.

Amy: 29:54

Yeah, we're definitely gonna follow up with you on that too because so it sounds like you should do Some sort of retinoid, it's a pm treatment, right? You do it at night correct. And then someone would do either a retinol or retinol and they wouldn't do both because essentially, it's the same thing. One's just stronger than the other. Exactly.

Dr. Nazarian: 30:14

So there's no need to do both. You can start retinol if you really want to use it and get used to that and then move on to a prescription strength retinoid like Trent No. And if you want or, you know, actually now they have a prescription strength, retinoid over the counter even right because adapalene is in like proactive MD It's like used to be prescription now it's over the counter. So it's there. But you could ease into it slowly see how your skin does make sure that you don't have an issue don't get too dry. But yes, so what you would do really, if you want to have like this perfect skincare regimen is you start your morning by washing your face, very gently, having dry, and then what you would do is you would put on a vitamin serum of sorts, which would be your antioxidant, right? That's neutralize free radicals damage topically, put on your sunscreen, I take my Heliocare and then in the evening, you wash your face, you pat dry, you put on your retinoid of choice, and maybe a couple other things that hopefully all come in one. One products, you're not putting on 15 different products like the Koreans do, we're American, we want like the multitasker, right, like one or two. And thankfully, we have those products that do everything we want in one. So I put on another product that has you know, antioxidants and peptides and both factors and all these other things that we also no helps with anti aging. I mean, anti aging, to me is kind of the dumbest term ever. Because what does that even mean? Doesn't mean anything when the anti aging was aging mean, right? When you're talking about skin, it's actually broken down on many different levels, right, it's your skin is drying out more, you have discoloration, you have some redness, maybe some browns, you're losing collagen, you know, you've lost elasticity there, like actual pathways that have been taking place in your skin that when you put it all together makes you look old. So when you're anti aging, this is not just like one thing that you're trying to fix, you're trying to fix all those different parts of the skin. This is an organ that have all now shifted as you've gotten older and are reacting to the stressors from the environment. So you want things that help you maintain moisture and hold on to moisture and help stimulate collagen and elastin and help remove the pigment and help smooth the skin and, and there really is no magic bullet for that as close as retinoids come. They don't do everything right. So you really want to make sure you're addressing different aspects of the anti aging picture as we put it.

Amy: 32:39

Yeah, I wish I knew about retinoids earlier I really I like learned about it, I guess over the last six months or so. And I started using this brand called the ordinary you know that brand. And I can't remember how much it is the Sochi point. 5% Yeah, it's super cheap. And it's I heard it was good. But I didn't know there's all these different percentages. And I was just like, I'll just get this one because it seems like a lower percentage. Is it? Is there a cap that like an over the counter versus prescription? How do you know what concentration? Or what percent reality

Dr. Nazarian: 33:15

is, is even forgot even the over the counter, even in the prescription world? Honest to goodness, it doesn't really matter. I mean, the dirty secret with a lot of the stuff is that most of the time the patent is running out on a brand. And they need something else to patent. Right. And so then they go from like, you know, whatever it is point oh, five 2.06. Okay. Does it really, really, really matter? No, of course, it doesn't matter. It doesn't make a huge difference. No, it's literally the same thing. But they have to kind of create these new, proprietary patented percentages in order to stay branded, you know, in order to justify whatever price for something that is exclusive. Right. And so that's where you see all these different numbers popping out in medicine, and even frankly, over the counter. It doesn't really make a difference to me. It's over the counter. And then it's prescription. And I have patients that come in and they said oh, I've been doing like the you know, the point oh, five now for a year. Can I go to the point one, you know, and I'm thinking of, you know, it's like not even worth the argument anymore. Like but to me, it's more like the Joe was a little bit stronger than the cream, like that kind of stuff. Alright, fine, a little bit more no better absorption, or certain classes of retinoids first generation second third,

Amy: 34:36

you know, sometimes work a little bit differently. Yeah, mine's like a serum. Right? That

Dr. Nazarian: 34:39

tends to be So yours is over the counter. Right? This is the ordinary over the comfortable. Yeah, it's like a drop and like serum, they tend to be a little bit more potent. Don't even worry about the percentage. I think it's gonna be really gentle. I love the ordinary. Mostly because you said oh, it's low or something. That's it. Oh, yeah, it's cheap, right. That was like I wasn't even thinking of the percentage I was thinking of the price. Because that's actually the thing I love the most about this company. They make good products. But also they're just, they're just so reasonably priced and like rationally price like there are some things that are worth shelling out for. I shell out for them. There's some things that are expensive, and they're just expired, but they're worth every penny. But then there's some things that are, like expensive, and they're supposed to be cheap. And like, why aren't they cheap, they should be so cheap for people. And these companies just like inflate the price. So I like the ordinary, I've been impressed with their stuff, I'm happy and I'm super happy with their price point because that means everyone should be able, hopefully, to do something like that, or add it to their regimen.

Amy: 35:34

So you could start doing retinoids as young as you want, like theirs is What's the age people should start age

Dr. Nazarian: 35:40

does a lot of people aren't retinoid, really, really young for acne, right? Because we use it to treat acne too. You can even put them on babies. I mean, you know, you could do it for whatever age you want. Now, from an anti aging standpoint, I find if you're old enough to ask about it, you're old enough to use it. Right? You know, I think I'm not I'm not so negotiable with the sunscreen, I think that everyone should be wearing sunscreen, you know, six months older, if you're going to be outdoors, throw a little something on. But I think we've retinoids I don't think 20 is too young. I think you got to preserve what you have, you know, it's a lot harder to repair your skin a lot harder to repair your skin, it is a heck of a lot easier to preserve what you have. Plus it always looks better when you've preserved what you've gotten naturally than trying to recreate the way you were which can't be done. It's just expensive and exhausting, you know, but

Amy: 36:30

Right. It's like, I wish I wish I knew about all the skin stuff that I know now when I was in my 20s like the only thing I was doing them like eye cream. But other than that, that's probably sunscreen here and there. And I think

Katie: 36:41

about a yawn, every single wrinkle on your face. Yeah, it's good to know that you can get these retinas for good price, I definitely overpaid on my serum that I've been using. I'm gonna go find the ordinary,

Dr. Nazarian: 36:55

sometimes honest to god, I have patients that come in and they're using like, la mayor or whatever other like major expensive, you know, skincare company product. And I don't even pull it, pull it away from it. I don't take their toys away, because I do in all tell them. It's really expensive. They don't have to use that we there are other things. And they'll say something Oh, but I like it. And I think you know what? Okay, I like that you're taking care of yourself. And I liked that they have this ritual, and they they're investing in their skin, maybe they're paying too much, but it makes them feel so good. And I think that's ultimately what you're paying for to it's not that they don't work these products, they've, some of them have good ingredients in them for sure. And I think once they've been educated to at least know that they don't have to if they don't want to, but they just like that product. They like seeing that product. They like seeing that label. You know that psychological effect. I'm okay, actually, frankly, I'm okay with that, too. I have people that pay an awful lot for super crazy expensive sunscreen. You know what, if you're gonna put it on every day, you know, we say the best sunscreen is the one you actually wear. So if you love the way it smells, and feels and looks, and you pay 200 bucks for it, and there are sunscreens that cost 200 bucks. Okay, all right with it. As long as they know.

Katie: 38:04

I've definitely had a little bit of a journey with the retinoids and everything that my doctor put me on, how do you say to know in a year ago, because I was having all of this crazy adult acne all the sudden I hadn't had acne since I was a teenager, and then it came on. And then that was too strong. For me it was I think it was like a rosacea situation like a lot of really dry patchiness. So then I've downgraded to the serum. And that's still it. I mean, you have to kind of play play with what works for your skin, don't you think? I mean, I was doing it every night. And I realized that's too much then I did a couple nights a week now I'm doing I do it one night a week. And it seems to not like overdrive me out. But do you think it's fair to say that people if you don't have a dermatologist that's directly telling you how to use it to just kind of like ease yourself in, play around with how many nights how often you should be using it?

Dr. Nazarian: 38:52

I do I think that's totally fine. I think what happened to you is really classic. People will have this underlying rosacea they're not aware of and they're treating their acne and they'll get started on the retinoid and it will flare their rosacea very, very badly, which is super distressing, especially when you came in you already upset about a couple pimples, and then to have a rosacea flare, it can be kind of devastating. Whether you're younger or older. I don't think it matters at that point. So yes, I think you know, if you don't have a dermatologist telling you how to do it, you always start just slow and low. It's not a race, it may feel like you're trying to make up for lost time, but it's not a race. And even if you can only use it once or twice a week. Great and fine with it. You know there are little tricks that you can use to try and make your skin a little more. You know, tolerable tolerable, I guess or you make the retinol a little more tolerable for your skin and that makes your skin as dry when you apply it applying it to wet skin increases absorption. Put on a moisturizer before you put on your retinoid whether it's a retinol or tretinoin mix it diluted down you know and then like I said afford once or twice a week at most. And those things will help you they will. But again, if you're not sure where to look, and you've tried everything, I promise you, there's some retinoids that have been compounded with hyaluronic acid that make it anti inflammatory and hydrating. There are some that are compounded with a whole slew of anti inflammatory antioxidants, which offset the irritation profile. So this is not a new field or new problem. And you better believe that companies have already been on this and looking for a solution for years now. So there's plenty of options out there even for sensitive skin. If you want to get started on a retinoid. That's great.

Katie: 40:37

That's great information

Amy: 40:38

you were mentioning, I want to go back when you were talking about the regimen like in the morning, and you were saying you put on a vitamin serum, what kind of vitamin like a C or what what do you suggest. So

Dr. Nazarian: 40:48

C is the most popular one, the one that I use actually has like a bunch of different types in there, including C and E. So I use this brand called skin better science, there's like a lot of studies on it, you know, we have to we trust the science and medicine always. So as much as you want to like go with a product that says like 70% of people thought they look brighter. You can't this is not the way it works in medicine, it has to be studies and clinical trials, and we need to be able to see what it's actually doing black and white. So most of the most actually, all of the products that I use fall into that category, you know, like science backed. So I use a pump of that in the morning, and it's just chock full of antioxidants, including C and E, the primary ones if we're going to try to keep it simple, and that will basically just try to neutralize free radical garbage they come in contact with during the day live in Manhattan, you know how it is. And also I'm in front of a screen with a laptop or a TV or a phone. You know, we know now that like visible light will actually impact the way your skin looks to by creating more pigment triggering melasma causing aging. Suicide not to scare anyone but so you know, I kind of put that on to think of it as like an invisible shield underneath my sunscreen.

Amy: 42:01

Do you do moisturizer than after the sunscreen? Or you do more?

Dr. Nazarian: 42:04

I actually don't? I don't moisturize because my sunscreen is. Like I said multitasking. You know, so it's it's a moisturizing anti aging tend to sunscreen. And

Amy: 42:16

yeah, the one you told at the end, okay.

Dr. Nazarian: 42:18

So there's a lot there's a lot to this, right. So it's like tinted. So if you're gonna block block visible light, right, which I just told you about how it damaged, right. So if you want to block visible light, you can only block it with something tinted, you cannot block visible light with something invisible. So as of now we have not come up with you know, we've not invented a way to block visible light with just regular invisible sunscreens that like melt into your skin. So really has to be something tinted that does that. So this covers all my bases. Plus it's a physical block or a mineral one, which, you know, it's kind of like less likely to irritate which I, which I like if your skin is a little bit sensitive. But yeah, so it's really like the way I'm deciding what to use is actually very, very well thought out for many, many reasons, even though we kind of make it sound really simple to our patients sometimes. And believe it or not, this isn't even the only sunscreen on the market that does this stuff. Like there's a lot of other options that kind of do the same thing that are tinted, that are higher SPF, their anti aging during westernizing. But one may feel a little different, one may smell a little different. So you get to kind of try and see what you like. But

Amy: 43:27

I feel like there's also conflicting information on a moisturizer with an SPF versus just a separate SPF, because you hear people say, no, just use a moisturizer and then use a separate SPF. And then some people say to combine it. So it's like you never know but I'm going to listen to what you're talking about. But it's like it's there's just so much information out there that for people I'm glad we're talking to you. Because I always was like, Oh, I don't want to get one of those mixes because I don't know if it's as works as well as if you just put regular

Dr. Nazarian: 43:59

does, you just have to make sure you're applying the right amount, right? Like it's the same thing with like your sunscreen and your makeup. That is I don't mind it. But if you're not applying enough to get the SPF on the label, which is like you know, two milligrams per centimeter squared of skin or as we like to say it now just like the two finger length rule, you kind of have to put two strips on your fingers and then use that to rub into your face and neck. And if you're not using that much of whatever you're putting on, you're not going to get the SPF that's label on the bottle and you're going to be selling yourself a little bit short. So for situations like that, if you know you're putting on enough which you should be for the stuff that feels like moisturizer, it's gonna go on like moisturizer, you're gonna be fine. There's no need for anything else. Amy is that yeah,

Katie: 44:44

that's a really good

Dr. Nazarian: 44:45

tip to finger length with two finger links about I should say. So you kind of put the strip on your two fingers here. This is for face and neck right this is for both your face and neck if you're going to be going out with Want to remember that kind of not to neglect this area under the chin, and you rub it, you'd be actually surprised at how well it goes in Rub, rub, rub, rub rub on the neck. That's it.

Katie: 45:10

Nice. That's great. I've definitely

Amy: 45:16

felt like I have either, like using a piece is good to know.

Dr. Nazarian: 45:20

I mean, it's another reason not to use low SPF right you lose, you use a low SPF and you don't play enough, you're getting even less than the SPF, you thought you were right, you're using an SPF 15 And you're applying it just weekly and lightly. What are you getting like an SPF five. But if you use a higher SPF, you know, so keep those things in mind for you.

Amy: 45:40

So what's the minimum SPF you should use like 40 or

Dr. Nazarian: 45:44

I think what you were saying before is like you don't know who to listen to there's like, the other thing that always occurs to me when people say things like this is that there's just an awful lot of people talking right now. And I think a lot of people truly feel like they have the podium and the right to speak and they know about skin but they actually don't know anything about skin. You know, these like skin experts never even studied skin. They just it's all you know, anecdotal evidence that they've tried and use and want to share their experience, but then present themselves as actual experts and it really confuses the consumer because there's so much noise because everyone wants a seat at the table. But at the end of the day honest to god just trust the physicians please just trust the physician. You know, you know, we spent like, absolutely studying this stuff. I mean, it's it's easy to think you know what's going on because you can see the skin and so everyone feels like they have this personal experience with their skin that they want to share. But there is so much going on underneath the surface. You know, it's an organ like anything else. It has its own unique immune system. It has its like what to me one of the most fascinating things in the body skin

Amy: 46:59

we hope you enjoyed part one of Dr. Nazarian this episode we found it to be very insightful. Stay tuned for part two next week where she goes through all things, dark circles under your eyes, fillers, eye surgery, body sculpting and a game changing injectable for cellulite. So stay tuned for part two next week. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 15 - Become Your Own Beauty Shaman With Shelly Marshall, Founder Of BeautyShamans Skincare (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 15 Become Your Own Beauty Shaman With Shelly Marshall, Founder Of BeautyShamans Skincare.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started.

Katie: 0:36

In today's episode, we interview Shelly Marshall the founder of beauty shamans, she is a nurse Aesthetician and an aroma therapist. Her approach to skincare is clinical clean and holistic. I really

Amy: 0:49

loved this episode, Shelly taught us so much about guasha, face reflexology, and so much more. I have used a lot of the stuff she told us specifically the guasha around the neck, which you'll find out about in this episode. She did show us guasha over our video call. And we are going to put that up on our Instagram for our listeners because I think it's really helpful to watch her do it as she's explaining it, so we'll be sure to get that up. With that said enjoy the show. Hello Nirvana sisters family welcome to the show. Today we are so excited to talk to Shelly Marshall who is the founder of Beauty Shamans. She is a skin expert on a mission to raise the vibration of people's skin using non toxic products, rituals and tools. She is a nurse, an aesthetician and aroma therapist and her approach to skincare is clinical clean and holistic, which we love. She believes beauty is a mindset and a way of life. And that skin is a reflection of our daily habits of consumption both internally and externally. Her vision is to unite ancient beauty wisdom with modern science to help people fall in love with the skin, their end, and this end their skin within. So all that being said, welcome to the show. Shelly we are so excited to have you here. Katie and I have been talking about you and talking about this episode for a week. So we're glad it's finally here. And I watch your videos all the time. And they relax me and I try to you know mimic what you're doing in your Instagram videos. So thank you for being on the show.

