Episode 98 - What To Do When Your Busy Life Is Sabotaging Your Wellness Success With Fitness Expert Andrea Marcellus - Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 98

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Unknown: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. We are sitting down today with Andrea Marcellus, a Los Angeles based fitness expert and life strategist for over 30 years Andrea is the founder and CEO of and life it's a life maximization brand with a mission to help busy people prioritize their physical and mental well being with minimal effort and sacrifice. We all need that offering unique. So she offers uniquely engaging solutions to both individual consumers and large scale organizations. And life is scaling Andrea's personalized, proven wellness methods via its proven shape up body and mind program. Live and online events. The enlive total fitness lifestyle up and connect workday, wellbeing video library. Andrea is also the author of the top rated book the way in five winning strategies to lose weight, get strong and lift your life. So we have so many questions for Andrea she Aye. Aye. Well, both of us came across Andrea on Tik Tok. And she has the most amazing content and gives such great tips and strategies and those little brief tick tock snippets. So we're so excited to have you here. Welcome to the show, Andrea. Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure to be here. Before we get started. Let's go ahead and kick it with a nirvana of the week. Amy, do you want to do you want to start? Yes. So So I guess there's been a few Nirvana's this week, but I'll say one, okay, so my Nirvana this week was an exciting one. And it's actually something Katie and I can't really talk about yet, but it's coming soon. We just signed a contract on something really exciting that we will unveil soon, but that was definitely one of my Nirvana's this week. So super excited to share all with our Nevada sisters family soon. Yeah, agreed. What about one of my Nirvana's as well, it can't wait till we can spread that news. It's very exciting. The secret secret secret nirvana? Yeah, so that was a highlight. But I had another Nirvana this this morning. We're having a some friends over for dinner tomorrow. And for the first time in I don't know how many years. I cooked for hours without a child at my feet without my husband saying I need this without having to like multitask or be somewhere I made. The time. I think that was the key why it was so enjoyable and relaxing. Because I said, I'm all I'm doing on Friday morning is cooking might be Forgan Yan for Saturday night. That's what I did. It was very relaxing. And I enjoyed it. That's amazing. So that was mine. What about you, Andrea? Oh, nice. I love that. I have a couple one, my son got 100 on this math test that he had taken twice and yay. Even though we do it, and it's like, you know, when you're a parent, and you're trying to help your kid, you know, achieve something that's hard for them. It's it was pretty cool. So that was one. And the other is I and we are having friends over tonight to play dominoes. I love playing games. I love fun. And I can't I can't tell you when the last time we've had friends, like without realizing it. It's just been a very busy time. And then, you know, sometimes you just don't make plans. So we made some plans and I've been excited about it all week. Yeah, that's so fun games like game night. That's great. I haven't done that in years. And it really is a such a great time. So yeah, that's, that's exciting. It'd be a fun Friday night. It sure will. Alright, well, let's kick it off. It's funny that you say that just really quickly because I have been hearing about this lately. But my son, I have two boys, Andrea 13 and 16. And my 13 year old is going to a party tonight. And it's like a murder mystery whodunit party, and they all get dressed up and like it's this little thing and a friend of mine at Worlds same thing. She did something like that a few weeks ago, and I was like, I love these fun interactive parties. Yeah. That's very Yeah, it's a great thing. Well, you know, it gets you out of your head. That's the whole thing like these and we'll talk a lot about stress relief today. But like that's, that's part of it. Like just even knowing oh my gosh, all I need to focus on right now is Mexican train. That's amazing. You know if you can fully focus, the good. That's really fun if you're like alright, well let's get into it because we have a lot to ask you. And first thing that that we are trying Amiens You're trying to understand. So you're a fitness expert. But it's not just fitness as an exercise and working out and going to the gym, you encompass the whole thing, the the mind, the body, the nutrition, the health, all of that, how did that start? And just tell us a little bit about about that. Yeah, because fitness is actually more about your mind than your body. That is what I've come to understand. That's the, you know, the spoiler alert moment of this whole thing I started in exercise. And you know, that's, I would say, that's truly my gift. People love working out with me. And that's what people would come for. Because I don't know, if you came and worked out with me today, I would come up with stuff I have never done before watching you move, and we would just make up things, and I'd see what your body is good at. And I'd also see where there are areas of challenge, I can just see it and I can make things up really fast. And on the fly. And that's like my gift. So that's what I love. But what I came to understand, starting out just as a trainer, essentially in a class instructor was wow, this is only a very small part of the equation. And really, it's our relationship with food. And, you know, I really the interesting thing is I spent the first 16 years of it's going to be 31 year career in in July 1 16 years doing everything you and everybody else thinks they need to do to you know, be fit. And I was an actress, I wasn't even supposed to be doing this. I went to NYU for acting, I was supposed to be a star. So this was just an artist. Thanks so much. It was just so different than what I thought. But it's awesome. You know, and it's, it's interesting. I, I was trying so hard to be super fit and back. Now this is 30 years ago. So that was like the Kate Moss era, you weren't even allowed to be like a normal human. And the harder and harder. I tried to be lean, the more weight I gained. And part of it was stress. And part of it was a really bad training strategy, which was overtraining and workout lifestyle, I call it and not really developing a really good relationship with food. I mean, it was terrible. And at a certain point, I didn't even gain 25 pounds. It was like muscle, I didn't need a layer of flab that would never go trying to maintain that workout lifestyle. A lot of people get into this rut and it was somewhere in my early 30s It was about 33 I had a celebrity client coming in. And I remember staring at the wall and going you know, I was putting together the calories in calories out equation thinking what we're going to do with this guy and I remember going this doesn't work. Like honest to goodness, this doesn't work. It's it. I mean, I'm to where I'm at, which is not even to my personal goal white knuckling it. All my clients are white knuckling it, like and it's it's just there's got to be a better way. And so what I did was start guinea pigging myself with a kinder gentler approach to the entire thing and developing a really great friendship with food. Through that very much a less is more process. And then I started introducing it to my clients who would be game for going a different route. I mean, nobody was talking about this short workouts, workouts interspersed between the day and eating all the foods, not eliminating anything unless you have a medical reason, and really working on bringing joy into your life. And the people that would do that they shrunk pretty quickly too. And before I knew it, I was starting to write a book and I was starting to codify it into a methodology and then that's become what what I do now, that's really amazing because I can see how it's all stress related. Like you were saying you're overtraining and huge stress on the body. You're overly focused on calories, that's a stress on you mentally and emotionally. You're you know, you're like people starve themselves. You're thinking about food and you have that mental stress. Right? So I get why I use the you know, it's stress, it's directly related to stress. What would you say because I've seen some of your your tips and and also some of the some of the like the little things that you talk about like food soothing and things like that. Let's talk let's talk about that. Food soothing. Yeah. So I mean and this is the really interesting thing and why I talked about my program is called the shape of body and mind program and it really I would almost call it mind and body because it comes it starts with your brain. So when we think about food, soothing, and I you know, and I just want to say right from the get go. The only reason I know anything about all of this is because I personally We know it, I've done everything. I mean, I done all this like and I, How did I manage to get myself to stop? It wasn't from some, you know, diet plan or meal plan or willpower certainly wasn't. It was behavioral changes. And you have to understand like, Well, where are those behaviors coming from? So in terms of food soothing, you have your vagus nerve, and it you know, runs from your brain, it connects. Basically, think of it this way, in layman's terms, there's your jaw, your lungs, your gut, so you have a gut feeling about something that's for real. When your body you're like, out of nowhere, you are kind of stressed out and you just go, you take a big deep breath. That's your vagus nerve, like showing up for you trying to get you to drop a notch trying to help your central nervous system, you know, take you down a notch because you're you're too keyed up and your jaw. Think about this when we were babies, you know, what did we have we had a pacifier there, that nerve in your jaw, it will help to soothe you. So now as adults, what do we do? We sit in front of Netflix, and we chew and chew and chew. So it's like, well, if these are our soothing mechanisms, like well, how can we use them to our advantage? Or how can we, you know, stay away from this mechanism of using our jaw to chew and use something else, because we're not going to stop the stressors from coming into our life, we have to get better at how we respond to them. So what I do is, I help people develop one in the moment stress management strategies where we take anxious energy, worried energy triggered energy, anger, and we shift that it's just energy energy is energy, right? So you can take that energy. And if you have some tools and some practice, you can quickly shift it into positive energy and energy that goes towards a positive purpose in your life, it's pretty cool. So you can always think of something that's triggering you is actually an opportunity to go get something done. And then we work on teaching your brain not to over respond to stress so much in the first place. And then that keeps you at a hormonal advantage. So not only is it easier to lose weight, if you need to do that, but then to maintain it very, very important. So it's, this is where calories in calories out fails, that that whole or macro count take or that whole approach, they fail because they don't take into account your humanity. The fact is, everything is running from your brain, and your brain is operating off of feelings. And you know, feelings aren't a math equation, you're not a math equation. And you know, those approaches do not take into account, you know, even more basic things like hydration, sleep, if you're in laws or in town, if your dog if you just want a prize, you know, like if you're at your wedding, and even if celebrations you see what I mean. So you've got to take your whole humanity into account and how that's impacting on your brain. And then how the brain is responding hormonally to that. I love that whole philosophy. Can you give us an example of like you were saying, if you're stressed strategies to you know, turn that around, like, give us examples of what that looks like, Oh, I'd love to, here's one of my best that I give people quickly all the time that anybody could do. So your brain, your attention and your brain, you it operates like a flashlight, right? So you have different brain centers, and you can only have certain things on or else the flashlight goes in the other direction. So think of it that way. When you're triggered, you have this amygdala in your brain, it is only triggered by one of two things threat or scarcity. So in our modern times fear city is I'm not going to have enough time energy or funds. And threat is I'm going to look stupid, or I'm unlovable it every you know, I'm going to I'm whittling this down to just I'm gonna look bad, right you get it's an ego thing. So when something like that happens, that amygdala starts pumping out adrenaline and cortisol, the cortisol, we all know that's going to create a problem with insulin that we all that's been talked about a lot everybody listening to this gets the concept of why that's not awesome. But the adrenaline becomes the issue the adrenaline, when you don't have a lion to run from our burning building, you know, and you have all this adrenaline and makes you snappy, it makes you moody and makes you make quick decisions that will soothe you in the short term immediately, but they often go against your long term goals. So the key is to short circuit, this amygdala, that when when you're triggered, and it's starting to send out what are designed to be protective hormones. This is designed to protect you to help you survive, you know, but you can teach your brain I got it, I got it. One of the simplest ways is to combine a balanced move with breath in some sort of coordination. So I literally just have people stand on one foot and just lift your heel towards your tush and then put it back down and And then just lifted up and put it back down and your hands are in front of your desk, your abdominals are deep, your shoulder blades are sliding down your back, you have the best posture, you can and you're just lifting your leg up and down, lift the heel up and down. And then we add the breath into it, and you'll take it, two counts up, and four counts down, two counts up, four counts down. That's all we're doing. So what's happening here, we're activating the hippocampus, the cerebellum and the prefrontal cortex. When those things are active, and the flashlight is in that direction, guess what has no light on it whatsoever, the amygdala, the brain cannot multitask. So in that little moment, what it takes your brain to accomplish, just lifting your heel towards your tush and putting it back on the floor with a coordinated breath means you can't be worrying, the body cannot be shooting out adrenaline and cortisol, it's busy doing something else. And in those short moments, we give ourselves enough that we can actually break away from that feeling. Now we're down a notch, you can restart your day, you know, from a different place. And over time, and with practice, we train our brain not to overstate but rover respond to stress so much in the first place. So that is one of the simplest ways that's fascinating. Yeah, I'm gonna be trying that later. For sure. Yeah, and then you said something before, which caught my attention, which was, because we're all guilty of this, but I definitely am of like, this food soothing, and like, you know, watching a show, or even like, you know, just that the habit of you know, when we used to which no one goes to movies anymore, but go to the movies and get popcorn, you know, it's just like that habit? What is a good strategy to get your mind off of like, those cravings? Are those like, oh, I need to have something sweeter? Oh, I need it. Or I need to eat while I'm watching TV. And you're not even hungry. But it just makes you feel better for some reason. Like, do you have any good tips there? Sure do. That's the whole method I teach. Because you can't, you can't, you can't get your mind not to do something. Things don't exist in the negative they only exist in the positive. So what do you do? What you do is you teach yourself and this is what I do with people individually, it's very individual. But what is the schedule of eating that is best for your body in the energy appropriate portions, these portions of the key? Figuring out what kind of amount of beneficial fats and proteins you need throughout the day and where I'm headed with this. And especially because it's usually night food, soothing, you know, we all everything like air quotes, good during the day, and then I lose it. Or on the weekends, what you have to do is make it so it is not a matter of willpower, that literally your stomach is full, that literally you can't eat another bite. And it's hard to trust because what people do is they go, Well, I'm going to eat a lot tonight. So I don't eat all day. Well, this is actually the opposite strategy of what you need to be doing. We need to be eating regularly throughout the day. High quality foods you need to give yourself social foods at night is what I call them, they might be less beneficial, but they feed our soul. And the afternoon snack is the absolute key if your afternoon snack includes a protein and or a beneficial fat. And it's just it can be very small, but it's something in that afternoon, so you do not go into dinner hungry, then the dinner won't open the floodgates for you and you will have been satisfied all day. And if you do this day after day, it only takes about three days or so you will find that at night when you sit in front of TV or something. You're actually like, wow, I'm good. Like you can have a little something, you have to be a little bit mindful for half a second. But what what actually happens is, is if you do this, you know day after day, and then a week or two goes by it actually becomes physically uncomfortable to just graze grazing is the enemy. And but you can't just go I'm not going to graze that's white knuckling it again, we have to practices in place where that is not your preference anymore. And the best way I know is making it so that the way you live is that if my stomach is too full, if I graze I become overfall it is actually physically uncomfortable. And I stop you you were in my head this past week with your afternoon snack being a protein and a good fat and I've been doing it all week and I did I do notice a difference. And the other thing also at what was I didn't see that one. Oh the on tick tock. Yeah, what was the protein that I was going to ask? Like, what are good, like, examples of what are your favorites? Yes, yeah. What are the good fats that you're gonna have with some protein? Oh my gosh, there's so many right. But here's here's a easy way to do it. I think what did you have for dinner last night? Generally people have like some I don't know there's soy protein and some vegetables. Just eat a little of that. If you don't have it if it's too hard to put something together but like, you know, a quarter of an avocado was something avocado is one of the best foods in the whole world. I have a recipe on my and Life app called chia seed pudding. This is a life changer for most people. Like, I can't wait to go to Starbucks and tell them you need to sell this. Yeah, sorry, I literally just came up with this one day, like, you know, and like, it's the one everybody loves, because you can make so many variations of it. But you're getting your omega three fatty acids. And you're, you know, it's just absolutely delicious, just a few bites of that. But truly, it could be anything, often, I will just throw an egg in a pan with some olive oil and some spinach and the eggs on one side, that spinach on the other side, it takes what 94 seconds to make that. And that's my afternoon snack, you got to think real food. And if it's coming in a package walk away, there is something fresh in your refrigerator that is going to take you less like no time. And again, you know, if real food is the key, real food is the path, not only to, you know, if you have to lose weight, you know, and to be well and to, you know, to feel lean and strong. But it's the path to longevity, we're getting nutrition, we're relying on these bars, or a protein powder or something. And I mean, I'm 50. So you know, collagen powder might, you know, into your life at a certain point when your protein meats go higher. But this is not what we want to rely on. You want to like every opportunity you can to get something from nature in your body that's going to nutritionally level you up, that's what you want to do. Yeah, that's a really good reminder. Because I definitely fall in the camp sometimes, like get in the phase of like, I need protein, I'll have a bar that has 20 grams of protein, or I'll make a shake with protein powder just because I feel like I need protein. But it's yes, it's much better to eat real food. It's just I think, like us, you know, and I love your content too, because it's for busy. Women like all of us and like just having these small ideas of what you could make like the egg and spinach or avocado and something else just to have those like ideas in your head almost makes like, it's just like the thinking about what you're going to eat is worse than the actually like doing it. It's just sometimes you're like, wait, what should I have for my snack 100%. So that's like, literally in my program, what I no brainer for people is okay, let's come up with a go to foods list for you of things. And you know, and then like on munchie days, one of the best things to do is like if you like coconut, get the unsweetened coconut flakes, and put them in a small ramekin in the front. And I put some blueberries there and I put some of that and now I'm not a grazer, I'm not a fan of grazing. But sometimes you open the fridge and some you grab something and we don't want to be doing this. But if you those things take long that takes a long time to chew, you put them together. Wow, we just got like a ton of antioxidants, anti inflammatories, beneficial fats, and we're actually satisfied for a while walk away. You know, like, that's, it's just trying to strategize. So that's what you have to do for yourself. Like that's one that works for me. But the important thing is not what Andrew Marcellus eats, the important thing is for you to figure out, what do I like. And then you'll stick with it. This is a really interesting thing. If I can just make one big long run on sentence paragraph. There's a great study in my book The Way in about, about how your brain has to like your food. Another reason diets do not work. There's this great study called the milkshake study. And this woman at I think it was Johns Hopkins, she tested these folks they came in and basically they tested the ghrelin in their stomach. Ghrelin is the hormone in your stomach that tells you I'm hungry, go find food. And when you start to eat, then leptin comes out in your brain. And leptin is the hormone your portion controlling hormone. That's the one that's like, hey, yeah, that's enough. Okay, walk away. So we want a really good relationship between these two hormones. We want a very, very loud conversation happening where they can hear each other really well. And this is one of the reasons not for grazing because that messes all that up. But in this study was incredible. She brought people in, she tested the grill and level she gave them a shake, one chocolate shake, that was about 600 calories, it said on the label and it was called decadence or something and she tested the ghrelin level in their stomach. And then they she tested it again after they after they had some and then two weeks later, they came back. And she did the same thing, trust the grill in their stomach, gave them a shake. And this one was called like since ABA or something like that. I'm saying it wrong, but it was like a diet meal replacement chocolate shake, you know, and it was like, I don't know 150 200 calories. So they think they're, they're having a diet shake and teach test the grill and level in their stomach. I'm gonna get this number a little bit wrong, but the point where we made it was either the Gremlin dropped either three times more or six times more with That decadent chocolate shake, then the shake, that was the diet shake, right? And when ghrelin drops, that means leptin shooting out telling you to stop eating. It's really important. So now here's the thing. They were the same exact shake. So what wow, people thought of the show, oh, that's a tournament when they were satisfied. And this is why I insist people like their food. And if you're dieting, it's not going to work. If you're doing what you should be doing, instead of what's bringing you joy, then it's just not going to work. And that's why it's crucial that everything like people ask me, Do you have a meal plan? No, I have to meet you. Or, you know, my app tries to help you figure it out for yourself. But you know, it's like, No, we got to find out what works for you. It's so true. So I saw this on your content as well, earlier in the week. And you're in my head. This was, I want to say Tuesday night, we had a snow day. So our kids were at home. And just it was a long day, we ordered pizza, never ordered pizza, but we ordered pizza. Kids love it. I am lactose intolerant, so I don't really eat it. And if I do eat it, I enjoy it. And I do it maybe like once a year. And you were in my head. And I thought, You know what, just have a slice of pizza with your salad, your salad with the grilled chicken. That's what I would normally eat. And I had a slice of pizza. And I was so satisfied. And I was so happy. And I was cool. Like that was that that was all I needed afterwards, I was good. Normally, if I had, you know, just a grilled chicken salad, I might want to go an hour later. And like I'm digging in the cabinets for something to satisfy that itch. I guess that's exactly what happens. And see, and we all experienced that you're talking about something we've all experienced. And so, you know, when I was coming up with this methodology, I was like, I'm just gonna give it what would happen. If I just had what I know it sounds so like, I mean, that's the holy grail to be able to do that. And I think I mean, I definitely have problems with grazing, I'm more of a grazer than like a meat eater. So like, I've been trying not to do that. But it's really difficult. Like, yeah, and that's the thing, not that I'm against therapy or people thinking about their stuff. But I find practices, best practices that walk us into better behaviors, and that just solve the problem, or kind of better way to go than wasting too much time delving into your why? How about, fix it, you know, and I think a lot of us get bogged down in the intellectual trying to understand ourselves. And I know personally, for me, just diving into solutions. And actually, you know, when you talk about stress management, you talk about chronic stress, and you talk about things like that. And I mean, I've tried all sorts of solutions in my life, but I find things that combine breath and movement, and this is actually studied to be far more effective than say, Talk therapy. at helping you overcome these moments, and I'm interested in people, you know, I'm interested in less cortisol, I'm interested in hormonal balance for what people come to me for, but you can kind of apply this to anything where, you know, you're having, you know, I, in my program, I even go into dispute resolution with your partner, your roommates, like things like that, you know, like you have to strategize this stuff. And it's like, well, how do you get to the solution faster? How do we get to faster solutions, and just being solution oriented in general, and mostly, you know, all of this is about embracing who we are rather than, like always keeping this carrot stick out there and who we want to be like, how does your life actually operate? Let's like, let's, you know, talk about food and exercise in terms of how your life actually operates. And I bet we'll get a better solution not be wishing that you were like somebody else, you know, and I think I think that's really important to always come back to, you know, who are you and maybe stop overthinking it. Maybe just try the solution on first Yeah, and then go back and and then go back and look at your stuff. I'm not saying don't look at your stuff, but I'm saying why not look at your stuff from a place where you feel better and more confident to begin with. I love that. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 97 - Lasers, Skin Barrier, Skincare HOLY GRAILS and more - Answering Your Skincare Questions With Natasha B, Beauty Junky Monkey - PART 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast episode 97.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

Natasha Brinkmann: You. Um.

Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show. Nirvana Sisters Family. So we are here. It is part two with Natasha B beauty junkie monkey. We she promised she'd be back. She's here. If you haven't listened to episode 96, go run and listen to that one. But Natasha B is a trained esthetician skincare expert and educator. You may know her as Beauty Junkie Monkey on TikTok, where she now has over 400,000 followers and lots of helpful skincare advice. She's just growing by the second because I think the last time we talked to you, you at 350, so you are just crushing it. We love all of her advice. The last session was amazing. We talked so much about different products and routines, and we're just going to continue that conversation and get into it. So thank you so much for being back on the show. Natasha, we love having you on.

Natasha Brinkmann: Oh, thank you for having me. This was way too much fun the last time. I'm like, we got to go to number two.

Amy Sherman: Absolutely. I know we still have product questions and different things like that, but we did want to make sure we touch on some of these skin treatments that we're seeing out there because I think there's so many, from micro needling to morpheus aid to the lasers to the this to the that. There's so many things. And we'd love to hear from you what your experience has been, if you recommend anything, who they're best for, all the different things that we're seeing around there.

Natasha Brinkmann: Absolutely. I have some personal experience. I will say out of the gate, I am not a licensed medical esthetician, so I don't do the lasers. I don't do the morpheus eight. Again, I still have a lot of friends in the industry, so I know that. And then, of course, with my clientele who had it done, I get a lot of feedback so I can talk about it based on that information. So I'm happy to provide that for myself. I have done a little bit of laser. I've got a little bit of filler in my lips. That's the only thing I'm really maintaining right now is just a little bit in the lips because I have those little French lips. As I age, they slowly dissipate. So I just put in just a half a syringe just to kind of back up. And I have done PoDoX in the past, Botox in the past, but I stopped it over last year because I was testing out other brands and one of my commentators said, well, how do you know how it really, really works? And I was basing it on how well it held my Botox for longer periods of time. That's how I was basing mine. And I thought, that's a very fair question. So begrudgingly, because I really love the results. I stopped using it. And I have to say, over the past, I'd say eight months, maybe. I think it's about eight months now. I haven't touched it since. And I'm just shocked because 48 years old, and I'm looking at myself going, well, I can live with that. I'm not perfectly wrinkle free, or you can see when face to face. But I don't mind the aging process. I just want to age well. And I think having a good skincare routine and then using medical aesthetics is a great thing to do. But it's really, really important to do it authentically and not to go overboard, because that's when the regret sets in, and that's when people start messing about with their face and they start going, what have I done? One of my personal pet peeves is the lip flip that they do with Botox. I've had a lot of friends get it done. And the problem is that you can't purse your lips anymore. And so eating, drinking, people can't eat properly because the food comes out of their mouth and stuff like that. And I'm like, I understand that the aesthetic part and what they're trying to do, but when you start changing how you look, because it's not natural to have that flip, right? Like most of us, either you have it or you don't. That's when you start changing, really, in my opinion, who you are. A little filler in a place that's already full, no problem. A little bit of filler here and there just to kind of touch it up. A lot of people are surprised I have lip filler. And I'm like, yeah, I only use half a syringe. I don't use a full syringe. I have, in the past, didn't like it. It was a little too much. And not that a lot of people would notice it, but I think for me, it was just like I like the subtlety of it. And that's one thing I've noticed for sure is, like, Botox is fantastic if you have those deep 11th between your eyes. Yeah, do it. Absolutely. Because product can only go so far. But yeah, I just wanted to say that right out of the gate, because I know we've seen some celebrities out there, and I'm just like, oh, no, sweetie, no.

Amy Sherman: I know. When you look like you can't even recognize them, it's so scary.

Katie Chandler: Also, I feel like I think that there can be a slow climb to this. Oh, my gosh, I've gone overboard. And I know one time I did, I think a little bit too much Botox. And I just remember looking at myself, thinking, like, I look a little weird. And it took a while for it to click that. Oh, I probably have a little bit too much Botox. Right now. Next time I should scale back a little bit. Like I would see myself in a phone. I'm like, Why are my eyebrows up to my hairline? What is going on with that crazy smile? So I think it's a good reminder when you are doing bone talks, if you get that feeling that might mean to pump the brakes. And also a really easy trick for that lip flip that is totally natural and easy to do is to just put some highlighter on your top lip line as well. It doesn't really give you the lip flip, but it gives an illusion of it. So don't go putting the Botox in there for that.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah, well, when it starts function, like you can't function and you can't chew it's like, nah, I'm horrible. I'm self conscious of that is not working. I want us to dribble it out of my mouth. I'm like, yeah, no, that's not thank you. Do I do that? No, I don't want to do the lip flip. I was just going to say right now, the little chin dimple seems to be a big deal. I'm like, really? This is a big deal? Careful with who you go to, because their job is to make money, and the more you spend, the more they make. And I mean, a good medical aesthetician will have that. Nice, okay, let's not overdo it or kind of talk you down and go, you know what? You look fabulous because you don't want to take away who you are. I have a little French bump here on my nose, and the first thing my husband said when we met is, like, you can never touch your face. You can never touch your nose. And I'm so grateful he said that, because you're right. That's who I am. It's part of me. It's part of what makes me me. And is it the perfect nose? No, but it makes the rest of my face, in my opinion, look perfect because it's me, right? And I want to look in the mirror and look at myself and go, oh, hey, that's still me with some of the procedures. I love laser treatments. They're incredible. And I think they're going to be the new microneedling coming out as they progress and they get better and better and better. Myself, I love to do the IPL laser or photofacial is what it's called, because it does so much, so it zaps out your hyperpigmentation. So if you have some really bad sunspots or freckles or really bad sun damage, it works so well, it just zaps it right out, and it naturally exfoliates out of your skin. It also helps to really stimulate collagen and elastin. So if you find that you're getting some of the deeper lines around the eyes, but you want to kind of treat that, then it's a nice way to slowly get that in there. And then when you pair that with your good products, you're going to have beautiful results. And I love how it tightens down the pores. So it really helps with texture, it helps with scarring. A couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with basal cell carcinoma on the edge of my nose. And that sucked because what people don't realize about skin cancer, the basal cell is it goes down like a trunk, but then it spreads like a tree root. So it's not that that basal cell will kill you, it's going to disfigure you because they have to dig out all around it. And I had a huge hole in my nose, which I kept covered meticulously for six weeks. And I think it's because I kept it covered, I kept it moist. I'm really good at wound care. It really started to progress very well. Even my dermatologist was like, wow, that's healing. And then I did get some laser because I did get a little bit of puckering around the edges, and you could see it. Like if I turned my head a certain way, you'd really see it. So what I ended up doing was I did five laser treatments, and now you can barely see it.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, it looks amazing. I've had actually a lot of basal cells, so on my face, it's genetic, and I've had a ton. So I'm crazy about the sun and stuff, too. But yeah, you can't even tell now when you say you got a laser for that. This is where I get confused, because I've heard about the IPO. I've never done it, but what kind of lasers, from what you know, what you've seen, what kind of lasers do you use? For what? Because you were saying that I imagine there's a laser that's better for healing a wound than explaining your face or whatever.

Natasha Brinkmann: Oh, yeah. No, again, not a laser technician, but what I know from my girl is that what it does is it goes in and it helps to stimulate the collagen underneath it. So it helps to really plump that back up. Then you can do more invasive like fractal. Fractal is a deeper laser. So you do need downtime for that. Because again, working with clients, I have clients that have had facelifts, half facelifts, the morpheus laser treatments. The biggest thing I can tell you from their experience is that you really have to be mindful of your recovery. So if you do not have two weeks where you can really baby your face, do not do it, because then you risk scarring, then you risk complications, then you risk swelling. You're going to have those anyways because that's all part and parcel of doing these more invasive IPL. You don't get that as much. It's not as invasive. But the fractal, you're going to be losing a few layers or when you do any type of acid treatments. My mother in law had that done, and oh my gosh, her face looked like hamburger meat. It was awful. It was awful.

Amy Sherman: Oh my God. Like so red, right?

Natasha Brinkmann: Oh, red. Raw. It started to look like yeah, look like hamburger meat. As it was, the top layers were coming off and she really had to be diligent about her care. I mean, her skin looked great afterwards, but again, it was very limited. She thought it get rid of all her wrinkles. No, it didn't. Right. It got rid of a lot of them, but the deep ones were still very there. So she was upset that she went through all of that and didn't get the results that she was looking for. Right. So that's the thing with these procedures, is we got to A, manage your expectations, and B, listen. Exactly. If they tell you avoid the sun for two weeks, we're talking avoidance. We're not talking, oh, I'll just pop in the car and run to the store. The radiation does penetrate through the window. Your skin is damaged. Putting radiation on damaged skin, bad idea. That's where scoring and pigmentation come into play. So that's one of the best things I can say about any treatment. Follow their advice, listen to them, be honest about what you have done, what you haven't had done. If you've done any type of retinol, they need to know this prior to you going in, because of course, that will affect how the skin responds with everything. Morpheus eight. I've heard mixed results with that. I've heard a lot of people have amazing and that's that deep. It's like a machine where they basically puncture. It's like micro needling, but it has a little bit of a current in there and it works really well at stimulate collagen. It's very good. Problem with that is A, you have to make sure that you have the proper technician that actually knows what they're doing. Because I had another client, she had it done, and she has these hundreds of little bumps all along her entire face and lower jawline.

Amy Sherman: Oh, my God.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah. So she went back to her technician, said, WTF what's going on? And her technician's words were, oops, I think I went too deep.

Amy Sherman: My God.

Katie Chandler: So is it permanent right now?

Natasha Brinkmann: It's there. We'll see if it stays there. I don't know if there's a laser that can help break up the scar tissue. I don't know. But that, to me, would be a deal breaker. And that's why when it comes to any type of micro needling, I'm really hesitant. I'm okay with a surface microneedling for just basic stuff, but even then, I'm like the benefits of a laser treatment outweigh the pain and discomfort, in my humble opinion, of doing like micro needling, which is pretty invasive. Right. So I guess it just all depends on what you're going for. But I'm really loving the lasers because they do work so very well.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, I've done. Micro needling. I haven't done lasers. I've done micro needling a bunch of times more surface, not like the morpheus eight where that scares me. But I have a very good person, and I love it, and I think it takes, like, years off of my skin or off of my face, but yes, have to go to someone who knows what they're doing. Like, I've been going to the same person when I first did it. I went a bunch of times, and now I'll do it like, once or twice a year to freshen me up. But yes, it's your point. If you go to the wrong person, forget it, you're done.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah, I agree. And that's the hardest part.

Katie Chandler: How often do you suggest lasers? How many times a year should someone, if they want to be on that track and doing lasers frequently? Is it like a twice a year thing? I have no idea.

Natasha Brinkmann: I guess it all depends. I know some technicians suggest doing it all throughout the year. Personally speaking, I like to do it either at the beginning of the year or the end of the year, of the summer months, simply because the damage from the sun is going to happen, whether you protect it as much as you can or not. So for me, it's like, well, I want to make sure that I prevent any for. I'm trying to do the preventative thing. I don't want to get skin cancer again. That was not fun. And I definitely want to prevent having all of that damage and that pigmentation. So for me, generally, I like to do it at the end of the season. So in the fall, because the sun's not as high, it's not as intense, it just seems like I save my money to say that I save my money, right, because it's not cheap. I do my entire face into my neck and my chest, and if she's feeling generous, she'll do the back of my hands. But every area, they charge you, so they're charging you everything. You want a little extra, you want a toe done, they're going to charge you $100.

Amy Sherman: Does it hurt?

Natasha Brinkmann: No. So what it feels like is it feels like a little snap. So if it does hit that pigmentation, you're going to feel that like a rubber band snap. But it's more shocking than anything. It's more of like, okay. And then once you kind of get used to it, then you're okay. If you have a lot of damage or a lot of pigment yeah. Just be aware. It's going to feel awful at first, but again, after a week to ten days, it looks so good, and there is no downtime. You're a little pink for a while. Your pigmentation gets a little bit darker as it comes out, so it looks worse, but then it comes out and the skin underneath looks lovely. The thing that I've noticed from my melasma clientele is not really a great idea. It just does not seem to it helps to pull some of it out, but Melasma has that basically is like a hormonal trigger. So once that switch has been flipped open and the pigmentation has been charged, it doesn't go away. And so it will admin flow. It'll get lighter, it'll get darker, but it'll never go away. So IPL, unfortunately, hit and miss results. A lot of my clients say they take it, they do it for Melasma, but then it comes back. But it is good.

Katie Chandler: It's also good for sunspots and everything, right?

Natasha Brinkmann: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So you kind of have to look at the big picture and like I said, what the expectations are on that. I'm really into lasers and PRP. I don't know if you guys have heard of that one yet.

Amy Sherman: I've done it. Yeah, with my microneedling.

Natasha Brinkmann: Oh, you have? Okay. So I have not tried it yet, but I had PRP, so plasma rich platelets. So that's where they take the blood out of your arm for those who don't know, and then they spin it into the device, and then all the rich plasma goes to the top, and they take that and they inject that into your wherever. Right. And I had that done on my knee after I tore my ACL and my meniscus last year. I was a little overzealous in my Zumba class.

Amy Sherman: And it helped, right?