Shelly: 2:26

Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Yay. So

Amy: 2:31

we are going to start with our nirvana of the week. And for our new listeners. This is just something in our week that brought us joy made us feel good and made us feel grateful. So mine this week was I did an outdoor yoga class, which I haven't done in a really long time. It was a beautiful day yesterday, it actually started out a little bit rainy, then the sun came out and just with 10 other women, we were outside doing yoga and I was just nice to be in nature breathing, doing yoga, stretching my body. It just felt so good. So that was my that was my moment of the week. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 3:02

That sounds great. Well, first of all, hi, Shelly. Thanks for being here. So my nirvana of the week, I think was coming home from traveling. We just had the kids on spring break. And I actually just had it right before we started, I went into my meditation space for the first time since I got back and was able to meditate and just kind of center myself and ground myself and just be in my very, like sacred private space again, after a week of being gone was really, really, really nice. So yeah, happy to be home. What about usually what was yours?

Shelly: 3:33

Wow, that's a good question. I was actually just home visiting family. And I don't know if this is a strength or a weakness, but for some reason, whenever I am on a vacation or seeing family, I completely forget about my phone, I forget about my emails, I forget about everything going on in my professional world. Sometimes even in my social world. It's really just a way for me to detach and come back to me. And and then it kind of just like, I feel very refreshed anytime I come back from a vacation because it's like a reset. Okay, this is this is how I actually want to live. Let's, you know, let's unwind a little bit more and detach a little bit more from electronics and the virtual world. So that was definitely my joyful Nirvana moment.

Katie: 4:20

Nice. It's so healthy is going off the grid. Essentially it Yeah, I love that. I need to try it. Well, let's get into it. I want to start with our quickfire questions, because we have so much to ask you. You are an aesthetician, you're also a nurse. Is it? Is it a nurse institution or is it two separate careers?

Shelly: 4:41

Well, it's both actually I work one day a week as a nurse at a hospital. I work in a radiology department. So we do a lot of procedural cases for cancer patients or people who need something less than surgery but they need some kind of intervention of some kind. So, so I do work. In that very medical setting, however, I am also and I started out this way I became a nurse later, but then you know, kind of went back to skincare. I started out as an Aesthetician doing skincare facials, you know, I dabbled with like laser stuff and like laser hair removal, waxing all the things. And so now I kind of combine the two, I still work at a hospital one day a week, I still work at a spa, you know, a couple days a week as well. But I also do a little bit of a, you know, combination. I'm a nurse injector as well. So for ladies who like to have their holistic skincare as well as their Botox or fillers, I kind of cater to their needs or guide them in which way however, however, they want to address their skincare, I can help them to sort of go one way or another. So it's kind of separate, but also combined at the same

Katie: 5:51

to that, yeah, very dynamic. So then how long when did you start your skincare line

Shelly: 5:57

that I started when I first became a nurse, and I started realizing just how all of the the manifestations that you see in a very ill person is the result of just years and years of your lifestyle adding up and you know, the ingredients that you have in your food, the ingredients that you have in your skincare, all of the forms of consumption that you are surrounding yourself with on a daily basis is sort of coming together. And for sadly, for a lot of people to great create this perfect storm of an illness or manifestation of some sort of disease. And so I you know, my first love is skincare. And I was realizing, you know, looking at patients, labs and stuff, how much the little micronutrients really mattered. So like we look at the labs, and that kind of tells us that something's off, or, you know, this, you know, their sodium is high, their potassium is down, like, and stuff like that. And so I discovered the powers of using seaweed, you know, internally, because it has so many minerals that has so many trace elements and vitamins and things that our cells need to sustain life and to regenerate optimally. And then kind of teamed up with a chemist and we came up with a seaweed skincare line, obviously, I totally believe in eating your seaweed and eating your algae because it's so powerful. In fact, I know you guys recently did a podcast with someone on that and I want to listen to that. Because I'm so I'm so convinced that that is the key to a healthy life and a healthy you know, being so anyway, because of that, it just kind of motivated me to create a skincare line so that people could be feeding their skin from the outside in, in hopes that it just kind of creates more balance for them on a on a more systemic as well as you know, topical and superficial level as well.

Katie: 7:55

Yeah, it's so science driven, though, which is really impressive.

Amy: 7:58

Just to about your background, like how did you get into this in the first place?

Shelly: 8:02

Yeah, sure. I mean, I started out really being obsessed with skincare from a really young age like nine or 10 Because I had very bad acne. And like none of my friends had it. I mean, eventually some of my friends had it but like I was really the first one and it was pretty bad I had it all over my face, my chest, my arms, my back, it looked like it looked like a disease it was very like it consumed my life. You know, when you have acne that yes, that is all your world is your world is you know looking in the mirror and seeing something that you're just not happy with. And so I was very self conscious I was you know, always shying away from pictures I felt very you feel very like unlovable when you have something that's so you know, quote unquote, ugly on your skin. And so and when you feel unlovable by other people it kind of makes you feel like you can't love yourself. And so I became really really obsessed with skincare and you know, through the years I just kind of went through a lot of internal trauma like self hate self, you know, trying to destroy myself in different ways subconsciously and consciously to it to a degree but you know, it is sometimes I feel like you have to hit rock bottom before you can kind of realize you know, the only way is up and there's so much really the the only choice that you really have to get through it is to think positively and to find the best and everything. So I really started you know, I had like why am magazines you guys remember flipping through I would cut out all the things about skincare I made like a little skincare Bible I you know, because we didn't have the internet those days and dermatologists were just Oh use nazima or Clara cell or whatever. There was no instruction. So I really had to figure it out all on my own. So I had all these resources. And then as I got older I started really looking into the internal you know the internal environment and how that plays such a huge role, building your skin from within and Not only with your food, but with your thoughts, with your emotions, with the things that you're reading with the things that you're watching on television, anything that you are subconsciously absorbing, or anything that you are physically absorbing, is going to have an impact on you on a cellular level, as well as how you manifest to the world and to yourself. And so it really just like it kind of just, there was no like, Aha moment, really, it just kind of kept piling on as the more and more I learned, the more I realized, I didn't know. And so I was just kept pulling at that thread, you know, and I'm still trying to unravel the sweater, so to speak, like, I'm still, you know, I'm still trying to get at it and, and improve, you know, my skin every single day. Because, you know, we look at ourselves and we still see flaws, I still see, you know, quote, unquote, flaws, but I work at it, and I'm happy with my skin now, you know, so it brought me to a place where I now love myself very much. And I want to help other people to find that process or whatever that looks like for them. So that they can also feel really great in the skin that they're in.

Katie: 11:03

Yeah, that's so powerful. And thank you for sharing that. Because that is really such a strong message for our listeners. It's so important. Yeah, that's,

Amy: 11:12

especially for the listeners with young daughters, who, especially nowadays with the internet, and all of these things, and filters. And yeah, I've been seeing so much backlash against filters lately, just speaking of that, because it's these kids that have no context for the broader what is real, for what is real and seeing these things. It's just like magnifies it. So imagine, like how you felt then with none of that. And now these kids, so it's like a really important message, just make sure these young girls are growing up with outside sort of inspiration and gratitude. And anyway, so thank you for sharing that. Definitely. Okay, so let's get into guasha. Because I discovered guasha, probably like, a year ago, but I don't really know what I'm doing. So if you can break down kind of what it is, why it's good, and all and

Katie: 12:03

how did you find it to like, Where Where does it come from?

Shelly: 12:06

Well, it's an ancient Chinese tradition. So really, acupuncturist have all the claim to fame for this technique. And, and I am not claiming to be a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner or an acupuncturist, but I have worked with a lot of them, and I learned specifically from an acupuncturist. So, so it is an ancient Chinese tradition. Gua means to scrape and SHA is like the blood or the sort of the energy that comes to the surface. And so traditionally, it was used for the body, and you know, sort of scraping across the skin to bring some blood flow, which helps to release any negative energy and you know, brings more circulation and healing to an area of injured or damaged tissue or stagnation. Now, for the face, it's become more of a, from what I see. And from what I know, it's become more of a trendy skincare thing. However, there's so much, there's so much to benefit from it that I don't really see it going anywhere, anytime soon. I'm very grateful that it has become so popular because it's such an amazing technique to use for the face primarily for lymphatic drainage. That is essentially what what we are trying to do when we're when we're using guasha. Yes, it's contouring the face. It's shaping the face, it feels good. It's a great self care ritual. It helps you connect with yourself and sort of just get in a more Zen state. But at its core, what we're actually really trying to do is promote lymphatic drainage, which helps to boost immunity. It helps to de Puff the skin. It helps you to re circulate your blood and your limp a little bit more. I mean, did you guys want like a quick little demo? I can walk you through? Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. So my, one of my tools here, okay. So with your guasha This is one of my one of my stones here. This is the medicine woman tool. This one is made out of nephrite jade, and sometimes it does matter what the what the tool is made out of. But it really it's just it's more of a preference. Like the nephrite jade is more of an ancient Jade, it is very cooling on the skin. This is more of the traditional royal type of stone, but there are like by on stones, Rose Quartz, there's a new Jade, it's really just a preference of what you want, but I'm going to use this one. So so the idea and I know for your listeners, they can't see that. So I'm going to try to you know, describe it as best as I can. You have major lymph nodes in certain areas of the body, the underarms. You have them all around the chest, the neck, the back of the ears, around the groin area behind the knees, as well as on the feet you have like a and then you have like sort of sort of these extensions from the lymph nodes and they kind of come up to the head they kind of go out all through your body. And what they're doing is they carry white blood cells, they carry all of the fluid in your body, that then sort of collects all the waste from cellular metabolism. And it goes into that system into the lymphatic system those those vessels and collects back at those major lymph nodes that I just talked about. So the major lymph nodes that help with detoxifying the face are located right on the sides of the neck, the behind the ear, the chest area, and down to the underarm. So that's what you're really focusing on when you're doing guasha for the face is you are opening up and stimulating those lymph nodes, think of them as ports and they're closed. Most of the time without movement, when you're just kind of being stagnant sedentary lifestyle sitting around just doing office work, they're not really getting any movement, they need skeletal muscle activity, or they need manual manipulation, to open up to become stimulated. So things like jumping, things like stretching, moving will help to activate them. But if you're not doing that, if you can literally manually open up those ports just by massaging them with the stone. So right now I'm just kind of doing like up and down motions on the neck. And just that alone is going to help to open up those ports so that all of the vessels that are up by the face, and the and the head area can then be activated, they're like, oh, we have some more to drain now and they start coming down. And then once they collect in those nodes in those filters, then they get recirculated into the, into your vascular system. And then from your vascular system, they kind of get filtered out through your kidneys, and then through your urine. So the idea in a nutshell, is to activate the lymph nodes, so that all of the cell waste and all of the toxins that are circulating in your lymphatic system kind of come out and down, and then they're recirculated out of the body. Drinking Water helps that process even more,

Katie: 17:01

is that when you when we speak about inflammation, and you can kind of almost see sometimes when you're inflamed Is that is that the system that is experiencing the inflammation from the toxins and everything you're ingesting and all of that.

Shelly: 17:15

Correct. So every single day, your cells are metabolizing. And they you know, that's, that's just a natural part of life. If you don't have cell, your cellular metabolism going on at all times, you are probably very ill or almost, you know, sadly, almost deceased, like you're constantly, our bodies are constantly turning over cells, a natural byproduct of cellular metabolism is to create these toxic metabolites. That's just a natural part of you know, cell metabolism and Cell Life. What happens is when there's when there's a lot of toxins in your system, say from alcohol, fried food, or stress, stuff like that, more toxins are going to come out because your body can't handle all of that at one time. And so that kind of gets expelled from the cells into the fluid surrounding the cells. And it kind of creates that fluid retention. And that. So if you ever notice, if you drink a lot at night, the next morning, most of the time, you're going to be puffier on that morning versus, you know a night that you just had a regular dinner at 6pm and went to sleep and drink water, you're going to be healthier after drinking that alcohol because your body your liver has to has to try to metabolize it. But every single cell in your body is also trying to metabolize those toxins. And when it's too much for the body to handle it, you know, it takes in the nutrients that it can in any toxins or anything that it can't or does not want to use gets expelled back into the interstitial fluid. And that is the swelling that you see in your face in the

Katie: 18:55

morning. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Wow. So

Amy: 18:58

this is so informative, because I've like I said, kind of, you know, saw it online and started messing around with it. But I didn't really know. I knew it was good for you. But I didn't really know all of the science behind it. And that's so helpful. So when you do your neck does your face when you when you do your face, is it the same drain the lymph nodes in the same way that you're describing.

Shelly: 19:22

So yes, so if you if you just do the face without opening up the neck first, most of the time it's all that fluid that you're moving around is just going to get stuck after. So think about think about like your lymph nodes here as when they're closed up. There's a traffic jam. So you have to clear out the traffic jam before any of the rest of you know the car is coming through which is you know the fluid that's in your face before that can actually go through. So so once you unclog and on and open up this area on the neck, those are open So the traffic jam is now you know, sort of cleaned up. Now all the rest of the quote unquote cars, the rest of the fluid that's being held in your face as inflammation and swelling and where to go, and where to go. And so after you do the neck, then you go in and do the face and assist that process even more

Katie: 20:19

interesting.

Amy: 20:20

And how often should people do this ritual?

Shelly: 20:25

Well, I mean, ideally, you want to do some form of lymphatic drainage every day, I mean, not only is it going to help to just make your face look a lot brighter. But if you suffer from acne, it's really going to help to keep you know things going. Because a lot of times acne is just stagnation. It's, it's, it's, you're holding on to stress and so it just gets stuck. So ideally, a little bit every day. But even if you can't do that, you know, even just like a simple neck massage every day, we'll do enough to just open open stuff up so that then when you're drinking water, and you're moving around, stuff is still moving.

Katie: 21:01

Now, how does the so this is the medicine woman tool that you just used? Right, right. And then you also have the Venus. And they're both guasha tools, are they how are they different and also from the Jade roller? Does that do they all do different things or similar things?

Shelly: 21:19

So Jade rollers are, they're really I think they're really fun to use. And they feel really good for pressing products and, and they do a little bit of lymphatic drainage. But the issue with Jade rollers is because they roll so easily over the skin, sometimes you're not getting enough of that friction, enough of that catch of fluid. And so instead of it, you know gliding across the skin and sort of pulling or pushing that fluid out, it just kind of it just kind of brushes the surface of the skin. So I personally don't use a jade roller just because I get so much more use out of using a flat stone that it the ability for this to catch more fluid, it's just so much, it's just as so much of a better job. And the difference between my two tools. This first one is the medicine woman tool. This was the first one that I designed. And I really wanted it to be sort of a combination of a lot of different tools that I've used. And I wanted to like just create one that was going to be like, okay, it kind of does a little bit of everything. So I have like a, a larger comb here that you can use on the scalp because the scalp holds a lot of stress. We got you know, headaches can be relieved by just a simple scalp massage. And we also have some lymph nodes here on the back of the head, as well as sort of the lymph channels that kind of carry all throughout the head. So scalp massage is really underrated but can make such a huge difference. And love scalp massage. Immediately like relaxes your central nervous system. And that right there just kind of stimulates your vagus nerve, and then you get into that rest and digest sort of phase. So so I really wanted something with a large comb. And then the you know, the long side that I have on that one is really just ideal for lymphatic drainage, because it's so easy to use, and it's long, so you don't Yeah, it's a nice size. Yeah, so you so for someone who's a beginner or doesn't have a lot of time, this is probably the best tool, because you don't you don't need to spend, you know, hours, hours in the mirror doing this, you could just do it, you know, like 10 swipes and that's pretty good. You know if you can get that in a day. And then like, you know, the shallow groove here, that's good for like contouring. So this one is really intuitive to use, I feel like anyone can pick this up and just kind of figure out, okay, obviously this is you know, that sides gonna go on the scalp, this sides gonna go on the cheeks, it's pretty straightforward. The venous tool is a little more complex. And I would say that's more for people who are like Avid guasha users, and, you know, they have been practicing it and they want something a little bit more advanced. That one has a couple different. Let me grab it real quick, a couple different sides. And they're all different. They're all slightly uneven. And I really this tool, actually, the shape of this tool came to me in a dream. I woke up one morning and I saw it and I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to start drawing it out. And I started drawing out like how it was going to look and then you know started working with the developers and figuring out how was gonna you know, feel in the hands and how it was gonna shape the face and it was just like, perfect. So she had your tools are beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, this one is like I love her I think a little bit more just because like it I feel like I feel like one of my spirit guides you can even like my friend. Yes, sorry. Yeah. And I also just like that she's shaped like a woman because part of guasha is the ritual stick out aspect of it. And I feel like a lot of times, you know, maybe it's different for everyone, but I like connecting with like feminine energy, especially when I'm doing like my face washing and like my application of moisturizers and stuff, like I like to feel like a beautiful woman. So I love that she's shaped like a woman because I feel like it really helps women to connect with their divine feminine energy. And I made her pink so that she kind of like when you're holding her the, the energy of Rose Quartz already just sort of sort of amplifies your feelings of self love and connection and internal healing so it's really just like when I'm using her I just automatically like my vape my vibration, I feel like it just sort of like amplifies just by holding her and then when you use her, you know, it's just she's so smooth on the skin. And, and really she just contours and hugs the face in so many different ways. And so I've really been enjoying using her

Amy: 26:05

a lot. That's beautiful. I need to buy both I saw that the the medicine woman the first one that you were showing us is sold out on your beauty shaman websites. Now I need to know when you're getting that one back end because that's a great one for beginner like us, but I might have to buy both because they're both so beautiful.

Shelly: 26:22

I'm hoping I'm hoping that it will come soon. I've been we've been having issues with shipping because of it. But yeah, but I'm hoping it will be in soon.

Amy: 26:32

Okay, so here's another question I always have a back wash ah, what do you put on your skin before you do it? Like do you put oil on you but nothing on.

Shelly: 26:41

So it depends, I usually put a light layer of oil, but some people if their skin is naturally a little bit oily, you can get away with nothing you can you know you can, you can sort of especially if it's a smooth stone like the rose quartz or something you could get away with not putting anything on your skin. If you're using something like like a really drying facewash then it may not work because then you sort of stripped all the oils from your skin but if you're using a gentle cleanser, you could totally just use like a smooth stone because the idea is to sort of allow the stone to catch some of the fluid so if you put on too much oil, then you're gonna miss too easy to it's too then you're literally just wiping the stone on your face, you know it's I mean it's not going to make any difference at all. So you do need a little bit of a catch and so that's why I use like very light layer while I'm talking like three to four drops in my hands. Spread that all around, it just creates the right amount of slip so that this will still be effective. But you know I also like to press the oils into the skin as well. So it kind of has that added benefit

Katie: 27:51

Are you cleaning the tool after each use also,

Shelly: 27:55

yes, I wash it with gentle soap and water just like you would a delicate dish and then dry it off and then I have like a little spot in my bathroom that I just put her and then and then the next time I'm ready to use her she's already clean.

Amy: 28:09

And you you you do guasha in the morning or at night or when's the best time to do it.

Shelly: 28:15

It really depends I have more time to do it in the evening. So my so I do it in the evening. And it's also the evening is when I have more time to just really bring myself you know into a more relaxed sort of like let go of everything state however in the morning is also really great to do if you have the time for it because that's when you're going to be your poppiest so that's when you're going to want to really get things going on the neck open that up because then once it's open and then you know if you have time to do the face as well. Then the whole rest of the day your your skin's gonna be sort of draining because all that is open so I mean I ideally I guess it would be morning but I find that nighttime also works just as well and it helps me to sort of wind down wind down and just like sort of you know look in the mirror and like ask myself how is your day you know, and sort of like on that too? Yeah,

Amy: 29:12

and do you this is sorry I have so many questions but it's like I love this stuff is a great I love it. It morning like if you were to do it in the morning do you do it you wash your face like put your do your skincare routine and then do it or do you do it first and then your skincare routine.

Shelly: 29:28

Also completely flexible you can do whatever you like I would probably say that when I when I do have time to do it in the morning. I do a really quick oil cleanse first and then I can't I wipe that off and then I'll put on an oil light layer of oil. I'll do my wash ah, and then if I feel like I want to put on like a moisturizer right after that. I'll just put my moisturizer on right away. If I'm going to be going somewhere and I don't want to be wearing oil, then what I'll do is sort of wipe off a little bit of oil And then put on like, you know, spray some toner, my Sarah my moisturizer, SPF or something like that

Amy: 30:06

and you probably don't wear makeup because you're

Katie: 30:09

gorgeous, perfect. You're perfect.

Shelly: 30:12

I don't I mean I do I will wear mascara. But I noticed you know, I put on a tinted moisturizer not too long ago just because I wanted to try cuz I was like, let me try this makeup thing. And I put it on and then I put my mask on. And then when I took my mask off, I saw all the makeup and I got gross. I got really, I was like I can't I can't look at that. Yeah, it looks like dirt to me. So I'm done with that for now.

Katie: 30:40

Masks. Yeah.

Amy: 30:43

So we want to talk about all your skincare as well. But one last question about all of this stuff. So what is the difference between Glasha and face real reflexology? Because I see that you also have that tool that's more of it's just different. So I don't we're your claim. Yeah, absolutely.

Shelly: 31:00

So facial reflexology is another technique from you know, that ancient Asian sort of cultures. And it is, it's a way of balancing the body as well as bringing more health and vitality to the skin. And when you are there, there are points on the face, everywhere all over the face that are associated with some kind with, with an organ in your body, or an area of your body or a component of yourself energetically or emotionally. So all of these points energetically correspond with and are associated with these different areas of the body. So by the reason why I call my tool the storyteller is because when you're using it, and going over certain areas of the face, you may feel that certain parts of the skin feel a little sour or zingy. And just a little bit more sensitive. And that is an indication according to where that is corresponding with on your body where you may have an imbalance. So, so for example, I was working on a client a couple days ago. And you know, I was like, Okay, let's just do like a whole balancing routine where I work on the entire face. And it's supposed to hit every single organ, it's supposed to hit every single part of your body and emotional sort of aura. So it kind of just balances you on a very holistic and unwholesome way. So I'm going around on her face, and I said, just let me know if there are any areas that are feeling like zingy, or any areas that are feeling a little bit more sensitive to you. So I'm going around and I got to one point up by her by her hairline. And she said that kind of hurts. And I said, Okay, well, that area is associated with your, you know, lower back, and she's like, I hurt my lower back a week ago. So then we keep we keep going. And then I hit two points. There's one between the brows and one like on the side of the face here. And she said those two points are, you know, really, those two points are sensitive. And I said, have you gone through like a recent heart ache, you know, like, it has something like Has something happened, where, you know, you've been, you've been impacted, you know, your heart has been like, you know, whatever. And she said, Well, my grandfather died yesterday. Oh, like,

Amy: 33:16

oh my god, okay, so that yeah, like little things

Shelly: 33:19

like that, like, it's a really powerful way of understanding what's going on in your body and at the same time, you can treat it at the same time, you can understand what's happening with you, and then you can go in and treat it so I focused on those spots for her. She also had a liver spot that was that was sensitive, and she said that a year ago her liver enzymes were like all messed up. So we worked on those specific points. And and I you know, gave her the homework and I said go home get like a tool like this or some kind of blunt, blunt tip and work on these specific points. And you know, do that every day and it will start to bring balance to your body it will start to energetically heal those areas of your body and you can see a major difference in someone's face if they've been, you know, really consistent with with doing the reflexology I do a little bit every night and I've noticed so much more of a lift and way less pop Enos around my eyes because of that and that the puffiness around the eyes is usually usually has to do with your kidneys or are out of balance and your kidneys and Chinese medicine are very associated with your overall energy. So I've been feeling stressed lately so that shows up as puffiness around my eyes so I hit those certain points and the pop Enos after a couple days just really goes away.

Katie: 34:42

And is this it's the storyteller tool is that's what is this the one that's like the long needle like thing? Yes, it's Oh, yeah, like, almost like yeah, let pin.

Shelly: 34:55

Okay, yeah. And there's different kinds. There's like really skinny ones as well. I personally like this one, because it's heavy. And the weight of the tool means that I can, I can detect a little bit better what's going on, like, I have some bumpiness right about here. And that's like my back area. And I do have back, you know, pain from, you know, here and there. So, so the weight of the tool really helps as well. And then I like to use this other side the the backside, and just really get into like any like knots in the neck. So I use this, like, every night, for some water

Katie: 35:28

that, yeah, it looks like the perfect tool for me,

Amy: 35:31

that looks so good just to like sit in bed and kind of, you know, yeah,

Shelly: 35:34

and you know, even if you don't know what you're doing, even if you don't like, oh, I have no idea what this is doing, but I feel somebody feel scared or something, just, you know, work on that area for 20 seconds. And the added benefit, you know, the more skin care benefit for it is when you use this, you're breaking up some and loosening some of the connective tissue that is holding your muscles, your skin, your collagen, and that becomes calcified and tighter and tighter, the more we age, and the less flexible our skin is. So you're breaking up some of the connective tissue and that creates more movement and flexibility within your skin. And that brings more circulation that can increase lymphatic flow that can you know, help with wrinkles, because you're pumping more collagen or some sorry, pumping more oxygenated blood flow to the collagen so it can repair. So even if you have no idea what you're doing, you're still getting something out of it. That's what I love so much about this.

Amy: 36:34

So I suffer from headaches, and I have vestibular migraines, which are basically like Dizzy vertigo kind of episodes that I have to work on every day. So I always, you know, sort of have tension and jaw tightness and all of those things. So is that tool like a good is there are there things to do for headaches and jaw tightness that you would use that tool with or guasha or both, or you could

Shelly: 36:57

definitely do both. I feel like with a headache, this one would be better, the storyteller would be better because you can because you can use both ends. You can use this more, the thicker tip here and just get into that jaw tension. Hmm, sort of relax your jaw a little bit. And then you know, loosen that up. And if you needed to in a pinch, open it up with this open up the neck using this side. And then there's certain areas that you can hit for a headache right in between the brows in this area. The whole forehead really is great for headache. For Did you say vertigo? Mm hmm. Okay, so like vertigo, there's a point right here above the upper lip that can help with that as well. So but yeah, I mean, like it. It's funny

Amy: 37:44

that you say that because I will sit sometimes just on the couch watching TV. And I'll like kind of massage my face right here just because it feels good. And it's funny because that's it's probably just intuitive that like, okay, maybe this is like helping with, you know, stress up here and whatever. Exactly,

Shelly: 37:59

exactly. Mm hmm. Yeah. So doing like the actual temples. I mean, there's a reason why when we're like, stressed, we always hit the temples here, right? Yeah, your body knows, you know, on a very subconscious and energetic level, you know, where to where to go to heal. So and that's really what this does is that it, it puts your body in the state where you can then heal yourself. Mm hmm. So this is not necessarily doing the healing, it's helping you get into that rest and digest parasympathetic nervous system state where your body starts to heal itself.

Katie: 38:37

Yeah, that's, I love that. That's the parasympathetic nervous system I've learned about recently, because of one of my autoimmune diseases, it's, I'm highly affected by stress, because I don't make cortisol. So I I know how to shift myself into that rest and digest. I have like, found all of these little tools that helped me do that. And I can literally feel myself recovering and healing and coming out of the stressful moment attacking my body. But it's a really cool tool.

Amy: 39:06

The rest and digest piece I learned about a few years ago when I was doing all this research about my headaches and like these vertigo episodes. And one of these integrative doctors I spoke with is like you are in you know, fight or flight and you're not resting and digesting. And like, just the simple things. I'm sure Katie has a lot of tools to, like, you know, breathing on one side of your nostril. Like, if you like doing something like that can calm me down. And it's so it makes such a big difference to Katie's point. And I just never thought about it before. Because it's like, a lot of times you're holding your breath. You don't even realize it. Yeah. So all of these things, I think, just contribute to that bigger, you know, holistic healing and deal with it.

Shelly: 39:44

Mm hmm. Yeah, it's very powerful.

Katie: 39:47

Your energy one this I saw this recently and it looks so cool. So it's a vibrating tool.

Shelly: 39:53

Yes. Let me grab that one. So this one is this one's really it's, it's fun. You know, you can use it in different ways. But I like to use this it, you turn it on, and it vibrates 6000 times per minute. So, so Amy for your headaches, that you may love this as well, because the vibrations even though they're so, so fast, and so energizing, it is somehow very calming your nervous system. And so you turn it on and you can just hold it in place. I don't know if you guys can hear the vibration a little bit. Yeah. And it just kind of revives the cells, it. I mean, immediately, I'm just like, oh my life. But you know, depending on how you use it, it can be used for lymphatic drainage as well. Like, if you're, you know, bringing it from the center of the face to the outside, you're carrying some of the lymph away from your face, and then you can kind of just bring it down or if you just need it for circulation. Because of the vibration, it's sort of waking everything up bringing more circulation and healing to any area where you have where you have skin damage. So wrinkles. If you have like, you know, areas where you have like pigmentation or breakouts and stuff, it can help with that as well.

Katie: 41:07

Nice. Yeah, I think I've gotten a facial with something not exactly that but where it was like a constant vibration. I'd love to Yeah,

Amy: 41:15

yeah. Okay, so now we know how to do all of these things to get our that the lymph nodes and the toxins out and all of that stuff. So from a skincare standpoint, like tell us about beauty shaman skincare line and what you recommend for a skincare routine?

Shelly: 41:32

Well, I mean, your skincare routine can be as simple or as you know, complicated as you as you wish it to be. I think the most important thing is to use clean quality ingredients and do what works for your skin. I you know, so many people say what is you know, what is your exact routine, I want to follow it but your, your skin is different than mine, you know. So you really have to figure out what's going to be best for your skin. One thing that I would stress is how you clean your face. That is the most important thing I think in a skincare routine is how you wash your face for how long? What products you're using, you know, all of the serums oils and moisturizers. They could be cheap, they could be expensive. If you're not cleaning your face properly, none of it will matter.

Amy: 42:26

So how do you clean your face properly.

Shelly: 42:29

So I'm like, again, there's different techniques and you know, different things work for people. But I personally believe very strongly in oil cleansing, it's an ancient technique. It helps to emulsify makeup, it helps to emulsify any dirt, pollution, anything that is getting stuck in your pores throughout the day, because your pores are you know, little, I guess like little crevices in your skin. And they're sticky. Because they're made of lipids, they're made of, you know, skin cells, so they're sticky. So when you're walking around throughout the day, when there's dirt and pollution and stuff in the air, all of that is getting sort of stuck in those pores. And then if you use just like a commercial face, wash over it and use it for like 30 seconds, you're just sort of like washing the top and none of the stuff that's in the pores is getting cleaned out. And that can lead to collagen breakdown, clog pores, acne, you know, a whole host of different you know, skin things that you just don't want. So oil cleansing because oil removes oil and it melts into oil, it sort of encapsulates all of that dirt, anything that's stuck in the poor. And if you're doing it for at least a minute, I prefer two to three minutes but at least a minute. The warmth from your hands will help to melt those oils together. And then when you take a hot or warm washcloth and wipe it off, it brings all that with it. It literally picks it up like as if it's like encapsulated in like a little bubble and it takes it away but it leaves all of your natural oils intact. Then I like to follow up with a regular facewash but again needs to be gentle if it has like sodium lauryl sulfate, which is an industrial strength cleaning agent, they use that and like dishwashing soap and laundry detergent but it's also found in commercial face washes. So that is going to strip all of the oil from your skin, your skin is going to try to overcompensate by producing more oil or it leaves the lipid barrier completely vulnerable to irritation, redness, all sorts of just things that cause you know flakiness and dryness on the skin. So my personal way of doing it is to oil cleanse first and then I follow up with my regular face wash that contains no harsh chemicals. And I find it sometimes even just by doing that, I'll be done and I'll look in the mirror and I'll feel my skin and I'll be like okay, do I even need anything on my skin now my skin Feels so good, just not. So I would say anyone who has never tried it, just give it a try for a week. And you'll notice that your skin is softer, your products are going to go on better, you're going to have way less redness in the skin, and all the dehydration lines are going to start to fade expression lines are a little different dehydration lines, you will see those immediately start to go away. Yeah, I

Amy: 45:23

started oil cleansing recently. I did it this morning. I haven't been consistent and I do it. I also wasn't sure if you do it morning and night. It's it's I mean, I've been doing morning at night, but I wasn't sure like if you're supposed to use something different during the night, but I do enjoy it. And I do feel that my face is much softer and it does feel cleaner. Yeah.

Katie: 45:45

How important is the washcloth aspect of it because I do like the splashing the water on my face and then it does that make a difference? Should you use a washcloth when you're trying to take everything off.

Shelly: 45:57

Um, it for oil cleansing, I think it's probably best if you're going to do the oil cleansing component because without using the washcloth like that stuff will just kind of stay on the skin. You need the you need the cloth to kind of you know take all of that off, it kind of removes all of that. The cleansing oil, as well as anything that's like any dirt or anything that's stuck in the pores. In terms of just like a regular face wash, I think that just depends on what you like to do. I personally use a washcloth for both because I don't like water all over my bathroom. And whenever I wash my face with just the water, it's like water works everywhere. And I'm pretty messy with that. So so for me the washcloth is cleaner for my environment. And I also feel like I also feel like I get when I get everything off the skin. My skin is just a little bit softer. So I think for the oil cleansing component, a washcloth is probably pretty necessary. But for just regular face washing it's really just whatever suits you. I don't think there's a right or wrong.

Amy: 47:03

Yeah, we talked about this. In one of our last episodes we talked about the Makeup Eraser. I don't know if you've tried that, but how it's it's like a washcloth to take off your makeup. I use it for oil cleansing but I like it because it's very, very soft because sometimes I find wash pots are so harsh so I use that and I think it it like feels really good when you're you don't feel like you're ripping your skin you know it just feels like soft and it takes makeup off. And it also of course you can use it for oil cleansing and other things. So it is to call them out. It's called the Makeup Eraser makeup erase and they say it's clean and there's nothing in it. That's harmful. Check it out. Let us know what you Yeah,

Shelly: 47:44

absolutely. Check it out. One thing that you could also do if you know if that doesn't work and you have you know, extra cloth diapers.