Katie Chandler: I didn't know it did that. That's amazing.

Natasha Brinkmann: It is. It was so cool. Like, I had it done over a month ago, and now I can wear my heels. Like, this is a year long injury, so I can wear my heels again, which I'm obsessed with. I can move, I can dance again, I can twist again. I'm absolutely floored. It worked exceptionally well for me. It was worth the $500. Totally worth it. Yeah.

Amy Sherman: My friend did it for her shoulder, I think.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah. And I've heard nothing but good things, but then all of a sudden, they say, well, we can help if you have the deep crevice underneath the eyes, if you're having issues with the marionette lines, I'm like, oh, we can do that too. I know you can do it in the hair to help prevent hair loss. There's so much yeah, I'm going to be doing a little bit more looking into yes.

Amy Sherman: There's so many good things now. I mean, there's so much innovation going on. It's really cool.

Natasha Brinkmann: I was going to say one client did it, and she says I looked sensational. She loved it. And I'm like, well, that sold me.

Katie Chandler: That's all you need to hear.

Natasha Brinkmann: That's all I need. Sold.

Katie Chandler: I'm curious about what your thoughts are on these simple at home tools like our guacAs and our Jade Rollers and also the new face. Is it microelectric?

Natasha Brinkmann: Microcurrent devices.

Katie Chandler: Microcurrent, yes. What are your thoughts on those?

Natasha Brinkmann: So I'll tell you right out of the gate, the microcurrent devices are not strong enough for them to actually invoke a lot of change. You might see maybe 5%, maybe if you're lucky. Most people do not. And the thing with the at home devices is the hardest thing is consistency. That to me, I've had a lot of devices in my past, but I'll tell you, those microcurrent ones are a complete waste of time. Complete. They're just not strong enough. That's why when you go in clinic and they use it in clinic, you see results because it is strong enough. It's got somebody who's licensed. They know what they're doing. There's education behind that. So then that way that machine can be used properly. What they sell is just not strong enough. So you're never going to get the results. Jade rollers massaging tools. All they do is a nice Lymphatic draining. They do not tighten your skin. They do not firm up your skin. They do feel amazing. Like I'm just getting over a cold. And I always use mine over top of my sinus areas because I'm just like, this is bad. But it really does help kind of move everything out a little bit. Or if you're just one of those people, it just makes you feel like it's your time and you like the feel of it on your face while you're putting product in. No problem. Rule of thumb, make sure that your equipment is clean before you use it and clean after you use it. Right. Because you want to make sure that you're not spreading bacteria over your face. And most people don't clean their tools, and then they wonder why they break out the LEED. I am testing two versions out right now. So, like a body one and one for the face. It's still early, but I will say right out of the gate, if you have any type of issues with acne, this worked really, really well. I had three three pimples on the side that popped up, and I was kind of surprised because that doesn't happen for me. I usually don't break out like that. And they weren't going away, and it had been three weeks, and I'm like, I'm pulling out all my big guns. Like, I'm pulling out the salicylic acid. I'm doing all the little extra tricks I know. And it wasn't really like a couple of them would heal, and then they'd reinfect. And I'm like, okay, well, this is ridiculous. So when I got this Led mask to test, I put it on and within two days, they were gone.

Katie Chandler: That's interesting. Yeah, I bought both of those. I have the Led and the new face. And I've been using the new face religiously. The new face, I like it personally, but what I really think it is for me is it's more related to inflammation and lymphatic drainage. I have autoimmune disease, so I'm always inflamed. So I think it's kind of maybe doing a bit of the same action that the rollers or the gouache, like.

Natasha Brinkmann: Deepuffing removing the fluid, right? Absolutely.

Katie Chandler: At the same time, I have to do it pretty much every single day to still see what I'm seeing when I'm doing it. And last week I took a week off, and I was like, all right, I'm starting to look a little more puffy and droopy and blah. So I'm doing it again. But the Led, I have one, and I'm not using it, and I should because I have Acne. It's driving me nuts. So it's good to know that you feel like that's, really. When you were doing it for the Acne, did you do what light did you do? Does yours have the yeah, it's just.

Natasha Brinkmann: Like the red light therapy mask. Yeah, I posted it on. It looks ridiculous. I feel like Silence of the Lounge when I wear it. It covers your entire face, but it's really nice. It's convenient. You can still work with it on. It's got a timer on it. So, so far, my review so far is really good. It does help to tighten it down my pores even more, so I'm really enjoying that. I always want to make sure that the information I'm giving my clients and my audience is always really good, viable information so they can make an informed decision. I think it definitely has value, for sure. For certain skin types, the hardest thing for me is consistency. It's the hardest thing because it has to go on after you wash your face, and you have to let it on before you put on any serums, any lotions. Like, it has to go on clean skin. And for me, I have a routine like everybody else. I get up, I do my morning stuff, answer emails, got to go wash my face, and then I have my routine when I do my face. So to stop, put the mask on and make sure I get my ten minutes every day. Oh, okay. I didn't do it this morning, which I didn't. I have to do it tonight. Well, I was supposed to do it last night, and I just didn't get to it.

Amy Sherman: Yeah.

Katie Chandler: The mask is a hard one to do. I think that's why I can't get in the groove. The new face, I can do it with my morning routine. It's right there. But this mask, it's huge, and if it's not right in front of my.

Amy Sherman: Face, I forget to forget about it.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah, that's exactly it. But I'll tell you, when I get a zip, that sucker is going on.

Amy Sherman: It's maybe just a good tool to use when you're totally broken out. So moving in, I have a question about because I hear this word, I feel like it's a buzzword now, and I just want to understand what it actually means. Skin barrier. What does it mean? How do you treat it? What should we be thinking about when it comes to skin barrier? I don't really even understand what it means.

Natasha Brinkmann: Well, basically, it's the top layer of your skin really is what it is, right? So it's the top layer of the skin. And the reason why it's mainly compromised is people are overusing the acids, right? So they're using too many salicylic, glycolic, lactic acids or blends. They're not using the right acids for their skin type. Now, don't get me wrong, there are certain people that can use all different forms of acids, but certain ones work better than others for different skin types. And again, nobody talks about that. So that is why a lot of people, when they're doing or using too much retinol this week I've been featuring nothing but retinol.

Amy Sherman: Yes, I've been watching. Yes. So educational.

Natasha Brinkmann: Oh, thank you. Retinols. What they actually do is they kill off the top layer of your skin is basically what they're doing. That's why you get in the dry down. That's why your wrinkles look worse. The whole goal is because it wants to get the newer cells to hurry up, like to kick back into gear, which they do slow down. Like when we're in our twenty s and thirty s, it takes about 28, 31 days for our new skins from base all the way up. When we age, that can take two to three months of new skin cells. So that really slows everything down. And that's why retinol is so good. But because it's killed especially Tretinoin prescription strength, people just go right to the full monty and it's a horrible process. And some people can never get past a basic retinol, let alone some people can't use retinols. So you know what I mean? It's all about stimulating the skin, stimulating and getting everything up. But then you're compromising that skin barrier, and that's the biggest issue, because once it's compromised, so you're going to have larger pores, everything is going to look way more texture because it's inflamed, right? The pores are inflamed. Then you're going to have open little channels for bacteria and dirt. And if we didn't learn anything from COVID we really live in a very dirty environment 90% of the time, right? I don't want to be like a germaphool, but if you're susceptible to acne, that's not your friend, that's not going to help you. And when you're compromising it by using these too many acids in your cleansers and your toners, and then you're putting on your retinols, well, then it's a hot mess. And then you're going to age faster because your skin is not healed. It's not performing at its maximum capacity. So I know last one you talk about niacinamide. Niacinamide is a component of the skin barrier. It's something that fortifies the cell walls within the skin barrier. The other thing that you really need to be cognizant of is your lipids, your fats. So the lipids are naturally occurring in your skin. They're created by your sebaceous gland, so your oil gland. So have you ever noticed people with really oily skin age, like, incredibly.

Amy Sherman: Barely, like no wrinkles.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yes, it's because of that fattiness that supports. So think of your skin as bricks, like you see on a house, and the fatty acids or the lipids are in between. That's your mortar. So when it comes to skincare, what you want to do is you want to tack it three ways. You want to keep the fatty acids in there so that's your lipids and your ceramides. Then you want to also keep in the hydration, so your hyaluronic acids. And then you want to keep the structural support so that's your niacinamide. So all of a sudden, you have three ingredients that you need in your skincare routine on a daily basis as you're aging, that I just talked about, that you can now do. And Skin Fix just came out with a brand new barrier serum that I'm absolutely obsessed about. I had a commenter, said, how come your marionette lines aren't as deep? Like, are you using a filter? And I'm like, no, this is me. And I was like, I am testing out a new product. And I'm kind of hush hush about stuff because it's so new for me, but my skin is so thin and so dry. I find that products really amplify very quickly for me. So I usually know within about two weeks if something's working or not. And I've been really helping with this.

Amy Sherman: I have to try that. I know we were talking about a bunch of skin fixed products last time, and that's a new one. I got to try that.

Natasha Brinkmann: It's a new one. I just pulled up my list. Here, let me pull. I can save the list. I love my list. Yeah, if it works, it goes on my list. Okay, so it's called the skin fix barrier. Oh, hang on. My apologies. So skin fix barrier triple lipid collagen niacinamide activating serum that sounds like a triple whammy. It is. Now, I didn't go into the full details yet of the ingredients, so I just want to make sure that the collagen or collagen peptides, because if it's basic collagen, collagen molecularly is too big, it's not going to penetrate the skin. I'm assuming these are the lipids. So I have to go back and still do some research on it because, again, I'm still technically testing. But I'm just letting you guys know I'm kind of excited because it's really nice.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, it sounds really nice.

Katie Chandler: Back to the skin barrier thing. Do you find that a lot of people with premature aging and premature wrinkles, it just has a lot to do with that skin barrier is compromised, and they're like dehydration lines, and those things can be fixed relatively easily. Like if you're 36, 40, whatever it may be, and you've got a lot of little fine lines, it's probably that your skin is dehydrated, your skin barrier is compromised, and you can start to just use the right products and the right routine and snap back really quickly, right?

Natasha Brinkmann: Absolutely. As long as you're diligent with it and you're doing it every day. Yeah, absolutely. Keep it plump, keep it plump, keep it hydrated. Yeah. There's a huge difference between oily and hydration. Hydration is inside the skin. Oiliness is outside the skin, which you need because it protects that barrier. Again, it's that nice glossy over. I mean, I know a lot of people who are oily hate it because it's too much. Right. It's too much of the shellac, if you will. But a nice layer is really good because it does protect the skin, and it does give it that nice little barrier. Like, little things can bounce off of it, and it's like, you shall not pass. You're not coming in. It's important. But at the same time, hydration is key. And so if you're starting to see fine lines and wrinkles really quickly, you're probably dehydrated even my wrinkles on my main forehead, like my main line right in here. If I can keep that plump, it looks half as deep just by plumping it back up.

Amy Sherman: I was going to ask you about oil. I have, like, an oil cleanser that I use, which I love. It feels so good, but I also see people use just oils that they don't wash off. Are those good for you? I have very dry skin, too, so to me, it would seem like putting on an oil would be good. I just don't like the only oil I have is a cleanser. But are there certain oils that you would recommend for dry skin that you could keep on the skin that are helpful?

Natasha Brinkmann: Oh, yeah. There's tons of amazing oils. I call it skin glazing. So it's something that I throw in routines when people like you and me, we're really dry skin. That would be something I put at the end of the routine at night. So skin glazing is basically taking so you have all your water based products, right, and you put them over top of the skin, and then as you sleep, all that starts to absorb, but you also do dehydrate throughout the night. It does evaporate. So when you put something over top of it, either like Vaseline or oils, which I prefer because of the texture, it basically creates, like, a little pot, a little lid on the pot, and allows all your products, your water based products, to really absorb into the skin and keeps the top layer really hydrated. So you're getting the best you're sandwiching it in there, and you're making sure.

Amy Sherman: That this is very happy.

Natasha Brinkmann: And my favorite oil in the whole wide world and still to this day, is Herbivore Phoenix Oil.

Amy Sherman: I actually have that. And it's funny, I bought that. I mean, it's probably expired by now, but I remember buying that, and I didn't really know how to use it because it was before I was into all this stuff. Really, it was like I was just starting to experiment, and I didn't know. But now that you're saying to wear it at night, that makes sense. I had no idea how to use it.

Natasha Brinkmann: You just put it over top of your nighttime.

Amy Sherman: It just kind of sinks in at night.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah, it stays a little bit more on top, but you just kind of pat it in. And I call it skin glazing because you look like a glazed donut. When I tell people glazed, I want you to look lazy. I don't want you to look like a plain donut. We want full glow.

Amy Sherman: Love a glazed donut. Along with the glazed nails, too. We were talking about should we get into our wrap session, Katie?

Katie Chandler: Well, before we do, I want to hear Natasha's routine.

Natasha Brinkmann: I'm just so curious.

Amy Sherman: We need to know your morning and your night routine.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah, that's not fair. I'm testing I'm testing products right now, so I'm always testing. Let me be.

Amy Sherman: Yes. If you weren't testing and you were just like a normal vacation day, something like that, yeah.

Natasha Brinkmann: Okay. Would I have to be on budget? No budget. Whatever you budget. Oh, my God. Okay. No budget. I probably still use the same cleanser that I have, which is the ordinary squealing cleanser, because it's just perfect for my skin. Anything like a richer emollient is really nice on dry skin, so I love that. Or the skin fix. They have a really nice foaming oil cleanser, so any one of those would be fantastic. If I could. For makeup removing, I would do the two botanicals. The turmeric makeup removing balm is sublime. I want to do, like, a downward dog yoga pose while I'm wearing it because it's not so good. It's just amazing. For my serums daytime, there is a new product from Emk Beverly Hills called the Rescue Serum, and it's a proprietary blend, which I'm not a fan of because they usually typically don't work. But when I tried this very high end Beverly Hills, this bottle is, like, $250, and I'm really obsessed with it. I keep going back thinking, I really liked how it firmed up my skin, tightened, brightened my skin. It's just one of those ones where it just stood out from a lot of the other products I've tested. So I love that one. I definitely love the skin fix. The new one I was talking about the activating serum, because that's keeping me juicy and plumpy, so I'd probably keep that in there. And I'd have to see how the chubula would work from True botanicals, because I just ran out, and I'm really missing it. So I would use that.

Amy Sherman: This is all morning.

Natasha Brinkmann: This is all morning.

Amy Sherman: Okay, just clarifying, because we might copy this routine.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah. Again, this is based on me and my needs. I know. I'm just trying but with that being said, the moisturizer, I would probably either use the cocoa kind or the skin fix. Because I love both. The cocoa kind really is juicy and plumpy, but right now it's super, super dry here in Alberta. So I'd probably stick with the skin fix until the humidity went up a little bit.

Amy Sherman: The cocoa kind one like, what is cocoa kind?

Natasha Brinkmann: Awesome. It's a smaller company, but they have what's called poly. Let me find the name so I say it properly. You can buy it online.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, it's a brand.

Natasha Brinkmann: I just haven't resurrection polypeptide cream. It's almost like tatcha. So it looks like the Tatcha dewy water cream, but it's more plumpy. You get a lot more plump out of it. It's gorgeous.

Amy Sherman: So is that like, better during the day, not as both day or night. Okay.

Natasha Brinkmann: Or night? Yeah, you could use it both day or night. I love it because even my oily clients love it because it plumps them up, it gives them that fullness, but it doesn't make them feel oily or extra. You know how sometimes you have a moisturizer on, feels oily or not? Yeah, exactly. And it doesn't do that. So I love that one. So that would probably be my day. And then my SPF, of course, would be either my isn't tree SPF or my ilia, which is my tinted moisturizing serum, which I use all the time. And I adore that one. My nighttime would look very much the same as the morning, so except I would so wash my face. Then I would probably use either. Well, I'm waiting for Topology. Their argline solution is incredible, but they've been out of stock because they kind of went viral last year, so they're trying to play catch up. They have the best arguine solution to date that I've tested.

Amy Sherman: I know, I've watched her videos on that. I really want to try it.

Natasha Brinkmann: Oh, it's nice. And I'd even like their stick. Like, I'm digging out my stick right now because they're out of all of it. Come on. And they're matrixal. I love skin divas matrixal synthetic six. I would say neck and neck with topology. Like, it is sensational. And that one, I would use either one of those two. Then I would probably use my Beverly Hills emk serum, rescue serum, then that skin fix serum. And then I'd probably put on my retinol. I'm really in love with mailov right now. They have a retinol, so it's a step up from retinal instead of a retinol. So it's al. So it's a step up higher and it's a bright yellow. And I think it's called moonlight here.

Amy Sherman: You mentioned it last time, and I actually bought it.

Natasha Brinkmann: I haven't tried it yet. So this is something once you've done a retinol for a long time and you're feeling like, okay, I'm not really seeing fine lines. Still don't seem to be kind of progressing as well as I want. Then you would move up to this one. And I love it. I really love it. The longer I use it, the better my skin looks. And I'm obsessed.

Katie Chandler: The matrixel, is that just a nighttime thing? Because I've been using it day and night, so I need to switch to only night.

Natasha Brinkmann: Well, it can be used day. Right? There's lots of options that you can use. It's just it can't be used with vitamin C because it breaks down the bonds. So that's the trick. And if you're using a vitamin C during the day or a niacinamide, then you're covered. Like niacinamide can be used with matrixal, just not vitamin C. So it depends. I would change up my routine, though, because I love putting in certain things at certain times of the year. I also love to do copper peptides because that's a real great way. Like if you have that face dump where your face looks like it just gave up on you and you've lost all of that, and it happens. I think I got it at 46. I noticed the face dump, I'm like, what the hell? I've been loving you. What is going on? So I have to say that was a shocker. And then I got onto the copper peptides from Biosense, which is superior to the ordinary. I just want to say that because most people that try the ordinary don't see results. But with the copper peptides from Biosense, when I do like a whole bottle of that, my skin just plumps right back up and I love it. I always get, oh, you've got filler in your face. No, I'm just plumping it up.

Amy Sherman: The old and you use that at night, the copper peptides, but you can.

Natasha Brinkmann: Use it during the day. Again, in retinol weeks, she goes, Can I do copper peptides during the day and then retinols at night? Yeah, you can, and you know what, that's probably something I should try.

Amy Sherman: So after your retinol, you were talking about the retinol from May Love. Do you do moisturizer on top of that?

Natasha Brinkmann: Always moisturize, and if it's really dry, I put oil over top of that. Or like the topology has the caviar stick, which is really rich. So I'll put that on or I'm still, like I said, digging out the argoline stick that has a nice rich.

Amy Sherman: Hanging on to every last ingredient.

Natasha Brinkmann: Yeah, when you find something you love and you obsess over, that's why I share it, because I'm like, no, I only share what I feel is really good. I do share stuff. That's okay because everybody's budget is very different. But generally speaking, if it works, I talk about it. If it doesn't work, I just don't talk about it.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, no, it's so helpful. Okay, so I think we should get into a wrap session so we don't lose you and lose the answers. Okay, so quick answers. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Natasha Brinkmann: My favorite or one of your favorites? Definitely laser treatments. That to me is like a solid underscore and a little filler here or there. Like I said, for my lips, that will always be in my routine, for sure. And just the consistency of my routine. That, to me, is like my religion. That's my time. I love doing that.

Katie Chandler: The next one is your five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dried off Ubers pinged you and they're five minutes away. So you're going to do your skincare routine that you just told us really quickly, and then what are you going to do to get out the door and get in that Uber on time in five minutes? Yeah, put it this way.

Amy Sherman: You don't have time to do that whole skin routine. Like, what are those Holy Grails that you're like, all right, if I don't put on anything else, I got to put on these things to get up.

Katie Chandler: Boom, boom, boom. Yeah, there you go.

Amy Sherman: Isn't that a hard question?

Natasha Brinkmann: That would be really hard because I would probably slap every **** thing I just quickly as I could, throw in my ilia, put my hair in a bun, and then, yeah, throw in some rule of lemons and hope to God I don't have anything sticking out of my pants. I would definitely throw in a couple of serums, probably a couple of my serums if this was the morning I'd put on. So again, one of my serums, or the one that I was talking about, skin fix and then moisturizer and then ilya over top because it's a tinted moisturizing.

Amy Sherman: That's a great one.

Natasha Brinkmann: And it gives me my SPF. It gives me everything all in one. And that would probably be the quickest thing, but I would never be late. That doesn't happen. I need my beauty routine. I have my time set aside so I have enough time to I know.

Amy Sherman: And it is relaxing, I find.

Katie Chandler: So true. All right, and the last one is, how do you maintain your daily nirvana? Maybe it's your beauty routine that maintains your nirvana.

Natasha Brinkmann: Well, you know what? It's funny because my husband and I, we do every night, we do five things we're grateful for every single night. And it's just something that we kind of got into just to stay grounded and stay in the moment, because life can get really crazy. And my husband has been dealing with colon cancer for the last four years, which we finally thank you, but we believe we're at the end of it now. And for us, it helped us keep us grounded. So you didn't get stuck in the fear. It was more for the mental health, but now we don't stop. Like last night, I'm like, do you want to do the five things we're grateful for? He goes, I'm so tired. Let's do it tomorrow. I'm like, okay. And then 2 seconds later, he goes, no, it doesn't feel right not to do it. So now it's our routine, and we just say five things. It could be anything simple, like, I'm just really grateful I had great clients today, or I'm grateful my cold is finally giving up things like that. And it changes. And we try to make sure we don't say the same thing over and over again because then it kind of takes away from the exercise. But that's what I yeah, that's really good.

Amy Sherman: I love that.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's a great practice. Wonderful. Well, Natasha, we are so incredibly grateful for your time and honestly, like, pen and paper and notes. So when you're listening to this episode and maybe listen to it a couple.

Amy Sherman: Everything will be in the show notes.

Natasha Brinkmann: Don't worry.

Katie Chandler: I have to hear the details over and over again on when to do this, at what time. And so, yeah, I think our listeners, this episode is going to be downloaded multiple times by lots of people.

Natasha Brinkmann: So thank you for your time.

Amy Sherman: Don't forget to follow Natasha B on TikTok on Instagram. Will you tell us your handles again, just so everybody knows?

Natasha Brinkmann: Yes, I'm on TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram. And Instagram is natasha beauty junkie monkey. Facebook is beauty junkie monkey. And TikTok is Beautyjm zero.

Katie Chandler: Got it. All right, well, before we go, we like to wrap with a little mantra or quote or just friendly reminder. So I think we're talking about all this beauty. So I kind of liked this one. To be beautiful means to be yourself. You don't need to be accepted by others. You need to accept yourself. Self acceptance, do your little beauty routine to make you feel good.

Natasha Brinkmann: Accept yourself. Exactly.

Amy Sherman: And embrace yourself. Exactly. And just want to say thank you again for all your time. We could literally spend hours talking about.

Natasha Brinkmann: This stuff with you.

Amy Sherman: We just really value your time and I know our listeners will, too, so you can come back anytime. We'd love to have you as much.

Natasha Brinkmann: As you want to.

Amy Sherman: Come on, because this is just so helpful and learning how to take care of our skin and ourselves. So much fun. Thank you again.

Natasha Brinkmann: You're very welcome. And thank you, Katie and Amy, for having me and reaching out to me. This was amazing. I enjoyed it very, very much. And I'd be happy to come back. So maybe we can do a third one. Love it. Absolutely.

Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 96 - Acids & Peptides & Ceramides Oh My! Answering Your Skincare Product Questions With Natasha Brinkmann (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast episode 96.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Unknown:0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy:0:27

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters, Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie, and we are joined by Natasha Brinkman or Natasha b Who is a trained esthetician, skincare expert and educator. You may know her as beauty junkie maki on Tik Tok, where she has over 350,000 followers. That's how we found her so much amazing skincare advice we trust all her recommendations and all of her insight. Natasha is very unique in her field because she's completely independent of any brand. And this provides her with unbiased opinions on all skincare lines. She thrives on finding each diamond product that each brand has and shares it within her community giving others the best bang for their buck. So Natasha is online consultations, business consultation business is worldwide. She designed skincare routines for those around the world. And her success has her completely booked for the next six months. So hopefully the Nirvana sisters family can get in sooner than that. But we are so glad to have you here. Natasha, thank you so much for joining us today.

Unknown:1:28

Oh, thank you, Amy. I sincerely appreciate that.

Amy:1:31

Awesome. Well, we are going to start out we have so many questions. But before we start out, we just want to take a step back and do our nirvana of the week, something that brought us joy, happiness this week that we can reflect upon. And I will hand it over to Katie, to give us her Nirvana the week.

Unknown:1:45

Oh, thanks. So really quickly. Before I do that, I just want to say hi to Natasha and I'm so happy you're here because you single handedly saved my skin. And we'll get into why here shortly. But I think my I have probably like two Nirvana's one that happened, and then a future one for tomorrow. But I am traveling for the first time for work and a few long time not a few years, a long time. And it's just been kind of a Nirvana and it's Oh, and it's fun. It's fun to be like on the road. And I'm working for a great client. And while I miss my family, it's it's it's just been kind of exciting to do all of this stuff again. So that was a nirvana. And then my next one is tomorrow, we're in Baltimore. And I'm in Baltimore for my client, and my kids and my husband are going to come and meet me. And we're going to go to the aquarium here. And I'm so excited because it's really like one of the best aquariums in the country and my girls love and aquarium. So it'll just be a really fun day. I'm excited. What about you, Amy?

Amy:2:39

Oh, that's cute. So I would say my run of the week was last night. So I went out for girlfriend's birthday. It was just four of us, and had a great meal. And it's just so fun when you go out with great friends really close friends, and you just have those different conversations that you don't have with other people. So we laughed, we cried. We just the range of topics we talked about. Were just so funny. And so age appropriate. It was just like a great. It was just a great night. So I really appreciated that because I haven't had a good like connection with girlfriends in a couple weeks. So it was just really, really nice. What about you Natasha

Unknown:3:11

being here. This is very exciting for me, I was pretty, I was pretty stoked. I'm like, No, we gotta do this. So this is definitely my moments.

Amy:3:21

Oh, love to hear that.

Unknown:3:23

Yeah, thank you. All right. Well, before we kick it off, I'm going to just tell you my really quick Natasha B story because like I said, You saved my skin. I was using an exfoliant every day as my face lotion as serum Sunday Riley's good genes, which is a great product, but I didn't know how to use it. I was using it wrong. And I came across your content. And I started watching your videos and you taught me what an exfoliant is and why shouldn't be using it every day. Maybe my skin likes it once a week. So literally, you saved my skin. My skin was an absolute mess for maybe the last year it was dry. It was flaky. It was red. It was watching. It was acne. It was oily and it was everything. Everything. So thank you, Natasha. Oh, I love hearing this. This is this is why I do what I do. It's it's it's there's so much information out there. And they don't teach people how to take care of their skin. They don't teach people that skincare products do different things for different skin and different skin types. You know, like one person can use an acid every single day and have absolutely amazing skin. But that's a small percentage. And my biggest rant right now is I'm sure you saw is all about using Ha's and BH A's, which are acids in your cleanser and in your toners and then using it other active ingredients with it. It's just it turns into a hot mess and then you unbalanced the skin and then you're wondering where what the heck happened to my face was good and then it wasn't good. And then you keep doing the same things over processing and it just becomes a just accumulation of a hot mess as I like to call it. That's exactly

Amy:4:59

yeah, and it's to true because you're right, there's so much information out there and everyone wants to try all these products. But if you don't know how to use them and you don't know how to use them for your skin and you're not working with someone like you or someone that actually like, has expertise, you can totally mess up your skin. Well and

Unknown:5:15

also those products they always say on the bottle use day and night, like they say us once or twice a week, depending on what your skin can handle or any you know, it's like it's so it's very misleading. So having said that, let's break down what some of these products are because we're hearing a lot of buzzwords on nice synonymized exfoliants. Like you said, Ajay BHA, of course, the vitamin C's and the peptides. So give us kind of a 101 on what all those things are. So your Ha's and BHA so your alpha hydroxy acids and your beta hydroxy acids, those are basically your acids, your exfoliant. And right now, what's kind of being pushed in the industry is using that in your cleanser and your toner, specifically, if you have problematic skin, meaning if you have a breakout or two or acne skin, but the problem is, is that I don't know about you guys, but most of the people that I talk to when I say well, I have acne, it's really bad. And they're really bad is like three breakouts on the chin. So there's a there's a bit of a misconception of what acne skin looks like and what how bad a breakout is, might be bad for you, because that's outside your norm. But that's kind of like the biggest kind of people's interpretation of what acne skin or breakout skin can be. It's very broad, very broad. So of course, companies put it out there, oh, well, we use a small amount, we use a small amount. But I always go back to the old saying, Well, if you have a piece of wood, and it just needs a little sanding, and you sand it down just a little bit, then it's perfect. Right? It looks it feels good, it looks good. You can put the oils on it and hydrates, it looks great. But if you keep filing it down, falling down, falling it down, you start getting rough edges and that glow, and you start getting you know what I mean? Like the little pics of the over filing it, it's a kind of a crude way of putting it. But that's kind of how I look at using acids in your skincare. This is definitely has its place. And yes, there's certain skin types that can use acids on a daily basis, but you don't have to use it on a daily basis. Remember, companies want to sell you their product, that is their main goal, right. And very few, very few companies actually design a skincare for people or their routines because in fairness, that's tough to do. Everybody has different needs in that area. So that's where I have an issue with the hspgs being in cleansers and toners because most people don't need it there. They need it as a treatment separately on a different night. So he is nbha. So he has your your glycolic acid, your lactic acid, your Mandelic Acid, your A z like acid, those are your acids, they they take off the surface area of the skin, BHA is your salicylic acid, that's the stuff that actually goes down deep into the pore and cleans it out almost like like a little washing machine just goes in there and cleans it right out. But it doesn't really talk touched the surface area, but it can dry out the surface area. So you when you have a combination of I have really bad blackheads and I have really bad oil production then yes, and ah a slash BHA. So usually it's a blend of lactic acid, glycolic acid is what's going to be beneficial for your skin type. But if you're like me and you're dried, dehydrated skin, lactic acid is your best friend because it's a humectant and pulls moisture to your to itself. So it's not as aggressive as a glycolic, which is a smaller molecule and can really get in there and try it on the skin. So

Amy:8:39

I have a question. So all of those acids you talked about are? Are they in the category of exfoliators? Or is it okay? So are the those are the kind that like, like Katie was mentioning, like good genes where you keep it on? But what about the exfoliators? Like the ones that are textured, you know, that you just put in your face and rinse off? Is that like a different category? Because I never know which you should be using both different like, how does that work?

Unknown:9:04

Well, there's enzymes, right? And then there's a manual exfoliants right. So you manuals are like those microbeads that were really big, like 1020 years ago, remember those and they were like awesome. And then we found out oops, they're not perfectly spherical. And we're causing micro tears in the skin, which can cause pigmentation and you will basically you're opening up the skin for any type of bacteria and breakouts. But we realized that's not great. Not to mention that microbeads weren't exactly being manufactured. Well, there's some cheaper versions, which we found were polluting the environment. So you know, there's a lot of stuff that we've kind of learned throughout the years. Nowadays, I like to stay away from doing a manual abrasion type of peel. I really liked that they were really focused more on the HSBA Chase and there's different levels of course, but I really liked that because again, the other thing I noticed working with people is that people can be very heavy handed. You know when they're exfoliating they would just sit there and grind it into their skin and like oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no living organism. To Be gentle. I always say touch your face like you're touching a baby how you would How will you press a baby that's that's the kind of pressure you really want to do on your skin. You know legs and arms. That's completely different story but your face you should really touch it like it's a baby. So I personally there it does have its place in certain situations, but I tend to like to go more towards the the acids that you can use, like the ones from the ordinaries. They work really, really great. Polish choice has really good ones out there. formulations. Yeah, well, it's choice. Yeah, Polish choice switched from Sunday Riley's good genes, I think it was just too much. And like the fact that it's serum and you leave it on, I feel like it was kind of stripping my skin. So now I'm using the polished choice, but I only use it twice a week. Well, that's no That's exactly it. You use it less than you probably get better better skin out of it. Yeah. So what are what are let's get into like serum mites and the vitamin serum mites or night. Serum right and a nice and am I the same thing or no? No, not really. So nice cinema. It said I'm sorry, it fortifies the cell walls. So what it's a vitamin B three, I guess is the best way to put it. And and what it does is it helps to fortify those cell walls. So you guys can see me this is what like a poor would do. And whenever anybody is talking to me about texture, like I have a lot of texture, I have a lot of oil production, my skin barrier is compromised, it's not doing so well. What that does is it basically helps to heal those cell walls. And it helps to keep them nice and firm and taut. It's nice, that image should be technically used with everybody. It is so good. Any and every skin type can use it because when you fortify those cell walls, again, you bring down texture, so you stop getting that huge bumpiness in the skin that people find when they have oily skin. It also brings down inflammation. It's a powerful powerful antioxidant. So that works exceptionally well against the elements. Not to mention it does help brighten up the skin as well. And it also it another little superpower it has is it helps to regulate your sebum production, which is your oil glands. So it helps to relax that hyperactive sebaceous secretion that people with oily or oily magnetic skin have and it just calms it down. But the problem with niacin amide is it takes time, it takes time to kick in. And a lot of people they're like, Oh, I've used it for two weeks, I've done nothing. Well, no, it hasn't even done a skin cycle. A skin cycle would be basically from we the general consensus is between 28 to 31 days, but as we age, it slows down. So that means you're probably going to have to wait a little bit longer for your skin products to actually kick in and work. And it can take anywhere between three to six months for nice to the mind to really kick in for certain people. So and things like that are kind of what are going to help rebuild the cell wall. Of course, Sarah might also help to fortify the cell walls within the skin so you're not compromising the barrier and that's how you keep the skin looking nice and juicy and plump and not red. Okay,

Amy:12:48

so for niacin amide. Can you use it morning and night? Absolutely. Absolutely. And what is the difference between nice and amide and hyaluronic so hyaluronic acid so from what I know is like very hydrating but it's not as it's not the same asset as like the AGM BJs we were talking about before. Okay, and so I always I always get confused on the difference between nice and amine and hyaluronic because it feels like those two ingredients are in everything or Yeah,

Unknown:13:17

and for good reason. They work really really well together. Like if you have compromised skin barrier or rosacea skin or acne skin, anything like that thin skin, what hyaluronic acid specifically be five it's really unique because the hyaluronic acid pulls moisture to itself like a like a little sponge. But the B five actually helps to hydrate the cell walls in between. So it's like a little bit extra extra. When you do that you fortify the cell walls with a niacin amide you got a really nice happy little marriage of two really solid ingredients that really help to keep the skin firm, juicy, plump and hydrated. The thing with serums that you really have to remember is they are not your moisturizer, so you cannot put a hyaluronic acid and then a niacin amide and then go out and go, Oh, my skin looks dry and dull and it's it's cracking and it's well yeah, because that's not a hydrator it says it's a serum it is serums are basically like what's the best way to describe that? Your multivitamin, your dose of what you're trying to do for your skin to help get your skin nice and healthy. And then are the are the peptides the what is the Yeah, what are the peptides and what is the skin see in the moisturizer, the next step that we want to protect our skin barrier. So when it comes to peptides, there's like, oh, there's a lot. There's like different forms of peptides. There's hydrating peptides, they're stimulating peptides, they're neuron peptides that help to like the RB line or Carolina some people call it I'm Canadian, so I called it our Dline but but basically like that's kind of a neuron peptidic tells the muscles not to move as much or as deep or as penetrative. Then you have Matrixyl 3000 Which is really exciting again, was not big in the field when it back in the day. I'm glad I'm back in it now, but back in, oh gosh, 20 years ago when there was no metrics, so I don't think it came into play until like early 2000, I believe somewhere like that. So the skincare game has changed considerably. And peptides have really make a comeback. Now, there's a lot of people out there that have different varying opinions about peptides. And I, I read the research on it. So when I look it up, I'm like, it doesn't sound too promising, but what the heck, I'm going to try it. That's why I test everything that I talked about. Because I you know, I'm skeptic like everybody else. And I'm also very curious because I've also known throughout the years that you can't just look at it blindly with one set of eyes, you have to try it from different angles and see what works and what doesn't work. And for me peptides really has changed the game for a lot of women and men out there who are just trying to plump up and juice up their skin and just kind of give it the best bang. So peptides, like Metrix are exciting because they stimulate collagen and elastin production, which slows considerably as you age. And there's different versions of them different formulas, like for instance, if you're in your late 20s, early 30s. And you want like just to get a good all round peptide. The ordinary has there used to be called buffet, but I believe they calling it a polypeptide or something like that. It was an incredible formulation of different types of peptides in there, and it worked exceptionally well. I really, really love that one. But for me, I'm a huge fan of metrics or metrics or synthetic six, which is is that like a CRM, or is it a moisturizer? Yeah, it's a serum. And again, there's a lot of products that will either put it in a serum, so it's almost like your power packed your your major dosing, or they'll put it in your moisturizer, which has, you know, hit Miss results, right? Because when you put the more ingredients you put together, you're not not they don't always work, Senator son, I can't even say it today synergistically. They don't always do that perfectly together. But the same can be said about a syrup, like certain serums are just basic, and they kind of fall flat. Not because the active ingredient isn't good. It's because it's not being supported by the other ingredients that help to enhance it. So that's something I'm still learning like I I'm still doing a lot of research and going in through a whole bunch of different products. But I've been so busy doing consultations that it's kind of slowed that down a little bit. So I'm trying to get back into my you know, my groove,

Amy:17:22

I just I'm, I got a little like trial size of something called I just looked it up. It's a moisturizer, it's, it's by the brand Skinfix and it's called barrier plus and it says triple lipid peptide peptide cream. I've been using it at night, and it's really moisturizing. It feels so good, especially in the winter and I love it I don't know if it's the peptides or whatever it is but like it's just really really like creamy and thick and moisturizing. But that had peptides in it and that's what I was gonna ask you like she doesn't even work in the cream doesn't it's Yeah, it sounds like it's better to put it directly on your skin versus to a moisturizer but it doesn't hurt if it's in a moisturizer, right?