Katie: 47:51

Really? Wow. Yeah, interesting. Good one,

Shelly: 47:55

cloth diapers are really soft on the skin. We use those at the spa sometimes. And they're, they don't last that long. Because you know, once you use them a couple times they start to get a little raggedy and thin but, but those work really well as well for the skin.

Katie: 48:09

That's a great hack right there. Nice. Well, I feel like we could talk for hours and hours. I've so many more questions. So I have to do it again. But how how can our listeners get in touch with you? Or or if you're, you're doing like you said you're doing injectables for some people and then also

Unknown: 48:28

so I work yeah, so I work at a med spa. It's called sacred skincare and the owner is one of my best friends. So it's a really great partnership that we have going on. So for all of my facials as well as injecting that is all done through sacred skincare that sacredskinyc.com. And then in terms of my products, you can just find me you know on my website beautyshamans.com or my Instagram, which is @beautyShamans.

Amy: 48:56

I love that name, by the way. I know. Yeah, like do I have a beauty shaman now? Do you like everyday like me? Shelly, what do I do? Very specific instruction. Well, the

Unknown: 49:07

idea is for everyone to become their own beauty shaman.

Amy: 49:11

Yes. True. Become your own beauty healer, so yeah.

Katie: 49:17

Love it. Well, let's hit our rap session. If you have a few more minutes.

Shelly: 49:20

Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Katie: 49:23

So what would be your favorite beauty or wellness hack? I mean, I feel like you just gave us so many. But do you have one? Go to? Well,

Shelly: 49:31

I mean, it would have been oil cleansing actually. That is definitely so now I have to think of another one another beauty hack. Let me think. Let me think on that for a second because I was going to do the oil cleansing because that is such an important one.

Amy: 49:49

That can be your hack. That could be my hack. Yeah,

Shelly: 49:52

I mean, that is I mean, every client I get on oil cleansing. They all come back and they're like wow, I I can't believe it took me this long to, to get around to this or to try it or to believe in it when in fact, it's been around for centuries. You know, does your website

Amy: 50:10

have oil cleansers on? Yeah, do you create that

Shelly: 50:14

I saw one that I make. And it's, I formulated it, it's three different viscosities of oil. So there's a thin one, which is the argan oil, that one penetrates into the skin a little bit deeper, so it adds some moisture to the skin. And then the Hoba is the most like our own sebum. So that kind of sits on the surface and kind of gets into the pores. And then hemp seed oil I use, and that's a thicker oil, and that is what does sort of the emulsifying. So those three together are nourishing the skin oil, cleansing the skin and removing all the dirt at the same time. And then I fragrance it naturally with essential oils sit mostly citrus essential oils, because citrus essential oils are most of them are classified as monoterpenes and monoterpenes are really great for killing any bacteria in promoting white blood cell stimulation, as well as pushing other products into the skin. So they're really good for helping to drive other ingredients into the skin. So all that together creates my cleansing oil. Super product, it

Katie: 51:24

sounds like yeah, okay, so

Amy: 51:27

this question we call our five minute flow. So you just got out of the shower, just straight off. Uber just alerted you, there are five minutes away, like what's your quick beauty routine? Like what do you put on what are your favorite go to is to just get in the car or, you know, get out of the house on time and Uber,

Shelly: 51:44

okay, if I want to because I do this all the time actually.

Amy: 51:50

Being in New York, it's very relevant. My

Shelly: 51:51

husband be like, we have five minutes and we have to be out the door. I'm like, Okay, go. I do is like I get completely naked. And I have I have a bunch of different oils that I make. Because you know, I love essential oils and aromatherapy. So I have a bunch of different oil sort of roll ons that I have or bombs that I make. So what I do, I'll rub all the oils all over my like all over my body all over my arms and really hit the lymph node areas and just work those in as much as I can. And I'll use the bombs on like my legs and stuff like that. So I will just be a complete oily goddess mess, body. And then you know, I'll just wipe off my hands real quick. So there's still a little bit of that oil on my hands. I'll you know, spray on a hydrating mist. I'll put on a serum, I'll put on an oil and massage that in and then get down into my neck again. So that literally from head to toe. I am like covered in products. And then I'll put on my sunscreen. And then I'll put on my clothes, a little bit of dry shampoo. And that's it. And maybe one necklace and then that's it doesn't matter what else I'm wearing. I feel complete.

Katie: 53:01

That's great. That's so great. Perfect five minute flow get you. Yeah, nice. So what do you do to maintain your daily Nirvana's are the one thing that keeps you balanced and happy?

Shelly: 53:13

I would say well, meditation, I've gotten much, much better at my meditation practice. And also playing with my cat. Ah, yeah, really, she really just like brings my blood pressure down, you know, just like petting her. So I find that animals are just so they're really powerful and spiritual beings in our and they come to us for a reason. I feel so totally agree. So I think she came to me as also one of my Spirit Guides, and I actually will, I'll bounce off ideas off of her. And I'll ask her things. And it's really me asking my higher self because I already know the answer. And yeah, yeah. And so she and then she, you know, I feel like she answers me and then I feel better about my day. That's great.

Katie: 54:03

That's so sweet.

Amy: 54:04

So we are going to pass it to Shelly today to do a product review and we're excited to hear about what she's loving lately.

Shelly: 54:12

Great. Well, I mean, as you just heard in the whole podcast, I'm really obsessed with cleansing the skin and doing it properly. So my favorite product in my entire line is my face wash. It is organic. There's no harsh chemicals in it. It has no SLS or any sort of synthetic parabens or fragrances. Everything is naturally fragrance with essential oils. So you're getting some of that antibacterial action and stimulating action but it also has detoxifying, spirulina, chlorella, and it's really it's really geared for all skin types. It does so much for moisturizing the skin and balancing the pH but also getting that really nice, beautiful clean,

Amy: 54:58

so Okay,

Shelly: 54:59

thanks Wash is really, I have to say, like no other. I don't think I've ever used another one that I love as much as mine. I

Amy: 55:07

haven't How much does it sell for?

Shelly: 55:10

It's 58.

Amy: 55:11

Okay,

Katie: 55:12

it's filtering algae, which, you know, I love now.

Shelly: 55:15

Yeah, it's yeah, it's filled with algae and the beautiful green color that you see is completely natural that is not colored with anything that is the seaweed and the spirulina and algae. And it's in a package that is an airless pump. So you actually get to use every single ounce of the product, as you use the product, the bottom of the package comes up. And so you never have to sort of try to squeeze anything out or, or, you know, cry over that last little bit that you just can't get to the bottom yet, right. You get you get every single, little tiny, microscopic ounce of that product on your

Katie: 55:55

face. And you can get it out of that beautyshamans.com

Unknown: 55:58

Right beautyshamans.com

Katie: 56:00

and also through Instagram. I'm sure your bio will link you to everything as well, right?

Amy: 56:05

Yes, absolutely. And also, I just have to do a plug for Shelly, because I was I was mentioning in the beginning of the episode, if you go into her Instagram, she's got tons of videos and reels of her doing all the things we talked about today. guasha and reflexology. And I've learned a lot just by watching your videos. And I've tried to kind of mimic them but they're also just super relaxing to watch you I have to say like just watching you kind of do your routine is super relaxing. So for anyone listening, definitely check out her Instagram because it's fabulous and filled with so much good content.

Shelly: 56:34

Yeah, and thank you. And to that note, I am working on a secret project right now, that may be giving some instructional videos for people if they like as well. So stay tuned for that it should be coming hopefully within the next year or two. I'm gonna try to

Amy: 56:52

well, we can't wait to hear we definitely have to have you on for part two because I have like another set of questions about injectables and NuFACE and all these other things, but we will definitely have to have you back in a part two because this has been so so I don't know just all the things so good. So like I just I'm so happy. This is so my jam and so Katie's jam, so we loved it. And we thank you for being on Katie is going to close out with a mantra.

Katie: 57:18

Yeah, I am. I just want to say thank you to Shelly that was so great and insightful. So many great tips. So we'd love it. Our closing mantra, every cell of my body is vibrating with love and self being and just tell that to yourself over and over and remember it. So thanks again, Shelly. We really appreciate it. Love that. Thank

Shelly: 57:40

you guys so much for having me. I

Amy: 57:42

appreciate Thank you, Shelly

Katie: 57:43

bakes.

Amy: 57:45

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 13 - The Unsexy Side Of Self-Care (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 13 The Unsexy Side Of Self-Care.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a form of fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started.

Katie: 0:37

Welcome to Nirvana sisters this week, we have a fun episode. It's a little different than usual. We are calling this our Roundup, we decided to pull our listeners on Instagram and ask them some funny questions and get their feedback. This week we're gonna discuss all things unsexy. The unsexy side of self care? What are those silly crazy like wellness tools or hacks or things that you do when no one's looking to keep it together? And we got some really, really funny answers from our listeners. So we're excited. So yeah, why don't we start off with our nirvana of the week? Amy, what's going on?

Amy: 1:15

Katie? Yeah, I'm really excited for this episode. Katie and I have been talking about it for a while. And we also wanted to make sure that in this in our show, we're not just talking about all the beauty things and all the things you can do for your body that makes you feel that there is a site of self care, that's not so cute. And we want to talk about it. Because this shows all about being real, and talking to each other how we would talk normally. So there are things that you do that you don't maybe necessarily share with your husband or something like that, but you do share it with your girlfriends. So anyway, I'm excited to get into this show. But my nirvana of the week was getting my hair cut. My niece came to visit and I always take her to get her hair done. It's our special little bonds. And we always go every time she's here, and we get our hair done. And we get this relaxing treatment on her. It's called to Nino I talked about an episode earlier and gets the frizz out and she lives in Florida. So it's a really good thing for her hair. And she loves doing it. So we did that together. And it was really fun to spend time together. So really, actually, my Nirvana was setting time with Zoey my niece but in the process of that, I got my hair cut about four inches, which for me is a big deal because I've always had my hair long and it's still long, but now it's like a little bit below my collarbone. And I love it. It feels so fresh and so healthy. And I'm glad I did it and just went for it and didn't get scared about cutting my hair. And now I'm like I should have done this so long ago because I love it. And it's so much easier to deal with.

Katie: 2:38

Yeah, and it looks great on you. I think mine are one of the week is probably actually having your parents here. We I just had my inlaws here Aiden Allen, they were here all last week, they just left on Sunday. And they haven't been here a year because the pandemic it was really great to have them here. I feel bad because I was little under the weather while they were here. But they were so sweet about it. And we still made the best of it. And it was just great to see them and great to see Adam, my husband with his parents and getting that special time and the kids with their grandparents. It was just so good to be, you know, a little bit of a Fuller House with more family around.

Amy: 3:15

Oh, I love that. That's so good. Yeah, that's what's most important. Yeah. Okay, so into the unsexy side of self care. So Katie, and I haven't shared our answers. We got different answers through Instagram, as well as our friends through texts and things like that. So we're just going to share them with each other and and talk about it. So why don't you go first, Katie,

Katie: 3:38

I want to start with I will give one admittedly that I do. Do you want to get one admittedly that you do? And then the rest that we got as answers were keeping anonymous? I mean, we told her or listeners that we

Amy: 3:51

weren't sure. Why don't you go first? Okay.

Katie: 3:56

I mean, I was like, I'm sure I probably have a few more than maybe I'm willing to admit, but I have to one. I'm sure we all do it. I have to wear the dreaded mouth guard at night. And that thing is just you know, it's like so unattractive and not cute and it's not a big deal. Adams pretty cool about it for the most part until it's like sexy time and like excuse to take out my mouth guard. So that's a little, you know, that's one and then the other one. And this is a really good hack. I get dry patches on my skin and they get red and irritated. It happens from time to time and I naturally think like, Okay, I need more of my good face cream. So I go to put it on and it burns it and in flames and it makes it worse. So I found out that if I slather that kid's aquifer all over my face, that is like the only thing that's healing and it makes me feel good, but I walk around looking like an absolute oil slick. It's so gross. It's very unattractive. I mean, I

Amy: 4:57

keep it on all night or I keep it during the day.

Katie: 5:00

I wear all day and all night. I mean, I'll let you know before I go to bed or wash my face and put it back on. But I can literally walk around with a paper towel and just like block my face occasionally, like I'm blocking the top of an oily pizza. So funny, but it works.

Amy: 5:12

Well I it's so funny because I use Aquaphor on my lips every single night. And I always when my kids have cuts on their face or anywhere on their body, I always put Aquaphor on it, you know, the movie might greet my wedding, Greek wedding with the Windex, you know, the father uses windex for anything. I literally use Aquaphor for everything. And so my kids always make fun of me because I'm like I have a cup put up before on it like it is kind of my ride or die. So that's so funny. I've never actually put it on my face. Sometimes I put it up my nose, which would be very unsexy, just because my nose gets dry, and I'll put it up there. But I haven't actually tried it on my face. So that's, uh, I'm going to try that.

Katie: 5:48

You know, it's funny that you say that because your mom is the exact same way with Aqua for she like every time they came up with something, she was like, give us walk before.

Amy: 5:56

I think she must have gotten that for me. I mean, it's out of control the amount of Aquaphor we use in our house. So it's funny because I was gonna say that night guard thing too, because I've been wearing that for years. And it's the worst, but I actually stopped wearing it recently because it was I don't know, I had some sort of reaction. I don't know if I told you this, I had some sort of reaction to it. Or like every time I wore it, I would get these cuts and sores inside my mouth. It's almost like not an allergy, but some sort of reaction to it. I don't I don't know, I maybe I just need a new one. So I stopped wearing it. And by the way, I'm sleeping so much better because I was finding that I just wasn't sleeping well with it. It was just bothering me and I don't know. So I stopped wearing it, which is not good because I have like jaw tension every day because of it, but I do sleep better. So I probably have to get a new night guard. But I would say mine would be so I have the saline rinse that I use every morning for you know, sinuses and dry nose and it's I got the brand it's a purple and white bottle. It's called I can't remember the brands but you put it up one side of your nose and then it comes out the other side. It's not a neti pot though. It's kind of like an easier way to do a neti pot. So it goes in one side and out the other and then you do the other side. Honestly, it is the best thing ever because it clears out your whole passages. So you feel like you can breathe in the morning and it like rinses out all the like dryness and sinuses. So yeah, it's not cute, but

Katie: 7:14

I feel like it keeps you healthy too. Right like flushing out your sinuses. Yeah, I mean, it's all

Amy: 7:18

natural. You can do it as much as you want. But I usually do it in the morning and sometimes at night, but I can breathe 100% better with it. It's a game changer. It's so good.

Katie: 7:26

That's a good one. Yeah,

Amy: 7:27

it's a saline rents.

Katie: 7:29

You know, it's funny as we're as we're sharing like these, our listeners are going to get some some good tips and some good hacks on this stuff. I mean, any brand of anything that we can think of like it will shine. We'll share that on Insta.

Amy: 7:39

Yeah, well, we definitely well, yeah. Okay, so let's get into some of these funny, anonymous self care unsexy side of self care things that people gave us. Why don't you share like a few and then we'll kind of go back and forth. Okay, well, I'm dying to hear yours because I know you said you had some really funny ones.

Katie: 7:55

Speaking of awkward for Up the nose. That's actually a girlfriend said to me that she does it to keep germs out of her nose when she's flying. She puts like a giant glob of aquifer up each nostril when she's traveling. And she swears by it and she's she's like it doesn't look you thank God that for masks right now because it kind of hides. Yeah, but it keeps her from I guess inhaling germs and since she's been doing it she hasn't gotten sick after she traveled. And she's been doing it for years, not just since the pandemic so the other half an aquifer Yep. Aquifer before I before that. Another one was instead of getting she was paying a lot of money for eyebrow tinting. And instead of paying for that she now like someone told her to try chapstick on her eyebrows. I guess like the maybe the I don't know, the actual chapstick kind of like looks like it fills it in a little bit. I need to try it because my eyebrows are always sparse. Try

Amy: 8:50

that. So that funny my eyebrows speaking of eyebrows have grown out from the pandemic I haven't been I usually get them threaded, and I haven't done it. And now they're so long and I actually liked them better. Because usually when you get them like waxed or threaded like they get really short and they've grown out so now maybe I could try the chapstick trick

Katie: 9:06

and you know what? It's like, I also feel like fuller like grown on eyebrows is really on trend right now.

Amy: 9:12

Yeah, I was just here. I was just listening to a podcast about I think it's called soap, eyebrows or something like that where there's some method where you can dip or brush an eyebrow brush into soap have your hair stick straight up, but there's a product actually by Anastasia, that it's like a wax that you put on your eyebrows. That's supposed to be an easier way to do this soap eyebrows look but I bet you chapstick is the same thing. Yeah, it's just the idea of like a waxy so it keeps your eyebrows up and looking fuller. Yeah, so

Katie: 9:41

not feeling like that. Alright, I have more but you give me a couple of No. Okay, so

Amy: 9:47

lots of feedback from anonymous sources. So someone said does trimming my nose hairs work? And I said yes, of course. So there are definitely people doing that. Another notch and this one was shaving my face, which I've definitely heard of before. I heard that there's these like razors that are really good for getting those little peach hairs off your face. I've never tried it, but I know people swear by it.

Katie: 10:13

Yeah, I we had one feedback where she has to shave her upper lip almost every single day. And I mean, women have facial hair, and sometimes some women. It's darker than others. Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's probably really fast and effective to do it every day. But I actually noticed when I have, you know, that eyebrow trimmer that we reviewed a while back that you told me about that like shaves your eyebrows.

Amy: 10:38

Well, yeah, it shaves the ones that come in the ones

Katie: 10:41

below. So when I do that I grow back and darker so I had to stop using it because I feel like it couldn't get super close. So I think if you shave your upper lip, maybe that's why you have to do it more often because it maybe grows back in darker or something. So that I

Amy: 10:56

thought I read mine. So of course I haven't done that in a long time. But yeah, mine's blonde blonde so you can't really see it. Okay, that's a good one. So the other one I got in this realm was plucking chin hairs.

Katie: 11:09

That's a good one is speaking of chin. I have one where they're using a contraption to give themselves a neck and a chin left.

Amy: 11:21

What was apically about that

Katie: 11:23

there was a picture of it where it was like literally like her chin was in a hammock and it was wrapped all around her head or something banana it is like lifted up and she's walking around the house like that for like two hours.

Amy: 11:39

I thought you meant like a washer or something. So

Katie: 11:41

no, it's like a it's an actual device that literally is like holding up your neck and your chin and you wear it for hours and it's supposed to help lift it all up and get yeah give you a gender and and then all she said she's only tried it a couple of times.

Amy: 11:58

Wow, that's intense. I've never heard of that. And that's really funny. Yeah.

Katie: 12:02

Oh, back to the shaving someone is saying shaving everything every day. And I so get that. I mean I fortunately like for the most part have blonde hair on my legs, but it comes in fast. So

Amy: 12:15

yeah, same but I don't shave every day to mature

Katie: 12:18

and I know plenty of people that have done like, arm waxing and like laser hair removal. That's not cute. And you know what else isn't cute that no one really talks about? Is bikini waxing like I have. I've never been comfortable enough to go and do it. But I know a lot of people do it but talk about unsexy wax. No, I just saw myself grim.

Amy: 12:42

Oh my gosh. Oh, I hate getting a bikini wax. But I do it because I just don't I mean, I haven't gotten one in a while because the pandemic but I need to go desperately. And yeah, it's not it's very, it's especially if you've not, I mean, I've been doing it for years. So I don't think about it anymore. And these women who do it are like pros. It's not like a big deal. Right? But especially if you get a Brazilian which is like basically everything off. It's like they are all up in there. But I mean, it's great afterwards because you're like free wax. I can't believe you're in a bikini wax. I've never known this fun fact about

Katie: 13:19

I've never done it. I don't know why I'm like too embarrassed or something. It's really like,

Amy: 13:23

yeah, it's it's it hurts. I mean, my biggest thing is not even the embarrassment. It's more it is so freakin painful. I've never been able to do it where it's not painful. It's just I've really sensitive skin. So it's like, torture for me. But the woman told me that if you go more often it doesn't hurt as much but I like dread it so I put it off because I don't want to do it. So now when I go in I like do yoga breathing literally the whole time. But you know, no pain, no gain,

Katie: 13:51

right? That's so true.

Amy: 13:53

Do you have Okay, so the ranking of face and hair staff so someone said, pop my pop my back blackheads. I don't know if this person does that, or has someone else do that for them? Potentially her husband but that's, that's a good one. And this one I thought was actually really good. Someone said they narrow their arm hair. So talk about like, instead of lasering they put Nair that's on their arm hair, which I was like, Oh, that's such a good idea. I like I haven't used narrow since I was a teenager.

Katie: 14:22

It seems like it would be super painful though. Right? Speaking of being paint. I mean,

Amy: 14:27

Because narrow is just it's like a cream isn't it's just a cream you put on and then wipe off.

Katie: 14:32

Oh, I don't Oh, I thought it was a narrow wax. Oh, okay.

Amy: 14:35

Oh, I'm thinking I mean, I'm assuming that's what she meant. I mean, was just a comment, but I think you just literally put it on your arm and wait. And then and then it just didn't wash off or tissue. Yeah, it's almost like you could probably use it for your upper lip for things in your face, too. If that's what I'm thinking of that kind of snare. That's good. I didn't even know it was still around. So I'm trying to think if I have any more hair ones I think, Oh, here's a funny kind of heroine says someone wrote in. What about sitting on my back deck in the sun and tweezing my ingrown hairs from the back of my knee.

Katie: 15:15

That's a good

Amy: 15:17

how hysterical is that?

Katie: 15:19

Oh man ingrown hairs on the back of her knees. That sounds painful.

Amy: 15:24

Painful. I don't get those. But that sounds awful. Yeah,

Katie: 15:27

it does.

Amy: 15:30

And then I also have laser. So someone wrote in laser hair removal on my armpits, bikini area and upper lips. So apparently people are doing that. Oh,

Katie: 15:41

here's another good one. Speaking of armpits, Botox injections in your armpits to stop sweating so much. Some people that are like hyper sweaty, get a little Botox put in there. That's a good one.

Amy: 15:54

I have heard of that randomly. I was listening to CES years ago because it was the first person I heard say this Sebastian manis Galco, the comedian. He was on a talk show. I can't even remember what it was. Maybe he was talking to Howard Stern or something like that. And he was talking about that he used to go on stage and he was sweating so much. You could see his armpit sweat and his T shirts. And he was so paranoid about it. So someone had recommended to do Botox. So he's been doing that. So you can see him sweating on stage. And I was like, Oh my God, that's so genius. I never thought of that. Yep.

Katie: 16:26

And it works. I've never done it. But I know people that have. Yeah,

Amy: 16:29

interesting. That's a good one. Let me see what else I have. So couple people wrote in blue light glasses and readers smart. Someone wrote in sweating overnight, which we can all relate. Oh, yeah. I get major night sweats. And someone said seven said, sweating overnight and then showing my husband in the morning. How sweaty The sheets are. To do that. Yeah, but I do sweat during certain times of the month and it's not

Katie: 17:00

the worst. And I hate that. I have a couple two that are pretty funny. I mean, one is the classic using Hemorrhoid Cream to help with puffy eyes. Have you ever tried it?

Amy: 17:10

I haven't. And I'd love to know if it works. I feel like it

Katie: 17:13

works. It doesn't work as well as walking into Sephora and buying a great bottle of eye cream. But I have done it and it has helped a little bit it kind of stings. I feel like it's like a peppermint tea and thick like you have to just put like a little teeny tiny bit on there. And then this is a really funny one. So she has asthma. And when she sleeps, she drools a lot and apparently your saliva can cause all these cracks and things and your lips like in between, like in the corners of your mouth. So her doctor told her at night before she goes to bed to put on DESA 10 Baby butt cream on like on her mouth. Like literally all around her mouth like chapstick in the quarters. And she said she just I mean I don't know Do you ingest lip gloss? I mean, I guess maybe a little bit, but she said it works like a charm. She hasn't had any cracks in her lips. So she's been using butt cream on her mouth

Amy: 18:17

so far, but okay, that is I've never heard that one. You know what, maybe

Katie: 18:21

we should tell her about aquifer.

Amy: 18:23

Well, you know what? The buck cream works better. So I remember using that when my kids were little so I bet you that's stronger. Yep. Which is probably way set it someone wrote in. Let me look let me pull this one up. They said I use CBD balm on my legs and hands every night and my dog runs when he smells it so that's a good one. I have CBD and I use it sometimes on my temples when I have a headache which I love or all my jawline if there's tension I've never tried it on my legs and hands and that probably is relaxing. I would imagine but it probably is pretty smelly.

Katie: 18:53

I have I had a roller a CBD roller but it wasn't that bad. It smelled like it smelled like mint and I just like my lower back and my legs and everything but like talk about kind of being a little greasy. It can do that but it does help.

Amy: 19:06

Yeah, no, that's that's a good one I that maybe the smell just doesn't appeal to doggies.

Katie: 19:11

You know, another one that I do that I have had to do it for as long as I can remember and it's because of my thyroid when you have hypothyroid you have really dry feet. It's so gross. But like you have to get if you don't get a pedicure every single week you can get really really dry calici feet. Love admitting that on the air. So yes. So every night before I go to bed, I'm like slathering foot lotion on. I mean, I have been doing it forever. And it's so funny. I actually remember it was my you were there. It was my wedding shower that my friend Margaret put on and one of the games was asking all these questions and it was like what what does he do right before he goes to bed? What does she do right before she goes to bed and then you have to guess what the other one does? And I said I put foot lotion on On at bedtime, and I heard one of the girls that was kind of a friend but more of an acquaintance that was there go. Ill

Amy: 20:09

remember that. So

Katie: 20:11

I guess it's probably not the sexiest thing. I mean,

Amy: 20:14

I know that. I've done that before. You know what I've also done. I've put on lotion when my feet feel dry. And then I put on like a thick sock. That's

Katie: 20:22

good. Yeah. Yeah, I've done that in the winter. It's like a paraffin treatment almost.

Amy: 20:26

Yeah, exactly. A lot of people wrote in and talked about hair removal. Like someone said, hair removal all that. Yep. We don't like hair, I guess.

Katie: 20:34

Yeah. And you know what? Neither do boys boys are removing their hair all the time. The gay ones and the straight ones.

Amy: 20:41

Yep, that is true. Okay, I have a couple that are hilarious and so gross. And I can say them now. Or I can say them at the ends. You tell me if you have any more?

Katie: 20:53

No, I think I go for it. Let's hear him. Okay,

Amy: 20:57

so here are two ones that when I saw these, I was literally freaked out. And I couldn't. Okay, so one person said, taking a peek at my poop. When? When I know it was a good one. Makes me feel extra good. literally dying. laughs

Katie: 21:17

I've done that. Absolutely. That's so funny. I love that somebody wrote that. Thank you for that one.

Amy: 21:24

So that is hilarious. And then the last one I'll say which I had never heard of before. Was pH balanced vagina soap. Ah. And I was like, What the heck. And they're, I guess is special. So for your privates that's supposed to be better than regular soap. And this person said, they use that soap and then I asked for the brand because I was interested. And I have the brands, which we can put in the notes but the brand is it's a natural brands called referral R A E L natural filming feminine wash. Nice. And it's supposed to be a natural wash. That's good for your private say that either nice as like, wow. Okay, I'm learning things here. So those were my last two that I wanted to spring, Dave the

Katie: 22:15

best for last. Absolutely. That's great. Well, thank you to all of our listeners and our followers on Insta for sending those in. Because, I mean, those are some great

Amy: 22:28

unsexy, there's some really good ones. And I have to say, I think we should continue this series because I think it's hilarious. And I do think it's important to talk about this stuff, because it's not all about looking good and feeling good. There's also things that we do that are self care to take care of herself that aren't so cute, but everybody does them and everybody can relate. So it's really fun to kind of round it up and hear what people do. And I think we should continue to talk about this unsexy side of self care. Okay, so this week, Katie, you have a product review that I'm super excited to hear about.

Katie: 22:56

I do so speaking of unsexy Ness, this product saved me recently, so we've all been horribly hungover at one time or another. I was recently in Miami for a friend's 40th. And I knew it was going to be a little bit out of control. I was terrified of my hangover, because one day was like an all day into a nighter. So we all know how those can be. This product is called cheers, health. And they claim to help with your hangover. You take this pill, these capsules before you go to bed once you're finished drinking, and they say that you will feel at least 50% better the next morning than you usually do. So if you normally when you're hungover wake up at 50% Feeling you know 50% alive, you take this you'll be 100% it, it works because it reduces GABA rebound, lowers alcohol induced acid to La hide toxicity levels, and it supports the liver when it's been exposed to alcohol. So I kind of dug in and researched what all that means it essentially helps flush out your liver faster and detox. But here's the big one. It metabolizes alcohol faster than your body naturally can. So while you're sleeping, usually it's just like a slower uptake to metabolize it. That's why it's kind of still in that your system the next day but you're not necessarily drunk. You're just feeling horrible and dehydrated. This This helps you metabolize it. And if you do that, I did it in conjunction with some electrolytes before I went to bed, I was not hungover. i And when I say it was a long day. We started at 11am and we ended in the wee hours of the morning. I mean a fun, it was fun. It was fabulous. We were on a boat in Miami. It was the best oh my god, but I was like dreading the next day because we were traveling the next day. So yeah, I'm always smart about it.

Amy: 24:57

Is it natural? Or is it like what kind of stuff isn't? it okay so

Katie: 25:01

it is natural. It has like a lot of vitamins vitamin C E, thymine B six B 12. It has sodium and potassium, Vine tea extract, which is you know, the metabolism to go through it faster. That's 100% Natural. Milk Thistle natural. I've taken milk thistle before to detox my liver. Have you ever done that? Yeah. Prickly Pear. Ginger. So yeah, it's it's completely natural. And is

Amy: 25:27

it just a pill and you just take it you said? Yeah, it's our night of drinking or whatever. Yeah,

Katie: 25:31

you take it. Once you're finished drinking two to four capsules a night. I did. I think I did two capsules. I thought four was gonna be a little strong. I was afraid it was gonna keep me awake. And the whole bottle I want to say it came with like 16 I think it was $30 for a bottle $35 You can get it straight through Cheers health.com or on Amazon. And let me tell you, if you don't want to be hungover, get this stuff. Take it in conjunction with some electrolytes before you go to bed, eat some carbs and you'll feel great

Amy: 25:57

adding to cart as we speak.

Katie: 25:59

Right. Good stuff.

Amy: 26:01

I love that. I have not heard of that. And I definitely want to use that because yeah, those hangovers and also I feel like when you're drinking too you don't sleep well. Did you sleep okay, because you know, sometimes you're like up and kind of feeling like sweaty and yucky.

Katie: 26:15

Yeah, no, I actually did I slept really well. And that what you just said the sweaty like you like you know how you wake up a new pet a little too much to drink. And you are like your heart's racing and you kind of sweaty. I didn't get that at all. I slept great. I woke up feeling fine. I was just tired. I mean, I also was drinking responsibly. You know, for every drink. I had like a glass of water and I drink electrolytes throughout the day. And I was eating well, but but still still I would have without a doubt been hungover without it.

Amy: 26:41

Yeah, tired you can deal with it's the the hangover is the worst. So that's great. I'm definitely trying that one. Yeah. So thanks for that review. Love it.

Katie: 26:51

So yeah, great product, highly recommend it. Amy. You have a bunch of for us. I'd love to hear it.

Amy: 26:56

I do. And I think this one is very appropriate for our conversation today. So the mantra is, start where you are, use what you have and do what you can.

Katie: 27:06

Amen to that.

Amy: 27:07

That's the truth. Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for listening to this week's episode and let us know what you thought about this format and we will talk to you next week. Thanks everyone.

Katie: 27:18

Bye friends.

Amy: 27:20

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 6 - A Home That Nurtures Your Well-Being With Zoe Feldman (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 6 - A Home That Nurtures Your Well-Being With Zoe Feldman.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Zoe: 0:00

I'm so impressed that you guys you have this whole thing down. It's so

Katie: 0:04

we're having fun with it

Amy: 0:14

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty. Hi,

Katie: 0:26

I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:31

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started.

Katie: 0:43

In today's episode, we chatted with Zoe Feldman of Zoe Feldman design. Zoe is a phenomenal interior designer. She has been at the game for 15 years on the East Coast. She graduated from Parsons in New York City and worked under internationally renowned interior designer Alexa Hampton for the beginning of her career. She's full of great tips.

Amy: 1:09

Yes, she did. Katie and I really loved her advice on giving your home a cozy vibe. And guys make sure to stay tuned until the end because she gave us great insider tips and what city she is currently inspired by. And also listen to find out how she gives back to the environment. Because I was really inspired by that. So here we go. Welcome Zoe to Nirvana sisters, we're so happy you're here. Thanks for joining us.

Zoe: 1:34

Thanks for having really. Hi, Katie. Hi, Amy.

Amy: 1:38

Hi. So good to see you and hear your voice. And we are going to be talking to you about all things, designing a home, but specifically how to design a home that really nurtures your well being and makes you feel really good when you're in your space and makes you feel cozy and balanced and calm. And I know that you're really good at that, which is why we wanted to talk to you on the show all about it.

Zoe: 2:04

Well, you know, and if I'm not, so that's good to hear that I am.