Unknown:17:59

No and there's different forms like there's hundreds of different forms of peptides out there. Right so once in this Skinfix triple lipid peptide cream. Those are really big on the lipids on the fatty acids that are within that skincare so you're not going to see a trixl in that you're going to see different forms of peptides in there. And those are the ones that protect the skin barrier. They're really heavy in the Sara mites so it's really like Skinfix is one of my cult favorites. We love that one. I said I say to all my clients if I was in clinic, I would have a wall of it with that because of the different formulations because it is so effective. So effective, no good and it's hydrating, but it doesn't. What's the best way to put it it's hydrated but it's not oily. And they love the receipt at all you know and for those that are really oily kind of oily econetic Skin their gel formulation is sensational. I absolutely love it. So those are two products and I think that's why I liked the Skinfix so much because it's a little bit more user friendly for the majority of those skin types out there. Yeah, they also have a really good product to have their their cleansers are also a favorite of mine. So they have the basic cleanser which is there my friends might have my list let me pull up my list.

Amy:19:11

Oh we love to have I have

Unknown:19:13

once I've checked once I've tested it and I deem it worthy I know that sounds so sounds so funny. I feel like a little queen in my little realm here but I didn't be worthy it makes my list. Basically basically it means I can recommend this to other people comfortably and say you're probably going to do pretty good with this. Everybody has their different experiences but this is kind of how I do mine but it's called the foaming oil hydrating cleanser which is absolutely sensational. It will not it will not compromise your skin barrier. It's not going to wreck it. It is safe for pretty much every skin type out there. But here's the thing for people with really oily skin and I'm not talking just T zone but those that suffer from really oily skin chronically. They're they're foaming clay cleanser spectacular because the CLAY actually helps absorb all that extra oil and when you pair that with you're using a niacin amide serum which is going to help bring down the hyperactive sebaceous secretion. And then you use perhaps their, I believe it's called their skin barrier nice that it might restoring gel, you're still keeping that hydration level up in the skin so the oil glands don't go crazy. And the nice citta might help to fortify and reduce the extra hyperactive sebaceous secretions. So it's a beautiful I love I love those products.

Amy:20:26

Love it. And then I know we talked I don't know if we asked you this before when we were talking about the H nbha. Is do you have I know we mentioned Polish choice? Do you have other brands that like what else what's on your list for for the exfoliators

Unknown:20:38

I have lots again, and it all depends on the individual and the type. So for me lactic acid 10% The ordinary it's, it's a cheap, awesome trick that works just just works brilliantly. L'Oreal Revitalift 10% glycolic serum. Absolutely awesome. And you can use you can just get it at your local Drug Mart and glad a glycolic acid is really good for normal skin types. You know, not too oily, not too too dry, kind of right in the middle. It's wonderful. And I like it that it's in a serum because it's a little bit more hydrating than your typical glycolic toner that you can get from the ordinary, you know, like that one, I'm not a fan of as much because it's really drying on the skin. So for me, it's kind of like oh, you know that one, I'll tell you a good trick about that. One side note. If you have really bad callus heals, throw on like put a little pouch pad of the glycolic serum, wipe it on your heels and put your moisturizer overtop skin changer. You're gonna have to try that. Yeah, it's a great little trick that it's fantastic of for people with really thick, oily skin, they can come they can get away with it, but it's not my favorite formula because like I said, it's pretty dry. And my my theory is I'd rather keep it a little bit more hydrating. That's why I like the glycolic serum from L'Oreal Revitalift. Because it's a little bit more hydrating, it's a little bit more supportive.

Amy:22:00

And so there's that, that they have like an under eye kind of serum to my thinking of the right one with like this. There's like silver, kind of like balls at the end. I don't know if that's how.

Unknown:22:10

Yeah, that's the hyaluronic acid when you're talking about Yeah, that's the hyaluronic acid you can put around your eyes. That one's Excellent. But ya know that it's generic, you know, hyaluronic acid after a while it's kind of hyaluronic acid, right? It's like, yeah, there's, there's $50 versions, do they work better than five $10 versions a little bit, you know, they're a nicer formula. They go on a little bit nicer, but they kind of technically do the same thing. So different molecular weights, there's always a little extra nuances that can make them just a little bit better, a little bit more luxurious, but I'll be damned if I ever pay 50 bucks for it. I will spend $100 on a cream if I see the value in it, but I am not going to pay $50 for hyaluronic acid. That's where I get cheap. It's so true that you can get such great products at drugstores now as well like therapy, I started using surbeys hyaluronic acid and niacin amide cream or CRM and it is fantastic. I'm I love it. And also I'm really until the Roche Posay now they're a great price point. Very nice. Yeah, very nice sign. So I'm so fascinated by this because you're so insanely educated on all of these details. So how you create these protocols or these routines for your clients. It's just brilliant. So they come to you and they say these are my problems ABCD and you put together a program for them. Yeah, yeah. Basically put together a skincare routine based on their skin type their needs and where they're at in their life because some people they're like, yeah, no, I'm okay with that. I just want this and I'm like okay, you know, for them. I have one client she's like, I know the wrinkles are coming I just My skin's just unbalanced. I just want a basic skincare routine. Nothing fancy just something I can be religious with and just have good skincare and like you got it. I had another client yesterday actually. She was amazing. She's like, I followed your routine and some of the routines that you were kind of putting together and on tick tock and she goes I had a horrible allergic reaction to a type of medication and the only place she didn't peel was the areas where she had taken care of her skin so her face her neck and her chest. But the rest of her body peeled due to this reaction she had to medication. So I just that just goes to show that your diligence you know in your skincare can make such a difference. Where could you

Amy:24:19

sorry, kidding are like 10,000 questions. Do you have a favorite vitamin C brand and question for you on that you put that on first? And then the niacin amide etc. Or like what's the order like I have a heart a lot of people get tripped up on like, what do you put on first and last but

Unknown:24:35

it depends on the vitamin C so the ascorbic acid form of vitamin C from skin deeba is truly my ultimate favorite with but that's that's a hot like that's a you worked your way up to it. If you are brand new and you go right telescopic acid you may or may not enjoy it, you know because it based on your skin type. It is the most potent I call her the diva of all of all, vitamin C. She's highly potent, highly reactive. She is also highly unstable. Oh, so she just she requires a little bit extra love. So she's, she's high maintenance but damn does she does her job like, this is the diva that's gonna sing the opera she's she's going to do it. So that's why I quite love her but I say that lovingly in the fact that your skin has to be dry. So you can technically put your hyaluronic acid and your nice and wide and all your serums on first. But the first rule of skincare is thinnest to thickest waterbased than a creams than oils. So when you're looking at like, for instance, Guindy about this one, it is a more of a water base. So that would go on first on dry skin, then you're going to let it absorb for a good solid minute, then you would put on anything that would be like a serum base, like your hyaluronic acid, you're nice and like any of those, your chebula, which is also a favorite of mine. And what I like to do, because a lot of them are carried in hyaluronic acid is when I apply it on my skin is I'll take a couple of drops and then I'll just kind of wet my fingertips or just give a light spray really far away because I don't want to overwhelm it. I just want to give it a little bit of slip factor. And then I would rub it in all over my face. let that soak in. Then I put on my creams and then my SPF and then ready for the day. That's it another tip of yours that I need to start to use and that is when you put a product on your face. Give it a second to get in there and do its job before you slap the next thing on. I'm like bubble gum, you know,

Amy:26:21

really you're rushing and you're like Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Unknown:26:25

very good tip. It's good to break it up. And you know, just brush your teeth. Go make your bed run after your kid like you know, sometimes it's good to break it up a little bit here and there. Some people ask well do I have to wait a full minute really, honestly give give your vitamin C a minute. Just give that one a full minute let her do her job. The serums are usually pretty pretty quick at absorbing like another good form of vitamin C is ascorbic acid which is not as strong but it's still very potent and that one is better on dry skin as well. Then when you go into like the texture heckled dako, ascorbic acid which is my favorite ultimate fatty acid awesome juiciness. That one works really well but you can actually layer it under your vitamin like under your serums and stuff like that. It doesn't it doesn't start working until it penetrates into the skin and it's a beautiful ingredient. I love that one. What's your view item and see for sensitive skin. Oh sensitive skin. I love herbivore Nova that that that sucker is awesome. And it's so juicy are so juicy and plumping it's got some alpha arbutin which helps to prevent excess melanin production. It does have a little bit of T chebula in there as well which is a very incredible powerful antioxidant. There's so many good turmeric as well which helps to reduce and lighten and brighten the skin like it just evens everything out. It's beautiful. But again, it's long term use you're not going to see results within like five 510 days you're gonna really have to just play the long game on it and some pigmentation just is not going to move. I have this little spot back my hand I've had it lasered I put products on it you name it I've done it ain't going anywhere she's like no you I'm with your girl that's it.

Amy:28:02

We're nasties

Unknown:28:05

so sometimes you just have to understand that there's certain things that are never gonna go away and kind of have to make your peace with that I was having such a hard time with vitamin C but I think it's because I was using the Sunday Riley good genes daily I think that was probably the culprit to all of my problems. So I'm gonna give it an I'm gonna give it another go. I'll try that one. Yeah, to try to try the Nova Yeah, that was fantastic.

Amy:28:27

So I was gonna switch topics because this is another topic that is Katie knows very passionate about which is under eyes. Oh yeah. Like dark circles bags like dry skin hollowness. What do you got? Tell us about brands, moisturizers things.

Unknown:28:48

Absolutely so did apology kind of went viral last year because they had gifted me one of their metrics holes and along with their eye patches and so forth. And although I did like the eye patches and metrics which just blew me out of the water, because what it did is it helped plump up my skin around the Holliness around my eyes as well as it again add some firmness because you're adding hydration you're basically kind of tired you were just talking

Amy:29:12

tricks that under your I got it

Unknown:29:14

oh I put that all over like I bathed in that that goes all over you want neck skin you want chest skin you want everything like I'll be 48 on Tuesday next week and there was literally your skin is gorgeous well I'm lucky because I get to play with a lot of product now that I would have never been would have never been open to in the past right so this is this is the kind of the perk of my of my job now which I'm really appreciative but I also share all my knowledge so everybody else can try different products as well and see which one's work best for their skin but

Amy:29:44

use that yeah, what what else like do you put on favorite eye creams like any tips for

Unknown:29:50

Yeah, so Charlotte Tilbury has really nice eye cream, really nice and it does help. Definitely help firm up my skin. There's another brand that I just finished Testing out and it did sensational. I used to roll my eyes. It wasn't a specific eye cream. It was the whole system itself. It's called EMK. Yeah, en que Beverly Hills. Sorry, I just have the little thing beside me because I'm gonna do a video on that. So that's my my refresher note to do that. That was an incredible system. highly expensive, though. So it is truly a Beverly Hills one, but it worked exceptionally well around my eyes. Apologies caviar stick is a great hydrator it's not going to firm up the skin. Like the Charlotte Tilbury one, but it's a great hydrator. So if you have a really dry, dehydrated one, that caviar stick is seasonal. I'm testing out true botanicals, they have an ice serum. I'm loving it, I put it on this morning, and I'm super super happy with it. So far. So good. I'm just still in the early stages of testing. So

Amy:30:44

love that. And while we're on the under ice subject, any favorite concealers

Unknown:30:49

Lancome Lancome, is it $40 One that that came out? Oh, it's been a couple years now. But that one still is a tried and true.

Amy:30:57

Okay, we're always looking for good eye creams and failure. So thank you for that.

Unknown:31:02

My page, I promise I will always keep you up to date on anything new, I try to go on as much as possible. So then that way people can make an informed decision. And, you know, know that, okay, somebody tested it, they liked it, you know, and they thought there was value to it. And that's what I love about being independent is that although I may work with brands after I like them, I don't do the other. I don't do it the other way. I was just offered a huge contract. Law and I thought was huge. And they're like, Yep, no, we want you to do this within a couple of weeks. I'm like, no, no, no, no, I gotta test it. So they're happy to do this, but I have to test it. See if I like it. And then we can talk and they're like, Oh, well, no, we need to do it. And I'm like, Nah, I'm not interested. Dude, sorry. Good for you. I worked my butt off to to keep my integrity means everything to me. And I worked my butt off to earn that.

Amy:31:47

Trust. Exactly. Yeah, I respect your opinion. So that's good.

Unknown:31:51

Yeah, so I'm not into that. Speaking of opinions, what's your opinion on skin cycling? Do you have any of your clients doing skin cycling? Well, when I put them on a, an actual program, there was a version that we actually do together. So I do put them on a program based on their skin type and their skin needs, which would consult well with the skin cycle, really. But it's not like what you're seeing from one dermatologist, I think they she came out with this, you know, do it this day to do it. They said do it this way that that will work for again, it's not a blanket statement for everybody. And it's not viable for most people, because it's not something that in a busy life schedule, works with people, right? Because when I design skincare routines, I'm like, What's your life like? Like, well, how realistic is this because I don't want you to buy all these products and do this whole thing, only to do it for the first two weeks and then go completely down the wayside. And, you know, I want to try to encourage something that they can do long term. And for certain people, they're very systematic, and they have that calendar in their head and they can do it, I say all the power to you. Just make sure you're using the right products. I don't recommend over exfoliating your skin more than, again, for certain skin types once twice max, max, max, max, some people can do three, but it's not as much as people think it is. And that's why I'm not quite a fan of that version. But again, I'm sure there's plenty of people out there who have had excellent success with it. So I don't want to poopoo anybody's work, but at the same time, I just want to be realistic that it's not going to be for everybody.

Amy:33:15

Yeah, of course. What about yeah, sorry, do you have

Unknown:33:18

a favorite retinol product that you like? I was going

Amy:33:21

to ask the same thing.

Unknown:33:23

Yeah, actually, I do love the one from topology that was sensational, that when you can use every single day, Kiehl's also has a really good they're micro dose one is fantastic. May love or if they have to, they have a retinol and a retinal oops, don't want to give you the thing. So retinal is your basic has to kind of penetrate the skin and convert itself a few times so it's on the lower end but it works very very well and then they also have another one called the retinal which is a higher strength and only has to I think only has to do one or two conversions and it's ready to rock and roll so

Amy:33:56

that one like once or twice a week probably not as much

Unknown:33:59

oh no I use that daily now once you get right now to it Yeah, once you work your way up you can but I hate to do this ladies. I have a consultation to do oh my god oh my god but I would love to come on here and do

Amy:34:12

more. Yeah, let's do have to we'll have you back whenever is convenient for you because I think in the part two we want to talk about like some of these treatments we're seeing out there like Morpheus aid and micro like all the treatments you can do and also want to hear about your routine and more your favorites etc. So we'll make sure to book you so don't worry Nirvana sisters family. We're gonna get her back back. Lady,

Unknown:34:36

they come back Bye bye.

Amy:34:40

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things Well now so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 94 - A Cup Of Wellness With Founder Of Big Heart Tea Co. Lisa Govro (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 94.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Unknown: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we are here with Lisa Gauvreau, founder and CEO of big heart tea company and we are thrilled that she has joined us today to talk all about her company and her background and how her company started and the benefits of tea and how it affects our well being. So a bit about Lisa, she founded big heart Tea Company in 2012. And the company's mission is to help people feel good through healing herbs and tea. Lisa is trained in Ayurveda and combines her food medicine and culinary knowledge to create a growing line of herbal blends that taste good and make you feel that so Katie and I are drinking our big heart tea. I'm drinking the Rooibos if I'm saying that right. And Katie, what are you drinking? And I'm drinking the cup of sunshine, which is the golden tumeric and ginger and it is divine. Yeah, so we love it. And we love all the packaging. We have our little hearts hanging on our tea mugs. So I love that signature little branding moment. So anyway, welcome to the show. Lisa, thanks for being here.

Lisa: 1:35

Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, we're excited to have you. So before we get started, we'd like to take a step back from our week and talk about what brought us joy this week, big or small, what made us happy we put a little smile on our face. So Katie, I will kick it to you to talk about your nirvana of the week. Well, thanks, Amy. I was trying to think about this earlier. And it was a very small moment that just made my heart sing so much and had to do with my five year old daughter she was sick last week she had strep throat and then this week, she started feeling better. And you can kind of really see when that like the sickness goes away, and there's they start to be themselves again. And we're just in the kitchen one day and the way she just asked me for something the way she said Mama and the way you know what I'm saying? Like it was it just kind of like made my heart sing she we have an Au Pair now who is amazing because she is she's like the MPP in this house, I wouldn't be able to go back to work and do all the things I'm doing without her but the kids adore her. That's a good thing. That's a really good thing. I'd much rather have that than the opposite. But so they want to be with her a lot. And they ask for her help a lot. So when I'm around and they come to me and you know, say mama like they did when they were littler. It makes me really happy. So that was my Nirvana this week. What about you, Amy? That's cute. Well, I have one home, one from the week. And then one future one. So the one from the week is similar to yours. My little one, Jules, he's 13. You know, he's like, in the teenage years, you know, like the drama, the school, all this stuff. And he's just not as like, you know, like, not that he's not loving towards me. But you know, he's not like a little kid anymore, where he like, wants to be around me that much. So the other morning he was like, he's like, Mom, can I have my morning hug? It was so small, like, Yes, I'm like you just made my day. So that was really sweet. So that was my little smile moment of the week. But tomorrow night, I'm also going to see Seinfeld and concert and I'm super excited because I've never seen his show. So we're going with friends and during dinner and going to see a show and love Seinfeld. So super excited about that. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, Lisa.

Unknown: 3:44

Let's see, um, I have been traveling a lot lately. So just since the year started, I've been at three different shows all over the country. I'm talking about big heart. And so I've been super homesick and missing my family, my little family at home. But I called in to the team here at Big Heart just to check in on things because we just have a lot going on. And the whole production team like shout it out and said hi to me. And it like made me cry a little. I don't. I just like I just felt so like, supported and like loved from afar by our teams like working so hard here in St. Louis. While I'm out. I was thinking I was in New York at the time at a at a show and I just was feeling like overwhelmed with gratitude and thankfulness about having just such an amazing team of humans that I'm lucky to work with every day. So I think that was my Nirvana moment. That's so special. I love that all three of our moments. Were all around, you know, the people that we love in our lives. That's really sweet. That's great. All right, well, let's kick it off. I am so excited to hear about Big Heart tea, and I'm really interested in your background with Ayurveda. We have talked to somebody with that. There's an Ayurvedic specialist before, but it's such a fascinating, huge world. So tell us a little bit about your food. And I'm sorry, your food medicine and culinary journey and everything that got you to where you are today.

Lisa: 5:18

Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I'm not trained to like clinically evaluated just as a site. Like, just to put that out there. My training is more from a culinary perspective. But I got into it, I didn't even realize that is so funny. So I was studying yoga in Sedona, Arizona.

Unknown: 5:39

Yeah, same. I had just moved, I was in Seattle at the time, I'd been in Seattle for about 10 years, and just was over it like needed. So I just wanted to live someplace where it was sunny. And I moved to Sedona and I just unknowingly enrolled in this yoga teacher training program. And it ended up being absolutely life changing, it was very true and authentic. It was all HOFA a lot of lecture on sort of the esoteric parts of yoga, lots of mantra, and a lot of like our your Vedic cleanses, and the food component to the, the training was all REM Vedic and so every morning, the chef would come out, and she would talk about the medicinal benefits, or just like the health benefits are really just like the reasoning behind why you would eat your meal in a certain way. So we would always start with peeling almonds like soaked almonds, it would peel the skins off, because the skins were harder to digest. And you're just like kick starting your digestive system with your first meal of the day. And we'd always like have freshly made Chai, from fresh ingredients, also to help it's all about the gut and the digestion with that first meal. And anyway, so it was about a month long teacher training. And of course, like me, being me fell in love with the food part of the training more than anything else. So I decided to stay and I just decided to stay and live in Sedona and study under the chef. And so I did an apprenticeship. And that really got my wheels turning coming from Seattle, and just at that time it was 2012 actually was TSM 11, I believe. And health and wellness was like really sort of being held captive by the health and wellness industry like it was seemed like more exclusive sort of network and using like really like language, I feel I felt like that was like creating barriers from everyday people experiencing the healing power of herbs. And so I just started kind of playing with that idea, a little bit of like, how could we make it a little bit more accessible? How can we make it a little bit more fun? Because I originally I'm from the Midwest, where I have since moved back to St. Louis, no Midwest folks are just a little bit more conservative and trying new ideas, especially like we're talking 10 years ago, consumer consciousness has grown so much since we first started the company. But I just started testing some ideas. So I I found a little trailer. And I got it. It's a 1969 camper trailer. And I just started taking that around. And it really was just my way to like sort of like sort of like a venus flytrap in a lot of ways. Like I was attracting people with this like really cute kitschy trailer, they would come inside and then I'd pour them Tumeric tea and talk about healing the the healing power of herbs. And so it really all just started with like, as an art project more or less as a way to like, just talk simply about simple, everyday changes you could make to your lifestyle to improve your quality of health and well being. Yeah, I love that. And that's what then led you to growing your brand. Were you big Hardy at that time as well. No, so we had a name that didn't make any sense of week the name of the company was retailer because we were running out of a trailer. I don't know. That's bad. So we were retailing for about five years. And in 2017 I was sort of debating on if I was going to keep moving forward because we were so hyperlocal then and it was a struggle because the tea market nationally is pretty small. But just in our small community of St. Louis, it wasn't enough to support business or lifestyle. And so it's like man, how can we make this work? Like how could I keep doing this and that's when I just decided to kind of go all in I got a little loan from a family member to bison packaging, and we rebranded as the cart. But the first five years were pretty slow. Pretty quiet. Yeah. Very cool. And so what does direct trade t mean? This was I was reading this about the company. And I think most people probably don't know what that means. If you could explain that a little bit. That'd be great. Yeah, absolutely. So, as I mentioned, I got into the tea industry because of health and wellness and herbal healing. Over time, like we all do, I've changed. And I've learned new things about the industry about how commodities are traded. And so one of the things I learned is that herbs and tea just have a really dark and dusty history when it comes to trading and international importing, exporting. And there's a lot of mystery, a lot of questions couldn't be answered in those early days by the people I was buying herbs from, I decided I needed to like have a little bit more transparency, and the the value chain. So it was like if people are using these herbs to heal themselves, they have to come from a place of health. So rather than on a farm where workers are maybe underpaid or working longer hours working conditions, depending on what tea growing region we're talking about, we started working on our trade on our sourcing model, establish direct relationships with farmers. And that's what direct trade is. And so rather than buying our tea, or an herbs from an auction, or the marketplace, that's very like herbs or interior, and most commodities are sold traditionally at auction. And that dictates the price that the value and the price of the herbs are the tea isn't necessarily what it took to grow that it's what the customer is willing to pay. And so it oftentimes the farmer and the people at the bottom, like at the beginning of the value chain are the ones that are left, short cut short on compensation. And so when you do direct trade, we're paying the farmers what they need for the ingredient, rather than what the market pricing. And so, over market price, we also pay ahead of harvest. And so we'll put in orders, usually you're out before harvest season, and we'll pay for those upfront, they have the funds to do the work that they need to do. And so and then they're you know, we're able to have a better ear to the ground. And like what's happening with the harvest set years are a lot of rain isn't going to change the flavor profile. Because these are all like natural ingredients. So it's not natural for your tea or your herb just tastes the same year over year. And so that's that's what your trade means to us. It's just a way to have a relationship and have a direct line of communication to the people who are doing the hard work on the ground level. That's great. Yeah, let's get into the the organic certified organic herbs that you use and their healing benefits and why I know our listener is going to love your tea for so many reasons. And tell us a bit about the magic of the tea. Why isn't why are they so good? Well, like let's just take it one blend at a time. So our signature blend is the cup of sunshine, which you're drinking right now is tumeric, ginger, peppercorns, cinnamon and Tulsi. So every single ingredient in that tea is anti inflammatory. And it's really great for gut health and digestion. It's energizing, it's naturally energizing. There's no caffeine in the herbs, of course, but because they're so full of like healing power, like Tumeric has a ton of curcumin, which is just like curcumin just has like a that's what lends to the anti inflammatory aspects of tumeric. That's what gives us beautiful golden orange color. And makes it so energizing. And so and just hydrating. I mean tea is 99% water. And so for folks that are constantly trying to figure out how they can get that mandatory or whatever water intake that they need on a daily basis. Tea is a great option for that as well. But I mean, at the end of the day, it's a warm cup of love, like it just is the most nurturing thing you can do for yourself. Making a cup of tea is sort of meditative and a lot of ways because it's not instant. You have to heat your water and then you have to steep your tea and you have to wait. And then just like holding a warm cup of tea is is just so comforting. And so Oh, I mean, there's so many ways in which tea is good for you. I mean, just at a very basic level, it just can literally warm you from the inside out. Yeah, it's so true. I tried your Alright, so tell us how to say it correctly, ROI, ROI boosts ROI boosts. Roi goes and so I actually my pair that I mentioned earlier, she's from South Africa and she was the first person to introduce me to Roy Bose T. And I became obsessed with it. And then I found out we have a new on and use of yours and it's so good. I love it. I drink it every night. It helps me fall asleep. It helps me another really cool thing about I was kind of like digging into my own research and I read that it shuts off your IT HELPS shut down your hunger hormone, which and so like when you wake up in the morning, you're not as hungry maybe so like, for me, you know, like hormonal hunger happens all the time. I'm always hungry. So it's, I love the ribose love and you're drinking it right now. Me Right? Yeah, it's very good. It's very good. I'm definitely like, go in and out of drinking tea. Because I drink a lot of coffee. But I do every time I do have tea. I'm always like, why don't I drink this more? It's so good. Especially drinking this one. I love it. And I agree it does have that ritual feeling. And it is a good way to get water. I never thought about it that way. Because it's most a lot of your teas. It seems like our caffeine free so you can drink it throughout the day with no problem, which is great. You were talking about the preparation of tea and you sell the tea that we're drinking, which is in which are in the sachets, but I know you also sell loose tea, and never know how to make that. So for someone like me who's new to tea drinking to questions like hey, how do you make it and be like, what's the difference between the loose and the kind in the sachet? Yeah, absolutely. Well, loose tea is well, okay, so I have a lot of chips on my shoulder, right, like so I'm like health and wellness industry. And then there's like the specialty coffee industry that like has taught us that we need to have a piece of equipment to do a thing to brew something as simple as coffee or tea. And I do not subscribe to that I think we people have been drinking tea for generations and generations without having fancy bells and whistles. We tend to overcomplicate things anyway. So like, all you really need to make a good cup of loose tea is maybe a mason jar, and a wire mesh strainer. And in many cultures, they don't even have a strainer, they're just using their upper lip to like strain the tea. So it depends on how hard you are. But really, I mean, it could be as basic is that so you would sip your tea in your mason jar, strain it through a wire mesh strainer, and bam, there you go. The difference between the tea bag and like making it loose is generally the amount of space and room that the tea has to expand in the cup. Because essential oils are medicine, but they're also flavor. And that's what's were released when you're adding hot water to this organic substance. And so a tea bag can oftentimes be limiting and like how much flavor and how much medicine you're going to get. Because they're packing so much dry ingredient into this tiny little tea. And so we designed our tea bags extra bag so that the tea could expand and release all of its flavor. So it's kind of like as close to having a loose tea drinking experience you can have without the mess. So I like that and you also your product is 100% plastic free as well, which I found interesting. And I I did see something the other day that the tea cup tea companies that use plastics that can leach into your tea is that I assume that's the motivation behind it right? Yeah, well, there's a couple of motivations one, we're like avid about sustainability here. We reuse as much as we can. And we're always trying to reduce our carbon footprint and the amount of waste that we're putting out into the environment. Like we're moms here too. So we're just trying to create a company that we could sleep at night with. And so because of that we don't use any plastic in our packaging. Definitely our tea bags, so we don't use plastic in our packaging because we don't want to fill landfills with trash. We don't use plastic in our tea bags because it does have that potential to leach micro plastics and and plus it's just like the idea of having a nylon tea bag which is made from plastic. It just kind of in your pouring hot water on it. I mean, it just doesn't really make a ton of sense to us here. So our tea bags are made from non GMO sugarcane. We recently upgraded we weren't they were made from a corn product and we updated upgraded to a non GMO product and so we're even more proud of our tea bags now. But yeah, I just think there's been a lot of awareness and companies maybe portraying, or sustainability or more transparency. And we're actually, you know, showing that there's a reason why like these simple values of like doing the right thing in business are important for us to talk about because other people aren't doing it. So if they're not talking about their packaging, being plastic free, you're right to assume that there's a good deal of some sort of plastic happening in there. Yeah, and it's also really important to the younger generation, I think they are picking brands and you know, everything from food to beauty, etc, that are sustainable, that are doing the right thing for the environment. It's it's, it's impactful that you're doing that and notice that gap. You don't really hear it about a lot to your point around like coffee and tea brands doing that. So I noticed you have this good for you collection, which looks like it's a bunch of different teas that have what some have adaptogen some have anti inflammatory ingredients, which we talked about before calming and digestive effects I wanted to hear about gut health and tea I you sort of mentioned it before, but what ingredients are good for that and which teas you have for that specific condition when we first started so like we use Tulsi as the base of almost all of our teas, Tulsi and India and our Veda is known as holy basil are the queen of herbs. It's a sacred herb. It's a powerful healer. It's also an adaptogen, which is this like super sexy buzzword in health and wellness right now. We shied away from using the word adaptogen until probably about three years ago, when it started to become a little bit more common and consumer consciousness and vocabulary. Now I feel like most people have a general idea of what adaptogens are. But the good for you collection, it's just a way to sort of like highlight a couple health benefits of a few of our teas, so that we can give the drinker sort of a next level interaction with what they're drinking because like as you get our packaging, we don't make health claims on on our packaging. We don't even make health claims on the product page. And there's a reason for that. Mostly because of the FDA but also because we don't want to like confuse people or mislead people into like thinking that we're cure for anything. Like the good for you collection that we have for gut health and digestion. I mean, are you talking about kappa sunshine, but basically anything that's spicy, that's gonna like kick heart kickstart that digestive fire. So and I made it we talk about like the Agni or like the digestive fire, whatever it's like the energy that's helping you digest and process food, thoughts, emotions, like all of those things happen in the gut. And so another one that would be really good for I know you were saying that you're a big coffee drinker, we have our fake coffee. So coffee, like the coffee bean is amazing. It has caffeine, it's like got this beautiful, robust, rich flavor. But it also has a lot of acidity and can be really hard on your digestive track. And so we have a tea that we've blended called fake coffee, which is cherry cacao dandelion root and cinnamon. And not only does that coffee alternative have no acidity and no caffeine so it's easy in the digestive track. It also isn't blended with gluten. Gluten is like really common for coffee alternatives using barley as a blend in the blend for coffee alternative and we are an allergen free facility. So we don't use barley, we don't bring any gluten and anywhere near our facility. And so that's like another tea that's really great for the gut health generally, and like tea drinkers will tell you this an herbalist will tell you this, but like the little particulates that you get at the bottom of your tea cup, just that little dusting that like slips through the mesh of the bag, that is amazing food for your gut bacteria. And it's just like a nice little easy way to just sort of nourish all of the healthy bacteria that you have going on that's helping you process your stuff. I use your lavender mint I love for peppermint. I love that for when my stomach if I need to settle my stomach a little bit. So your lavender Mint is really nice, especially in the evenings as well because of the lavender and the relaxing properties behind it. What is the name of that one? That's our royal treat. Yeah. And we actually blended that tea for adaptogenic health. So each tea is blended for a certain thing. We have a certain thing in mind. In fact, we aligned our original T's to the the chakra system. And so that's something that We could go in totally different podcast and talk about that one that royal treatment was blended for, to help our little poor adrenal system sort of repair and restore. So yeah, it's great. I love it. Well, I want to know, what are your favorites out of your collections and it for someone that's new to tea, where would like what's a good starter kit or, you know, the best one to go for? Yeah, so my, I mean, our number one best selling tea, the first tea I ever blended, the only tea we sold for the first year of business is our cup of sunshine. And that's my go to still to this day, I was just on a business trip. And I drink like, probably four cups of tea that at night, just trying to relax. Just a really nice balance of tumeric and ginger, and it has told CNN, which Tulsi is my very favorite herb. And then my second favorite would be a cup of love, like another original from the collection. It's just two ingredients, is RoHS and Tulsi I say it's just like a hug from your grandma. I love that one at the end of the day with a big big spoon of honey and some milk and sugar. So, so nourishing, nurturing sounds so good. I love tolsey too. I'm definitely gonna try those ones later. So many good ones to try. And I love all the names of your teas. Like, just as a side note, I love all the packaging and the branding and the names because they're so like fun and upbeat. And I think tea feels sometimes to people like it's serious and like, you know, very, I don't know, sophisticated or something. There's no like fun kind of brands. So that was one of the things that we were really attracted to that it's like you're not taking yourself so seriously. And it's just like this great tea but with fun, bright packaging and cute names. So yeah, it's beautiful. The packaging is so great. It's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, it's just very vibrant and nice. So kudos, kudos. taglines is that we don't take ourselves too seriously. But we mean serious. So pretty and intentionality wrapped up in that like cute, funny, funky little package. But yeah, that was Thank you know, and I like I like that part at the ends. And it says you are awesome, which is super cute. Okay. That's just, it's just like a fun little surprise. So yeah, so yeah, we love it. So where can people buy this fabulous tea? Yeah, well, that's a great question. So the best place to buy it is on our website. So just calm. Otherwise, like your local independent specialty retailer on your main street. And we sell a lot a lot to mom and pops, gift retailers, and so much we don't have like a comprehensive list on our site. But if you if you are looking to find it someplace locally, just give us a call or an email and we'll we'll look, we'll look in our five different places where we keep that information and find it for you think just buying online is the best place right now or Amazon. Yeah. Okay. So on Amazon. Yeah, I was gonna say it's, um, it's a great gift. Because obviously the cheese, delicious, but the packaging is cute. It's just like a really nice gift to bring someone if you're going to their house for the first time or you know, something like that. So, and we are very grateful and appreciative of you because big heart T is going to offer our listeners 20% promotion. So listeners use big heart t 20. And get your big heart t as soon as possible because it's fantastic. And we love it. Yes. Thank you for that. That's exciting. All right. So let's get into our rap session. Lisa, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Yes, I started doing this a few years ago, actually a long time ago. Like before, when I was like getting ready for a job interview or something like that. I would force myself to smile for five minutes. Before I would go into an interview or into like sort of a situation where I had a lot of anxiety or stress. And there's something that happens to your brain. When you force yourself to smile. It has to be like five minutes or more like it can't just be like a little bit. Like it has to be like uncomfortable like psycho smile. And I do it when I'm driving. I do it in the morning. And it really like it really puts me in a better mood just like just having a smile on my face. And then after what after a while I'm just authentically naturally smiling. And it's one way that I sort of like trick my brain into like taking me to a different state of mind. That's so cool. I've never heard that before. I need to try it. Yeah, it's funny because I have done something kind of like that where like you know how they say smiles are infectious. So you just like, if I'm ever like in a funk, I just I'll smile but I don't do like the whole five minute thing to try to like you know, shake me out of my phone. kind of thing. So it's true. It does work. It's really That's great. Yeah, I like that idea of zooming in in the car before you get to work. That's a great idea. Okay, the next one we call our five minute flow. So you just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you. There are five minutes away. What is your quick beauty routine? Like? What are your go twos? What do you put on to get the car on time? Yeah, well, I mean, there's just a few things that I do. One, I have a rose water spray that I have to spray on my face, like I don't feel like I'm awake until like, I get that. And another thing I like to do is an iron rents. So I have this little iron Cup, where you like, put a little bit of water in it, and then you dip your put, like, throw your head back, and then you blink your eyes in the water. That's a really great way to get those like bright refresh dyes. It's something that we learned when I was doing my area of Vedic training. Just like a nice little I cleanse just was fresh, cold water, but you know, throw on a little mascara and a big heart t hat. And then I'm ready to try that. And then how do you maintain your daily nirvana? Well, gratitude. I'm really big into gratitude. Sometimes I call it procrastination meditation. Like if I don't want to get out of bed in the morning, I'll just lay there and send love and gratitude out. And also, don't forget to be like thankful to yourself for all of the hard work that you're doing every day. And all the things that you're doing that nobody sees that you see. But yeah, I think I think that is the number one thing that I practice every day, and I practice it with my family. My daughter hates it, she doesn't hate it. But one day, she'll love it just sending out love and appreciation to everyone that you can think of. I love that you said, Yeah, and it's so true. And it just puts everything into a positive perspective and fills you with positive light. And it's like Bruce shared that you said that because our closing mantra today happens to be about gratitude. And we'd like to close the show with a little reminder, affirmation mantra, call it whatever you will. But before we say goodbye to you, I'll wrap with this. Gratitude helps you see what is there instead of what isn't. Hmm, that's our wrap for today. So Lisa, thank you so much for being with us. We It was great to meet you. And we love big party. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me and I couldn't have been more perfect. So thank you and thank you for the code. We'll make sure to put it in our show notes for all of our listeners. Definitely. Yes. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 93 - How To Get To Sleep And Stay Asleep With Board Certified Physician Dr. Holliday-Bell, The Sleep MD (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 93.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of wellbeing and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome back to the show nirvana Sisters Family. It is Amy and Katie. And today we are sitting down with Dr. Angela Holiday Bell. Dr. Holiday Bell is a board certified physician certified sleep specialist, speaker, and founder of the Solution Is Sleep, LLC. As someone who formally suffered from insomnia herself, she understands the transformative power of good quality sleep and how obtaining this regularly can lead to happier, healthier, and more productive life. She's been featured on local and international television shows and networks such as The Dr. Phil Show, ABC News, and WGN Television, spreading her message about the power of good sleep. She also sits on the advisory board of Health Magazine and regularly contributes to a number of print and online publications such as the Sleep Foundation, women's Health Magazine, well and Good, and Today Show. She also helps overwhelmed workers beat, burnout, and build resilience while increasing productivity and engagement through better sleep. So we are so incredibly excited to have you here because sleep is everything, if you ask me. So welcome to the show, dr. Holiday Bell.