Amy: 2:09

We usually start the shows though with something called a weekly nirvana. And it's really just a way for us to talk about like, what was our high moment of the week, what was something positive that happened little or big, that just brought us a little nirvana or joy or happiness to our week, so I can start, this one is kind of relevant to our theme today. So I got Zoa, you'll be very proud of me. I bought a new rug for my home office, which very well, and you did your decorator I didn't I didn't call you. I made you know, an executive decision. And I bought a sheepskin rug, which is so cozy. And it's my Nirvana the week because I got it not expecting much. It was like I found it on a deal on Overstock. And I got it and it's gorgeous. And it's big. And it's like, every time I walk in my office, my feet when I walk on that carpet or the rug, it's so soft and cozy. I feel like I'm like walking on a cloud is so amazing. So every time I walk in, I'm just like, Ah, I feel so good. And now my dogs like obsessed and napping in it all day long. So that was my Nirvana that week. It was such a fun little thing to have. So love that you'd appreciate that. What about UK?

Katie: 3:20

Mine, we decided mid school year to put my preschool or my three year old into school. We kept her home because of COVID. And now I just feel like you know, vaccines are being administered and the schools are staying pretty healthy. And she has been begging me to go to school. So we're gonna do it. She's gonna go two days a week, but she's just so happy. I mean, it's I'm mine nirvana is because of her happiness with it. And also, I'm super psyched. It's going to open up my schedule to dive more into nirvana sisters, which I'm really excited about. Yeah, so what about yours?

Zoe: 3:51

Well, I thought about mine, briefly. And this was I feel like an unusually tough week for the country. So it was a little harder to think of things but mine is I think a little bit in line with yours, Katie, and that my two and a half year old is starting to successfully potty train. Oh. Free School. She goes two days a week as well. Without a pull up on and she didn't pee in her pants.

Amy: 4:17

Oh my god. Yeah.

Zoe: 4:19

So that was Major. That's mage. Yeah, it's pretty major. We're just I feel like my friends were over last night and one of them was changing their baby's diaper like their Cheerios diaper. And I was like secretly thinking, Oh, I think I don't have to do this much longer. So yeah, that's

Katie: 4:37

great. Nice. Okay.

Amy: 4:38

All right. Well, congrats.

Katie: 4:40

Yeah, congrats. Let's dive into this quickfire because we just want our listener to get to know you a little bit. For starters, you're an amazing interior designer. How long have you been at it?

Zoe: 4:51

And okay, so 22 years, which I hadn't have now allowed and makes me sound like I'm 70 I'm not Yes. already when I was like 12 started very young. And yes, I've been doing it for a really long time. Right?

Katie: 5:07

I didn't ask. So you got into the business, just it was something that you decided you want to do in college, you went to Parsons, is that right?

Zoe: 5:14

I went to Syracuse for undergrad, and no, I didn't, I thought it'd be a journalist. And then I didn't get into I didn't even attempt to get into new house, the traditional way, which would have been which new house is an incredibly good journalism school that I did not qualify for directly out of high school. And I was told that you could get in a bit easier once you get into school. And anyway, I never even bothered to try and get him when I was in college. Kind of really wanted to be a journalist. But anyway, but I took a job in advertising my first year out of school, and was terrible at it, and realized I hated commercials and felt like I needed a new job. And so that's when I went back to school, I thought I'd do fashion. And then my mom reminded me just that I always kind of noticed when she would change something in the house or, and thought, Oh, what about an interior design, which I don't for some reason I never thought of as a career. And so then I looked into a program at Parsons and enrolled in the program. And because it was more of like, a continuing education type program was a certificate program. I had a bunch of free time. So then I so I guess I was about 22. So then I asked my mom's fancy friend who lived in Manhattan, who are like the best interior designers, and she gave me a few names. And one of them was Mark Hampton. And I called and got an internship there.

Katie: 6:30

So amazing. What a great place. Your Career. Yeah. Fantastic. So what what would you say? Is your aesthetic? What's your favorite way to style a home? If you have, you know, one signature aesthetic?

Zoe: 6:44

You know, that's such a hard question. Because I don't think we have a signature aesthetic and the way that some firms or some designers where you can sort of always, like always kind of tell their work, I think that our work is a little bit more evolving. And, but I think that there is a signature and that we tend to do, we tend to use a lot of tension in our work. So we like to create timeless spaces, but also modernize them. So I think that's probably present in all of our work. We also use color in different ways, which I think people notice a lot. I think at the end of the day, we're probably modernists and that we like things to feel irrelevant, but I don't know. That's kind of like, I don't know that we have like a signature look.

Katie: 7:30

Yeah, I mean, I love your style. From what I get exactly what you're saying. It's like it's classic. You're without a doubt classic and chic, but still have a modernity to it. And it's fun. You're it's very like Amy's house is so fun and sexy, but still really laid back and organic. It's beautiful.

Zoe: 7:46

Thank you and a lot of is the client and the building that we're working in. Right. So I think we really pay attention to that. And that excites us, we get excited to be working in like different periods or different types of homes and things so nice.

Amy: 7:59

Nice Zoe, what is your number one tip for making a home feel cozy and warm and uplifting? Because when we talk about kind of feeling happy in your home, like what do you think those elements are?

Zoe: 8:12

I think it's important for it not to feel what would be the word like to static Hmm. So I think that it's important to inject yourself into right so you don't want to walk into space and not understand all who the person is. This is my personal feeling right? I want to walk into space. And as I explore the space have some understanding of who the person is like, whether that's through a book collection or a decorative collection or through it like photos. So I think making sure that you infuse your personality into it is important. I think art helps to warm a space very much. It kind of for me is the finishing touch on any space I think without art it tends to feel pretty sad. I think Amy and I experienced that we're at the end we're like okay, let's get some art up and like get all of that going. I fresh flowers I think make or even like forged flowers right like going or forge branches and things like having greenery like because that's like a lie. I think so probably flowers like right so greenery. Yeah, I think probably really good beds really comfy beds. That's a good one.

Katie: 9:22

The greenery and the flowers. It's such a good tip though because it's so accessible and easy. It can be done at any given point, right?

Zoe: 9:27

Yeah, I mean I go out to my backyard and do it. Nice. Just grab some branches and they get end up getting really sculptural and and it's free.

Amy: 9:38

Yeah. And it brings in that that warmth and to your point. feeling that something alive is in your house and warming it up. What about favorite products are like I'd like to say like a hack for the home like if someone just wants to kind of have a few things to bring into their home that makes it feel cozy. I mean, is it like candles is like what are the things like little objects or pieces that they could bring in. I mean, we sort of talked about it. But is there anything else you can think of that could just, you know, transform the space a bit?

Zoe: 10:09

Yeah. So I think foraging for, for branches and things like that outside is a quick and easy one that everyone is obviously free. Yeah, I think scented candles are nice lighting a candle seasonally. I mean, obviously, having a working fireplace is always going to help. Whether it's gas or wood burning, I guess wood burning gives a little bit more of that cozy smell and feel. But we can all get behind as to, I think making sure that you have large enough runs, you mentioned rugs in the beginning, making certain that your rugs are large and comfy and things like that, that tends to cozy up the space pretty quickly. And also I think window treatments people I know don't really want to spend the money on Window Treatments much because they are they can get pretty expensive though there's a lot of ways now I think that you can do more off the rack, but they do tend to coziest space.

Katie: 10:57

Now, something I noticed about Amy's home is that it's it has that like really natural organic feel. And I think that's also because Amy you spoke to wanting to pull on that like West Coast California style. But what are some textiles or you know, fabrications that they bring in that natural organic feel? Because he has you have a lot of white you have is it? Is it linen that I see like what what are the textiles that the listener could could put on their sofa or, you know, a wood color that they might want to use?

Zoe: 11:27

Yeah, so if you're looking for kind of more of what like a kind of Cali like organic vibe, right thing, you want to stay in a kind of organic palette. And I think that's it's important to understand that, that doesn't mean that at all does have to be white or natural. There's a lot of tones like ochre, which is like a really deep yellow, or russet, which is going to be like a really warm red orange like a kind of like a burnt like cayenne type of color. All of greens, which we actually did use it Amias. So there's a lot of organic tones that are outside of those neutrals. But yeah, I think thinking about more casual and textural fabrics, so linens and like raw linens, and like blue clays and like wovens versus things like silks and velvets, right? So that's going to feel more organic when it comes to woods, I think just like less polished, right? So you're going to want to be using oaks like white oaks or walnut. But not probably like a zebra or a super like high polish finish on a word. Right? You want to keep things a little imperfect. But yeah, so I think it's more just about keep like textural is probably about

Amy: 12:40

what about I know that you and your team have an initiative to be environmentally friendly and using green products. So I'd love to hear about that. And I also read in business of home about your consultation fee idea, which I love. So if you could just kind of talk about the environmental stuff you're doing as a company, I think it would be really interesting to hear.

Zoe: 13:00

Yeah, so a few years ago, I just My father was actually doing it. He was a periodontist. And he wanted to give back to the community. So he figured out a way to get back with a one to one. And I kept thinking, oh, I need to figure out a way to give back because I like many people. Sadly, I wasn't I didn't become aware of it quick enough. But maybe four or five years ago, I realized, oh God, the Earth is burning. And we need to figure out how to make that stop. And then I realized that what we're doing is highly impactful. And that we have an opportunity to help reduce waste just within ourselves like in our own little firm. So we started thinking about it and realize, well, first of all, just sort of simple things we can do that the listener can do as well is rather than constantly be purchasing new product, we started looking a lot toward vintage. This is sort of before we figured out how to do our actual giveback. And so we kind of committed to trying to do about 80% Vintage that year. And also looking at clients existing things to think of how we can use their pieces rather than just get rid of them, how we can re upholster them, refinish them those sorts. So that was kind of like the beginning. And then people started telling me I should charge for my consultation fee as I was getting bigger, because it would weed people out. And that just didn't feel right to me. For some reason, I just kind of didn't also want to have to like give a whole bunch of advice the first hour because I tend to have to marinate on things anyway. And I thought, oh God, if I charge them, they're gonna expect so much more. And I don't really want to deal with that. So I didn't want to do that. But then I did think Well, I am going for free. And I could just charge a small fee and that could be 100 that can be donated, like fully donated, and that could be the way that we get back. So that's where what we launched and so we basically charged 250 I think we're upping it to 275 and the new year. Yeah, it's generally my rate. And so and it's donated to one of four charities that switch yearly. Some we retain if one hasn't done well, we might pivot and pick Have a new charity. But the idea is that the person purchasing the consultation fee goes online and looks at the for charities in an in an effort or in a hope that they might say, Oh, wow, Charity Water, I'd heard about our Sierra Club, whatever it is, I'm going to start giving to that because we tend to be with more high net worth clients who can give way more than 250 or 275? Ultimately. So that's sort of the goal in an effort to spread it. And then if they sign with us, we match it.

Amy: 15:30

That's nice.

Zoe: 15:31

Yeah, yeah, that's sort of our effort. And then we also quarterly plant trees in an effort to offset our carbon footprint. So it's kind of fun, you can go on our site, and there's like a little ticker. This we've planted this ministry has gotten this message, charity. And when there's a major catastrophic event, which has been often lately, we'll pivot like when Australia was burning that month, we gave only to Australia. And now that COVID is happening, we've been giving to children to feed children. So we also look at kind of, it might rotate with what's going on in the world.

Amy: 16:04

So and do you have information on your website?

Zoe: 16:07

Yeah, I'm really effort is to show like small businesses, that we can also make a big impact, you know, and like, I'm not going to make as big of an impact as PwC, or you know, Google, but it all helps. So and I think it's a little more conscious. And I think our whole team has lived more consciously because of that.

Katie: 16:26

That's so inspiring. I think I saw on your site that you've planted a few 1000 trees. Yeah. That's great. Yeah,

Zoe: 16:35

that's, that's fine. It reminds me that we used to plant trees for Israel. Do you remember that? Amy?

Amy: 16:40

I do remember that each other a long time. And so where do you find your inspiration? Like, what sources do you use? What websites like what Instagram feeds? Like? How do you kind of keep reinventing? Because I see all the beautiful work that you have been putting out and all the press you've been getting? And I just, you know, it's always different. And it's always fresh. And just how do you what, what inspires you? And where do you get it from?

Zoe: 17:06

Ah, it's so funny. So I'm inspired, I would say, I get into, like black holes, like I'm currently very inspired by Parisian design. So I'm that I'm in a Parisian moment where I think everything else sucks. And if it's not Paris, it does. It's not even worth it. And I get into the holes in those things. And then I want everything to be this way. But then I look for that. And I move on to the next thing.

Amy: 17:31

You know, I feel like when we work together with Morocco, yeah, exactly.

Zoe: 17:35

So and it's still Morocco, I don't like actually lose them, I just move on, but I hold on to them as like, they'll always live in my inspirational world, they just won't be quite as present or maybe at the forefront. So I think I just, I'm also very inspired by history. So I look back a lot at designers from the past. And also I might look at like historic flooring or historic buildings to inspire how I do work. Art is a big inspiration for me mostly with like color palette. And then I follow some people on Instagram who I think are doing really, really beautiful work, and can be highly influenced by that as well.

Katie: 18:18

Would you say that, like a starting point for someone if they wanted to decorate a room is to what you said with art, if they have a great piece of art, they look there, and they pull colors from that. And that's how they'll get their palette for a room.

Zoe: 18:31

Yeah, I think that's helpful, I think of it as a little more abstract, where like, you could you could look at politics or Rothko's, or something like this, and just be inspired by a palette. And that could set the tone for a room too. So you don't have to actually have the piece of art. Most of us aren't lucky enough to have a Rothko hanging on our wall. But more sort of like that, I think fashion does the same thing. I find myself taking actually find myself taking a lot of photos like I rewatched Mad Men recently, and found a lot of color inspiration in Jones outfits. So I look at things like that too, right? And I'm like, Oh, she's putting orange with the hot pink and I write I need to do this. And it doesn't always translate into interiors. And it translates differently even when it does translate. So you know, you have to consider that but kind of more abstract in that way. And

Amy: 19:22

that that says, Oh, do you just work in the DC area? Or do you work all over?

Zoe: 19:27

All over? So we're currently working on an apartment in New York and in the city. And we have done place in the Hamptons, Florida. I'm working on another place in the north work of New York, of Long Island, Michigan. And then the DMV like Eastern Shore and Annapolis like

Amy: 19:51

have you seen a lot of good momentum in your business since all of this Corona stuff because I feel like so many people are focused on their home and making it better because they're actually having time to spend in it.

Zoe: 20:04

Yeah, so sad. I'm not sad that I felt sort of guilty about because we have seen a spike in business. And that was a little bit hard for me actually, I felt guilty. And then I realized, well, the world would be way worse if there weren't people thriving in this moment. And thriving is the wrong word. But if there weren't if people's business, if some businesses if all businesses were doing poorly, we would be in a much worse experience. So we make an effort, because we feel very blessed in that. Yes, that is true. More people are in their homes, and we tend to work with a less affected population. Which is unfair, I understand. But it's just the reality. And so we've it's actually put us in a position where we work a lot harder to get back because of it. Over the holidays. We did like 500 sandwiches for Martha's Table. And we've done that a few times we've we've donated as a team like groceries and things like this. So we try and use that. But yeah, we have seen a spike in business.

Amy: 21:03

Yeah, and I love all the stuff that you guys are doing, like we talked about before for the environment, but also just giving back in general, because to your point, you are a small business and growing. And it is nice to see that small businesses can also make a difference. It's not just the big businesses and taking inspiration from you people listening can do something in their own home or in their own business to make a difference, because every little thing counts. So I love that.

Zoe: 21:26

And I'll tell you like speaking to the Nirvana thing, which I used to be afraid of things like this, like, Oh, can I afford to get back? Can I you know, all these sorts of things. And what it is shown me as the small bit that we give back, because it's not that much, right? It's it really isn't. Has, it's grown our business so much. It's done so much because it establishes trust on the front end between us and the client where I am like, oh, you're a good person. You're there's people who don't want to do the donation. And I'm like, Okay, well, I don't want to work for you. Right? You're clearly terrible. So are you serious? So it weeds that part out? And then I think for the client, it's like, okay, so she's not also like a terrible person, right? She's doing something. So she's probably going to be pretty fair. And like, she's a conscious person. And so I think that helps and to establish that trust. And I think also probably just karmically or like the whole energy thing, which I guess you guys are pretty into just like giving right you just end up receiving a lot back. You don't hold it so tight. Yeah, it feels so good. Yeah. And so I think, you know, we don't overthink it. And we just give and it seems to work out. So I would encourage people to do that I

Katie: 22:36

I have to say thank you for giving back as much as you guys are, because that's just really cool. It's I mean, it's so inspiring to meet somebody that you are basing your business around such positivity, and just helping the world. It's really if I was to choose, if I had two designers in front of me and I liked both of their aesthetics, I would go with you hands down for that reason alone, but unless your sparkling personality.

Zoe: 23:01

Well, it all has to weave together. But yes, the deciding vote.

Amy: 23:07

So before we get into our quick little wrap session with you, how do people get in touch with you if they want to reach out?

Zoe: 23:15

There is on our website, there's an intake form. So you fill that out. And you tell us a little bit about you and a little bit about your project. And then we assess it to determine if it's a good fit for us. If it's not a good fit. We'll we have other designers that we like and we'll refer the client or the potential clients then. Otherwise, yeah, we come out we do the whole, you have to give money to the charity that would come out and we'd make a plan to come out and see you. But yeah, it's all through the website.

Amy: 23:42

Nice. Okay, so two quick questions before we wrap up. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Zoe: 23:50

I was thinking about this. A hack. Wait, so can you give me an example of like a hack? Like do I have to make it myself? Or what does

Amy: 23:59

that mean? I don't know like a shortcut like something

Zoe: 24:04

like Botox. Yeah,

Amy: 24:07

that's a good one.

Zoe: 24:12

Give me an example.

Amy: 24:13

I just actually saw something on tick tock because I get a lot of hacks from there where if you you didn't have there's all these teeth whitening things and whatever. But if you just gargle with hydrogen peroxide, peroxide, and you mix it with water, it does the same thing. And it's like, you know, 10 bucks a bottle. Oh, no way. So I've been doing that. Yeah, so just

Zoe: 24:33

bad thing. Yeah, I didn't know that. beauty hack, because I'm like, kind of a beauty. Like I probably spend too much on beauty products.

Amy: 24:43

And me too. Do you have like a favorite beauty product? Okay,

Zoe: 24:46

brilliant. Using bombs there and I have like 7000 like drunken elephant does it and I think it's called like one love or something. All these different products and I think beauty counter didn't first where they have that. It's like oil base. to your face dry, and then you take it off of the washcloth and it looks like a lot of what balm, a cleansing balm. Oh, I haven't used that before, right. So you have you put it on dry face and then and kind of massage it in

Amy: 25:13

lieu. Sounds so relaxing

Zoe: 25:16

and like super helpful. I also think highlighter is very helpful, which I don't have on right now.

Katie: 25:21

But love a good highlighter.

Zoe: 25:24

I love a good highlighter. I didn't mind bleeding recently. I didn't hate that

Amy: 25:30

micro needling or micro bleeding.

Zoe: 25:33

Micro bleeding, I think right? Or neither. I think it's bleeding to the eyebrows anyway. Oh,

Amy: 25:40

okay.

Zoe: 25:41

I'm here for all of that. I don't know, but I tend to spend too much money on that stuff. So

Amy: 25:47

yeah, now, I feel you on that one.

Unknown: 25:51

I can't do the DIY part. Now is it's more just

Amy: 25:54

like a shortcut or like something you love. Your go to your holy grail product stuff, like,

Zoe: 26:00

get the cleansing balm find it? Yeah,

Amy: 26:02

I'm gonna I'm gonna look for one. And then how do you maintain your daily nirvana? Your daily flow? Like, how do you kind of stay balanced? Yeah.

Zoe: 26:11

Well, I used to do Transcendental Meditation. Wow, I did. I did the whole course. It did the whole thing. I did it for years. And I loved it ever since I had children, that finding the 20 minutes twice a day is like impossible. So I don't do that anymore. Sadly, I will. I think I will take that back at some point. But I get up early earlier than my family. And for me, that's helpful because it gives me an opportunity to their workout, or to drink coffee alone and have no one bother me. Or to take a steam shower. You know, something? Oh, steam shower. That's the joint. Yeah, you guys don't have one. And afford it. I didn't think I'd like it. All right. But something like that, I think grounds me to start my day. Because otherwise I'm a pretty disorganized person in my brain, like meaning I've add and if I don't, I'm not that regimented. And so I think having that little bit in the morning kind of starts my day, and I can think through it. And otherwise, I'll just dive in and Miss like everything I was meant to do and do a whole bunch of shit I didn't need to do so.

Katie: 27:16

Yeah, that's, that's a great one. You're kind of just getting up and like getting your mind straight for the day. I do the same thing. Yeah, love that. Yeah. It's the best. Yeah, it's it's worth every minute of sleep last to wake up a little bit earlier.

Zoe: 27:31

Yeah. And when I miss doing it, I noticed a difference in my day.

Katie: 27:35

Yeah, same.

Amy: 27:36

Yeah, that makes sense. What about you guys? What

Zoe: 27:38

do you do for your nirvana?

Amy: 27:40

I would say like movement every day, at least 20 minutes like something, whether it's walking, working out Pilates, running anything, just some sort of movement makes me have a better day for sure. I'm also breathing exercises and meditation and things like that. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 27:57

I think catching a little bit of alone time throughout my day, if I can, you know if I can get 20 or 30 minutes here or there throughout the day to just kind of reset and you know, process my thoughts and like, decompress. Then I'm, I'm just I'm a better mom. I'm a better friend. I'm a better wife. I'm just a better person, because I'm more in tune to myself in my needs and what I gotta do to get through that day.

Amy: 28:22

Yeah, a lot of time is crucial. Yeah,

Zoe: 28:26

I'm totally with you on that. And no guilt about that.

Amy: 28:30

Exactly. It's self care. You need it. So thank you for coming on the show. We it's just so inspiring listening to you. And it's good to hear you and see you at least virtually for now. It's been a while. But thank you so much for coming on. This was so great. And so cool to hear about all the intricacies of what's happening and congratulations on all the success and well thanks

Zoe: 28:54

for hanging out with me before I had all this great success. So you are you're an early adopter early adapter Exactly.

Amy: 29:04

And you're now an honorary Nirvana sister. Yes.

Katie: 29:07

Amy I am super excited about this review because you know, I'm obsessed with it. So go ahead. What do you have for us this week?

Amy: 29:15

Sozo. I think you'll love this too. So there's a company that does weighted blankets called bear OB and I found them a couple years ago and it is first of all, if you don't if you haven't experienced a weighted blanket before it's just like having a big hug on you. It feels so amazing. And when you put it on you feel it it really calms you down like speaking of add Zoey, it's like and like a lot of people that have ADHD or like focusing issues like put this on them because it really calms you and it's it's just it they say it's like a sensation of being cuddled lowers stress and anxiety because it reduces your cortisol so it makes you feel calm and relaxed. So the reason why I like bearer B though is because it has a beautiful design. And then it looks great in the home. So over a bed over sofa. It's like this big chunky knit. And it's really soft and breathable because most of these blankets are like thick and heavy and make you hot but this is super breathable. It's all natural 100% organic cotton. It's also sourced ethically and sustainably. And the colors are gorgeous. I have a few of them. I have a light gray and charcoal and I have one in my bedroom and one in our guest room. And yeah, I mean it says scientific research shows that sleeping under an evenly distributed weight brings a deeper more natural sleep cycle. And that being cocooned releases serotonin making you feel positively happy. So I love this brand. And I'll let Katie talk about it too, because I know she does too.

Katie: 30:47

Yeah, the the therapy blanket I first used it when I was staying at Amy's house and I slept better than I think I ever have in my entire life. Wow, I got one as soon as we got home and I am like religious about sleeping with it. I think you know we've we've touched on it before I have autoimmunity and it is it affects my hormones. So like you said how it lowers your cortisol, it also releases serotonin and dopamine. And I think that's the reason why I love it so much. Because my hormones are kind of screwed up in that area. And I just I mean, I sleep like a rock. It's, it's, it's amazing. And it's also organic cotton. So it's really breathable, really soft. And loving.

Amy: 31:30

And it's an it's really pretty and like cozy. So that's my my favorite and my product review of the week, but I thought you'd enjoy that. So a maybe you could incorporate it into something you're doing. I actually

Zoe: 31:40

have follow up questions.

Amy: 31:42

Yes. Okay. Ask away.

Zoe: 31:45

So is it like a throw that you incorporate just like on top of you with like a Dubay or something? I was like, how do you sleep with it? I'm now about to buy one. So I'm trying to understand we

Amy: 31:58

have different sizes. So I think they range from like $150 to 250 or so depending on the size. So they have one for kids, they have one that's like they call a Napper. So it's just kind of like if you're napping on the sofa, and then they have a bigger one that you could use in bed. It's not as big as a comforter. I don't even know how big it is. But it's probably good for one person, I would say one ish person. And then I just saw on their website today that they now have a comforter, but it's not the same material. It's just probably like a weighted comforter.

Zoe: 32:26

I'm looking at that now. It's it can be up to 25 pounds. Wow. Yeah,

Amy: 32:30

yeah. So it's like if you if you have the napper and you have it on your sofa, and you just throw it there. It looks good. But then you put it on and watch TV and you're like, Oh, this is so relaxing. It just enhances everything.

Zoe: 32:41

Oh, wow. I like feel like all children should have this. Yeah, yeah, my

Katie: 32:45

kids love it. Yeah, the way that I sleep with mine is I put the sheet on. And then the weighted blanket, which it is the one that I have is just my size, it's for me. And then if I'm still caught, I use the comforter that my husband's using. So it's great because he's a major like, you know, blanket hog all night long. I'm usually wrestling him for the blankets. And now I don't have to. So do you have a 15 or 20 pound? I have the 15 and you have the 20 and I realized that I bought the wrong weight because I love the 20 I even think I would like to 25 If I get another one. I might do the 25

Amy: 33:19

Yeah. Oh, it's great. Your love. It's right up your alley.

Zoe: 33:24

This is exciting.

Amy: 33:28

And then before we close out, we also like to close with a mantra or kind of a saying of the week just to kind of, you know, wrap it up nice. Yeah. So Katie, I think you have one.

Katie: 33:38

I do. I think this one is if you take it in a literal sense. It's really apropos with having Zoey here. So me the space between where I am and where I want to be inspire me. Oh, all right. You can use it, I guess, metaphorically, would that be the right word or literally and I don't know. It just makes me think of us trying to build these beautiful spaces with so he's helped today and living in a place that is peaceful and makes you happy. let it inspire you right. Yes.

Zoe: 34:14

I love everything you guys are doing.

Amy: 34:16

Thank you. So let's talk. Let's talk again, thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness and you do so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 4 - Family Series - Part 1 - Fit Model To Fit Life (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 4.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Hi, Amy. So we are actually in person today, which is amazing because we normally do this over our internet and we see each other virtually. And so we are together for the holidays. And we're doing something called a family series. So this is going to be family Series Part One and Part Two, we're gonna do another day and it's gonna be very exciting. So Katie, now you're in person, we're going to talk all things Nirvana sisters, and have some special fun while we're home.

Katie: 1:07

Yeah, home for the holidays. And I'm so excited to be here we have our whole family with us and the kids. And that's gonna kick it off. We're going to bring in our children and and we're going to pick their brains a little bit and see what their nirvana is.

Amy: 1:22

Yeah. And before we do that, Kitty, and I've been reflecting a lot on 2020 and thinking about how fun it's been to do this show and so excited for 2021 where we have a whole lineup of special guests in the wellbeing and beauty and business space. And we're excited to share that with you. But before we do that, let's bring in Jackson who is 13 Jules, who is how are you Jules? That's right. I always forget your lovin Natty. How are you? I'm southern. And Reese. How old are you? And re Wow. Okay. So for our new listeners, and for those who already listened to us, you know, we do something called our nirvana of the week, which is our high point of the week and we talk about it on the podcast. So this week, we thought we would do it with our kids and talk about the highlight of the year. So we're gonna start with Jackson, what was your highlight of 2020?

Katie: 2:21

Well, since COVID happened, I got this. I mean, I got to play video games, all my friends. So that's good. Okay,

Amy: 2:27

good highlight of the year and what are you looking forward to in for next year? Maybe the vaccine? Oh, that's a good thing tonight for that. I like that. Okay, now we're gonna turn to miss Mattie.

Katie: 2:38

Man, I'm what was your highlight of 2020? What was your nirvana?

Unknown: 2:43

Okay, so probably since this virus thing happened. I would probably just in now zoom. What's one my friends? Oh, yes.

Katie: 2:57

Zoom. calling your friends. Yeah.

Amy: 3:00

That's a great one. And what about next year? What are you looking forward to next year?

Unknown: 3:04

Well, doing like, we're not adding this

Katie: 3:09

virus. Yeah. So just being able to be with people be back in school and everything. Yeah,

Amy: 3:15

I agree. Good one. Okay. Next we have Jules, who is 11.

Unknown: 3:21

Okay, so my high of the year is probably when we went I went to the beach with my cousin's. Because I don't know, I just love the beach and everything.

Amy: 3:37

Good. Okay, and Jules, what are you looking forward to in 2021?

Unknown: 3:42

I'm looking forward to the virus stopping because I can see my friends in person. And I'm still seeing my best friend. But all my other friends I'm not allowed to see. So I would like to see them. That's a good,

Amy: 3:57

that's a good one. I like that. Okay. Hey, Reesie. Do

Katie: 4:00

you think you want to answer the question? So let's see. I think maybe I could say for you for for 2020. I thought one of your highlights was also being intimate with your cousin. So it was so much fun. And I know you're looking forward to being able to go to preschool next year, right. Oh, you're

Amy: 4:15

going to preschool next year racy. Okay. Thanks, guys. So, Katie, I am super excited to have this conversation with you. Because I feel like we've had this conversation over the years, but I've never gotten the full story. Because we're always distracted or always running around. We never get to sit and just chat. So I want to hear about how you became a model kind of how it all started, what the journey was, and kind of take us back to where it all began for

Katie: 4:47

you. Yeah, I would. I would love to share with how I started because it was a little wild and bizarre how it happened from my perspective. So for whatever reason, I'm really not sure why but at some point when I As a younger teenager, I started to get this vision of wanting to move to New York someday. And I don't know, I guess I didn't think I had that much more going for me. So modeling was like the way to do it. So literally every single night before I would fall asleep, my way of falling asleep at night, I close my eyes. And I like Daydream in my head. And I would imagine exactly that happening like delay starting modeling in Cincinnati and agency picking me up. moving me to New York, we started your career in New York as a model. Like I would vividly detail. Imagine it happening, like every night, and now it helped me like law into asleep. So it was like a manifestation. It was like a manifestation. It happened the exact same way that I jumped at it like glad literally the exact same way.

Amy: 5:51

I never knew that. Yeah. So So you just naturally just that was just in your dreams, and sort of in your hopes and wishes and you just start thinking about it. And then it happened. It happened. That is so cool. I

Katie: 6:02

remember I heard that. But I think it was my first year in college, and my boyfriend was saying you should get into modeling. And I said always wanted to so I got an agency. And I had a couple small jobs in Cincinnati, Ohio. Wait, backtrack?

Amy: 6:12

How did you get an agency like how does it work? Thursday,

Katie: 6:15

I literally just went to an open call for an agency where they say like, you know, this Saturday morning, if you want to be a model come to our agency, and you wait in line with a couple of other people. Yeah, and they take your picture and they just interview yo, and then they set you up with a photographer after that if they like yo and the photographer was shoot, yo. And if they think you have something they pick you up. Cool. And so that's what they did. And I started getting small jobs. I had like a billboard on the side of the expressway. I heard about that one. So random that made you think that's kind of

Amy: 6:48

everyone knew from that? Yeah, what was it up?

Katie: 6:51

It was for a hair salon. Okay, her local hair salon, makes a giant picture of my head with some gray hair. And then one day an agency in New York, this is what they do. They look for models by going to smaller town agencies and seeing you know what kind of talent they have. And then they pluck them and take them to New York and give them a shot. So that's what happened. I had an agency move me there and put me up in the hole.

Amy: 7:19

So how did that because that's always amazing to me. And I feel like you hear about that. But you don't really know anyone that that's happened to so the agency did they like call you one day and say, Hey, a New York agent is interested in you. Yeah. And they're gonna move you to New

Katie: 7:32

York, pretty much. They said we have someone that is showing interest. It's not a guarantee yet. And I counted them every single day until I got my answer. I was like, You need to let them know that I am all for it. And I want it and we're going to do it. And so finally, you know, they said, Yes, let's take her. And it was a small little agency wasn't that great of an agency? And when did

Amy: 7:57

they move you to New York? Like after that first year in college, or what was the timeframe?

Katie: 8:00

I left? My sophomore year of college. I moved in May. It was May right after 911. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. And my very first apartment was on Fulton Street and actually lived right down at Ground Zero. It's kind of wild. But yeah, so they moved me and put me up in an apartment with three other models. One was also from my hometown, so we knew each other. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And that's my one of my best friends. Hillary who owns boom cycle in London and we will be interviewing also

Amy: 8:31

that's so funny. I did not realize she was from your hometown. Yeah. I thought you met her in the city. Yeah, no. Okay. And Hillary now lives in London and started

Katie: 8:41

and started a cycling gym. Yes, super successful cycling. And I started getting better. It was her and another mother named Kendra. And then you know, model apartments girls come and go. And we were in this beautiful, like three bedroom with a balcony apartment. You know, so nice. Unheard on women first moving to the cities. Yeah. But here's the kicker. I was there for two months. And then they took all of us and put us in a shack of a studio crammed us in bunk beds. Oh, that's awful. Had like mice and cockroaches and shuttered in shuttled in the next round of girls and put them in that nice apartment.