[01:32] Dr. Holliday Bell : Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Thank you guys so much for having me.

[01:36] Katie Chandler: Yeah, we're excited.

[01:37] Amy Sherman: Yes, welcome.

[01:37] Katie Chandler: Well, let's kick it off.

[01:38] Amy Sherman: I always tell my kids, sleep is medicine.

[01:41] Dr. Holliday Bell : 100%. Good night.

[01:43] Katie Chandler: That's the truth. We like to get started with a Nirvana of the Week. Just a moment that brought you a little bit of joy this week. So, Amy, let's start with you. What was your nirvana this week?

[01:55] Amy Sherman: Well, let's see. This week was a super busy week, and I think my nirvana this week was kind of a series of things. I just got a lot done and I was very productive this week. And I feel like every time I'm productive, it makes me feel better and I just feel accomplished and really good. And so I just got a lot of things off my list and a lot of projects done work wise and otherwise. So I was just feeling really motivated this week. What about you, Katie?

[02:20] Katie Chandler: Thanks. Mine, I think, is today, this weather. I am in New England, and it is typically very cold in February, and we have a 50 degree day. The sun is high in the sky and shining, and I can feel the vitamin D coming into my system. I've got the happiness joy of the vitamin D hitting me today, so I think that would be mine. What about you, Dr. Holiday Bell.

[02:46] Dr. Holliday Bell : I got to spend some time with my family, my parents this week, and I'm always so busy and on the go that I don't often get that time. So it was really nice to just take a second to sit back and enjoy some time with them.

[02:58] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that sounds great. That's always the absolute best. Great. All right, well, let's start out I don't know. I have a million questions, but I'll try to keep it reeled in. So to start out, let's hit some basics, right? How much sleep should we all be getting every night? Is there like a certain time? Should we all go to sleep at a certain time and wake up at a certain time? What's the 101 there?

[03:24] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, that's a great question and one I get opt in. And I always like to say sleep need is variable for every individual. So sleep need is like shoe size. There's no one size fits all. So most of us have heard that you need seven to 8 hours. That's very much an average. Some people need six. Very few people need six, but some people need six up to 10 hours. And so it's important to determine what that sleep need is for you and then aim to get that. So mine is 9 hours. I know that I need a solid 9 hours to feel rested. 7 hours, I'm exhausted. So it's important to know what that number is for you and aim for that every night.

[03:59] Katie Chandler: And do you suggest I've read before that it's good to go to sleep around the same time, have a similar sleep pattern, start falling asleep same time, waking up the same time as much as you can. And why is that beneficial? If it is?

[04:14] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yes, it's 100% beneficial. And that's because your circadian rhythm, which is the roughly 24 hours cycle that dictates many functions of your day to day life. But sleep is a big one, thrives on regularity and schedule. So the more that you keep your schedule consistent and honestly, waking at the same time is even more important than going to sleep at the same time. The more you keep that consistent, the more you entrain your circadian rhythm. Or teach your circadian rhythm to start giving you alerting signals at the time that you want it to be so at the same time each morning and then giving you signals to fall asleep at the same time each night. So it really makes it easier to fall asleep and wake up when you are keeping your schedule consistent.

[04:56] Katie Chandler: Is that same time 06:00 A.m. On the dot, or do I have a window? Let's say an hour or two wiggle room?

[05:04] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, it's best to keep it literally as consistent as possible. So we in the sleep world will say, just set an alarm Monday through Sunday and have it be that same time. But to be fair and to be honest, there is a little bit of wiggle room. 30 minutes is probably the longest. I will push it sometimes up to an hour, just depending on how it interferes with their sleep. Everyone is a little bit different with how much that may throw off their schedule, but keeping it as consistent as possible, even my down to the minute will be the best course of action.

[05:35] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I was going to just make a comment that that totally makes sense because on the weekends, because I'm not a morning person, I've become a morning person, obviously with kids and my husband's an early riser, so I've become a morning person. But on the weekends, I try to sometimes sleep late. And everyday time I do, I feel terrible that day I'm like more tired, lethargic. And I always said my husband, I'm like, it's so weird, it's because I got up late, but if I get up the same time every day, like I usually get up at seven during the week, I feel a million times better.

[06:02] Dr. Holliday Bell : Exactly. And that is your body telling you like, no, we need to keep this consistency. It screaming for that. Even down to meal times at the time you exercise. Like your circadian rhythm actually controls many different functions in your body and really likes to keep it as routine, consistent as possible.

[06:15] Katie Chandler: Sounds interesting. Okay. All right, so we've all heard melatonin, melatonin, melatonin. For a long time I just thought melatonin was a pill that I took. But melatonin is something we make, is that correct? What is melatonin? What is the science behind it, what triggers it, what inhibits it, et cetera.

[06:36] Dr. Holliday Bell : Definitely. So melatonin is a natural hormone that we produce in our bodies from the pineal gland in your brain. There's also some research findings to come out showing that a lot of meatonin is producing your gut. But the melatonin we think of that signals sleep is producing your brain, so we produce that naturally. It does also come in supplement form, and I like to think of melatonin as the hormone of darkness. So as let's say before, we had all the artificial lights that were keeping us up and awake at night, your circadian rhythm and the hormones that were released were regulated in large part by the light and dark cycles that naturally occur in the natural environment. So as the sun went down and you didn't have any more light to alert yourself, that's when that signified melatonin to be released. And melatonin helps to set the stage for sleep, so it signals to your body, okay, it's time to wind down, it's time to transition into sleep and then allows you to make that transition easier. Light is going to be the strongest thing that inhibits that. So as we're spending a lot more time in artificial light, and even if you're spending time outside, let's say on a late summer day when the sun is still out, that's going to be signaling to your body that it's time to be awake and be alert. Because there is light outside, so it inhibits the release of melatonin. So the way that I tell people to utilize their own natural melatonin release is by decreasing the light emissions about 2 hours before bedtime as much as possible. So for some people, if you have to use if you have to be on your computer during that time, using light blue, light blocking glasses, simply, if you have dimmers in your house, dimming the lights, turning off overhead lights and using instead table lamps or candles. All of those things help to decrease the alerting signals from the light and signal to your brain that it's time to start releasing that melatonin.

[08:27] Amy Sherman: So I guess that means you shouldn't have a TV on in your bedroom.

[08:31] Dr. Holliday Bell : Exactly. That is why we say limited electronics, because light is made up of a lot of different wavelengths. But the blue wavelength in particular is the strongest inhibitor of melatonin and that is the more prominent wavelength that's in electronics like your television, your tablet, your phone, et cetera. So it's best not to look at those things close to bedtime because you're going to be inhibiting that melatonin release or at least use something to block out the blue wavelength so it's not so strongly inhibiting melatonin.

[09:03] Amy Sherman: It's funny, we sometimes watch TV at night, but I fall asleep. So then I'm like, well, does it matter because I'm still falling asleep.

[09:12] Dr. Holliday Bell : That's actually a good point. So I like to say, generally speaking, some people can literally sleep anywhere, anytime, no matter what their schedules are, what they're doing. Yeah, that's an accident outside and they're fast asleep. Praise. I'm so happy for you guys. I wish I had that ability. If you do, then you don't really need to change things up that much, right? Because it's working for you. There are differences in sleep reactivity, we call it. So I have a very high sleep reactivity. My environment really interferes with my sleep. Stress, anxiety, all those things interfere significantly. My husband has a very low sleep reactivity. We could literally be getting robbed and he'll be passed out. And I'm like, how are you sleeping through this? So every person is different. But I would say for many people, and especially now, that a lot of these things like electronics are more pervasive in our society. They are starting to see those effects. And so if you're one of those people that have problems sleeping, then try to look at those things close to the time.

[10:10] Amy Sherman: My husband is like you in that he is literally the worst, worst, worst sleeper. And so this episode can be very helpful for him to listen to as well because he just really is rough and so is his mom. So it's the runs of the family, I guess.

[10:25] Dr. Holliday Bell : For sure.

[10:26] Katie Chandler: Absolutely. Yeah. I am more like you are Dr. Holiday Bill in that I have to have kind of like a bedtime ritual. I have to shut the lights, need to go down, I have to do the whole thing one to 2 hours before I want to be asleep. And if I can't, I am inevitably up later and my sleep is disrupted. So last Wednesday we went on a random couple's night, which we never do during the week. And I didn't get home in my bed until 10:00, I didn't full sleep until midnight. So it's like part of the routine and I guess it's all triggering that melatonin. So when we take melatonin as a supplement, we're really just trying to replace the lack of what we're making or not making, essentially.

[11:13] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, essentially or augmented. Like the amount of melatonin we take in supplements is significantly more than what's produced by our pioneer gland, by our brains. And so there are thoughts about whether or not we need that much. We actually often take away more than we need to trigger sleep, but it helps to just augment that process to help us accrete more so that it's moving our body towards preparation for sleep sooner than our natural release.

[11:38] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[11:39] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it's funny, even though I am a good sleeper, I do find that when we do do more of a wind routine and dinner lights and all that stuff, I do sleep more soundly and better and I don't get up in the middle of the night.

[11:51] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I'm sure. And Adam, Amy's my sister in law, so my husband is her brother. He sleeps like Amy sleeps. He sleeps like a rock. He could sleep through anything too. You guys have the good genes. So, some tips for falling asleep quickly. Do you have anything particularly that our listeners would like for that?

[12:13] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, so I think establishing a bedtime routine just like you guys both mentioned and alluded to is so important because right now we live in such busy time. We all just talk about how busy we are. We are talking about our nirvana moments and we're working and we may be parents or taking care of spouses and doing all these things and our brains are going constantly. And then many of us treat sleep like it's a light switch, so we just turn off. I'm like, okay, you can go to sleep. And again, there are those amazing, incredible superhumans that can do that, but for the most part we can't. And so your brain needs that time to wind down and transition to sleep more than just even the melatonin release. Like one of my colleagues like to say, brain waves have to slow down in order for sleep to happen. And that's very, very true. And so you're giving yourself and your brain that time to slow down. So just implementing a consistent bedtime routine will help you to fall asleep faster than if you all of a sudden try to go to sleep in the year in bed, tossing and turning and not able to do so. And then having a relaxation technique that you can engage in either regularly or after a particularly stressful day is super important. And what I mean by that is not just like okay, I'm sitting down and I'm relaxing. There are actually techniques you can do that trigger your brain to slow your heart rate, slow your breathing rate, lower your blood pressure, and signal to your brain that okay. Or signal to your body, okay. We are actually relaxed, and now we can fall asleep because whether we know it or not, when we're stressed or we're anxious and brain waves are going quickly, we start to breathe quicker, we take more shallow breaths. We do all these things that trigger to us that, oh, there is a reason that we need to be alert. And so by triggering the opposite of that, you tell your brain, there's no reason that we need to be alert. Now we can relax and now it's safe to go to sleep.

[13:54] Amy Sherman: Okay, so what are some of those things? Like breathing exercises?

[13:59] Dr. Holliday Bell : Exactly. Breathing exercises. Diaphragmatic breathing is one of my favorites because you can do that anywhere. It's easy to practice, it's an easy technique for most people to grasp, and it literally is just practicing taking deep breaths. As I mentioned, we naturally breathe more shallowly and so it doesn't allow our lungs to feel completely and it doesn't trigger that parasympathetic nervous system or the one that slows everything down. So it's literally focusing and anchoring our breath so that we're breathing more deeply to trigger our bodies and our brains to say, oh, we must be relaxed because we're able to take these deep breaths. And that triggers a relaxation response, something like progressive muscle relaxation where you literally go through every part of your body and focus on tensing and relaxing each muscle in a specific way, in a specific fashion that allows you to sense when you are tense and then to manually relax yourself is also helpful. Guided meditation. Like, I always recommend trying different ones. See what works well for you. Practice during the day when the stakes are not so high and you're trying to fall asleep, and then incorporate that into a bedtime routine.

[15:05] Katie Chandler: Oh, that's smart. Yeah, I've never thought about trying it that way.

[15:10] Amy Sherman: Yeah, go ahead.

[15:13] Dr. Holliday Bell : I say some people try like, oh, I tried that last night and it didn't work and I couldn't fall asleep. And that's because you're anxious and frustrated and trying to fall asleep.

[15:21] Katie Chandler: Hey.

[15:23] Dr. Holliday Bell : That'S not going to work. But if you practice it during the day when there's nothing on the line, it's not high stakes. You're just teaching yourself how to trigger that, then you're going to be more effective at doing it at night. So I always say practice it just ten minutes during the day and you get better at it, and then you can incorporate it at night.

[15:39] Amy Sherman: Yeah, that's a great idea. Really smart. So what would you say for people and I have this a lot, and so does my husband, where you get up in the middle of the night to have a bathroom or whatever, and then you can't fall back asleep because your mind starts racing.

[15:52] Dr. Holliday Bell : So common, they'll call it the 03:00 A.m. Syndrome because for some reason it's like around 03:00 A.m. For you, so right, yeah. But you get up and so there are a couple of factors there. The first thing is your sleep drive. There's actually, like we call it processes. So your drive to sleep decreases the more you sleep. Makes sense, right? And so the closer you get to morning, the more you've slept off that sleep drive. So that drive to sleep is decreasing. And then we're getting closer to the morning hours where you're alerting factors from your circadian rhythm will start to pick up. So it makes sense that it's going to be harder to stay asleep at that time, especially if you have a reason you woke up, like going to the bathroom and so on. And then you start ruminating on thoughts and things like that that make it even more difficult to fall asleep. So I first like to start by telling people that waking up in the middle of the night is not a problem. That in and of itself is normal. You're human, you're going to wake up in the middle of the night. We actually wake up several times as we transition through sleep cycles because some people start to focus too much on that for oh, I'm waking up, that's fine. The problem is not being able to fall back asleep. So a normal sleep latency or time it takes to fall asleep, either at the beginning or the middle of the night, is actually up to 20 minutes. It takes you to all in a fall asleep. Fine. Try to do your deep breathing, try to do some relaxing activity until you fall asleep. But if you are not falling asleep after that 20 minutes, the the recommendation is actually to get up and out of your bed and do a relaxing activity like reading a book, meditation, something like that, until you fall back asleep. The reason for this is for individuals who say every night at 03:00 A.m., I wake up, I get in bed, I can't fall asleep, I'm tossing and turning for 2 hours and it's five and I finally fall back asleep. Then my alarm goes off. You're teaching your brain that that's what we do at 03:00 A.m. In the bed is that we wake up, we toss and turn, we're frustrated, we're anxious, and we can't fall asleep. And that entrance your brain, that that is what you do. You start to connect those thoughts, those feelings, those emotions with being in the bed rather than sleep. So you want to break that cycle by getting out of your bed, doing something else to induce sleepiness, and then getting back in bed only when you're sleepy again. That helps to reestablish that relationship and makes it less likely that you'll be up for the same amount of time and subsequent wow.

[17:59] Katie Chandler: Haste. Ever tried that? Amy, her husband is notorious for waking in the middle of the night, not being able to fall back asleep.

[18:06] Amy Sherman: I don't know, I have to ask him. I know sometimes he's like, gone downstairs, got something to eat or something like.

[18:14] Katie Chandler: That, and he's gone back to sleep.

[18:15] Amy Sherman: But yeah, he's done it all. Who knows? But that's a good idea to just get out of the bed and stop tossing and turning.

[18:23] Dr. Holliday Bell : The key is not to engage in other stimulating activities. So some people are like, okay, I'm going to be on my phone or I'm going to watch some Netflix shows. All that is doing it further waking you up, stimulating you, or even eating, because then that teaches your body again, this is when we eat. So then what happens is your digestive hormone starts to release at around 03:00 A.m. Because now it learns, oh, I'm preparing for a meal because at 03:00 A.m., we eat. So it's very important to choose specific activities that are going to be conducive to filling sleep again, rather than stimulating or signal that you should be doing something else interesting.

[18:55] Katie Chandler: All right, so I have a question related to sleep and our metabolism and our weight and everything. I notice that when I am able to get consistent more longer sleep, I just naturally shut down without even trying almost. And when my schedule is more especially, like, maybe during the school year, I have to be up by 06:00 A.m. To get the kids to school and whatnot. It's not as easy. It just seems to be a pattern. I feel like I'm not burning as much at night sometimes as maybe I once did. What's that all about?

[19:31] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah. So you are absolutely right in what you're feeling in that sleep is a huge regulator of your metabolism. And for anyone who's on any type of fitness journey, I say one of the best things you can do, it's exercise, nutrition, sleep. It's right at the same level. And the reason for that is that your hormonal regulation occurs via sleep. So the hormone that makes you feel hungry, grelin, is actually secreted in larger quantities when you are not sleeping well or you don't get sufficient sleep. And the hormone leptin that makes you feel full is secreted in lower quantities. Your metabolism actually slows down when you're not getting sufficient sleep, and you're less likely to move or burn calories when you're awake when you're not getting sufficient sleep. So it's actually the perfect setup for you to gain weight. And that is why insufficient sleep leads to obesity is independent risk factor for obesity is insufficient sleep. So it's super important from that standpoint to make sure whether you're going to finish your not that you're getting adequate sleep because your body actually almost works to gain weight when you're not getting enough sleep.

[20:37] Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's wild that it regulates all of that. I do notice that when I don't get a good night's sleep, I want to nosh all day long, I'm hungry.

[20:48] Amy Sherman: Totally.

[20:48] Katie Chandler: And I always thought, oh, I'm reaching for this, for the energy that my body is missing. But meanwhile, it's a hormonal thing that's really interesting.

[20:57] Dr. Holliday Bell : Exactly. And you're just more likely to make poorer food choices. So when you're asleep deprived, you're less likely to grab that valid you're more likely to grab that donut because it's about the immediate satisfaction of that. Your rational mind and your frontal lobe are less active when you're not getting enough sleep. So you're less likely to think through the benefits of the salad versus the donut. You just want the donut. And so all those things lead to poor weight gain and then poor metabolic.

[21:23] Katie Chandler: And does the quality of sleep matter? I know REM sleep, right? So let's touch on that really quickly. What is REM sleep and why is it so important? How do we achieve it?

[21:35] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, it's so funny. There's been a lot of focus on REM sleep lately. And REM sleep is important, but so are all the other stages, I like to say so there are four main stages of sleep you have in one sleep, but you're super light. Like as you're kind of drifting off, you may not even know you're sleeping. That stage into sleep is a little bit deeper, but not the deep sleep. In three is deep sleep, which is actually that restorative sleep that we say in three. Deep sleep is restorative for their body, REM sleep is restorative for the brain. It's not that clear cut, but that's just kind of the way we think of it. And then REM sleep is a sleep that most of not all, but most of your dreaming occurs in. And your emotional regulation, your memories are laid down in that stage. So it's very resorted for the brain. But all of those stages are important and you cycle through them throughout the night. So I've had people ask, well, how do I get more REM sleep? And the answer is to get more sleep. You just need to get more sleep. And your body will give you the amount of those stages that you need with the caveat that if you're not getting enough sleep in general, your body will try to make up for a certain amount that it's missing. So you are likely to have more rim catch up, what we call a rim rebound sleep when you're catching up from not getting enough sleep. But if you're sleeping well, you spend about 20% of your time in the deep sleep, 25% of your time, and REM the other amount in the lighter stages. Now, there are medications and alcohol can interfere with REM sleep, so that can make you have less sleep. So for medications, you speak to your doctor about it sometimes benefits outweigh the risks of that. And then you don't want to drink alcohol too close to bedtime or it's just full of sleep in general. But other than that, there's not a big way to target, okay, I want more REM sleep tonight, more deep sleep, just get more sleep and then your body will regulate how much of each of those stages you get.

[23:24] Amy Sherman: Okay, yeah, exactly. It's not like when you're working out at the gym and you're like, today I want to focus on my arms. It's like your body is going to do it for you as long as you're sleeping. I had a question about jet lag and how, if you're traveling, can you regulate your sleep? Any tips on that?

[23:44] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, definitely. So jet lag is a time when melatonin actually plays a big factor, supplemental melatonin, because your circadian rhythm is thrown off from when it would naturally produce melatonin, which is really what causes the jet lag. The first thing I recommend is trying to travel overnight in general. Like if you can travel overnight and get to the next place in the daytime and sleep on the plane, that's a good way to kind of slowly get your body into the next time zone. The other thing actually, even before that is adjusting to the time zone even before you leave. So if you are going somewhere in which your sleep time will be later than your current sleep time, actually adjusting by about 20 minutes each night prior to leaving will help to slowly get your body used to it because it takes about a day, we say, for each hour time zone difference for your body to adjust. So if you can slowly do that, it makes that happen faster. The other thing is light. Light is so important. Like I said, it's a strong factor in regulating the circadian rhythm and inhibiting melatonin release. So if you get somewhere in what would be your native nighttime, but it's daytime in that place, you need to be out in the sun, out in the day, get natural light because that sends alerting signals to your circadian rhythm. Say, oh, actually it's not night, it's daytime, you need to be awake. And then as it gets closer to nighttime, take melatonin. So that because it's unlikely for your natural melatonin release to occur because it's not used to being released at that time. But you take melatonin to signify to your body that it is night time. It's the darkness here and that helps to transition things.

[25:19] Amy Sherman: Those are great things.

[25:20] Katie Chandler: Absolutely. I know it can be such a crusher. So let's talk about some sleep disorders. I know of sleep apnea, but are there others? What are they? And how would someone know that they're suffering from them?

[25:37] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, so as you mentioned, sleep apnea is probably the biggest one and can have some really significant consequences for health down the line. So that's always one that I recommend getting checked for if you're concerned. So if you're snoring every night, if you are taking. Processing your breathing, waking up, gasping for air, waking up with sporting headaches. Definitely recommend getting assessed for sleep apnea. Another fairly common one, and I think way more common than we even know is something called restless leg syndrome. And that is when you have this urge to move your legs. But really it can be any part of your body, mostly the legs, but it can actually be the arms as it gets later into the night. And it makes it difficult to fall asleep and to get good quality sleep because as you're going throughout the sleep stages, you have this urge to move and it kind of alerts you before you can get into the deeper stages and so it causes poor quality sleep. Well, one common cause of that is iron deficiency. So it's actually one that we oftentimes can manage and actually have a treatment for. So the problem is a lot of people don't know so they are not like oh, I have this urge to move my legs before I go to sleep and then they don't know that that is a thing. So education is key and it's also why I tell people if you're having problems sleeping, talk to your provider about it. People treat sleep issues as if they're just doomed to have them forever and there's nothing you can do about them. But sleep is so important, integral to health. Like if you broke your leg you were just like oh, guess my leg is broken, nothing I can do about that. You would go to the doctor, you would get it. Same thing for sleep because there's things that you may not know to be assessed for. So bring it up. Similar to restless sex syndrome, there's something called periodic limb movement disorder. It's similar in that it's movements that disrupt the quality of sleep but it doesn't interfere with the ability to fall asleep. Generally it happens like while you're sleeping you're not necessarily aware of it. You just know that no matter how much sleep I get, I'm not getting quality sleep, I'm exhausted all the time. And then you get a sleep study to diagnose any one of those things. So that's where you go to a sleep laboratory. They hook you up to these things, you sleep there. Now they actually have at home test that you can do for some as well and then they assess your movements, your breathing, your oxygen level while you're sleeping and then determine whether you have any of those things. I would say those three are the most common.

[27:51] Katie Chandler: Actually. This past summer I want to say I was diagnosed with sleep apnea but it was strange because it took me maybe six months to realize what was happening because it was like low lying. So I was shocked when I realized that that's what it was because I would wake up a lot but I wasn't waking up and bright eyed. It's that kind of thing where you wake up and you sometimes you open your eyes, sometimes you don't, you fall back asleep. But what I didn't realize that I was doing that like 100 times a night. So I was having really disruptive sleep and wasn't feeling good. But I never million years would have thought sleep apnea and since then, and using a mouthpiece and just good old snorestrips, I sleep a lot deeper. So it's fortunately, mine is an easy fix, but I think people can be surprised. When you think of sleep apnea, you think of someone that is typically pretty overweight, right. That's usually the standard that causes sleep apnea. But you can also have obstructive airway, which is what I have. And so I don't know, I think essentially why I'm saying this is if you feel draggy all day long, if you feel starving all the time, if you are gaining weight and you can't lose the weight or whatever it may be, maybe look into your sleep. Right.

[29:06] Dr. Holliday Bell : 100, you hit the nail on the head. And sleep apnea is much more it's often less diagnosed than women because of the reasons that you said it tends to be milder. It's not your typical overweight middle aged male, which is what we think of with sleep apnea. You may not even be snoring. Right. Like you said, you're just kind of like waking up multiple times, not really aware of it. And it's often misdiagnosed as like, anxiety or depression because insufficient sleep for a long period of time independently increases your risk of having those things. But instead of getting out of the underlying disorder, it's like, oh, you just have anxiety or you're just depressed. You're just these things. And we don't think to look into things that are interfering with sleep. So you're absolutely right. It can be so mild and it can be something that you're not aware of, which is why it's important to talk about it. As I'm a physician and a sleep specialist, but separately, in my role as a physician, every visit I'm asking, how are you sleeping? Because it's important and a lot of people don't think to even bring that up for themselves.

[30:03] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I'm sure that's such a good point.

[30:06] Amy Sherman: So talking about getting that good atmosphere for sleeping, I always hear, and you never know what's true or what's not, but is there a good temperature to sleep in? I heard the colder the better, but I want to get your official answer on that one.

[30:22] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah. When it comes to setting up your sleep environment, I like to say keep it cold, dark and quiet. And the reason for the cold statement is that your body temperature has to decrease by one to three degrees in order to facilitate the transition to sleep. It's actually one of the things that also triggers your peak mellows on the release is when your body temperature decreases. And so in the literature, you'll see temperature recommendations of 62 to 68 degrees. And some people look at me like I'm crazy when I say that. And I'm like, what? I keep my house at 80. That sounds so cold. And you know, it kind of goes back to shoe size and there is no one size fits all right? So I say if you're walking around comfortably in your home at 80 before you go to sleep, put it on a 77. It's not an absolute number. It's just it needs to be it should be decreased from your baseline when you're walking around in order to facilitate that transition and then blocking out light, blocking out sounds because that can interfere with sleep too.

[31:19] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I like it cold. What about you, Amy? I keep it cold.

[31:23] Amy Sherman: Well, it's funny, the older I get, the colder I like it. But I feel like I always get into bed and I'm freezing and my feet are always cold. So then I put socks on and then I warm up and then I take the socks off the night sometimes because I get like hot and cold. But I do find it easier to sleep when it's cold because you can get all wrapped up and everything and I was going to ask about that too. Do you have favorite? Katie and I are really into a weighted blanket, but do you have favorite kind of sleep items, sheets, PJs, like, all that kind of stuff that you would recommend?

[31:56] Katie Chandler: Yes.

[31:57] Dr. Holliday Bell : Anyone who knows me knows that I do not go anywhere. I don't spend a night in my own bed, in a hotel, anywhere without my blackout mask. It's like I have to have it. If I forget to pack it, I'm going crazy. And that's because like I said, my sleep reactivity is so high, so any light that's coming through my eyelids is not good. And I have the plush blackout mask. I'm not talking about like the little mask they give you on the plane, like the real deal 3D blackout mask with a plush cups. And the ones that I use actually have built in speakers. So if I want to do a sleep meditation before I fall asleep, it's like easy to do that. Number one, I have to have my blackout sleep mask. I also sleep with a fan every single night. So in addition to turning the temperature down, I need a fan. I mean, I'm in Chicago. It's wintertime. I sleep with my fan every single night. I have a little travel fan that I take with me again because it's hard to control the temperature in some areas. So I have a travel fan. I sit right there next to me on the night stand. So I would say bills are my two must have, cannot sleep without.

[32:59] Katie Chandler: What do you think?

[33:00] Amy Sherman: The noise of the fan too, is probably relaxing, I would think.