Amy: 9:25

Oh, interesting. Yeah, that was their that was their deal. They put you up nice and then once they have you they like yeah, bro. You in a regular apartment. Exactly. What a T Yeah, it was a bit of a sketchy Oh, yeah.

Katie: 9:36

I didn't love them. So I was only with them for I want to say maybe like the first six months and then I started looking for an agency and I landed one of the biggest agencies in the city of New York Model Management. Oh, wow. So that was great. But I honestly was not working that much. I was doing like a little bit of catalog work and showroom. I don't know if you know showroom is. That's when you try clothesline for buyers of like Macy's He's, and they decide what they're going to put in the store. Okay, and what was the catalog for

Amy: 10:04

the catalog printer?

Katie: 10:06

Yeah, I was doing print. I also did some magazines I was doing like, it's honestly like, not super proud of it. I was getting like men's magazines who Maxim. You know, like I and that's the thing, I didn't like it right? I was really

Amy: 10:21

I want to be like a sexy type you wanted to be more? Yeah.

Katie: 10:24

And I was not I didn't, the more I was put in front of the camera, the more I realized I actually hated me in front of the camera. So what I thought I was going to love, I started to resent and not like, and I was really kind of unhappy. And then I don't even totally remember how I fell into fit modeling. I got with a different agency for one reason or another. And this was the Fit modeling agency. And it was like the perfect niche. For me, it was it was what I was meant to do, and explain to our audience what a fit model is. So fit model not to be confused with a fitness model, a fit model is a model that's literally used by the designers to drape the garment on to fit the garment to to make sure that you know the shoulder width is correct. And the sleeve is the right length and the the neck is the right width and things like that. And like how the kind of the pant looks. And for a specific size or a specific size. And they started an average size. Like you know, I was never like a five foot 11 runway model, I'm five foot seven, an average size, I was a size six. So that's what they like they like kind of like middle average size so that they can grade the garment the sizing up and down from that base point. And the whole reason why I was able to do it just because literally, it's just because I'm proportionate. That's all an interesting

Amy: 11:53

video for people with even proportion, even proportion. So then they can scale up or scale down depending on the brand. And it's funny because when I first met Katie and I didn't know what fit modeling is, and she explained it to me, I was like Oh, so that's why a size four six in. You know, I don't know, the gap fits different than J Crew fits different than a designer brand. It's all based on the Fit models. Exactly. So that's why your size may change based on brand. Yeah,

Katie: 12:20

100%. That's exactly what it is. So yeah. And that kept me busy.

Amy: 12:25

Then how was that lifestyle? Because I remember when we met when you first started dating my brother, it was a lot of you had to stay the same size. And I remember that was hard. Yeah. So talk about how that worked and what your requirements more were to stay doing fit modeling.

Katie: 12:43

Yeah, that's and really that is what started me and my like healthy life journey, my interest in taking care of myself and exercise and everything because I was measured almost daily. By multiple clients. I could walk into any client any day, and they would measure me.

Amy: 13:02

So nerve racking.

Katie: 13:05

They're also taking photos of you not like modeling pictures where you're posing for the camera, just like we're like standing like mannequin and they're taking pictures of you. And I'm going I did launch Ray, I did swimwear, I did everything. So I had to be really mindful of it. I had to watch what I was eating. I had to educate myself on nutrition, I had to understand macronutrients and micronutrients and why it's not a great idea to exist off of pasta and cookies. And I had to start exercising. And you know, I was on my feet all day long. That's literally you don't sit down you're standing

Amy: 13:39

from Yeah, I was going to ask you like, what's the daily life? Like, what time? Did you have appointments? Was it all day? Like how did it work,

Katie: 13:45

I had appointments, I had back to back appointments. So once you obviously build up your clientele, I would start probably at 9am. And I could see a client for as brief as 30 minutes, or as long as all day. Wow. And it just depended on what the client needed. And that's where every agent came into play. Because, you know, they would put your schedule together like a puzzle every day to accommodate your clients. And so you're running

Amy: 14:06

around on your feet all day. And so when did you eat? Like how did you take care of yourself during that time?

Katie: 14:11

You know, I frequently did not have lunch breaks because I was a hustler. So it was my agency. So you would just kind of grab and go I did a lot of like smoothies on the go or you know quick sandwiches from had a major that you know had like really healthy cut options on the go. Yeah, but I was always really mindful to eat a really healthy big breakfast before I left. And it was kind of nice to be eating light through the day because you obviously don't want to feel heavy right bloated, right? So that also taught me like small meal space throughout the day to keep my energy up, right. But yeah, cuz I would go from 9am to 6pm Back to Back client, go, go go.

Amy: 14:52

And this is all day, every day. All day. I

Katie: 14:55

worked. I worked five days a week. Yeah, I mean

Amy: 14:58

that that sounds awesome. You're exciting in many cases, but also exhausting. It was yes, you're talking to people all day long. And I know you mentioned this too, which I thought was interesting about the fit modeling world as you sort of, were able to consult a bit with the designers in terms of what fit what you liked what fabrics, whereas in your old world, it was sort of like, you're, you're just like,

Katie: 15:20

you're just a face and a body. Yeah. And you definitely have clients that want you to just be a quiet mannequin. But a lot of my clients would take my opinion on not just the technical aspects of it, how it fit, but also the styling, which was fun. You know, I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I did pride myself in being a very technical fit model. So I could work with like, the pattern makers, and, and the fashion techs, the ones that are doing all of the grading and the sizing, and, you know, I worked very closely with them. And they, they took everything I said, and used it. So it was

Amy: 15:57

a power fit. Great. So you had like, say, and what came out, which is so cool.

Katie: 16:01

My voice mattered. Yeah. Whereas in other modeling, they really I mean, your voice is like they that's the last thing they want. Yeah. So it was, I enjoyed it. But like you said, a nonstop Go, go go doing that for about 10 years. I mean, I was burnt out, when by the time I got married and was ready to have a baby, I was ready to retire, which is exactly what I did. I got pregnant and I was like, Alright, I'm out of here. But I do miss it at times. And it taught me a lot. It taught me a lot. I was gonna say what did you learn, I learned how to work with all different types of people. I learned how to the fact that you always have to keep it extremely professional. And one of the biggest lessons that I took away from it was being on time was, was being punctual because I'm getting paid a load of money for 30 minutes of time. Five minutes late. Yeah, a lot of money. And then they don't want to work with me anymore. Right. So it's actually kind of made me become super crazy about punctuality. Yeah, but it's a good thing to have. Yeah. And then obviously, it taught me how to take care of myself and how to be healthy and stay in good shape. And you know, the fact that as a fit model, they want you to be an average size six, I was never pressured to, like starve myself. I was never pressured to, to be thinner than my body was able

Amy: 17:20

to be. So that was just really healthy. Yeah,

Katie: 17:23

yeah. And I mean, I think that's why a lot of these models that are successful that are like these runaway girls that are really tall and slender, that's because that's natural for them. Right? You don't have to kill themselves to be that way. Yeah. So, you know, that's, that's the way to do it.

Amy: 17:39

And then what we're, I mean, you sort of talked about the lows and the bad parts, but I want to hear when you lived with those girls, like, what were they doing and what kind of shenanigans went on like, tell me a funny story or what just can only imagine.

Katie: 17:54

It was wild. I mean, one girl that we left with was literally a gypsy from Turkey. And then I got her way to New York and landed an agency but she had that like gypsy mentality like the nomad lifestyle, and she didn't care about what you thought what you said what you needed, she would steal your things. She

Amy: 18:14

was just really very shady. Like, we had a lot of very shady.

Katie: 18:19

Girls come and go and then we had some of the sweetest, you know, like I a girl Her name was was che she was from the middle of Montana. And she's like, biggest heart and such a sweet girl, get these new girls come in. And you you want to kind of protect them and help them out a little bit. I mean, it was fun. It had its ups and downs. It was a little bit like a party, like an ever revolving door. Yeah, if it never felt very, like settled or safe. But you know, I was 20. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was fun, what a

Amy: 18:47

good time to do it in New York City, where everything's going on. And it's like the best time to do it. Amazing. Well, I just wanted to hear more about that. So thank you for sharing that story. I felt like I got bits and pieces of that over the years. But I've never heard the full thing. And I think it's so interesting. And I'm glad that you did it for the 10 years that you do it. I think to your point, it's probably a really hard career to be doing long term once you have kids and you're married, because it's just the schedule is brutal.

Katie: 19:12

This schedule is brutal. But you know, it's interesting. It's one of the only parts of the modeling industry where some of the most successful fit models are in their 50s. I mean, think about it. All right. So you never know you never know. They're producing clothes for for all ages of women. So they need fit models of all ages.

Amy: 19:29

You could always go back to it if you want. Really Yeah so much. I liked the point in that it taught you how to eat how to mindfully watch her body without getting obsessive making sure your exercise and kind of staying fit on a daily basis. So super cool. And then and then she met Adam and you know,

Katie: 19:51

yeah, and the rest is history

Amy: 19:52

and the rest is history. Now

Katie: 19:53

here we are in Nirvana system.

Amy: 19:54

Here we are in our manifest. Here's the kids the whole deal. Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that. I love the story. It's really inspiring. I just think it's a part of the business that people don't hear a lot about. And I think it's really interesting. And I know there's so many people that do that. I know I was looking at sculpt society Megan group who's like a big fitness person online. She, I believe, started as a fit model too. And now she has a whole fitness app. And this super influential in the space of fitness and well being so and I know she had started I think she said, as a fit model doing athletic athleisure and athletic wear. So it's just, it's really interesting to see where people's careers go after that. So being that your first big gig was a hair salon, and you had that amazing billboard that you became known for. I have a really fun product review that I've been dying to tell you about. So I'm going to demo it for you after this is over. But I'm a little late to the game. But I do have to say that this product that I recently purchased as a definitely a splurge is a game changer. So it is the Dyson complete. And before I open it and show Katie all of the stuff and do the unboxing for her. This is like so silly. But every time I go to a public bathroom, and they had those crazy dryers that were so strong, I'd always be like, Oh my God, I wish I had this for my hair because it's so strong, and it would like dry my hair in five seconds. So PS, the Dyson complete air wrap comes out. And I think it came out a few years ago, maybe in 2018. But I just didn't really noticed that I heard about the hairdryer. But I didn't realize there were other parts of it until recently. So I splurged over the holiday season, got a little bit of a deal. And I found the Dyson air wrap. And I think when it first was released a couple years ago, it was like impossible to get. So this was easy to get. But anyway, so here it is, it comes in this beautiful case,

Katie: 21:51

just say it's kind of gorgeous brown leather box with the loveliest little stitching and the Dyson Yeah, it's like so nice, super

Amy: 22:01

luxurious. And so these are just the directions on the shop that I keep here. And I'll show you that so you can help out work. But when you open it up, it's this really nice case, there's this leather kind of pad that you can put down which you can put all your accessories on when you're blow drying your hair. So essentially what this is, it's a hair drying and curling system. So first, it's this hairdryer and it has all these different attachments. It comes with nine different accessories, starting with the hairdryer. So this is the hairdryer is talking about that when you turn it on, it is so strong my hair, which by the way, which I've mentioned before, in the podcast, I've been like a product obsessed junkie for years, we're all products with specifically hair products, because I think curly hair, this dries my hair in like five minutes. It's crazy. It's so strong. And I think with this system, they also say that the heat that it produces is not damaging for your hair because there's a certain technology involved where it doesn't damage your hair. So the first step is you put this dryer on and you dry your hair and they want you to dry it. So it's like a rough dry, they call it like a damp dry, you do that then you can put on there's two, there's three brush attachments. So there's this one, which is kind of like a paddle brush, but it's just a brush with sort of plastic hardens, I don't know how to describe it. Then there's another attachment that has kind of like the plastic balls on the end. So there are two different looks one, the one that I mentioned before that doesn't have the little plastic balls on the end, it's just a straight brush really makes your hair silky and smooth and straight. So if you were to put that on as the attachment if you do the rough, dry just really like gives that luxurious straight hair. This one is more than this is the one with the ball on the end of it gives you more of that kind of like bouncy salon polished look. And then this one, which is the round brush is really good for me for curly hair, because it gives it like a lot of volume and a lot of kind of wave. So there's three different brushes, you can try and like blow out, what you can also do is there's two different barrels. So this is the larger barrel, which I believe is a 1.6 inch barrel. And this smaller one is a 1.2 inch barrel. And what you do with this is you put this on and see how there's an arrow here, you and I'm going to demo it afterwards. But when your hair slightly damp, you put it on there and there is wind that wraps your hair around this war. And then you just basically put it to your head and it dries so you don't even have to like twist your hair or curl it. It's just like this technology whipsawed around this roller and you just stand there and then your hairs in amazing curl. Oh my God, it is so cool. And there's two different sizes and these are just regular size barrels. I also have a long barrel coming which is good for longer hair. And essentially the directions are here, but what they call it is it's this Coanda air. I think that's how you pronounce the Coanda and it's this technique algae that Dyson made where it literally just whips your hair around this barrel and dries it. And it is so cool because I love all things tech. And of course, I love all things beauty and hair. And so when this combination came together, I was like, this is the coolest thing. And it's expensive, you could probably find it for around 550. But it replaces all of your tools essentially replaces your hairdryer, it replaces your flat iron, it replaces your curling iron. So it's really an all in one. So now what I do is I have this really beautiful stack of accessories. And that's all I use. And I put my curling iron and some of my other styling tools away. And I don't really need them, maybe here and there, I would need them for things. But I pretty much can use this for everything, which is super cool. And I feel better that it's not damaging my hair. Like all the other products, I feel like these hot tools really can damage your hair and your ends suck. I'm obsessed with this Dyson complete air wrap, I am still learning how to use it, there's a little bit of a learning curve. And of course, being the beauty nerd that I am, I've watched every video on how to do it. And all the people, there's all these hats that people use it, you know, they use the straight brush, and they do this and they do that and they get this look and that look. But it took me like a couple times to really figure out how to use the curling iron part because it's so different than what you would normally do when you curl your hair and you like put your arm around and you're and then one side is easier than the other. And it's a whole thing. This is like no work. And it just wraps around. But it's such a strict, it's just so different than anything I've ever used that it took me a little while to figure it out and still learning how to do it. So why are

Katie: 26:32

there there's two more barrels are they just doubles of the same thing double.

Amy: 26:36

So basically, it's two barrel. So see there's two different arrows. So you basically when you look in the mirror, the arrows that go out are for one side and the other, which is confusing, because when I first started doing it, I couldn't figure out which way the arrows went. I was doing it the wrong way. And then I did it the right way. And I was like, Oh, this is how it works. Oh, that's cool. So some people, which I've seen online use both these barrels on the same side, like they'll do a couple strands with this one going out, and then they'll use, they'll do a couple strands with this one going in. So it's like they get kind of a textured look. So it's really fun and creative. Because you can kind of create your own luck with it based on barrel size based on the direction of the barrel. So it's kind of fun, and I'm still learning how to do everything. It's it doesn't come natural. So it takes like a few tries. But once you get through that it's just the coolest thing. I just think it's so fun. It's amazing.

Katie: 27:25

And Dyson is a is a vacuum company. Right?

Amy: 27:28

That's so cool that they Yeah. Technology for those Exactly. So I think you know, they got into this beauty space a couple of years ago, just because they have amazing technology with their vacuums. And the power that those vacuums. I mean, I have a Dyson vacuum for 15 years ago, that still works. I mean, it's an amazing technology. So I think they've been working on this for years. And they came out with a hairdryer and I saw they have this air wrap complete set. They also have I believe a flat iron that's wireless and few other beauty tools, which I haven't tested yet. But all of their beauty tools have a purpose. They're not just doing it because they can they're using their technology and they're making it better for hair. So hair is not getting destroyed and fried in the process of you know, blowing out your hair cuts. So when I first just to say is when I first used this, I didn't even use the curling iron or anything. I just used it to dry my hair. And I looked like I just walked out of a salon getting my hair done. Like I mean, so you'll use it. We'll see ya you looks like a full on blot. So anyway, super fun. Love it. And I'm excited to use it more when we can actually get out of the house and go somewhere. Yeah, I can have my hair done looking like I stepped out of the salon.

Katie: 28:37

I'm for sure gonna use it while I'm here. Yeah, I want to curl my honor with it. Yeah, I wanted to try that. It's really

Amy: 28:42

cool. Thank you for joining this week. Our this this episode, actually, we're going to do part two later this week where we're going to talk to my parents and talk about how they maintain their young spirit and it should be a really fun interview. And we're really looking forward to that and being home together.

Katie: 28:59

Lastly, before we say goodbye, we have to leave you with your mantra of the week. It's a good one aim, give it a go.

Amy: 29:07

When you focus on the good, the good gets better. And like that. Yeah, so sending some positive vibes out there to the universe. And with that, thank you so much for listening to Nirvana sisters.

Katie: 29:19

We'll see you next time. Bye friends. Bye