[33:03] Dr. Holliday Bell : Exactly. Yeah.

[33:04] Katie Chandler: What about Sunrise Timers? Those are new and we've reviewed a couple I know. Amy, you have one that you love, right? Is it the hatch?

[33:10] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I had one from Amazon and now I have the hatch, which I've had I need to set up, but my waking up game has significantly increased using those because it's not so harsh. It's like a gentle tap.

[33:23] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yes, I love hatch. I love hatch. It's a great, like I said, gentle way to wake up. Historically, that's how we were signal to wake up was from sunlight sending those alerting backers to our circadian rhythm and saying, okay, stop melatonin release, it's time to wake up. So it's such a gentler, more natural way to wake up. So I absolutely love hatch because I sleep with my blackout mask, it doesn't work as much for me, that makes sense. So unfortunately I personally don't utilize that as much. But for individuals like don't like blackout masks or whatever, don't sleep with them. I always recommend a good sunrise clock because it just makes it gentle. You just start your day so much better. It's more natural. I love a good sunrise clock and I also recommend blackout curtains. Like I have like two sets of blackout curtains on my window. So you're not getting that natural light from outside. So it is helpful to kind of recreate that through something like a sunrise alarm clock.

[34:14] Amy Sherman: Yeah, if it was up to me, I would sleep with the windows open because I love the natural light coming in the room in the morning. But again, like I said, my husband's like you, he's got the mask, the earplugs, the whole thing. And then what about beds? Do you have a certain bed that you like that is like game changing for you for sleep?

[34:32] Dr. Holliday Bell : You know? So I've gone through several, I went through several different beds. But what I will say in general, what I've found is that beds are very, it's different for different individuals. So I am someone, I'm a stomach sleeper, but I like a soft bed, which doesn't really make sense in the sleep space because if you are some sleeper, they typically recommend more firm mattresses because it's better for your back, whatever. For me, when I tried to like, okay, yes, I'm going to do this and because that's what I should do, I just sleep horribly. I like soft, like a cloud, like soft as possible. And so I think it's important to just find out what is most comfortable for you. Investing in that though, like a good solid mattress is going to work wonders for your sleep. So it is worth the investment, I will say. There's a brand new mattress called Kingstown that has a line that has separate comfort levels or firmness levels on each side. Like my husband prefers a firmer and I prefer as soft as possible. You can actually get the two different preferences built into the same mattress because that can really make a huge difference. So that's a one brand that I think does that well. But in general, finding what feels good and comfortable to you and making that.

[35:49] Amy Sherman: Investment, would you say that would be the same thing with pajamas and what you wear to sleep? Because like it's funny, I like to wear like pajamas, pants and a t shirt and some people wear like shorts and a tank top and I would be freezing all night.

[36:04] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I feel like an 80 year old woman in my nightgown.

[36:09] Amy Sherman: Feel like I couldn't wear a nightgown.

[36:10] Dr. Holliday Bell : That would make me whole. Exactly. Yeah. I think when it comes to what you sleep in, the fabric is more important than even like the type of clothing. So it helps us to wear light breezy like cotton, moisture, wicking fabrics because if you have some that hold too much heat, again, it causes you to warm up too much and integrate with sleep. But for some people they sleep in the nude, some people they like the full shebang pants, long sleeves. I think whatever makes you comfortable and not too hot is going to be the best thing to sleep in.

[36:38] Amy Sherman: Yeah, makes sense.

[36:40] Katie Chandler: This is all such great information. I feel like we could probably keep going and going and going.

[36:45] Amy Sherman: But I know there's so many more questions, but we know you have an amazing Instagram feed with so much good sleep content. So I know a lot of our listeners are always asking questions about sleep, so we definitely want to make sure that people are checking you out. Your instagram is the sleep underscore MD. That's correct, right?

[37:02] Dr. Holliday Bell : That's correct. Yes.

[37:04] Amy Sherman: Lots of great content on that.

[37:05] Katie Chandler: And where can our listeners find you if they want to work with you? Because as sleep specialist yeah.

[37:13] Dr. Holliday Bell : So you can find me at my website, www dot the Solution isleep.com. I offer a range of services for a range of sleep issues. If you're someone who just is like, I don't know what I'm doing, I just know I need to get my sleep on track. Or if you're someone you suffer from chronic long term insomnia and you've tried all the normal sleep hygiene things and it hasn't worked. I offer cognitive behavioral therapy for Insomnia, which is a longer term process to really dig deep into the root causes of insomnia and go into some therapeutic strategies to improve it. And then on a business corporate level, I work with different corporations to help their employees get better sleep because we know that sleep improves productivity, efficiency and the overall bottom line, companies basically lose less money per employee if the employees are sleeping well and they're investing in employees sleep. So I'll offer that. Just head over to my website, check that out. You can also find me on LinkedIn at Doctor Holiday bell. I try to give more longer form content than I can give on Instagram. So any of those avenues are great.

[38:17] Katie Chandler: That's great.

[38:18] Amy Sherman: It's amazing.

[38:19] Katie Chandler: It's so true. Like, sleep is absolutely everything. You know, all these people that are like, wake up at 05:00 A.m. And go to the gym and do all of this. I'm thinking now I need that extra one or 2 hours of sleep. I am prioritizing that and I'm a morning person.

[38:35] Dr. Holliday Bell : You will get more done in your day if you've dedicated the time to getting your sleep need and if you're like, oh, I'm just going to wake up thoroughly and go to sleep late. You're actually more likely to get less done in that time than if you just prioritize. So start with sleep in mind and adjust the rest of your day around. That is what I like to say.

[38:53] Katie Chandler: Nice. Well, there you go. You heard it here.

[38:54] Amy Sherman: So true. All right, so we're going to get into our wrap session. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

[39:02] Dr. Holliday Bell : Sleep chakra. But it's so true. Sleep is good for the skin. It's good to keep you young. It's sleep is always my answer.

[39:11] Katie Chandler: All right, this next one, we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower. Uber's pinged you. They're five minutes away. What are you going to do to get out the door and get into that Uber on time? What are your Holy grails, your go to? What's the quick routine?

[39:24] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, my skincare is super important to me, so I'm always going to have a good I like the seraph in the ordinary products. So good. Face wash sunscreen is so important. So if nothing else, face wash, moisturize, sunscreen, maybe a tinted moisturizer. Eyebrows are also important to me. So fill those in, lip gloss and out the door.

[39:45] Katie Chandler: Nice. Yeah.

[39:46] Amy Sherman: Your skin is gorgeous.

[39:47] Katie Chandler: Yeah, it is beautiful. We were just talking about our love for Saravay in the ordinary, like 2 hours ago. Amy and I had funny.

[39:56] Amy Sherman: And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

[40:00] Dr. Holliday Bell : Self care prioritizing what makes me happy and what allows me to be the best that I can for everyone else and all the roles that I play. That's something fairly recent for me. I would say in the past couple of years, I started to invest in and it's really changed my entire outlook on life and who I am as a person. So prioritizing my sleep, exercise, taking care of my skin, just the little things that make me feel like me and allow me to be the best version of me for everyone else.

[40:29] Katie Chandler: So important. The magic recipe right there. We really appreciate your time and I know our listeners are going to get so much from this. I'm definitely going to be sleeping better now as well. So thank you for being with us. And before we go, we'd like to close with a little mantra. So, Amy, what do you have for us?

[40:45] Amy Sherman: So I took a mantra or a quote from Dr. Holiday Bell on her Instagram feed. And I just thought it was so relevant for our conversation. And that quote is sometimes the most productive thing you can do is rest.

[41:01] Dr. Holliday Bell : Absolutely. It's love it.

[41:03] Katie Chandler: I have to say, I had a quote, too, from Dr. Holiday Bell's feed because it was so good. So I think we need to drop this one as well.

[41:10] Dr. Holliday Bell : Let's hear it.

[41:11] Katie Chandler: Rest is not the absence of activity, but the presence of peace. And I love that. It's such a good reminder and like to give yourself permission to rest, right?

[41:22] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yes, absolutely. Because you're being productive by resting and refilling your own cup. So I love it. Thank you, guys.

[41:28] Amy Sherman: That's so great. Thank you for joining us, and we would love to have you back any time. This is such an important topic, and I think it's gotten a lot of visibility over the last few years, and it's like a continuing subject I feel like I see all the time in the media. So thank you again.

[41:42] Dr. Holliday Bell : Yeah, thank you so much. I'd be happy to come back.

[41:46] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 91 - Parent Coach Erika Brunwasser Is Back - How To Stay Connected With Your Child & Stop Comparing Yourself To Other Parents (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 91.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy : Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of wellbeing and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana.

Erika : We are Sisters in law and your hosts.

Amy : I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome back to the show nirvana Sisters Family. We have an exciting guest back with us. She was a huge hit when she was here the first time. It is parent coach Erica Brunwiser. My friend, my parent coach, the best parent coach around. For those of you that don't remember or maybe didn't hear her first episode, erica Brunwiser is a parent coach and educator in Westport, Connecticut. Erica guides parents and helps them to overcome challenges and thrive in parenting and family life. She works with clients to become more connected and confident in order to help them and their children enjoy life and function better. And I can speak to that because she helped me do exactly that. Prior to becoming a parent coach, erica was a New York City school guidance counselor for thousands of families. She was a school counselor at Wagner Middle School in Power Charter School and Hunter College High School. She has helped many Fairfield County adolescents and families in various settings. Work includes leading girls empowerment groups for the New Canaan, Connecticut based nonprofit organization Live Girl. Live Girl. Probably live, girl. And running the Jewish Teen Action Committee for the Ujajcc in Greenwich, Connecticut. She has a master's degree in education and school counseling from Fordham University. Let's just put it this way. She's beyond qualified bachelor's degree in psychology from the Ohio State University. And Erica is very passionate about helping families achieve a strong connection to their children to live their best possible lives. So we have her back. We're going to get into some of these great questions about what we can do for our children, what we can do as parents to improve our lives all around well being, right? It's all about the well being.

Erika : Yay.

Amy : And I will say welcome back, Erica. Your two episodes, part one and two, have been very, very popular with our community. They've gotten like one of the highest downloads we've had, so we're so grateful to have you back. And just for our audience, the last time Erica was on it was March of 22. We did a part one and a part two, so make sure to check that out because it's a lot of great information in there. So welcome back to the show, Erica.

Erika : Thank you so much, guys. I'm so excited. I had the best time with you last year when I came, and I love talking to you guys and listening to you and so excited to be here.

Amy : Yeah, it's been almost a year. I was thinking about that.

Katie Chandler: Time goes by so fast. Well, should we stop with our Nirvana of the Week? Amy, do you want to go first?

Amy : Sure. Yeah. So I would say my nirvana this week was. I went to dinner last night with my dad. We did a little one on one dinner, which was fun and cute because he's always saying he never sees me enough, even though he literally lives in my neighborhood and practically next door to me. My parents do, which is amazing. I'm really busy so I don't get to spend as much time as we would like. So anyway, we did a little one on one daddy daughter dinner, which was nice, and just caught up and spent some time, quality time together. So that was my Nirvana this week. What about you, Katie?

Katie Chandler: Sweet. And I'm going to see your dad soon. Your parents are on their way here for the weekend. I think mineirvana this week has been my other job. My other work is ramping up and I'm working a lot and I'm loving it so much. It's so funny how much I used to take it for granted ten years ago, before I was a mom. Before, like the whole thing when I used to do it, I don't know, maybe it was burnt out.

Amy : You appreciate it more now?

Katie Chandler: Probably so much more. And I have so much fun with my clients and it's just great.

Erika : I love it.

Katie Chandler: So it's definitely a nirvana for me. What about you, Erica?

Erika : Isn't that amazing how work becomes a break sometimes when you're a parent? Yeah, that's rough. Really? So mine is actually more like a Nirvana of the month. I don't know if you guys saw, but if you follow Westport mom's Instagram, they did a giveaway, like a huge holiday giveaway, and they gave away like ten things worth like thousands of dollars, a massage, a photo shoot, a haircut and color, blah, blah, blah, million things. A diamond sapphire ring.

Katie Chandler: Wow.

Erika : I won it. You did what? So I'm about to, like, collect my winning.

Katie Chandler: Nice.

Erika : And I'm so excited and like, that is so cool. I'm literally going to go get my massage and go pamper myself and have a family photo shoot on the beach all for free because I pull a package.

Katie Chandler: You won the whole thing?

Amy : How did you enter it?

Erika : You know on Instagram when they'll be like, follow this person and tag a friend and you're entered in our giveaway. So I did that and a friend screenshotted it, sent it to me and said, you won. And I said, what did I win? She said everything.

Katie Chandler: Oh, my gosh.

Erika : That's like total nirvana. Really?

Amy : Oh, my God, that's so cool.

Erika : I know. Who wins.

Katie Chandler: I know. I love it. Great. All right, well, good for you. I'm jealous.

Erika : Good for you.

Katie Chandler: All right, well, let's kick it off. So Erica has so much great content and she gives the most phenomenal advice and you absolutely have to listen to her first episodes of One and Two with us because we get into a lot. I think this time around we are just going to kind of dial into more like the wellness for you as a parent and how to keep the balance between you and your child. And there'll be some other little tips in there. But to start out, this is one that I know I'm guilty of. I think probably every parent in the world is at least the moms who knows what the dads are thinking, but.

Erika : Nothing I just get so we all.

Katie Chandler: Compare ourselves to other parents all the time. It's social media, right? We see these, like, super moms doing all these amazing things and it's really hard to not compare. So tell us about that. What are you seeing with your clients in that respect? How are you dealing with that as a parent yourself, and what can we do to keep that from happening all the time? Comparison is the thief of joy.

Erika : Yes, it really is. So it's actually interesting because I just read a book recently where the author talked a lot about this and it's called You Are Not a ****** Parent by an author named Carla Nomberg. And I moderated like a book. Talk with her through the Jewish Federation of Greater Fairfield County. So I got to meet her and we discussed this at Link, and she was saying that in our culture, social media has played such a big role in this and it's trickling down to the adolescents and to the even like the early teens, late childhood. And I think that what's happening is we really are comparing ourselves so much, and the bar has changed for what we're striving for in our society. Whereas 2030 years ago it was maybe normal to have ups and downs and good days and bad days, now we're getting on social media and we're scrolling and we're seeing, oh, my God, this one's doing amy and Katie are doing this unbelievable podcast. Look at them. What am I doing with my life? Or look at Erica, she did a speaking engagement as a parent coach the other day. But obviously my life is nowhere near perfect. Your lives are probably nowhere near perfect, but because of the frequency with which we're looking at other people, I mean, you know how many times a day we're checking our phones? I know it's crazy and it's changing. I think the bar for what we're striving for. And it used to be that maybe you'd pick up a fashion magazine and especially when we talk about girls and body image and adolescence, maybe you'd strive to look like the girl in the magazine, but then you'd put it down and you'd get a break and you'd feel present, but it's just constant. And I think that we really need to be mindful of our social media usage, how we're modeling it for our kids, making an intention to say, I'm going to put it down between the hours of seven and nine or whatever it is, and we really need to kind of remove ourselves. And I think we need to take a little bit more control back. We've given so much control to these devices that we just can't live without and I think it plays a huge part in at the end of the day, really it's impacting our self esteem and making us feel less than when that's not the case because everyone's life is up and down and in the middle. But people are only showing the best parts of themselves, right?

Katie Chandler: And that's what is so easy to forget. When we see these influencers on social media, especially the parenting ones that are posting like every single day. They've got this new great craft that they're doing with their kid or how they've organized the playroom and done all of these amazing things. We really do have to remind ourselves that that is just a small glimpse into their everyday life. They're also dealing in the weeds and dealing with all of the **** just the same as the rest of us are. So it's kind of a matter of, like you said, removing yourself and then also removing the devices rather and then having some self compassion, right? I literally very recently Googled is it okay to yell at my kids?

Amy : I would say too, I also think social media is changing or at least what I'm seeing. And like with my other job and the way that people are approaching social, I think that people are starting to be more real and to actually talk about real things, especially on TikTok. And so I'm really happy to see that people are actually filter off literally and figuratively, right, and talking about real issues and connecting with people more and more. So hopefully the trend will continue in that way. I think it's kind of gone are the days of these like I would hope people for the most part with all these people that are thinking like everyone's lives are perfect, can kind of look at it and roll their eyes and be like okay, because it's not what you see. What's that phrase? Like what you see is not always what it is. Right? To your point, that's two minutes of their day and what else is happening? So I think I try to take all of that stuff with a grain of salt and I just think you also have to have a really good compass to be able to brush it off, which not everybody can. I mean, I know people have just gone off social media because I think it's just really hard for them to look, to see what other people are doing. It's just hard for them to not compare themselves, also feel insecure. And I think if you're that kind of person, I think it is healthy to go off. Right, but I think too we have to take all of these things with the grain of salt because nothing is.

Erika : What it seems to do and also cultivating a community around you that you know is comprised of supportive and real people, right?

Amy : Yeah.

Erika : Katie, you and I are friends for real outside of work, and I think some of the women that we're friends with here that we've met in Westport are just super real and will show up for you. And I think finding those people, it's not always easy and it takes time, especially if you're new to a community. But finding people who you feel comfortable, like, showing your messy house to or, like, no makeup or saying, like, this day is a total **** show. Because we need to have people who can normalize these things for us. Because life is up and down and we've never been so insular throughout all of history. People lived in villages, people celebrated together, people mourned together. Now we're really kind of like on an island at home. A lot of people are working from home or just kind of turning on the TV to keep our kids busy. And it's not something we should feel guilty about. But I do think to create intentional times, to surround yourself in person with others, with others who are real, with others who are also going through hard things, who feel comfortable sharing and normalizing the negative as well as the positive, I think that that's a huge piece of that.

Katie Chandler: 100%.

Amy : Yeah, I totally agree. And I would say, too, I feel like the older you get, you want to surround yourself with the people that you can be the most real with, to your point, like wearing no makeup, with complain, talk about the good, the bad, have your house messy, like, who cares? And those are the people that you're going to end up, or at least that I end up gravitating to, because who has time to deal with the other nonsense?

Katie Chandler: And also, parenting can be really isolating, I think sometimes, especially in the early years when you have babies, when the kids are really little, you can just be so entrenched that it's hard to kind of see outside of what's going on in your four walls.

Erika : Yeah, it's really consuming.

Katie Chandler: It's all consuming. It really is. Yeah. So that's all great advice. So speaking of that, it being all consuming, let's talk about I saw recently that you were imploring your followers and your clients and everything on social media to put themselves first and to take care of themselves in order to be connected and be present with their children. And Amy and I, obviously, we stand behind this. This is kind of why we're here. And what we do is taking care of yourself and your well being to be your best of us. So let's talk more about that. Why do you feel that's so important?

Erika : So when I started this business was about a year ago, and I had worked in schools, like you mentioned earlier in the podcast, and I had gone to grad school for education. And I had read all the books and done all the things and gone to all the professional development seminars, and I learned a lot about behavior and academics and kids and how to succeed and how to be mentally healthy and all that stuff. And I think that what parents were really yearning for, especially coming out of COVID was like, just give me the strategies. Just, this is happening. Tell me what to do. And they were so eager. And when I first started working one on one with them in this setting, not in the school setting, I was like, okay, well, now they're actually paying me, right? So I want to give them results. So I would just kind of like, spit out strategies like, okay, you're doing this. Get a feelings chart. This is how you're going to use it. This is a chart. This is a sticker chart. And then I thought, wait, I know in my heart that what these parents need is to feel more confident in their parenting, to feel more well rounded overall, to feel like they have some fulfillment in their own lives. And as soon as parents can get to a place where they're feeling those things, then their kids will benefit. As a result, it's not always about fixing the problem or getting them through whatever stage they're in because the ups and downs of life and development are going to happen. But you know how they say, like, happy wife, happy life? Well, like, I think like, a mom who is content and a mom who feels fulfilled is going to have a family who feels more content. And so what I started doing with my clients is really taking a look at their lives. We did this together, looking at the different areas of their lives. How are you feeling in love and romance? How are you feeling in work? What do you want to achieve in work? Really setting concrete goals. How are you feeling in communicating with your kids? How are you feeling with your home? And are you overwhelmed and do you maybe need to move some finances around to get someone in to help you in some way? Like taking the pressure off, setting concrete goals and allowing parents to feel like, actually, you know what? I'm important and I'm going to put my needs first. That has such a tremendous impact on the wellbeing of the whole family. And the kids end up being happier and healthier that way. When the parent is happier, yeah, they.

Katie Chandler: Benefit from it tremendously. Right now, I think about looking back on times maybe like this past year when I was having a harder year. Of course my temper is up, I'm more short fused. I might snap. I might, like, raise my voice more. Just generally speaking, if the if the mom, if the parent is feeling a sense of unease or stressed, like, it leaches out into everything else, right?

Amy : Your kids feel it. I mean, like the temperature of the room changes if you're in a certain mood. Like, everyone can feel that energy.

Erika : And I also think it's really important, like we were saying, with comparison, like to normalize the good and the bad and everything in between. I think when it comes to and not to knock the name of your podcast, which is an amazing name, but I don't know that going for pure Nirvana every day is actually our goal.

Amy : Right.

Erika : You know what I mean? Maybe we're going for like mediocrity in our lives. Like maybe we're like which is your.

Amy : Nirvana and that's and maybe the badges.

Erika : Are just something that come and we just kind of ride the wave and maybe being more accepting and more having the expectation that these are going to come and we're going to get through them is healthier for us and for our kids. And that when challenges come up with our kids, it's not a catastrophe, it's actually just life and we will get through it and we can get through it.

Katie Chandler: Right?

Erika : And so I think when we're talking about our own wellness, our mindset and shifting to away from perfection and to normalizing the ups and downs is a hugely healthy shift that we all should make 100%.

Katie Chandler: Speaking to that of achieving the greatest nirvana, I have been trying to live more like, you have these peaks and valleys, right? We have really bad days. We have really great days. And I think trying to live in that middle zone that like even keel all the time, things are good things. We shouldn't always be shooting for the stars every day. And it's okay if we have these really bad days. If we can just kind of like the day to day exist in the middle. For me, that's minor vana. And I think the kids can can feel that, like, sense of calm and, you know, like, we have a bad day, it's okay, pick ourselves up the next day, it's fine, no big deal.

Erika : And what goes hand in hand with that, which is maybe surprising to some of your listeners, is that if you live your life in a place where you're kind of expecting the bad to happen and you normalize, that it's okay to have positives and negatives. I think that the kids will feel less intimidated to come to you with whatever's going on.

Amy : Right?

Erika : So when you talk about like we were talking about being present and communicating, if it's expected that your kids are allowed to fail at some things or are allowed to go through hard days or don't always have to make the team or don't always have to have these perfectionistic standards, then they'll also be more likely to come to you with those things. Right? And so if you're modeling for them you know what, this is a really hard week. I'm not feeling great. And that's okay. Because I know that next week is going to get better. Then it really opens up the lines of communication between you and your kids, especially adolescents, because as you know, Amy, having adolescents, they are so high and so low. Okay? If they're feeling sad, sadness is a part of life. I'm not saying that we should be overlooking depression or any serious mental illness, but highs and lows, the Moody one.

Amy : Day, all right, whatever. Tomorrow they'll be in a different mood. It's just like us, right? Some days are good and some days are bad. Also just going back to the putting yourself first piece. They always say, which I hear all the time, but on an airplane, that comparison of, like, putting on your face mask before you put on your children, like, take care of yourself first before you can take care of your children, because otherwise you won't be able to take care of your children. So super important. And, yeah, I think it's a really good point about the Nirvana piece. And just like Katie said, I think, and we always try to preach this, too, about whatever Nirvana means for you, which could mean it's not a great day, it's not a bad day. It might just be in the middle, or maybe today is bad, but I know tomorrow is going to be good. So I think it's about adjusting that based on the day and trying to find some sort of joy throughout your day. But right. Not every day is going to be great. And totally agree that it's really helpful to share that with your kids and tell your kids you're not having a great day or something like that, because they're obviously very influenced by what other friends are doing on social media and all the things they aren't invited to, potentially, and all of that stuff. And they need to know what's up.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, very well said. I totally agree. Well, I would love to get into some quick tips that we might have for being more present with our children, connecting with our children, and opening the lines of communication. We talked about this when you were here last time, but I think it's always great to repeat some of this. So what do you have for us there?

Erika : So I think when we say being present with our kids, I think we have to define, like, what do we mean by being present with our kids? Am I suggesting that every single person put down their phone all the time and be staring at their kids? I am not suggesting that. So sometimes I really do think people put that amount of pressure on themselves, like, okay, my kid's going to walk in the door, put down the phone, be ready, not reality. So I just want to be clear, that is not the goal here. But when you do connect, and when you do make yourself available for connection, it should be as device free and as authentic as possible. So maybe you make intentional times to have family dinner four nights a week. And if that's not realistic for your family, maybe it's three nights a week.

Katie Chandler: Or.

Erika : Maybe it's that you take a walk with your kid two days a week, you walk the dog and phones are away and you're really using those device free times. There's an amazing book that I really enjoy that I think your listeners would enjoy called Simplicity Parenting. And the author is Kim Jong Payne. And it's all about how much our environment really does lend itself or not lend itself to connecting with our kids and being present. And it's amazing. Like even at bedtime, small environmental tweaks you can make like turning down the lights or turning off TV an hour before bedtime, even if you just have the news on the background, for some households, that's the norm. And just thinking about changing little details and opportunities for connection and I do think bedtime is a huge opportunity for connection. It's interesting. It's almost like our kids can read our vibes. We just want to get upstairs to our room or get down the hall to our room. We just want to tuck them in and say goodnight and get out of there and then they start opening up with everything that happened that day. So I think bedtime, if you can try to do bedtime and have a little routine for connection as often as possible.

Amy : So question on bedtime, because I think when my kids were little, that was easier to do and I could get little nuggets here and there. But now my kids are older, 13 and almost 16, and they go to bed later than me. I'm exhausted at night. My little one will sometimes be like, can you rub my back? But it's like 1030 and I'm like, I'm so tired, I can't and I feel bad. But for teenagers, I feel like it's really hard to connect at night because they're already like they're up late, they're doing their thing, I don't know. So what are you seeing with older kids and that connection at night time? Is it more during dinner?

Erika : No, I would say don't force it. But maybe it's something like you just leave your door open until then. They may just kind of come and want to tell you something or something really simple like that. Or maybe it's you peek in before you go up and say like, hey, maybe you start a new little ritual with them, like, hey, I just want you to know I'm going to bed. But I thought we could maybe try this thing where we do like highs and lows of our day. You could even suggest it at a time that's not bedtime, try to kind of incorporate it into the bedtime. But I think it's a hard balance with adolescence because you don't want to push them because then you're pushing them away, and it's okay that they sometimes leave for a bit and then come back to you. You just make yourself available. I think there are things you can do as well with all ages, like more kind of practical, concrete strategies, like body language. Maybe you're just kind of sitting in the same room doing your own thing, but maybe it's something as simple as just kind of, like, turning towards them, and then you never know what can come from that. They may open up and say something or I think we talked about this last year when I was on the podcast, but just noticing kind of really awesome things they do and saying it out loud because so often we are so busy and we're going through our days and we're forgetting to say, that was so awesome what you just did. Thank you. Like, catching them in the moment. That works for three year olds.

Amy : I recently did that the other day with my younger one.

Erika : Yeah, exactly. So that works for three year olds, 13 year olds, because he had, like.

Amy : A really good reaction to something which he normally wouldn't. And I was like, oh, I'm so proud of you that you handled it.

Erika : And what was his reaction when you said that?

Amy : I think he just, like, smiled and felt good.

Erika : By the way, they don't show you that they feel good from a comment. Like, that doesn't mean they're not good.

Katie Chandler: They are.

Erika : They're still human beings. They want to connect. They want to feel good. Think about it. Work. Like if your boss said to you, like, wow, I had asked you to work on that, and you did, and I'm really noticing a change, you'd be like, yeah, I feel good, totally. And then I think I don't know. For connection with teens, I think parents really often forget, like, you have to ask open ended questions. You can't ask yes or no questions that will totally shut them down. Did you have a good day? Yeah. Think about the difference between saying to someone, did you have a good day? Versus, oh, I wonder how that test went today. It elicits a totally different response, and people forget that using just simple statements, open ended, like, tell me more about that. Like, oh, I'd love to hear more about that. When you're more in the mood, like, not being pushy, but giving them this opportunity to kind of respond in the ways that they want instead of yes or no questions tend to really shut down the conversation.

Katie Chandler: Yeah. I just recently started saying things that pick up because I was like, So tell me about your day, and I would get nothing. So then I started saying, okay, what's one really funny thing that happened today? Give me one thing that made you laugh. Or, like, was there a time today where you were, like, a little unsure and anxious? I'm just trying to pull these. Nuggets. It's amazing how much they don't want to try.

Erika : I know. But you know what? At your kid's ages, elementary.

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Erika : They're so exhausted at that time. That's true. And they need that break. They need the quiet. I mean, a lot depends on your kid, but if you have a kid who's a little more introverted, they may just need to sit and chill and go in the room for an hour and it may come out later, like at bedtime, when you're ready to go to bed. Right, right.

Katie Chandler: Definitely.

Erika : The open ended questions or statements are huge, and just thinking about tweaking the things you say in a way that from yes or no to open ended can help a lot.

Katie Chandler: Okay.

Amy : I've also found, and I've mentioned this before. I think I've told you this before, Erica, but I also find that my kids open up more when I'm doing something they want to do. So, like, Jackson, my older one, is starting to drive, so he really wants us to take him driving.

Erika : Driving.

Amy : I mean, he doesn't talk that much because he's just learning how to dress. He's nervous, but in general, he's in a better mood when he comes back because he's done something that he wants. Or if you sit and watch a sports game or whatever it is, they just tend to just give you a couple more nuggets because they're happy that you're doing that thing with them, whatever it is, versus being like, do you want to do this with me? And they don't want to do it. Even if it's something that you think is fun, like a walk or this, and they don't want to do it. They don't want to do it.

Erika : It has to be their thing. It has especially the little ones, you can make a huge deal of it. You are going to pick what we're doing today and it's going to be so cool. You can pick a puzzle. I can jump on the trampoline with you. Whatever it is that they like to do. And you do it and you say, this is just going to be like I say to my three year old sometimes because I know that she feels when I'm busy and when I'm cleaning the kitchen, when I'm on a work call and I'm just kind of putting on the TV for her, then I intentionally will say to her, marlowe me, and you are going to have marlowe mommy time. And I know that it's just for the next 20 minutes. I'm going to put the phone in another room and we're just going to sit and I'm going to say, you get to pick. How cool is that? Do you want to read books or do a puzzle? So that works with older ones, but especially the younger ones. Really awesome.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, that works really well with Reese, too, and she's five. It's amazing how much, like 20 minutes of doing that one thing with her. Like, we played Barbie's last weekend for 20 minutes, and she was just like, she was done. She could have played by herself, and.

Erika : You'Re all in it for those 20 minutes. And it's amazing, actually, how much they kind of will comply after that.

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Erika : It's like telling a kid who feels like you fulfilled their need for a connection to brush their teeth is different than telling a kid who feels like they've been ignored all day.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, absolutely. Before we let you go, amy and I have some personal questions that we want to ask, and I would like to get your tips for how to handle bullying. I've got a nine year old, and she's getting into that age where it's all about social, social, and there is definitely some being left out going on, some bullying, some rocky friendships. It's breaking my heart, and I don't know what to do about it.

Erika : It's really hard.

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Erika : It's really heartbreaking. And I think when I had my daughter Sadie, seven years ago, it was like, all of a sudden, my heart went from being in my body to now it lives outside of my body, and it's Sadie. And when she's happy, I'm happy, and when she's not happy, I'm not happy. And finding a balance for ourselves as parents, and that's why putting yourself first is so important and finding things that can kind of fill your cup, as we say, is a huge part of that equation. But it doesn't make it easier when they're going through something hard. And I think that when your kid comes to you with something hard and they are actually at a point where they're ready to open up to you about it, you got to thank them. The first thing is thank you. I think we maybe talked about that last time. Thank you for coming to me with that. I appreciate that. And then when they're coming to you, they want to know that you understand that you're there for them, that you're here for them, and they want to know that they're not alone, but they are not looking for you to fix it.

Katie Chandler: Okay, that's interesting because that's where I'm getting pushback. I tried to fix it, and then she's shut down.

Erika : And that's the thing. It's like, okay, there's this brilliant psychologist named Richard Schwartz, and his method for therapy is called Ifs. I don't know if you guys have heard of it, internal family systems. It's amazing. And I think your listeners would probably really like to know more about that so they can look it up. But basically he says that hard things are going to happen and sad feelings are going to happen, angry feelings are going to happen, but the trauma doesn't come from the hard experience. The trauma comes from feeling alone in that experience. I also want to say it's not my idea, it's Richard Schwartz from Ifs, but it is brilliant and it helps me in my work very much. So the trauma doesn't come from going through the hard experience. The trauma comes from feeling alone in.

Katie Chandler: That experience and trying to get through it on your own.

Erika : And so as a parent, when you've provided these opportunities for connection and for communication and your kid knows, my mom is here for me, she loves me, I can go to her. That is like 50% of the battle with the bullying and with whatever they're going through. So I want you to be confident because I know you as a mom.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, I'm tearing up thinking about it.

Erika : That you have done the work. I'm here for you, I love you, and you can come to me. The mean girls are going to happen. The being left out is going to happen. But the fact that she has a mom that she can go to and tell you what's going on is like, such a huge piece of that puzzle.

Katie Chandler: Okay, so I need to stop trying to fix that.

Erika : I think so, because I think what's.

Amy : Important are you supposed to empathize and.

Erika : Just say, be my formula for that, that you say, thank you, I'm here for you, and then you ask an open ended question, okay, so can you tell me a little bit more about that or what's going on with that? And then you empathize and depending on the age of the kid. So, like, Amy for you and also the fact that you have boys, they may not want a really long winded paragraph of a response. You may just say something like, that sucks. And then they're like, yeah, it does. You know, your kid, and you kind of gauge like, what the response is. And for you, it might be something like, god, it sounds like she's really leaving you out. And then you'll hear she'll say, yeah, and then this happened. And then she's like, wow, my mom really? She gets me. She's with me. And to say to her specifically, you know what, I just want you to know you are not alone and maybe you even want to share something that.

Katie Chandler: Happened in your childhood. Yeah, I haven't done that yet, and I need to.

Erika : Can I tell you something? This really reminds me of something that I went through when I was in third grade and I remember and this happened and she's like, really, mom? And all of a sudden she's validated. I think the problem is so think about if a kid came to you and said so and so didn't invite me to her birthday party. And now think about if you're the kid and you're telling your mom and the first thing your mom says is, what? How could she not invite you? You're so amazing, you're so beautiful. I'm calling her mother right now and you're going to be invited. Imagine how that would shut you down and how embarrassed you would feel and how you wouldn't want to come back to that person. And then imagine a mom who says something like, oh, that must be so painful, and they're like, yeah, and let me tell you why. And it's like, wow, my mom really gets me. And then if you do really feel the need to fix or to do something action oriented, you know how to come up with something that's appropriate for your family and your kids. So maybe it's, hey, you know what? Which girls do you really like? Who makes you feel really good? Let's invite a couple of girls over this weekend. Let's plan a really connecting with them. And I think that having that shift from in your own mind and this is really what I do with my clients, and, you know, this is that, oh, my kid cannot go through this. She's not going to be okay to normalizing it and saying, this is part of childhood. This is part of development. This is part of growing up. I am her calm, confident, strong leader, and I will help her get through this, and she will be okay.

Katie Chandler: Yeah. So it's being the support system, which is what we are as parents, is.

Erika : What we're here for, and you don't want a kid think about the people that you really like who are interesting and fun and dynamic and funny and cool. Have they been through things in their lives?

Katie Chandler: Yeah, of course.

Erika : Do you want a kid who's never been through anything?

Katie Chandler: Right.

Erika : That person is not someone I want to hang out with.

Katie Chandler: Okay. Yeah. That's excellent advice, as usual. Excellent. All right. Thank you.

Amy : I know. I'm like salivating. It's such good news.

Erika : That is so not what I do. I am so anxious and wrapped up in my kids feelings. So when we're talking about perfection and comparison like we were in the beginning of this conversation, I do not always do this. Guys, I'm striving to do this right, but I don't take the advice with a great assault. Do with it as much as you can and know that.

Amy : Even take the bosses that you remember.

Erika : Your kid will be okay.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's very true. All right.

Erika : Yeah.

Amy : Okay. So my question and this isn't really as deep. It's just more of just something I noticed that happens all the time, but it happened last night, and I was like, let me ask Eric about this. And I've probably mentioned it before, but my little one is extremely sensitive. Like, overly sensitive and overly reactive to many things. And in fact, I want him to go see someone just because I think he just doesn't handle his emotions well. And so this is a good example. Last night, I was already in bed, but I hear him downstairs watching the Celtics game with my husband. Something happened, and they didn't win, and someone made some stupid move, whatever, and I hear him, like, bang the sofa and he's like, screams. He's so upset and comes running upstairs, like not hysterical crying, but like crying, like something happened to him. It wasn't just like they didn't play well in the game, whatever. He's like crying. I mean, he's 13 years old and he's crying about his team losing the game. So it's a little bit overly sensitive. And he's like that with a lot of things. Like he gets this isn't the right word, but like flies off the handle really quickly for things that are not big deals. So it's like, yes, I want him to get him someone to talk to so he can have strategies. It's not like anger management. I don't know what it is. But he needs strategy is to not do that. Sometimes he's really good and sometimes but anyway, I just want to get your thoughts on it.

Erika : I want him to have healthy coping skills.

Amy : Yes.

Erika : So, first of all, I want to remind you that when you're between the ages of like twelve and 15, there is so much going on chemically for them. Like their brains and their hormones are developing in such crazy ways and the feelings that they feel are like 100 times more intense than the feelings that we feel. So I want to normalize that for you and to tell you that I do not know. And yes, I do think it's a good idea for him to talk to someone. And I'm also not a psychologist and I don't diagnose, but it's probably developmentally appropriate, it sounds like. And I also think that it's also hard. And so yes, it's normal and it's proactive to want to get him some coping skills. And so, you know, what what does he love to do? Does he exercise? Does he play sports? Does he love music?

Amy : Plays sports, loves music.

Katie Chandler: Yes.

Erika : I know some kids they'll make a playlist for when they're feeling a certain way. Maybe he wants to do something like that. Or maybe I don't know if he's the kind of kid who can transition well from like screen time, but like, maybe he does need like 20 minutes of just playing a video game with a friend to kind of wind down.

Amy : Yeah, I think too, it's late. Like, he's watching his games. It's late and he's tired probably from the day. So I would imagine just like it would be for me, your emotions are more or higher because you're tired and you're just like you lash out or whatever.

Erika : And the physiological needs are really a huge part of our emotions as we know, like making sure that he is getting more sleep, maybe trying to tweak bedtime. I do not think phones should be in the room at night.

Amy : I know, and I'm so guilty of it. It's so bad. I very hard to control when the kids get older.

Erika : But I was validated by I went to see this woman, this psychologist and parenting expert, lisa Damore. I saw her speak. She also has a podcast. And I saw her speak last night at Greens Farms Academy here in Westport, and she spoke to an audience of hundreds of parents of middle school and high school parents, and she's been practicing for, like, more than 20 years. And she said phones should never be in the bedroom.

Amy : Yeah, I got to rein it back in for him. Just tell him to put his phone downstairs at 09:00 or whatever the yeah.

Erika : And it's easy for parents to say, well, it's an outlook for them, and they communicate with their friends, and, you know, we make excuses. But when it comes down to it, if if that's going to affect physiologically what he's feeling and then in turn, that affects everything. Eating, emotions, academic achievement, really, sleep affects everything. And if the phone is going to be the key to getting more sleep, I think that's a big piece of that puzzle.

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Amy : And I think, too, just like the wind down factor, even if he is watching the game, it's very, like, adrenaline. So, like, that's enough adrenaline. You don't need the phone to, like, texting with your friends, talking about the game. So it's just like another stimuli. So it's a really good reminder. Like, I got to have him put him put it down in the kitchen because we've just gotten a little bit more relaxed with it with him. And it's in his room, and I know he looks at it before he goes to bed or like, he watches sometimes he's, like, watching a movie, falls asleep, but still, that's not good. So I need to bring that in. The older one, forget it. It's a lost cause. I can't take it out of his.

Erika : Room with the younger one, but he's still an opportunity. Yeah.

Amy : And you know what? I feel like he's actually can sort of cope. He doesn't have a lot of those coping issues. Like, he has other stuff. And the phone used to be a bigger deal than it is now, and I feel like, yes, he's on his phone a lot, along with all of his other friends, but I don't think he's, like, up all night on the phone, and I don't know how much it's affecting his other world. I mean, it probably is, but it's also very difficult with him.

Erika : Good for them to have a break from just socialization, because think about when we were growing up. Like, we came home and there was a break, like, even if you were on the phone, oh, my God, I.

Amy : Used to come home and watch General.

Erika : Hospital every day, and I used to watch an on a two and a week, but that was a break. Like, you were constantly socializing and bombarded with group chats and group text messages.

Amy : Right. You're not talking to yourself.

Erika : It's not healthy. So we, as the parents, I think actually our whole generation of parents has to really come together and say for the well being of our kids, we need to put stricter boundaries on this stuff.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you 100%.

Amy : All right. We've taken up way too much of your time, but we need to have you back. Yeah.

Katie Chandler: Thank you so much for being with us here.

Amy : It's so good.

Erika : I really love it. You guys are so awesome.

Katie Chandler: We're going to have you back again soon, hopefully, if we can.

Erika : Yay.

Katie Chandler: All right, Nirvana. This is just family.

Amy : Wait, I have something really funny just to close out with, something light and airy that we were talking about before, about comparing yourselves. I sent this quote or one of my friends, we have like this funny group chat speaking of group chats and she sent this funny quote the other day and it has to do with comparison and I just want to read it to you because it would make me laugh. It was from this Instagram page, lulu and Lattes. It says, I hate people who make everything a competition. I'll say I'm tired and someone will attack me and say, I haven't slept in three years and I work twelve hour shifts, so how are you tired? And I'm like and there's like 10 million question marks. And I'm like, question mark, question mark, question *****. Just let me be tired. ****, Ellen. Very funny.

Erika : Yeah, we're all tired. We don't have to be the most tired, right?

Katie Chandler: Exactly.

Amy : All right, thanks. And thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters.

Erika : If you loved what you just listened.

Amy : To or know someone that would, please.

Erika : Share it and tag us.

Amy : Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye,

Episode 89 - Peptide Therapy and Hormone Optimization with Katy Whalen, Co-Founder + CEO of Joi Women’s Wellness, What are Peptides? (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 89

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of wellbeing and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:28] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters family. We are so excited to meet Katie Whalen who's the co founder and CEO of Joy Women's Wellness which is an innovative peptide and hormone balancing therapy brand. I'm so excited because I just hear so much about peptides and aminos and omegas and there's all these buzzwords going around and we really want to get deep into what this is and how people can benefit from it. Your skin is glowing. So I'm already knowing that this is going to be a helpful therapy for our listeners. But I'm just going to give a little bit about Katie before we get into all of this. Katie started Joy because she knew she wasn't alone. She had a long journey through infertility miscarriages IVF. And finally giving birth to her little boy left her feeling fatigued, hormonal overweight and struggling with brain fog. I think we can all relate to this. She searched for a holistic solution that would help her feel like me again. And that's when she learned about hormone optimization and peptide. Therapies, the only problem is they were so hard to come by. So after both her and her husband began to experience amazing results with both peptide and hormones, he knew she had to share them with women everywhere. So Joy is a place where women can find answers, manage their health, holistically and truly start to feel like themselves again. Looking better too is just an added bonus because you know what? We all deserve to fear our best from the inside out. So welcome to the show, Katie. We're so excited to have you here. Thank you for spending your time with us today.

[01:58] Katy Whalen: Thank you ladies. I'm super excited too.

[02:01] Amy Sherman: Yeah. So let's get into it. Well, actually, before we get into it sorry, I'm just rushing right in because I'm so excited to hear about this. Let's take a step back and talk about our weekly Nirvana now. We are taping this right before the new year so I'm going to kick off with well, actually I'll move it to Katie or Kay. We're going to call her on this episode, Katie Chandler. Katie to talk about her Nirvana of the week.

[02:24] Katie Chandler: Yeah. Thanks, Amy. Well, Katie, we are so excited. I actually was with some friends last night and they know a little bit about this. So I was salivating being able to talk to you and then come back and say, well, I know a little bit about it too, so we're very excited to get into it. But my Nirvana this week I think was work. I've mentioned I've gone back to work, I'm a fit model and I was a little nervous about how that was going to pan out. Being a seasoned model these days, I didn't know if the work was going to roll in, but I have been manifesting work and abundance and it is happening. I worked. I had a full day job all day on Wednesday that just popped up and more work is popping up and go see and all kinds of stuff. So it's just exciting because it's going in the direction that I hoped but wasn't sure if it would. But if I look tired today, that's because I am exhausted at this whole going back to work, being a mommy, being a podcaster juggling situation. Not exactly like hitting it out of the park in all arenas, but it's okay. So that was minor. Van. What about you, Ave?

[03:36] Amy Sherman: That's awesome. Katie, I'm so proud of you. I know we've been chatting on text and it's just like it's so nice to see you kind of back in the game. And Katie, you had taken a break for how long, ten years? Yeah. So I was saying it just must be nice to have something for yourself where you're not having to attend to little people all the time. So I've had a lot of nirvana lately. We recently got back from an amazing international trip to Israel for my son's bar Mitzvah, so we'll talk about that another time. But I would say this week I had a nirvana at work, too. I had this big deadline looming over me and I finally completed that deadline this week. And so it just was such a relief to get this big project off of my brain. So I just feel relieved. And that was just like a nice moment to be like, okay, now I can do these couple more things and then kind of enjoy the holiday for the next two weeks. What about you, Katie?

[04:30] Katy Whalen: You know what? Mine nirvana is actually going to be this afternoon. I had emailed you guys a little while back and asked to move the podcast recording up because my daughter is turning five this month and with a new business and with two little kids, I constantly feel like I'm struggling to have quality time with my kids. So a couple of months back, her grandma Gigi sent her this American Girl doll catalog and she's been dreaming of this doll ever since. So I'm surprising her today. This afternoon took some time off work and we're going to go to the big store, get her a doll, and we're going to do the whole party with cupcakes and tears.

[05:12] Katie Chandler: Oh, that's so fun.

[05:14] Katy Whalen: It's fun. And I obviously feel like the whole week I'm excited. I'm like, I'm 43 and I'm like super excited to go.

[05:21] Amy Sherman: That does sound fun.

[05:22] Katie Chandler: That's great. I have a five year old and we did that with my older daughter when she turned six. That exact experience at the cafe and the whole thing with the doll and they have the little seat for the doll. It's the cutest thing and she's going to have the time of her life and so are you.

[05:36] Katy Whalen: It's really sweet.

[05:37] Amy Sherman: That is so cute. I haven't gotten to experience that because I have two boys, but I'm going to vicariously live through both of you and I need to see pictures because that sounds so fun and right up my alley. Okay, amazing. So let's get into your company Joy, and kind of I have so many questions about peptides. I don't even know what they are really other than I know they're really I hear they're amazing for you, but if you can kind of break it down for us, give us a 101 on what peptide therapy is, what peptides are, and about your amazing company.

[06:08] Katy Whalen: Yeah, so peptides, I didn't know what they were a little over a year ago either, but I used them to help me kind of like after I was done having kids to really help me propel my health and feel better. So now I'm obsessed. But what they technically are short chains of amino acids and they direct ourselves to perform specific functions. So I think of them as like a key to open a door. And of course as we age our levels decline. So peptide therapy is just adding back in some of those keys to open more doors. So you can help maybe with symptoms you have or even if you have no symptoms, there's lots of just benefits and overall vitality you can get from it.

[06:53] Katie Chandler: And amino acids, those are the building blocks to protein and to muscle building, correct? Is that right? Yeah.

[07:01] Katy Whalen: And so when we say short chains, it's literally from like two to 50 chains of these bonded together and a protein is over 100 chains of the amino acids. And that's about the extent of my science knowledge. Yeah, that's exactly right.

[07:21] Amy Sherman: And so are there all different kinds of peptides and do you use different ones for different treatments?

[07:32] Katy Whalen: Yeah, exactly, there's a lot of peptides and I think more peptides will be discovered in the future. I mean we have right now naturally occurring in your body like something like 7000 peptides. So we have probably peptides that we offer right now, I would say a dozen peptides for different things. And there's a peptide for gut health and inflammation. There's a peptide, a couple of peptides for weight loss that are super popular right now. One of my favorites is a growth hormone releasing peptide which tells your body to release more of its own growth hormone. We have peptides for skin health, hair health, basically you name it. I say there's a peptide for that.

[08:19] Katie Chandler: Amazing. So how did Joy tell us how you got started with Joy and what exactly Joy is doing for your clients?

[08:29] Katy Whalen: Yeah, I mean it was all based off my own health experience. I got married when I was 35 and right away, started focusing on a family and before that I was being single in my thirty s. I had time and resources and just took such good care of myself. Looked great, felt great. It was just a great time in my life. When I got married at 35, started on the you know, family train right away. Had a ton of you know, difficulty with my ability journey and really became this like warrior determined to make it through and have my family. I had four miscarriages and IVF and all the things that so many women do but when I finally had my babies I woke up at 41 and going holy moly. At the last six years of my life I haven't really taken care of myself. I was just focused on all the things and now I have two little ones and I'm overweight. I have brain fog, I have who am I and is this the new me or can I get back to some of those self care routines so I can feel good myself and have the energy to take care of these demanding little beings. So I started, the first thing I started actually was getting on testosterone because my phone was super low and I started to see some great change, more motivation at the gym. I started to be able to notice I was getting stronger. It helped me lose some of that fat and gain some muscle which was pretty exciting. And then I learned of peptides and started testing some of those out, did the weight loss peptide which I was amazed to get to my, I had a goal in mind and I was like I'm going to try to get there but in my mind I was like it might not be possible. Got there, actually went past it and I was just like this is insane and other women need to know about.

[10:26] Amy Sherman: Past, I need that ASAP. Okay.

[10:31] Katie Chandler: I have to say did you say you were 43? Is that how old you are? I was floored. Because you look like you are in your early 30s. Without a shadow of a doubt. Right Amy?

[10:43] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I was very shocked too.

[10:47] Katie Chandler: Those are the peptides then. Hard at work.

[10:50] Amy Sherman: Let me ask you a question just backing up to like when you were saying you were taking testosterone, who did you go to and why did they prescribe that? Like was it a regular doctor, a functional doctor? Just because I feel like and Katie and I talk about this all the time. There's this whole world of this more holistic well being that's super popular but there's not a lot of resources and there's functional doctors, there's regular doctors. Sometimes the regular doctors don't really believe in it. Like how did you establish your first step and then from there?

[11:19] Katy Whalen: Yeah, I mean you're so right and it's frustrating that some of these things are so hard to come by and unfortunately so many doctors aren't trained in this, and it's not their thing. And we even have patients that will come to us and be like, well, is my doctor confused or blah, blah, blah. So it is tricky. So for me, there's a little bit more of a backstory because my husband actually went through his own issues first with his hormones. While we were struggling with our fertility, we had a lot of stress and his testosterone tanked, and it was so bad. He had no libido and we didn't know what it was. And I thought, oh, it's me. I'm gaining weight. You're not attracted to me. We found out through his own health journey that it was his four months, so he started getting the help first. So I saw him, his struggles and his change, and then he actually started the men's side of our company first before Joy. That's called blokes. And I was able to then get treatment from the men's side of our company. That's when I was like, we need this for women. I was not planning on starting this. I was totally happy being in the newborn stages and not thinking about what my career would look like. And then I just 40% of our traffic on the men's side was actually women, so we were like, It needs to happen. But so that's how I was able to actually do it. Pretty quickly, my husband went through a couple of years of getting told that he was fine when he wasn't.

[12:56] Amy Sherman: And what doctor did he go to that determined it was his hormones? Because that's also, like, for men, probably even harder to find a doctor that would say that or identify that.

[13:09] Katy Whalen: Yeah, because they work in these ranges, these lab ranges that are the average person that goes in there with something wrong took a test, and that's where you are. And he was on the very low end of the average range of sick people, and it was fine. So it's really what we try to do is say, you know, how you can feel, how you're supposed to feel, and you really need to take control of your own journey, not get discouraged by a doctor that isn't trained in something that it is what it is. You have to take control of that.

[13:45] Katie Chandler: Men, I feel like, women, we've been told over hormonal health. Hormonal health, it's going to be a thing when you get older, it's going to be an issue. And I don't think men have as much of an awareness that they can experience it as well. And it's like they don't know that it's possible that that can happen to them sometimes. I think so. A lot of times, maybe they just go and deal with it and just think, I'm getting older just like so many women do, and that there's nothing that can be done about it. So I think it's amazing that you have this company for men as well.

[14:24] Katy Whalen: I think it's important for women to know that was my experience. My husband was like with no libido, he didn't really care because it wasn't an issue for him. It was me that was like, this is not working. So I think it's important for couples to both feel their best together and both kind of be on the same page with that because I know sex and marriage is a big issue. One of the top reasons people fight. Right?

[14:51] Katie Chandler: Right. Yeah. So true. Interesting. Okay so the peptide therapy, let's do a little bit of a deep dive because who would be a good candidate? I mean are you seeing women in their 30s that are needing peptide therapy as well or is it mostly just.

[15:10] Katy Whalen: As older age groups? I think anyone really interested in their health journey, their own health is a candidate. And certainly I wouldn't say a healthy 18 year old looking at peptides because it is something that levels decline with age. But I do think 30s mid thirty s and up is somewhere where people will really start to see some benefits. But it really depends. I think BPC 157 is like the Swiss army knife of peptides. It has a lot of uses and it's really great for people with autoimmune, people with chronic inflammation, gut health issues. It could be injected into the site if you are healing from some kind of a surgery, wound healing. So there's certain peptides that even younger people could benefit from.

[16:05] Katie Chandler: That one. Kind of like the society knife. Does that also address some of the other issues? Like is it kind of a broader spectrum where it'll hit the hormonal imbalances and do some good for your skin and hair and nails as well or does it get very specific when you start to target those things?

[16:27] Katy Whalen: I think it gets specific but I do think BPC is a great general one because it targets general healing, gut healing and inflammation. So obviously we know everything starts and ends in the gut. So I always thought I had good gut health and I wasn't really one I was interested in. But then just recently I started taking it because I realized that even if you're doing all the right things, all the toxins in the environment and just our basic lifestyle can really affect your gut. So I actually even though I feel like I have a decent gut health, I just started taking it because I feel like in your 40s things get a little wacky and beneficial for just inflammation.

[17:10] Katie Chandler: Sure.

[17:11] Amy Sherman: So I have a question, stupid question probably but how is the peptide ingested? Is it a shot? How does it work?

[17:20] Katy Whalen: Not stupid at all. So there's lots of options. There are definitely peptides that are injected and we use sub queue only. So it's super small needle, super easy to do and then there's peptides. So BPC comes in both actually an injection or a capsule, so you could do either. And there's different methods that probably we would recommend for different things. So if it's just general gut health, I would say take the capsule because it's absorbed better that way. But if it's actually like a wound or a soft tissue injury, then I would inject it. We have nasal sprays as well. There's one for mental clarity. That's a nasal spray. There's a skin cream that's just like a regular skin cream that goes on your skin at night. So there's lots of different ways applications for them.

[18:10] Katie Chandler: Interesting. And tell us about your team. You have a very impressive team of people at Joy. Are these the people that you go to that tell your client, this is the exact one that you're going to benefit from and you should be taking it this way? How does that work when someone wants to start with Joy?

[18:30] Katy Whalen: Yeah, one of our co founders, Dr. JC. Fulkers, he's kind of the petty guru, and he comes from a more functional medicine background and can tell you all the sciency things. So he's kind of the head of our peptide program. And then we have providers that you'll talk to during your Zoom call that a lot of them are on all these peptides and know them too. And then we have some medical advisors as well on our team. Dr. Melissa Loewski has been treating women and men. And then I'm super excited because I've been fan Darling over Dr. Amy Hillen for a while, and she actually just decided to join us as a medical advisor.

[19:16] Amy Sherman: Oh, amazing. Yeah.

[19:18] Katy Whalen: So excited about that one. We do have some great people on our team.

[19:23] Amy Sherman: I know you said you're based in Nashville. Is it a physical location or is it virtual? How does it work?

[19:29] Katy Whalen: Well, virtual right now, I think we've talked about in the future having some stores and some pop ups, which would be super fun. But right now we have our hands full. So, yeah, we're virtual. We do everything, all our visits via Zoom. And yeah, we're licensed in all 50 states, so it makes it easy.

[19:47] Amy Sherman: That's amazing. Okay, so our listeners can actually get a consultation with a doctor you just mentioned and then if they wanted to continue is it prescription or does it work?

[19:58] Katy Whalen: Prescription based?

[19:59] Amy Sherman: All prescription.

[20:00] Katy Whalen: It's a health history. Everyone has to fill out just to cover all the bases and then figure out what's going on with your goals, what's your symptoms, and then your therapy shipped right to your door.

[20:12] Katie Chandler: And what is insurance? Does insurance come into play? No coverage. Is it out of pocket?

[20:18] Katy Whalen: It is, yeah. Unfortunately, healthcare does not want to pay for. Right.

[20:28] Katie Chandler: What's the price point?

[20:29] Amy Sherman: I'm curious.

[20:31] Katy Whalen: It varies depending on which peptide. I would say average. So I have a face cream, and then I also do the growth hormone releasing have, and I think those are right around 200 each for a month supply and then our weight loss peptide is probably our most expensive and that is, you know, depending on dosage, could be 250 or 300 a month.

[21:00] Katie Chandler: Okay, got it.

[21:01] Amy Sherman: And then how long? And I'm sure it's very individual, but how long if someone was interested in doing peptide therapy, how long do you do it? Do you do it? Is it like you always do it or you do it until you feel better and then you do something else?

[21:14] Katy Whalen: Yeah, not up to you. You certainly don't have to be on it forever. It's something that you can just try see what's working for you. We actually recommend that you should cycle off every once in a while. Like I'll do mine for six months and then I'll take a month off and that kind of just helps you reset, also helps you figure out what's really working for you and kind of see the benefits that you're getting. But yeah, you can always try something else or just get off if it's something that you're not feeling is helpful.

[21:48] Katie Chandler: Tell us a little bit about NAD therapy because I have seen this at my wellness center where I get IB therapy infusions. Are you combining is NAD peptide or is it something different?

[22:05] Katy Whalen: It's not a peptide but it's technically a coenzyme.

[22:09] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[22:10] Katy Whalen: But we offer it and we think it's pretty cool.

[22:14] Katie Chandler: It's powerful. Right? And doing it in conjunction with the peptides probably does a lot for people.

[22:20] Katy Whalen: Yeah, it's certainly one you can try on its own too. So NAD is in every cell of our body and we need it to live and of course levels decline. But what it really mainly does is it helps with metabolism, it helps convert your food to energy and then it also protects our DNA integrity. So think of antiaging or think of disease prevention. So you can do it in an IV clinic? Through an IV. We send ours out as injections and it's kind of cool. It's one that you feel right away, you'll feel like a flush feeling and I like to kind of sit down and breathe and kind of relax and meditate for about 1015 minutes and I feel that freshness and you just have a little boost of energy.

[23:06] Katie Chandler: Nice.

[23:07] Amy Sherman: Yeah. I've heard a bunch of different podcasts and read a little bit about NAD and is that a more it seems to me from what I've heard and this could be completely wrong, but that it's like a more intensive treatment. Like, you only do it for, like, a short period of time, or no.

[23:23] Katy Whalen: I think when you're doing it with an IV, it's pretty intense. I think you have and I haven't done it that way, but I think you have to sit there and have you done it that way?

[23:32] Katie Chandler: Maybe I haven't, but it is very intense and you have to be monitored by a nurse when you do the IV. Way, and it takes a long time.

[23:42] Katy Whalen: It takes all day.

[23:44] Amy Sherman: I feel like that's what I've heard.

[23:46] Katy Whalen: That it can be uncomfortable. I think it's something that they really give you a lot of at that sitting. So what we do is we recommend weekly injections so you could do it at your home and it's just kind of 15 minutes of a flush feeling. So it's certainly a lot easier that way.

[24:05] Katie Chandler: More tolerable yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. So you're also doing HRT or hormone replacement therapy, or is the peptide considered HRT? I was looking at your content. Is that what it is?

[24:26] Katy Whalen: They're two separate things.

[24:27] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[24:28] Katy Whalen: Yeah, we do HRT. We believe in a hormones as being like, such a foundation. I mean, each hormone has its own benefit and function and they all need to be in the right levels. I always think of hormones as story of goldilocks. You don't want too little or too much of anything. You want it to be just right for your levels, which is a little bit different for everybody. But if one level gets thrown off, then you can really a lot of things off in your body. And I think for women especially, there's such a gap in you're done having your babies and you're in your forty s and who's caring for you now and what's like I just think I'm excited because I think there is a movement to change that and a lot of companies that are offering support. So I'm excited for that. But I think a lot more is needed.

[25:22] Katie Chandler: It's so true. Our health care system just kind of looks at post baby years, like, periodopausal. Menopausal, women is just like, all right, well, you're all on your own, go figure it out.

[25:32] Amy Sherman: Oh, you're getting older, that's what happens. You're not supposed to feel great, right?

[25:38] Katie Chandler: Of course we love our OB gens and they serve a massively great purpose, but once we get to this spot, they're like, say in our go find.

[25:49] Amy Sherman: Somebody, come in once a year for your Papsmear. There's no continuity.

[25:57] Katie Chandler: Do you do lab work and testing as well for your patients? You send them off, they get their labs done, and then your team looks at the results, et cetera?

[26:07] Katy Whalen: Yeah, prescribing labs. And certainly if you're thinking of a hormone, you definitely need to do some labs. And then we continue to monitor people on treatment with labs. So we have a partnership with a few different people. LabCorp is one of them, so it's easy if you have a LabCorp menu. We also partnered recently with Get Labs and they come send a mobile phonomist to your house. So that's pretty cool. For people that are in urban areas, that's a really great option for convenience. And then we also partnered with a company called Tesla, which is like a device that sits on your shoulder and can test your hormones as well. Something that you do at home and then send back.

[26:47] Amy Sherman: That's interesting.

[26:50] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's cool. Nice.

[26:52] Amy Sherman: I have a question about the hormones too. Do you see a lot of women taking hormone replacement and peptides at the same time? Or is it two kind of separate strategies?

[27:07] Katy Whalen: I mean, I do that, I believe in that for sure. If something is off with your hormones, then you should absolutely do that. And then peptides to me is just like icing on the cake. I think it really is woman dependent. I think there's still a lot of people that aren't educated on hormones, hormone therapy, or maybe dangerous, or think it's not natural to help your hormones. So I think that there's just different people who are looking for different things or have different comfort levels.

[27:39] Katie Chandler: Okay, I have a question that you may or may not know the answer to. We can edit it out easily, but have you heard of HMVs? Is that a peptide? Do you know? I've just recently started reading about HMB.

[27:52] Katy Whalen: HMV, I haven't, but I will definitely look that up.

[27:55] Katie Chandler: HMB as in boy. And it has something to do with leucine, which I think is an amino acid, and it helps with just muscle growth. And even if you're not training, it can help maintain muscle and prevent muscle waste as you're getting older. And then if you are working out and training, it helps build the muscle faster. Which, as you were saying earlier, part of the problem with aging that is a massive culprit is the fact that we lose muscle mass over time. And that is so important in maintaining all of your overall health, metabolism, hormonal, health, everything. So I've just recently been looking into that.

[28:40] Katy Whalen: Yeah, I'll ask JC about that. Personally, I haven't heard of it, but for sure I'm interested in all the things muscle related because that's certainly part of the key for vitality, sort of.

[28:52] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I was just listening yesterday to something about aminos, which again, I don't know the difference between aminos and peptides. I guess it's all related, but there was, like, some sort of amino someone was talking about who was getting older and saying that by taking this, it helped them. They said, like which is so true when you're working out a lot and you feel really toned, and then you take a break for like, a week, the older you get, all of a sudden you feel like, wait, I looked good a week ago, and then what happened to my muscles? Where to go, where'd it go? So by taking aminos, I guess, or peptides can help you sort of maintain that muscle mass a little bit better than was it, what, creatine?

[29:34] Katy Whalen: Maybe? I think that's an amino acid.

[29:37] Amy Sherman: I don't know, I can't remember. I have to look. It was a podcast I was listening to and it was a company that did more like amino kind of supplements, I'm not really sure, but basically. The same idea as Katie was saying, it helps to keep that muscle mass or your muscle more together than like totally.

[29:55] Katy Whalen: Yes.

[29:57] Katie Chandler: Funny sidebar. Total sidebar. But something interesting that I just learned about muscle growth and building muscle and exercising, there's like a mind muscle connection. And when you're training muscles because I'm trying to train my glutes, apparently my tush is a little on the flatter side. If your brain isn't attached to the muscle that you're exercising, it doesn't fire as much and you can be totally wasting your time. So I just learned recently that there's, like, with the bands for your legs exercises before you start to train and lift weights, that you do, like, two minutes of exercises with bands contracting that muscle and really focusing on the fact that you're contracting that muscle to help then activate the muscle so that all the work you're putting into it is actually efficient. And it can be a total waste of time if you don't have the mind muscle connection. Isn't that just the most bizarre thing you've ever heard? It seems like pseudoscience and absurd, but.

[31:02] Katy Whalen: It'S a fact that makes total sense to me, actually. I bar method or bar class. I feel like it wasn't until I have also felt like my butt has never been very muscley, a little bit flat. And I feel like I recently started I'll do some bar classes and it's really a mental thing. I'll have to think about contrasting that and I think it's exactly right. I feel like, okay, now I know how to use that muscle.

[31:33] Katie Chandler: So you get the results.

[31:35] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it's so true. I do a lot of Melissa with health, and in her workouts, she always says, like, if you're doing an arm thing, I was doing it yesterday, and she's like, be intentional. She like, think about what you're exercising right now. When you think about it, it sort of like fires it up because you're right, if you're not thinking about it or really intentionally targeting that muscle, it's just like you're doing the whole thing, but you don't get in that little area, which is so similar yes. To the Pilates and bar classes. And you're like, oh, that's the muscle. That's the little thing I never knew I had. So yeah, it's really interesting.

[32:09] Katy Whalen: Totally. Yeah, that makes sense.

[32:12] Katie Chandler: All right, well, before we get into our rep session, I would love for you to just let us know where our listeners can find you because I know they're going to be super interested in working with Joy and yourself.

[32:23] Katy Whalen: Yeah, you know what? We hang out on IG a lot, so would love to for you to follow us there. It's Joy women's Wellness. And Joy is spelled. Joi and then online, if you want.

[32:35] Katie Chandler: To consult, we are Choosejoy Co. Nice. Yes.

[32:40] Amy Sherman: And then if someone wants to consult, they just sign up and it's a zoom. Like the initial meetings. A zoom.

[32:45] Katy Whalen: Yes. Consults are just 25 and then just sign up online and then we'll have a patient coordinator call you to set that up and set up your labs if a lab is needed.

[32:54] Katie Chandler: That's great.

[32:55] Katy Whalen: What did you say?

[32:56] Amy Sherman: You mean I said I will be doing that. Okay. So I feel like there's so many more things to go through with peptides. So we may need a part two at some point because I feel like Katie and I are just starting to learn about this area and I feel like it's this emerging I don't know what's the word?

[33:13] Katie Chandler: I want to get like cutting edge.

[33:14] Amy Sherman: Yeah, you hear about here and there, but I feel like it's going to be mainstream really soon. So thank you for all of this information. So get into our rough session. Quick answers, ready? What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Peptides.

[33:33] Katy Whalen: I call it my whole body antiaging. I do a growth hormone releasing peptide. I just sit on my tongue every morning. It dissolves and then I have a ghkcu face cream that I use on my skin.

[33:47] Katie Chandler: Nice. This growth hormone that you use, is that HCG?

[33:58] Katy Whalen: H is growth hormone, but we're not actually putting growth hormone. It's actually growth hormone releasing peptide. So it's a peptide that tells your body to release more of its own growth hormone.

[34:11] Katie Chandler: Okay. I'm very interested in that one sidebar. All right. This next one we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber is pinged you. They're five minutes away. What are you going to do? Your Holy Grail to get it together and getting that Uber on time.

[34:27] Katy Whalen: I'm a little bit hippy. I'm fine going makeup free sometimes, but I absolutely need my moisturizer when I get out of the shower. I'm addicted to that. So I have like a dry oil, a little recipe that I use. Quickly throw that on all over. And then I also need a hat. I'm a hat girl. I love my Chemo Savvy sets and hats. And I feel like you can get away with a lot more makeup free days and bad hair days if you.

[34:55] Katie Chandler: Can throw on a hat and you're in the right town for that hat, I tell you. We love a good hat in Nashville.

[35:04] Amy Sherman: Okay. And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

[35:09] Katy Whalen: I'm always trying to work on that and it's a balance of getting in enough self care and spending quality time with my family.

[35:19] Katie Chandler: Yeah, amen to that. Right?

[35:22] Katy Whalen: Good answer.

[35:23] Amy Sherman: And you'll be spending quality time with your daughter today in America.

[35:27] Katie Chandler: That's going to be so fun.

[35:29] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[35:30] Katie Chandler: Well, Katie, thank you so much for being here. This is a very exciting conversation and we can't wait to learn more about it. And we have to have you back on for part two. So thanks for being here with us. And Amy, you're going to close us out with a mantra and I think it's a mantra from Joy.

[35:44] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I found two quotes on Joy's Instagram that I love, so I'm going to say them both. So the first one is really funny. FYI menopause is not the end. That's what we should be telling our doctors. That's one. And then the other one I liked was just it's a quote that you have on the little billboard. There's a peptide for that, which I think is so cute, like a good saying. Because next time I'm feeling a certain way, I'm just katie and I are going to be like, there's a peptide for that.

[36:13] Katy Whalen: Peptide for that.

[36:14] Katie Chandler: We might need to call up Katie wayland.

[36:16] Katy Whalen: Exactly.

[36:18] Amy Sherman: Thank you so much for being on the show and enjoy your day with your daughter and we'd love to have you back anytime. Thanks again.

[36:25] Katy Whalen: Thank you so much.

[36:26] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know some one that would we've sherrod and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye..

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Episode 84 - Breaking Down The Brow With Celebrity EyeBrow Artist Daria Kruchinina

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 84:

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we are here today with the eyebrow guru expert. Darya cucina, none I probably said her last name wrong, but it's all good. She's telling me that I said, well, so okay, I'm feeling good. We're so excited to talk to you today, Daria, because we haven't talked about this topic on the show. And eyebrows is such a thing that we don't really know too much about. So we're excited to learn from you. For our listeners, Daria is an award winning makeup a natural brow artist. She began her career in Russia, where she worked with top models and prestige, fashion and beauty brands. Seeking international experience. Daria took her talents to New York in 2017, and quickly made her mark as a freelancer collaborating with beauty icons like Natalia vindman Jacoba, which I can't even say you have editorial work appearing in numerous publications worldwide, including Vogue, UK, Vogue, China, Vogue, Russia, and many, many more. And I know that you work with many, many stylists, many celebrities, etc, etc. So we are super excited to have your expertise in the show to tell us about all things. Eyebrows. Welcome to the show, Daria.

Unknown: 1:47

Thank you ladies appreciate having me here on your podcast. I'm really, really excited to share all my experience and knowledge with you today.

Katie: 1:57

We're excited to hear it. So before we get into all of our millions of questions, we just want to take a step back and do our nirvana of the week was just really just something that gave us joy this week, made us take a pause, put a little smile on our face, and I will take it to Katy to let us know what hers was this. Thanks. I was just thinking about that. And I think it was over the just the past weekend like The Last Sunday we took the kids to the pumpkin patch. And you know, we're on the east coast and in New England, and Westport is like it's like you're in a Lifetime movie. Like it's such quintessential fall it you know, it's my favorite season after being here for a year. It's really beautiful, the foliage and everything. And then the pumpkin patches. It was just beautiful. So just see the kids running around and picking out their pumpkins and having apple cider donuts and there was a little petting like farm situation. And while it was very cute and festive and for the season, it was just Yeah, it was yummy. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:56

That's such a good one. I haven't done that in a long time. I love those pumpkin patches, though. It's so like, yeah. So I would say we hits a really nice milestone here at Nirvana sisters we have published well now it's probably over 7677, maybe even 80 episodes by the time this airs. So Katie and I are running so quickly building this podcast in business. And it was just nice to kind of get a notification of like you hit a milestone you've posted 75 podcasts. It was just cool. We've been working really hard over the last two years and our two year anniversary is almost coming up. So that was a little something that brought me joy this week. What about you, Daria,

Unknown: 3:37

I really enjoy hearing what you ladies did. It's amazing. makes me so happy. So my highlight of the past week was meeting with my friends who I didn't see for seven years. Oh my gosh. They live in London. I right now based in New York. And they had a flight here. So we spent amazing three or four nights out just exploring the city and I took days off. So yeah,

Katie Chandler: 4:03

yeah, that's great. fills your soul and love it. Alright, well, let's kick it off. First of all, let's start at the basics. Tell us about what you do and your specialty of natural eyebrows.

Daria: 4:19

So honestly, when I say when I try to explain to my new clients or to people who are not in the beauty field, even for those who honestly in the beauty field, what I specifically do

Unknown: 4:33

it takes me like a couple minutes to get through it because I work on the natural eyebrows, which means that I provide shape tint walks lamination and sometimes threading. But the thing that makes me very different from any other eyebrow specialist is the technique that I use for shaping which is which I call signature. I brush shape. It is made with a tweezers. So I basically tweeze eyebrows but not just around how we usually do it. But I open the eyebrow and look through the hair and remove the hair that we don't need that this hair usually either too old, too thick or trimmed before. So instead of just plucking around the eyebrows and creating the typical thing like the shape, I go in the eyebrow and create feathered natural looking eyebrows.

Katie Chandler: 5:33

Oh yeah, that's interesting, because I have been really curious about how this new eyebrow trend of like the longer fuller more grown out. And I've tried to do that but it's so uneven and kind of wack and I assume I probably need you to get in there and take out the ones that don't make sense in order for that to happen. Right?

Unknown: 5:57

Yes, I would say there are so many different techniques come into the market. And sometimes it makes sense. Sometimes it completely does not make any sense like we have this trans like bleaching eyebrows every year right so mad gala or I don't know the autumn trends, we keep seeing different things happening. But I believe to have a good shape to have a really clean eyebrows and I talking about clean not on your skin but in your eyebrows. This is what makes any face brighter. You have lifted kind of eyes, open eyes brightened look and you just look fresh. This is how this is how I'm trying to explain these things to my man clients straight guys clients constantly are afraid that it will look too feminine or too manicured. So it takes it takes long time. It takes long explanations showing like examples, but it's definitely worth it. Nice.

Amy: 7:03

Okay, so how does one at home get natural looking brows or how do they sort of maintain maybe in between brow visits, but I know like Katie was saying there's been like this emphasis on this natural brow and how do you what do you recommend for people at home like looking to keep their eyebrows in check

Unknown: 7:27

for my clients in between appointments I recommend to moisturize eyebrows. So basically there are a couple things that you can use couple of treatments and ointments that you can apply and it will provide the moisturize for your eyebrows because we apply a lot of masks and conditioner to our hair right but my eyebrows and eyelashes, that's true. So I would say just keep it moisture noirish do not trim I'm very very against of trimming eyebrows. And I don't know just normal maintenance, I would say monthly or like for some people once in two months appointments are enough, but nothing difficult. If my clients prefer to have some eyebrows routine, like makeup routine, I would say I would provide the specific list and I usually send the eyebrows guide to all my clients or people who are interested and I'm very happy to share with you like people who listen to the podcast for free the guide How to maintain what to use and it's all divided into shapes, colors and like you know options, pencils, gels, clear gels,

Katie Chandler: 8:42

a lot of options.

Unknown: 8:45

So I'm I'm really happy to share

Katie Chandler: 8:47

nice I love that.

Amy: 8:48

And then how did you were mentioning some of the things to do to keep your eyebrows moisturize and condition what what type of products would you recommend for that?

Unknown: 9:01

I recommend to use natural product it is called tuya This is the brand is step three after elimination but what exactly this product does is that it has a little bit of oils and it is wheat oil. It has argan oil but it is not heavy. So the problem with moisturizing eyebrows and a lot of people get misunderstanding that you cannot apply 100% oil like castor oil or flaxseed oil or peach oil on your eyebrows because it's simply not going into the hair. It's not going to the cortex it's not it's not doing anything it just sitting on the top like you know

Amy: 9:48

so castor oil does not make your paragraphs I've been using no one.

Unknown: 9:56

And what is really important about all More than 100% oils, it could have the consequences as allergies. So for example, this is what I, this is what I was through when I just started to grow my eyebrows back because I started my career with horrible experience myself. And this is how I became eyebrows artists, I was like, let's let's do it myself, no one can do that I will do it. And it was a big misunderstanding in the beautiful that if you apply castor oil or our argan oil or flaxseed oil, your eyebrows will grow or eyelashes? No, it will not. And second, when you apply those oils for your lashes, and you go to slip, it's naturally because we have the gravitation, right, it's still works. It's got it can go to your eyes, or very close to Derma. And could clog your pores on the on the line where the lashes grow and could cause allergies in the future. So my recommendation for someone who would like to grow eyebrows or eyelashes is to moisturize to use serums during the morning or the daytime instead of the nighttime. And do not use 100% oils. Just use professional things. Like

Amy: 11:21

the product that you were just talking about is something that could help with hair growth.

Unknown: 11:25

It I wouldn't be honest, it's not providing the hair growth. I didn't care for the hair that you already have. Got it any serum any, any product that promises you, I don't know 200% Extreme lashes. Yes, it will help for the amount of time you use in this product. As soon as you're going to stop, your hair will be normal. What is not great about this option of choosing serums that trying to help you to grow things, like grow your hair is that we have a specific amount of follicles in our eyebrows and eyelashes during the life. And if you try to speed up this process, there is the chance that by the age of 70 or 80, you will have less eyelashes or eyebrows naturally because you already overstimulated your growth.

Katie Chandler: 12:20

Oh, that's interesting.

Amy: 12:24

So then what do you do if you want to grow your eyebrows? And you don't want to use one of those serums Do you just keep them conditioned and

Unknown: 12:31

you keep your eyebrows and eyelashes condition and you do massage? So when I when I'm talking about massage, you know this single single brushes from Sephora or like single mascara wands. Yeah, so you just brush it up. Really like you need to feel it on your skin and then just like, like, push get

Amy: 12:50

in there. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 12:51

So you brush it up, you brush it in a diagonal way and you brush it down, like two minutes each eyebrow and just massage in a circular way. Because this is what we do with the hair. we brush our hair, we go to treatments, we do all this stuff. And we need to remember about our eyelashes and eyebrows. It

Katie Chandler: 13:12

seems like it would feel good to or to do that. Right?

Unknown: 13:15

Because it's the stimulation for you. Like literally you stimulate. Yeah, nature.

Amy: 13:21

Right. So that helps to stimulate the follicles which will then grow. Okay, good

Katie Chandler: 13:25

to know, I want to know how someone figures out the perfect shape eyebrow for their face. I've seen formulas before and I'm curious what yours is?

Amy: 13:35

The formula? Yeah. Is that correct? No. Okay. All right, let's hear it. Katie's doing Katie's doing the point up from the nose and then the angle like what you always see. Yeah.

Katie Chandler: 13:49

Take a pencil. Right?

Unknown: 13:52

I haven't. Yeah. So the typical formula that we can find somewhere on I don't know social media platforms all over the internet. And I believe those pictures honestly, they've been there forever, like from five to 1000 Yes, maximum. So it's like this one, you put it to your nose, you do the arch and you do the end of your eyebrow. The problem with this method is first that you cannot measure it correctly. Because if you a little bit tilted here, right, it could be here my orange could be on this point. But if I move it could be here also. So how could you know and it depends where you look. If you look straight, you will have one point a point. I mean the arch and when you slightly move your eyes and you need to measure it somehow you need to put the mark like it could be not even over the time we have this interest in fashion and styles. So sometimes it's a little bit wider. It's it could be a little bit more straight, a little bit more arch. So honestly So, what I say to my clients is that we need to see what the person has. If you have amazing straight eyebrows, what's the point trying to get extreme there is no point because there will be not enough hair on the top of the eyebrow and we would remove too much in the bottom of the eyebrow. So instead of trying to be like you know, this trendy eyebrows shapes for 2020 20 We're just trying to maintain what we have naturally and make it look as good

Katie Chandler: 15:33

as possible. I like that I have always kind of liked the straighter eyebrow on myself and then I also thought there's all these trends right that you were just saying that what's this trend were like now they're like going up and everybody thinks it makes you look really lifted. What is that called? There's a name for it.

Unknown: 15:50

I honestly, it's been forever, like okay, not forever. For the last three years we have this trend when people started to work tapes to make up also, I see this everywhere. Like people were tapes and stuff like you see my normal eyebrows and then they put the tape and it's gone like this right? Where's the eyebrow is going a little bit up so you have the more straight eyebrow less arch. But at the same time, it looks a little bit odd

Katie Chandler: 16:23

you know whose eyebrows now jelly and naturally it's like the Kendall Kendall Jenner I think her she has like very so that's what I saw on social media and the other one that I that I really do love that I think is very chic and looks great on everyone is like it just kind of like grown out and just like super, to your point super, super natural, but like thicker and fuller and longer. So brow is what it's called. So brow.

Unknown: 16:46

No, no, no, I didn't think this is the same. So I would say the the first one that you mentioned, like grown out supernatural one. It is referred to models environment. So every time I do talk, top models, eyebrows, I never remove too much hair underneath. I'm never creating the like, no, the full shape will live in some options for the makeup artist who is going to work on set. But so brow look is actually elimination.

Katie Chandler: 17:21

Okay?

Unknown: 17:23

So people who I believe don't want to do elimination, they create, they can create the same effect with a soul bro. And so bro originally was the name of the brand, but not but now it's like, you know, any brand could say so bro. Okay. And

Amy: 17:40

yeah, I don't even know what lamination is. I've heard of what it is.

Unknown: 17:45

So let me nation is the camera. This is the conversation I had with my morning client. She scheduled everything like everything, all the possible options, and she's my first time client. And I'm usually very straightforward with first time clients. I'm like, Hey, what is the goal? How do you want your eyebrows to look like? What is? How do you want to maintain? Do you want to take any? Any possible like new things? Do you want to add something to your beauty routine? She was like, no, no, no, no, no, I want like easy maintenance. And I want elimination. But elimination is not is maintenance because elimination is a chemical process, two step process for your eyebrows. With the first step we apply the chemical that helps basically to ruin the hair structure. Because in that case, we can move it we can make it flexible. And if someone has eyebrows that going down or too much sideways, we can straight it up, but not 90 degrees, like this way maybe like 65 degrees, right 45 Even. So we're the first step we just ruin the hairs structure. Unfortunately it is what it is. It's not a spa procedure. It's not wrist restoration or something. And with the second step, we apply the ointment that helps to keep the structure of the hair back and to provide the normal hair pH balance. And with a third step, which is the same two year or ointment. It's like the oily the oily third step ointment that helps to give it moisture because lamination dries the hair. So in New York specifically, I'm not sure about other states, but in New York specifically in the area where I work. I see a lot of ladies coming to me with burnt eyebrows. And when I see burned, it's literally Ginger, Ginger red color because the hair is burned from the inside. And in couple of months it's starting to fall off why this happens again, because lamination is not a spa procedure, it's not. Treatment elimination is a chemical chemical procedure. So I believe elimination should be done with a professional who understands the timing, the specifics of your scheme, the specifics of your eyebrows, and the look that you want to keep and maintain. Because it requires extra moisture for your eyebrows, it requires the client to purchase this ointment, and actually to apply it every like once in a three four days. And coming back to the soul bro. So the soap brow they help this is like the actual soap, you brush, you go through your eyebrows backwards first like this way, and then you brush it normally like in the in the direction of your hair growth. It helps to create delamination look for a day, it definitely needs to be washed. In the end of the day, people cannot sleep with this because the soap is drying your hair structure. So the hair is getting a little bit more fragile, dry. And I would say people should use if they want this lamination look but don't want to use the chemical they can use so brow for maybe like twice a week, but not often.

Amy: 21:28

And it is the elimination help like does it.

Unknown: 21:31

But elimination helps to create thickness illusion, or to redirect the hair. So for example, for my clients who have really odd hair growth, for example, from this side, sometimes hair grow in this way, we can use lamination but only like 40 degrees or 50 degrees. Because if you will swap the hair 180 or even 90 degrees, it's going to just fall off. Because the air cannot do it redirected this much. There is a certain proportion that we can use and can apply.

Katie Chandler: 22:06

So that's more distinct and get the eyebrows to go the way that you want them to go. It's not so much like a look of fashion style a trend like the soap brow is correct me if I'm wrong as the soap or other trend where it just looks kind of like oily and in place and long. And like sticking up words and everything. Yeah, I really liked that look. I've been trying to figure out how to.

Unknown: 22:32

So brow helps to achieve this over laminated. And when I say over laminated because good lamination should not should not look super slick, it means that the hair was burned, and it's eventually going to fall in couple months. So yeah, so brow can help to create lamination look without like with minimum damage. Okay, with minimum that so

Amy: 22:57

you mentioned something earlier about cutting brows. So you're saying that's not a good thing to do. So my eyebrows are curly, like I feel like they grow and they get curly and I haven't cut them in a really long time. But I used to go to people that would like thread or wax or whatever. And then they'd like cut up here just so they were like tight. Why is not bad.

Unknown: 23:20

I mean, it's a very serious condition. So this is why most of my clients keep they just traveling from I have clients coming from Florida from LA, like at least once in three months. So this is the circle that you in the circle called trim, and trim. Why? So your eyebrows are getting curly, right? It bothers you it's getting long, you cannot style it, you go to the place, and they brush it up entering. And in three, four weeks you like oh my god, it's again curly, right? Yeah, I didn't know what to do with this. So this is the circle how to break the circle. Why first? I will explain why your eyebrows are getting curling? Probably naturally. You have a little bit wavy hair. Yeah. But what's going on with eyebrows that are trimmed? We have the hair that okay, it's I know it will sound very basic basic information, but we all know this. So this is the skin layer, right? We have the hair growing from the skin. The follicle is based in the skin. So it's growing long. You don't like it, you trim it. So the hair keep growing from from the skin right from the follicle. But the tip is already flat. It's not pointed, it's flat. And the hair is getting sicker because it cannot naturally fall off. Because the hair that we lose in it's fallen off because of the weight or because The damage so the hair is getting thicker and thicker, and because of that it's starting to grow. So instead of trimming again, I would recommend to do good shape. That means slowly removing trimmed hair. And I may be trimmed twice in my life for someone because it was, you know, just one specific hair or like the hair that I cannot remove because it's creating the base and the structure of the eyebrow. And it should be trimmed in the diagonal way not to not flat. Yeah, like, if someone is brushing and doing this shouldn't be trimmed like this. It should be trimmed with a specific scissors like

Amy: 25:45

this. Yeah. Bunny. My eyebrows, like, over the pandemic, I just like didn't get them done. And I actually think by accident, they got better because they got longer. Because they haven't done anything with them. And they're almost like, I mean, I still need to get them shaped but I don't really feel the need to cut them anymore because they're just like kinda there but I think I accidentally did a good thing by not cutting them.

Unknown: 26:11

I mean, that's great. And honestly, most of the people in our industry in eyebrows industry all over the world, they still trim eyebrows because it's very easy fix

Amy: 26:23

right brush,

Unknown: 26:24

all like from from the beginning to the end, you just brush and you trim. That's easy for the professional, but I prefer a different approach because I believe that we're here to create long term beauty not just easy fix for all of us. And I know that it takes about a year to regrow all the trimmed hair in your eyebrows. regrow I mean still have an appointment once in a month and a half or like a month. Because you need to remove this hair you need an the new hair thing good thing not trimmed. So it takes kinda a year to regrow trimmed eyebrows but it's definitely worth it.

Katie Chandler: 27:12

What do you think about all of the different I mean I know you prefer to pluck but threading I've never had threading done have you had threading Jenny me? I don't really

Amy: 27:21

Yeah, that's usually what I do. Is it

Katie Chandler: 27:23

is it better than waxing if you know if somebody like can't tolerate the plucking what would you suggest

Unknown: 27:32

sometimes I do spreading for my clients but only for people who have allergies for walks and this is obvious if my client has the allergy for natural or artificial walks we definitely try to clean the baby fours at least here on the top of the eyebrows by spreading but the thing with the threading is I do not like to create the shape with a thread like the you know traditional way how in India they do or in the south of Russia for example, we have a huge community that are very into threading they all have this thinner eyebrow look which was was in a trance long time ago but not anymore. And with a specific and with this specific signature eyebrow shape that I do, it's not enough used I still need to go through the eyebrow and block some hair that we don't need. And some of my clients are really like crying, the cursing but in the end they all very happy and I'm like okay okay just do whatever you want you want to cry I want to talk all this bad things okay, that's fine. In the end of the appointment everyone is happy

Amy: 28:50

and I'm sure so you do only plucking you don't do waxing or you do you do wax?

Unknown: 28:55

I do I do like sometimes when I see that we need to remove that pause or it would just look much cleaner. But if my client has some condition like if the skin is irritated or too dry, or I don't know it's changing of the season and I see it's not going to be good. We skipping waxing. Yeah.

Amy: 29:19

And is I don't know if this was like an old like Wyldstyle but isn't plucking supposed to be the best isn't waxing like can't think if this is probably just like hearsay and not true but can't wax and give you like more wrinkles than plucking. I feel like I heard that back in the day. Did you ever hear that one? And I've always plucked like I've never I mean I've waxed once in a while but I usually pluck or do threading or something.

Unknown: 29:41

I honestly think it depends what kind of wax is used and applied and how it is removed because that's the thing with the thread and actually what I do not like about threading and the hard works that removed with this, you know the paper stripes?

Amy: 29:58

Yeah, yeah,

Unknown: 29:59

I did not Like when they need to hold it and to stretch the skin, right? Yeah. So this is the thing was threading if you would calculate, like, if you would start threading at 14, and you thread till 60. Right? How many times you stretch your eyes and when you do blowing it up? Yeah, you need to stick like good point.

Katie Chandler: 30:22

What do you think about tenting? Eyebrow tinting? I've done it once.

Unknown: 30:27

I mean, if it's, if it is a correct tint color, that's good. If the tint could report both horrible anime

Katie Chandler: 30:37

I, that's when I first had it done. I was like, Whoa, and it was way too much. But now when I look back at pictures on it, I actually thought it looked nice because I've blonde eyebrows and it felt filled them out. This whole conversation is reminding me of something I did as a child to my eyebrows. And I have to tell you guys, I was reading like a Cosmo or glamour and there was just talking all about plucking. And I was maybe eight or nine. And I was too afraid to pluck so I shaped them. And then I accidentally like they just because I like accidentally went too far. And so like I shaved one and so then I had to shave the other one.

Amy: 31:14

Oh my God, that's awful. We need to see a picture of that I

Katie Chandler: 31:17

actually have a school it was right around school photo time. So actually, but I was with my family and I had cousins in town. And I was just waiting for like somebody to call it out. I didn't want to tell my mom. And one of my cousins said, Oh my God, what happened to your eyebrows? And then I was

Amy: 31:35

oh my god, I never knew that story. That's so funny. So how long did they take to guard ever? And

Katie Chandler: 31:39

I still feel like yeah, I feel like my eyebrows are so so thin. And it's probably because I shaved them.

Unknown: 31:47

It happened to me too. I was like 14 or 15. And I remember my mom coming back from work and I plucked and somehow I had only this area and nothing after the art now. Oh my god. I looked like this, you know, like, like a crazy person. Daria, it was it will never grow back. What did you do? And I started to cry. I burst into tears. So it took me like, half a year to grow back.

Amy: 32:17

Oh my god. So speaking of dying eyebrows in the same realm, what what do you think of eyelash extensions?

Unknown: 32:25

Oh, honestly, I don't have anything against eyelash extensions, because in most cases, right now it's done in the right way. It looks natural, at least like the lash artists that I'm following. It looks natural and good. The only problem I think in the industry right now is lash elimination, and lash burm, which I see as a big problem. I mean, again, I live in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. And I have no idea. I have no idea who is doing that. But we have couples specialists around who who applied too much. And for too long, the lamination process. So what's happening, I see clients who step into my office, and they come for example for eyebrows appointment. But I could see that the elimination didn't go well for eyelashes, because they see the scary to do

Amy: 33:23

on your eyeliner. So close to your eye. It's scary,

Unknown: 33:27

I would say in the way that it is super close to your eyes, you need to understand how to maintain this thing because there is a special silicone pad that they apply. And then they brush up with the like glue and the first step ointment, your lashes up to hold it to like ruin first, the texture of your eyelashes and then to fix it back. So what's happening what I see and this is really, really a big problem in the industry right now. People who provide the service cannot apply the silicone pad actually close to the growth of your lash line. So it creates this L shape in the end of the procedure. And what client would have is the difficulty to apply mascara and this L shape thing. It will create the option or the potential potential option to break your lashes because it's getting very fragile in this degree. Because our hair normally doesn't grow like this. We have natural curl, but when it's buckling this and basically broken it could just fell off.

Katie Chandler: 34:49

Yeah, yeah. Very well. I am going to come and see you and get my eyebrows done really soon. So I need

Amy: 34:57

and can you put it on camera Katie? Watch because When I come to New York, I'm gonna go to you too. I used to have this great person in New York a bazillion years ago and I just haven't found anyone good since so we'll be visiting. Yes. Welcome

Unknown: 35:08

ladies.

Amy: 35:10

You're in New York City. You're Are you in the city or in Williamsburg?

Unknown: 35:15

I'm in Williamsburg. But it is one stop from the city.

Amy: 35:18

Yeah, no, I used to live there. That's great. And I know you also know like all the makeup and beauty trends for the fall. So give us a little give us a little insight into what you're seeing. That's like the new or the, you know, some fun makeup things that you're seeing.

Unknown: 35:35

Um, honestly, I am this type of person who believes that everything is already created. So we have kind of the same tiles over the years. And as always, during the autumn season. It is reds, red, it could be red lipstick, a little bit more red. I would say burgundy color for your check. Cheeks. Blush maybe. And my thing my favorite thing is to apply the same blush for your lips for the blush area and a little bit on your eyelids. It looks really fresh and it looks you know like normal. It's not off. Another big trend in the industry right now for the makeup is liners. But colorful liners. So it is not boring. Okay, not boring, but it's not just classy black. But dark brown. Again, burgundy Gray, and maybe some I don't know reds.

Amy: 36:39

Do you mean liner or your eye?

Unknown: 36:41

Yeah, why not? My I just colorful liners. And no makeup makeup is always every year in high demand. So yeah, it's pretty good options. We have

Amy: 36:55

this I like the idea of doing a fun liner because it's true. Like I feel like I always put on black but like to have like a burgundy or something would be fun.

Unknown: 37:02

Try dark dark brown or brown. That's

Katie Chandler: 37:06

what I stopped using black so long ago because for whatever reason it always I always felt like it looked too harsh. And then so I switched really dark brown and it just kind of blends better. But yeah, soften the no Minca Yeah, yes,

Amy: 37:21

that's like my goal. Always the no makeup makeup.

Katie Chandler: 37:26

Daria, thank you so much for being with us. This was so fun. So tell our listeners where they can find you. Do you have what's your you know, your Instagram handle? We'll have it all in our show notes as well.

Unknown: 37:38

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here and talking and have this amazing conversation. I'm happy to share my experience. So I I'm always on Instagram or like email, but I have the office in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. So people can stop by the office to make an appointment.

Amy: 38:01

And is your Instagram at Daria Creech. I'm not even gonna

Unknown: 38:05

doubt this is Christina dot prod. Kru c h i n i n a that prom.

Amy: 38:12

Okay, we'll put it in our show notes too. And you have a website as well which will lead people to Okay, so let's do a quick wrap session. Okay, you ready? What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Unknown: 38:24

Sleep well eat well be yourself. This is my wellness hack. Yeah, I love those. Good one.

Katie Chandler: 38:31

The next next one we caught our five minute flow you just got out of the shower and Uber is paying do they're fine five minutes away What are you going to do to get into that Uber on time.

Unknown: 38:43

So I honestly I hope that by that time you have the moisturizer on so it's kind of like prepped, you know, if not just have moisturizer in your arms and apply it to the to the lines so like fine lines, massage lines, you just applying it in the way you lift in your face. The same with a quick BB cream or my favorite is Chanel foundation. It's super thin, really nice. And I would say a little bit of blush, as I said on the cheekbones on the lips a little bit on the eyelid. Same with my favorite product. This is Charlotte Tilbury filter. It's kind of highlighter, but it looks supernatural. I don't know I would I think you can squeeze in mascara application and cool week Bro. Bro gel application. Yeah, that will be the thing. Nice.

Amy: 39:42

And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Unknown: 39:45

I started to meditate. Two months ago I started meditation. And I feel it really helps. You know? It really helps. Yeah.

Amy: 39:55

Do you listen to guided meditation or do you do your own meditation

Unknown: 40:00

I do the breath work in the morning. Yeah, I go to a local yoga studio. So that helps me to be in the moment and to be in the local community at the same time. Yeah, well,

Katie Chandler: 40:13

thank you so much for being here. This this is such a fun conversation. And now I'm going to be obsessing over my eyebrows until I see which I'm going to be in the city next Friday. So

Amy: 40:21

oh my God, I need to like do a brush up I need to need to judge

Katie Chandler: 40:28

Alright, so before we let you go, we'll wrap with a little mantra. This is just kind of a cute month since we've been talking all things beautiful. Letting go is hard, but being free is beautiful. So kind of inverted that says eyebrows. Yeah. Maybe we should do that when I literally in my brain inverted a couple words, so it made more sense.

Amy: 40:52

What do you mean?

Katie Chandler: 40:53

Did I just I said it's Friday.

Amy: 41:00

It's Friday. Okay. The quote is, it's Friday and thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 82: Fascia Health And Kinesthetic Intelligence- Revolutionizing Your Wellness Routine With Lauren Roxburgh (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 82.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:00

We are so excited for you to dive into this episode with Lauren Roxborough learning all about fascia. Make sure you listen until the end where we are going to be talking about a giveaway we're doing with Lauren. Enjoy the episode and stay tuned till the end Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: 0:33

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:43

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we are here with Lauren rocks Bora, who's dubbed the body whisperer. She is a world renowned board certified Structural Integration bodywork practitioner, you've probably seen her on Instagram, doing all of her amazing fascia workouts which we're here to you're all about. She is a Pilates Pro and author and educator specializing in fascia health and mind body alignment. Lowe is the co founder of aligned life studio, which is a virtual platform that offers a new paradigm in health and fitness, which we're super excited to hear about. And she has a unique focus on fascial wellness designed to help people align and strengthen their bodies shed physical and emotional weight while enhancing resilience and confidence. So welcome to the show. Lauren, we're so excited to talk to you.

Unknown: 1:33

Oh my gosh, you guys, Amy. And Katie, thank you so much for having me. It's so fun to do this kind of thing. So I'm excited to dive in.

Amy: 1:41

As to before we start off, we just want to do a Nirvana moment around the week and talk about something that brought us joy this week. So I'll kick it to Katy to talk about your Nirvana this week. All right.

Katie Chandler: 1:53

Thanks, Amy. What Yes, Lauren, we're so excited to talk to you. I have so many great questions for you. But before we do, I think mine Irvine, I was kind of going back and forth on whether or not I wanted to share this because it's personal. And it's probably a little too early to share it. But I thought it was a really special moment. So I'm going back to work as a model, which I once was many years ago. And I signed with my agency the other day. So that was exciting. That was a fun moment. So yeah, that's it.

Amy: 2:22

That's super exciting. You scared me for a second when you said I haven't taught and when I say you're pregnant.

Unknown: 2:28

That's so exciting, though. Wow.

Katie Chandler: 2:32

Thank you. And the reason why I'm like, kind of keeping it close to the chest is because like, who knows how it's gonna pan out. We'll see if the work starts rolling in. But you know, I'm gonna go back and give it a go. It's a science experiment. And it'll be fun. Beautiful. That's

Amy: 2:47

amazing. So proudly, so

Katie Chandler: 2:48

what about you?

Amy: 2:49

So well, my younger so I have two boys, Lauren, and my younger son just turned 13. And he had his bar mitzvah this weekend, this past weekend. So it was an incredible weekend with family and friends. He did so good. I was so proud of him. It's so hard, I think to get up there and like, read through, you know, read the Torah and talk about what your Bar Mitzvah means to you. It's just, you know, it's it's a big challenge. And I think it's really given him a lot of confidence to get through it. And just He did such a great job. And we had such a fun party for him. And just, it was just really, really special. And then we're taking him to Israel as a part to which cage is joining us for doing a big family trip and a couple of weeks. So future nirvana. But um, yeah, so it was just a really fun time and wonderful, amazing. We can sell oh my god go on this week. Yeah. And that's a transition in life. That's beautiful. Big one. Yeah. What about you, Lauren?

Unknown: 3:49

would be it's actually that we're you know, living in the South Island of New Zealand and Spring has sprung and it is just absolutely stunning. Here. The sun is shining. The grass is green. The flowers are blooming we planted our veggie garden and so it's starting to really blossom like we can already eat from the garden. And to me that's Nirvana at its greatest, lifeforce energy, connecting with mother nature and being present and watching the growth happen every day and putting love into it and doing my sound bowls over it. And you know, watching the sun, just open it up. So it's really beautiful to see nature in action for me. I love that. Yeah,

Katie Chandler: 4:30

that's amazing. And we should say, Lauren is coming into coming to us all the way from New Zealand and she is in the coolest space right now. What did you call it? What did you say this space was before? Give a name for it.

Unknown: 4:41

This is a geodesic dome. It's my healing dome where I do all of my programming, record all my videos and webinars and podcasts. So it's a great little sanctuary for me away from the noise of like home and kids and all of that so it's my little escape hatch.

Katie Chandler: 4:59

Yeah.

Amy: 5:00

Looks like oh, is it like, is it? Is it like near your house? Or is it somewhere you go.

Unknown: 5:05

So it's uh, we're on about an acre of land. And so it's like a I don't know, maybe about a 20 step from our deck to, like, gosh, garden and I can see the lake in the mountains and everything. So it's,

Amy: 5:18

it's very nice.

Unknown: 5:19

It's pretty awesome. didn't ever think we'd be living here, but we're making the most of it. So

Amy: 5:25

yeah, it's beautiful for our listeners will, will, will, will show some pictures of Lauren's amazing, beautiful space your your aligned life. mini studio over there.

Katie Chandler: 5:35

Exactly. All right. So that's okay. Do we have any questions to ask? And Lauren, you I know. You cover so many amazing things in regards to health and wellness and alignment and balance and but we are super interested in your very interesting perspective. And like, it's nothing I've ever really heard of before. It's like a very specialized thing. And that's fascia. And I would love for you to just help us better understand help our listeners, some of our listeners have probably never even heard the word. What is fascia? Why is it important? Why are we why should we be taking care of it? Why do you specialize on it?

Unknown: 6:24

Great questions. So it's really an interesting one, I never really thought I would just, you know, stumble upon this system of the body. But when I was it was about in 2008, I was going through a really tough time in my life. And I discovered the work of Ida Rolf, which is called Structural Integration. And it's the thing that I'm board certified in and essentially what it is is Ida Rolf discovered fascia in the 1960s. I mean, the ancient wisdoms like iron beta and Chinese medicine have known about it for ages. But it was the first time kind of Western medicine was acknowledging the system in the body. And she was actually in the 1960s. Either off was a rocket scientists studying the human body and gravity. And she was really curious. And she studied osteopathy. She looked into all the ancient wisdoms and yoga and all kinds of different like Reiki and healing modalities. And she decided to create a system, a systematic approach to bring the body into better structural alignment. So her whole idea was that when your body is functioning well, and relating to gravity, well, then the healing energy within you will just basically pulse through you and kind of fix and cure everything. So I found it in 2009. And I started getting really curious about it, I had a session myself with my teacher. And I just got off the table. And I felt like I had had 10 years of talk therapy and 10 years of physical therapy in 190 minute session. So how to learn this, like I and I was going through so much I was going through divorce from my ex husband, my mother was very sick with cancer, I was going through a traumatic thing in my work life, I was being embezzled, all of these things were happening, I call it my perfect storm. But I found this work. And I did the work. And I signed up and I did the two year program. And it just like I found my purpose. So I realized that when I was younger, in high school, I was never really that great at school, like writing and all of those things and math, but what I figured out is that I had something else called kinesthetic intelligence. And so that means basically, that you're really good at feeling, feeling through your hands or feeling through your heart or feeling on all of those levels. And so what's exciting to me about fascia is that it is now being called the sixth sense. So if you think about like the nose is to smelling, the ears are to hearing the skin is to touch the tongue is to taste the eyes are to sight the fascia is to feeling and so I stumbled upon this amazing system in the body. And I realized that it was my way of really learning about the body through like learning about the anatomy, learning about energy learning about structural imbalances, when people have, you know, issues within the body like compensations, postural problems, trauma, tension, all these things that layer up into the body, they create this buildup within the fascial system. So it's really an interesting question, because it's quite a large answer. And it's sort of very comprehensive. So I had to kind of do the work myself, go through my own, you know, turning my own pain into purpose, and then realizing that this was actually my gift and I found my gift through are going through the mud, you know, like the lotus flower rising through the mud. And so now I feel super lucky and blessed to be able to share this with more and more people on the planet because now especially we've had so much more trauma, collective trauma in our world and every human on the planet have had some sort of extreme trauma in the last few years, with all of the grief of everything we've felt from the world, and also all the transitions and transformations we've all had to go through. So right now, there's never been a better time to get to know your fascia, which is considered the sensory organ. So as we know, we think of when we can feel feeling is healing. So feeling is the beginning to creating the shift within which helps create the shift on the planet. So it's a really powerful part of the body that science in the last few years has just recently create had been had the chance to use new technology, new cameras, to see fascia in a living body. So for years, we always thought, oh, yeah, fascia, it's a scaffold teen it's holding you up and gravity, some people would call it the organ of shape and form. It's this webbing, you know, structure are holding you up. It's Think of it like, you know, the white part on chicken. So that's like the fascia. But what we didn't realize until the last few years is that it's not just holding us up. It's actually enabling cell communication. It's touching every single cell of your entire body. It's like a living tapestry intertwining every system of the body, all 12 systems. So the lymphatic system, the nervous system, the endocrine system, the organs, all of it, it's, it's just absolutely incredible. So it's so exciting to me, and even when you're looking at it in the spiritual world, it's also the way consciousness is transmitted through us. So it's how we move energy. So it's how the brain talks to the gut, the heart talks to the brain is through the fascia, the connective tissue, and what it's made out of is collagen and elastin. And it also has a water shell around it. And the water is what creates the electricity in the body. So how cool is that? A bash shell, like cytoskeleton, like a soft skeleton, but it also transmits energy and information. It's the biological fabric that keeps us elastic, but also helps the energy and the information and the nutrients pulls through us. So cool.

Katie Chandler: 12:40

I never know that it was that complex. I always, of course, I had no idea but I always just thought it was it was something that was related to your muscles. And it was that sound. So I thought so it Yeah. Is it? Does it live? course through your

Unknown: 12:55

muscles? No, no, no, that's great. Actually, this is what I always thought too. And this is how I wrote about it for years, because I didn't know the next, you know, kind of evolution of what we're able to see now under the microscope and through science and case studies. So I always thought like, oh, yeah, it's just it's superficial fascia. So it lives right underneath your skin, and it wraps around your muscles individually and also wraps around the joints. But there's what we're realizing now and what we've found is that it does that but it also weaves deeper into this into the deeper they call it deep fascia. So their superficial fascia that lives underneath the skin, that's the one we want to have plump, and hydrated. That gives us that radiance and flow and juiciness on the skin. Because when we have good healthy collagen, full fascia that's, you know, that's moving and juicing itself and staying hydrated, then our skin gets plumped up. But then we have it weaving through, it's inside the lining of our guts. It's also around each individual organ, the heart, the lungs, the bladder, the kidneys, the adrenals, it's everywhere. And it's it's even in the scalp and the face. So it's wrapped around our whole body as like a kind of an Saran wrapping. Under The Skin. Some people call it the second skin but also goes deeper into that kind of weaving that tapestry and through the entire body, touching every cell and every system. It's fascinating.

Amy: 14:24

So it is fascinating. And I'm sure there could be like a whole discussion about this. But to break it down for the listeners in terms of like what they can do at home, like do you go to get a treatment done? Or can you do it yourself with tools? Like how does one start like I want to start work? I don't know what the word is working out my fashion tomorrow, like what do I do? Where do

Unknown: 14:46

we start? I know I would say, well, fashion is my love language and it's called me communicating with you. You know this, it's the origin of sense and feeling. So it's always talking to you. It's speaking to You through sensations it speaking to you through your phone, the pulse of your heart, the speed of your breath, butterflies in your belly, the weight of the world on the shoulders, pain, gut feelings, intuition, all of the sensations, maybe even like arousal, contraction, expansion. All of those things are messages from your fascia from your sensory organ. And so how do we start working with it, we have to, we have to listen to it. So we need to not numb we need to realize that pain is a message. Reframing the relationship to pain as a way to understand our body, learn the language and master the language of our body. That's I mean the language of our body the secret language of our body is coming from our fascia. So when we do that, we have the opportunity to really heal and to transform on so many levels. So the things that I recommend it's funny being here in New Zealand, I had these total epiphanies because I used to go and have the bodywork done that I was also learned and coming here There isn't anyone that does it because there's only 3000 people in the world that are actually trained in this type of bodywork. So if you're in big cities usually can find someone we're in a very small town village and I so I thought well, okay, I guess I'm gonna have to be my own body worker. So I'm I have designed these self bodywork tools for people to like, open their diaphragm open their lower back there QL their feet, their jaw, the cranium, all the different areas. So I'm actually creating a whole program around this to do the self bodywork. But for people to get started, it's very easy. You lay on a foam roller, you're addressing your fascia right away. What I love that is it's helping you drop into the parasympathetic state of the nervous system, which is about rest, digest and heal. Everyone's talking about this right now. But when we get on the roller, we're addressing the fascial system, which is helping our body go into healing mode. So rolling, rebounding breathwork going in an infrared sauna is phenomenal for your fascia, going and doing earthing getting natural sunlight in the morning is one of my big rituals. It's like it's my one minute morning ritual, get my coffee, walk out on the grass stand on the grass barefoot or some kind of dirt barefoot, let the natural light come into my eyes and just fill me up with you know, my my, my body with light and actually thinking of the fascia, the you know, the the webbing the collagen network, and then the water that's wrapped around it. So the sun is coming in to kind of turn on the electricity in the fascia. So recharging your body battery, and then the earth energy is doing the same. So those are phenomenal. And then just getting up and doing some really, they're called like, whole body stretches. So moving your body in different directions of like multi plane work. So twisting, inverting, walking, any kind of deep. I don't necessarily think of yoga as fascia opening, of course it is addressing it. But we have a different way to do it, where it's more like you're thinking of stretching all the way from your foot to the back of your head. Because there's 12 planes of fascia. It turns out that those planes of fascia, so I'll give you an example of one, the backplane goes from the bottom of your feet up through the back of your legs up through your back and that to the top of your head. So that's the back line. It turns out that these fascial planes relate and correlate to the 12 acupuncture meridians. So we're addressing our meridians and our chi, when we're doing stuff with the fascia. So thinking of the body, not as spot treating it, but thinking of it more holistically and systematically. So if I do anything to my feet, I know I'm addressing my head and neck and jaw, and vice versa. So those kinds of things are very powerful ways. It's like looking at it with x ray vision. And, you know, working your body in the different planes of movement, getting yourself upside down doing inversions, any kind of twisting, even if it's just going for a walk and channeling your inner Giselle with more transverse motion breathwork, self bodywork rolling, all of those things are phenomenal ways. Everything is in the Align life studio where I put all of everything that I've learned, I just experiment things that have actually worked for me and my friends in my community and my clients. I put in the in the line life studio, like for instance using that squishy ball. And like I haven't, it's back there in the frame. But it's a squishy ball and you use it to roll your belly out and you roll your organs out and that is addressing the vagus nerve, it's flushing the lymph in the belly in the gut, then you have more access to your core when you're doing like stuff to actually strengthen. So my whole perspective of like fitness has evolved because what I now know is that it's not about doing a million reps or Are you spending an entire hour in the gym or in the studio? It's actually about how do you use your body throughout your day. It's like how we use our body throughout our day is how our body will be shaped. So if we're hunched over the whole time, and we never kind of undo that, then we're going to be shaped like that. You see people walking down the street looking like that. That's the fascia gluing itself, becoming thick, dehydrated and brittle. So it's fine. If we need to hunch and be on our computers and tax and all of that. That's cool. It's like that's not going away. But we need to undo it on the daily and bring that juice back in and that hydration and that suppleness. So just like even turning on some music and doing some somatic dance or jumping around on the grass, or the sand or the beach, getting fresh air, all of these things are addressing the fascia, and

Amy: 20:49

how I see them many rebounder behind you. So that's a good way to loosen things up. So absolutely.

Unknown: 20:58

Movement medicine.

Amy: 21:00

Yes. You know, it's funny that you're saying this, I just My older son, who's 15 has been having back pain for like, like, all year, he wrestles, and we went to like an orthopedic guy. And he was like, Yeah, you need some physical therapy to stretch out and stretch out those areas. And he did it. But then he wasn't doing it at home. Of course, like he's, you know, teenagers not like doing his stretches. But we just went back last week, because his back still hurts. Did an x ray, everything's fine, thank God, but he's like, your hamstrings are so tight. You need to do these stretches. And I'm sure the stretches address the fascia and everything else. But he's like, you have to do these stretches like twice a day to loosen up your hamstrings, which is why your back is sore up. So it was like my husband and for him to hear that from some I've been telling him that but it was good for him to hear that from somebody else. Yeah. But you know, it's all it's all connected. Do you

Unknown: 21:57

really is

Katie Chandler: 22:00

why I was just gonna ask why is it so painful when I get on the foam roller? And I do my legs? Like, is it something that if the more I do it, the easier it gets?

Unknown: 22:11

Yes. So it usually has to do with the firmness of the roller as well. I prefer a more softer like it's a medium density roller because you can use it just to work out and do the Pilates moves and use it for rolling. But what we're now finding is a lot more of the research in Germany and through the really through the anatomy world is that we shouldn't be doing aggressive hard rolling because it's especially because what we're doing when we're rolling is addressing the superficial fascia. So we want to make sure that we're not digging into the bone but we're actually trying to get into that matrix that lays underneath the skin and above the muscle. So great question. The more you do it the less it hurts 100% So start and just go really slow. Use your breath you can also warm up sometimes I recommend warming up with like dry brushing to get the limp going before you do your rolling and then finishing with a five or 10 minute bounce on the rebounder to really flush so your dry rushing gets the limbs going the rolling gets the fascial matrix clearing kind of like flushing the congestion or the the scar tissue or the what it was like calling it the other day that Grizzle the gristle in the tissue and then you're bouncing which will help your body again flush everything out like really get that lymph going and then your body will flush whatever has been broken down from the toxins in the tissues as well because a lot of times we don't realize it but within that scar tissue is is a pool of congestion or toxic buildup. So when we when we flush that through then your body has to eliminate it so you want to support it through that and I recommend also doing the sauna too as part of that sequence of people are going to it sounds like a lot and if you can't if you don't have a sauna although the higher dose sauna blankets are pretty amazing now and making it more accessible for people and more affordable. My like protocol with our community is dry brush Foam Roll Bounce and then finish with a sweat and it sounds like a lot you only need to do each of them for like five or 10 minutes and then you've got this amazing holistic healing protocol.

Amy: 24:18

I love to do that.

Katie Chandler: 24:20

You do it every day.

Unknown: 24:22

I do I really do. And I'm a big fan of 8020 rule like be and I'm all about like detox to retox like I'm really about balance I don't I don't like to over drink or anything but I do like have a glass of wine in the evening and have my coffee in the morning and then I do that and I feel so clear. And so vibrant. And so kind of like it takes this film away like it fully is the the clutter of the mind and it flushes the clutter of the body. It's like an inner exfoliation if you want to think about it like that. Like we always exfoliate our face and we floss our teeth. Doing that to ourselves. In our tissues from the inside out, that's what our bodies need more than ever speaking of the immune system, that's another system that's addressed. Whenever we work with our fascia, we're boosting our immunity, because we're getting the white blood cells pumping through our body better so phenomenal for preventing getting sick. I need

Katie Chandler: 25:18

to get some of your tools because I have like the foam roller from hell and I, I've just started dry brushing daily, I'm, yeah, it's too firm, I need to get some of as Lauren for the listener, she she has an entire array of her of her own tools that she sells. And I also saw that you're you are rolling out your fascia with a small ball as well, not just the large foam rollers. So there's a variety of tools that people can use, right.

Unknown: 25:47

Yeah, and the reason I did that I originally came out with my first book taller, slimmer, younger, which was about the big 36 inch roller because it was the one I was using with all my pro athletes and my celebrities. And then I you know, I was doing the bodywork with them and the workouts and I realized like there's this the deeper layers of the fascia as well. So the the bigger roller is good for the superficial fascia. The deeper I mean, the smaller tools are better for the deeper fascia. Like I was saying earlier, you can get into the belly and really flush the gut out lymphatic Lee but also from a tissue perspective. And then the Infinity roller, which is like two little nodules, kind of like two tennis balls and a sock, which is what you know, if you've ever been to physical therapy, you know that they use that for like your shoulder blades or your feet. So I just thought you know what I was over the whole thing slipping away. So I created a tool, it's a little bit softer than tennis balls. And then you use that for your feet. For a lot of places where the muscles attach to the joints that you can't get to with the bigger the bigger roller. So that's why I have multiple tools based on the two books that I wrote. And one was about superficial and the other one was about going a little bit deeper.

Amy: 26:54

Yeah, I was gonna say I am I have those balls that I would like if my back gets tight on like put it in a sock and like rub it against the wall. But yeah, it goes all over the place. You can't like exactly get it but it's very hard. Yeah, speaking to your point about like, is something like that those athletic ones too hard.

Unknown: 27:12

You know, this isn't what you're seeing question and I'm happy you brought it up. Because I with all the new research, it's quite important to be saying out loud right now that the aggression with the fascia is not where we're going. We do not like shoving and you know, I won't use the word but like we we want to give the fascia love, we want to think of it like sending your body like these love notes, through working with the fascia and tuning in and listening aggression with fascia will just build up more scar tissue in the long run and will also make your nervous system go into fight or flight, which is the exact opposite of what we're trying to do. Which is why I think my method or philosophy is so much more of a feminine energy thing. That doesn't mean it's just for women, it means it's just more nurturing, more loving, more supportive. Those harder balls in the new science is saying no, we do not want to be doing that we want to go slow, we want to breathe, we want to feel like almost like a memory foam is kind of cradling the tissue and then wringing it out, you know, you see a lot of them attic stuff, it's quite light. So you know we're working with the limp, but then we're going to deeper layer as well with the fascia so softer and more present, really feeling into it and listening and figuring out where the blockages are. So it's not about getting on a roller or doing body rolling. fascial work is not about like rushing through anything. It's about really tuning in words and feeling again, it's really

Amy: 28:45

and then on your website do you have sort of like you're saying this like sessions on if I wanted to do a 10 minute whatever in the morning to like, loosen out just the whole body like you have things like that

Unknown: 28:58

got like the rise and shine on the roller. We've got all kinds of like seven minute fascia flows now because we're finding those that New York Times article based on a lot of great research that people were getting insane benefits from working out for like seven minutes a day. I know I remember something about Mary when they were like seven minute ABS or seconds. I'm like that reminded right. I love that movie. I love her. But anyway, so it's just one of those things where we realize like, also people only have so much time. So my thing is now not overwhelm people with like an hour of content at one time. Put it in the morning, if you can do one seven minute thing in the morning, and then do like a five minute thing before bed you will sleep better and deeper or you'll go into rest and digest and heal more efficiently. You know, you can tap into that vagus nerve and those kinds of things. So, spending and also thinking of your body throughout the day listening to the sensations and remember you take 26,000 breaths a day, you know, I mean, it's like every breath you take is an opportunity Unity to create shift or release or metabolize stress better as well. And every step we take, we take 10,000 steps a day without even going for like a long walk, every step we take is an opportunity to kind of move and strengthen your body I think people forget also that just sitting burns calories, you know, moving throughout your day, your your body is working really hard, you don't have to go and like burn 600 calories on the treadmill. That's an old belief system that actually doesn't make sense. So how can we make our bodies more efficient? How can we support all of our systems, metabolism, digestion, you know, endocrine system, the hormones, why not this fascia is touching all of those systems. So use it for enhancing every part of you.

Katie Chandler: 30:50

It's really revolutionising a way of self care. I feel like because you're saying that, for so many years, it's been all about like, work harder, you know, push through, you have to sweat, you have to do these massive workouts to get the type of body that you want. And what you're saying is, if you slow everything down, and you do it in a nurturing way, and you're taking care of your body, and you're releasing the stress that we all put on ourselves, that things will start to, hopefully, potentially work in which they should, right and heal themselves, which will give us results.

Unknown: 31:26

That's it. Yeah, you're rebooting, you're resetting. Everyone has the same muscle musculature underneath all of the layers of stress and armor and fear and unworthiness. We all have it under there. So a lot of times we put excess weight on as padding to protect us from the outside world, whether that's from trauma, toxins, tension, fears, whatever it is. So if we can realize that all of those messages are there to help us learn and grow and evolve the weight, whether it's physical or emotional weight, will, it will actually melt away and I know it sounds like magic. But when you work with the fascial, you people realize it's not the fat, it's the fascia. I mean, it's the weakened connective tissue, and it's the congestion that happens that builds up the kind of areas that we end up holding extra weight, or even thickness or density in that armor. It's really powerful. It is a whole different. It's a new paradigm, new paradigm shift.

Katie Chandler: 32:27

It sounds like it. It's very exciting. Now I would be remissed. And I think some of my, some of our listeners wouldn't be too pleased if we didn't ask about cellulite. Because I know we have all you know, we've anytime I've heard of fascia, I've thought that it had to do with rolling that out. So I don't know if that is true or not or what's up with that?

Unknown: 32:48

You know what, I love this question too. And there's quite a bit of information out in the world now about fascia and fascia blasting for cellulite. And thing is every woman is going to have some sort of cellulite and maybe there's like 2% of the world of women that don't naturally and that's probably has to do with hormones or genetics. So we all are going to have a version of it. But what it is, is it's essentially weakened connective tissue so that means that the collagen has broken down the elastin has broken down. So the best things we can do to regenerate our connective tissue and you know, reduce cellulite are getting the lymphatic system going so flushing the toxins through but also strengthening the actual webbing of the tissue. So creating more of that collagen and that's why I created a whole thing called fascia foods. We have recipes on this. There's specific things like color, I mean, like a bone broth and vitamin C, all kinds of you know, you need zinc and copper, vitamin C like certain minerals, magnesium that will help regenerate and strengthen the collagen. So also supplementing with collagen. If you have the right collagen can help as well. But drybrushing the same sequence that I recommended as well you know, the sweating and getting that moving, but also you can do something called body wash WA, which is a little bit different than the way I see fascia blasting, which I know I mean the Kardashians got fascia blasting on the map, which is good because that puts fascia in the mainstream media which I'm happy about. But I feel like again, it's more about using a tool to be more soothing and smoothing and loving rather than blasting. So I recommend using a body guasha tool, there's one that I'm actually coming out with it's like a mushroom I call it combing out the tangles of your tissues. So after the shower with the body oil I created this called the body elixir and so you put the oil on after you're hot and then you scrub yourself or you you know you basically comb out the tangles of your tissues. That is phenomenal for even crepey skin it can really help reduce crepey skin like that we start to see in the arms as we get older, around the hips. In inner thighs in the stomach, especially after having babies and your your tissue has, you know, expanded so much, or C sections where you have scar tissue. All of those things are really helpful in helping regenerate the collagen. So whenever we're working with the fascia, I think it's just really important to think of like, don't go against it, but go with it. And it's similar to dry brushing, you want to go in the direction of your heart, you may have certain areas where you take that body wash while and you scrub a little bit, but then you're always flushing it toward the heart to flush you know the toxins out and regenerate the tissue. But the other really important piece for cellulite is obviously hydration, and building musculature and tone. And that's where my method is a little different than other foam rolling methods out there. Because we do a lot of this opening and creating the space and the hydration. But we're also building strength from my Pilates background. So we're building that sustainable, elongated balance strength. That's what gives you that beautiful, graceful physique that everybody loves.

Katie Chandler: 36:05

I love Pilates. Oh

Amy: 36:06

is the guasha and the dry brush. Do they serve similar purposes or is the dry brush more like external and the guasha gets a little bit deeper.

Unknown: 36:13

You got it. You nailed it. Yeah, so the and the dry brush you want to do when you're dry before you shower. And then you write a warm and you can do some stretches in the shower and open things up. And then you slather yourself with this amazing oil that's super clean and has an olive oil base has Arnica in it and hemp seed oil, all of these in beautiful scent. And then you kind of can do affirmations while you do the body wash wha so you're really making it a ritual, it only takes like maybe two or three minutes. I mean, like all we're all so busy, like but if I can find like two or three minutes throughout the day, these little pockets or Windows, then at the end of the day, I've done an hour because I've done like two minutes here and five minutes there and a little bit of breath work and maybe a little sweat, you know, then I've actually done accumulation of an hour, but it didn't feel like it. And I've enjoyed every moment of it too.

Amy: 37:02

Yeah. And do you think? Is it better to do the foam roll part in the morning or at night? Or does it not matter?

Unknown: 37:08

I mean, I prefer if you have to choose doing it in the morning, because when you get on the roller, you're turning on something called proprioception. And that's awakening your body's relationship to the environment to gravity to balance all of those things. So if you have that on for the rest of your day, you're gonna also be able to be strengthening your muscles just throughout your day in a better way. So people not a lot, when should I roll before I work out? Or should I do it after you always want to roll it out before you work it out? Because you're you're bringing in the hydration, the blood circulation, the awareness, the proprioception, so all of those things are very helpful, not just in your workout, but in your life. So when you're waking up things and rolling out, you can do it before you go for a hike or a run, you will have more flexibility, more range of motion where you'll prevent injuries. So beautiful way to start the day. Yeah,

Amy: 38:05

yeah, I used to, I had a trainer for a few years. And we always foam roll in the beginning for like 510 minutes. And it made a huge difference. And she introduced me to those ball things. And she had this other thing it was sort of like, I don't know, it was like the same material as the small balls would have like a stick with two kind of wheels at the end. And I would do my feet on that I'd never done anything like that before it was crazy. Because my body would like shift, she'd be like, Oh, you're right, shoulders higher. And then I would she would like to help me do it on my feet. And then I all of a sudden would be like my heart felt flat or to the ground. It was amazing. So that's

Unknown: 38:41

what you're what you're feeling is that that's the sensory organs. So whenever people do one side of the body, and then you get them to walk up, walk around and feel the difference, like whoa, I feel lighter, you're actually you are feeling lighter, because you're you've actually like literally like scrubbed away whatever was in the way so you you do your legs feel lighter. Like let's say you're gonna go do pilates and you're like, Oh, my hamstrings are really tight. I'm gonna try to do my, you know, inverted core work or whatever stomach series and Pilates. If your tissues really tight like you were saying your son, his tissue is really tight, his legs will actually feel heavier. So by freeing up density and releasing the tension in the tissue, but also in the joints, and really lubricating yourself and feeling that sense of lightness, you'll be able to hold your legs up more efficiently. You won't have to use your lower back or your hip flexors, you'll actually be using your core. So it makes your body way more functionally, like biomechanically more efficient as well. That's why the athletes love it.

Amy: 39:41

Yeah, it makes sense. I was in a really good cadence with it and I got I got away from it and every time I feel more, I always feel better. So I gotta you remind me I gotta get back into it every time I workout because it really does make a huge difference. I know I need

Unknown: 39:52

to add it into my routine, more benefits from whatever you're going to do next, but used for you know,

Katie Chandler: 39:59

that It's motivational. Yeah, that's very motivating. Well, before we get into our rap session with you, I would love to hear, let's hear about your community and the aligned life studios and everything that you have created where our listeners can find you most importantly,

Unknown: 40:14

yeah, so for the last few years, I guess it was in 2021, it really took off when everyone had to stay home, you know, for COVID, we had already ramped up and started the membership program. And so my commitment to the community is to basically go and it's like, I'm possessed by learning about fascia and, and body alignment and building graceful strength. And so I it's my mission, I and it's so fun, I get to serve with joy and love, it's so great. So I go out, and I learn and I study and I research and I bring it into the studio, and we film, you know, multiple times a year, depending on how inspired I'm feeling. And then I put everything that I love. And that really works into the aligned life studio membership community. And every month we give the community a new drop, we call it with new flows and sequences. And so we have, we actually have bar in there, now we have yoga, these are all, you know, with the through line of fascia, all the people that we brought in, have the education background and have the fashion world in there as well. And then we also have fashion foods, the meal plans and meal guides. It's a whole web app, which we'll be ramping up a lot more, because people always like, Well, okay, I'll do the fashion flows workouts, but how do I eat to support that. So we have all the different tools that you see behind me here, the rollers, and the rebounder, and the fascial flows just on the mat, too. And so I continue to keep putting stuff in there. And then we also have our free community called the aligned life collective. And that's where I go in and I do webinars, so that I like to say that that's where I go and educate and inspire. It's kind of like our Facebook, but off of actual, it's not on Facebook, it's like you know, people at Facebook groups, we've actually decided to get away from Facebook, because of all the drama, we wanted to do something where it's more focused, you're not getting ads sent to you. So it's very specific, anyone can join there, it's just called the Lyne life collective.com. And then the Align life studio is sort of my Netflix of wellness, it's where we put all of these great flows and sequences, and we're continuing to evolve and expand it, and I'm coming out with my certification next year as well, which is very exciting, it's I think

Amy: 42:27

we're gonna is exciting grit.

Unknown: 42:29

And it's going to be a very basic certification so that people don't necessarily need to teach it. But if they want to learn and go deeper and really embody this work, at a deeper level, they'll learn about the emotional components and the physical components. And it's really, it's going to be very exciting. So I'm excited for that.

Amy: 42:49

That's great. And we can't forget about your Instagram, because I'm always looking at your Instagram, it's so inspiring and relaxing. And I like see some of the exercises you do. So that's also a good resource for people to check out.

Unknown: 43:03

I love I've actually using going that one. I know in the beginning, I was like, oh, Instagram, it feels so intimidating. And now I'm actually loving it. So it's fun. It's a fun process.

Katie Chandler: 43:12

That's nice, congratulations, or it's all very

Amy: 43:15

bite size pieces of fascia work we can all get during the day. Well, that's awesome. Um, we're definitely going to be checking that out. And I love that there's a whole like, it sounds like library of content. So you can do the fascial work, but then you can do flows that are aligned to that. So you feel like it's all kind of Yeah, connected, which is nice.

Unknown: 43:34

And you can pick things like if you need lower back love, or you know, you're having issues with your feet, or you want to connect to your deeper core or your bloating or you're feeling like your gut is off or whatever. There's so many different ways to target different areas of the body, but then you can do total body ones as well. So I want to share with your community also that we're going to give you guys a code so that you guys can join a go and get 30% off so we'll be sharing that

Katie Chandler: 44:00

soon. That's amazing. It's so generous. Thank you.

Amy: 44:02

Oh god, that's so exciting. Yes, yeah, I think our listeners will love that and report back on all the things they're learning Yeah, about fashion as well if they feel Yes, all of us will be. Okay, so let's get into our rap session. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack besides fascia work?

Unknown: 44:22

Oh, I have been loving the using red light therapy for the face. So those led masks and there's a little one that I've been using as well called the solar wave and I love it in the morning after you know you sleep on your face and you're all squished and you have those sleep lines. And you take that red light and you can kind of do fascial work with it but also the red light the red light stimulates the collagen and it just it feels so good and it kind of wakes you up for the day. And I also think it really helps with the beauty aspect to

Amy: 44:53

it for the Naskh Do you have a good recommendation? I've been looking at those and there's so many of them.

Unknown: 44:58

I did a ton of free Search and I found the Dr. Grossman one. Yeah, three minutes. So you and it has there. Wow. And then the red and the blue light that you can combine together. So the red lights College and the blue lights for like antibacterial or breakouts, it's great for the teenagers that they're getting breakouts. But it's three minutes. So anyone can do this what was saying

Amy: 45:19

like and it's a mask, so you could walk and you could actually walk around you could film or all while you're wearing your mask.

Unknown: 45:25

Laundry, do your tax scrape.

Katie Chandler: 45:28

Alright, that next one, we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dry it off. And Uber has pinged you they're five minutes away. What are you gonna do to pull together and get in that Uber on time your holy grails your go? twos?

Unknown: 45:41

Whoo. Okay. Definitely, I probably wouldn't have time to do my body wash while in five minutes. So probably be mostly focused on the face. So I would put my vitamin C serum on because I'm obsessed with the vitamin C first than I do high colonic acid next. And then I do face oil, which I use my body lyxor as my face oil and so concealer that has you know, Hyrule onic acid and some cheeks and lips and mascara and brow and then I'm out.

Amy: 46:13

Good routine. Yeah. streamlined. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Unknown: 46:19

Hmm, I think all the things I've shared with you guys just Well, I think the big one is also perspective. So really shifting perspective on everything that's happening instead of to us, for us. So it's there to go through it, to learn from it to realize that even if it's collectively or you know, personally, or in our family, there's always a reason and sort of embracing that. And, and then I think getting better at metabolizing. The stress that comes, you know, comes from that experience too. So working with their fascia is the way personally for me and because I'm a kinesthetic learner and a feeler. That's how I move through things and let them go. So with compound with love,

Katie Chandler: 47:07

that's really beautifully said, I, we always wrap with a like a mantra or an affirmation. And there's one that I saw all over your Instagram page and on your site that and I'm gonna butcher it. So I'm hoping you, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Unknown: 47:23

It's not just about feeling better. It's about getting better at feeling. Feeling better. It's about getting better at feeling. Yes. So that one is on a couple of times. You're right. So it's really about not only Yeah, not only trying to just feel your best all the time, but just feel all of it, feel the pain, feel the discomfort because those are messages to create a shift or a change and listening and tuning in. And the other affirmation though is every little cell in my body is well, I use that one with my kids a lot to want anything like that.

Katie Chandler: 48:01

That's fantastic. All right. Well, thank you so much. For your work. Yeah, I'm

Unknown: 48:07

always doing like the era polls with them or like, the cranial stuff or the feet stuff. They love it. It's cute. That's great.

Katie Chandler: 48:15

That's $1 how to do it.

Amy: 48:16

Well, thank you so much for joining us today. This is such an invigorating conversation. I'm getting very motivated to get back into into the routine. So saying, This was awesome. Thank you so much.

Unknown: 48:27

Oh, it's my absolute pleasure. Thank you guys for having me. And I look forward to doing more in the future.

Amy: 48:35

Happy Holidays Nirvana sister's family. So I hope you enjoyed that episode with Lauren all about the fascia and you can incorporate some new routines as we mentioned, we have an exciting giveaway with Lauren we are going to be giving away three annual memberships to the Align life studio, as well as the travel roller all you need to do is follow Lauren Roxboro on Instagram, follow Nirvana sisters at Instagram and comment on our last post. You can tell us what you liked about the episode you could put an emoji anything really but that will enter you into our giveaway. We are so excited for you to enjoy the lion life happy holidays. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 80 - Goodbye DIY Health! Functional Medicine & Nutrition Talk With Lahana Vigliano, CEO Of Nuvitru Wellness, Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 80

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. I don't know because you tell, I think you know that hidden cause to bloat, I have a feeling you do. So tell us, what is it? What are some, you know, what's causing some of this split for all of us.

Lahana Vigliano: 0:43

So some things are simple, some things are just eating too fast. So you got to slow down, you'd be surprised how many times I have to tell people this, too, is also something simple up someone is eating, and they're constantly in a fight or flight. So they're eating on the go, they're eating in the car, there's two phases of your nervous system, there's sympathetic and parasympathetic. So there's your rest and digest, and there's your fight or flight. If you're in your fight or flight, you can't digest, a lot of people are in their fight or flight when they're trying to eat. So then they leave their meal and they're insanely bloated. Like of course, like you're not your digestive system is not working. So those are the simple things, the more intense things are usually the microbe. So having a parasite, which is also more common than you think bacterial imbalance, yeast overgrowth, those things can be happening and causing bloat. The other thing is problems digesting food, again, pretty common, having trouble digesting fats having double trouble digesting carbs and proteins. So that's why stool testing is helpful. Because we're looking at these enzymes, we're looking at fecal fat. So how much fat is in your stool, we're able to see like how you're digesting. So sometimes supplemental support is needed. But ideally, we don't want to rely on supplements forever, we want to make sure that we're optimizing just our gastric juices and enzymes naturally. And then food sensitivities. I'll say my last one, but I say this with like a huge asterisk, because I know it's super common. And everyone's testing, which is the conversation and of itself, of all the testing that I don't agree with that is 99% of tests on the market. But if you are being triggered by a lot of foods, yes, you can take out the foods temporarily. But most of the time, there's a root cause of why your body's reacting to the food. Usually it's something gut, so not being able to digest your food or bacteria, parasites, yeast, that is typically what's happening. So the solution isn't to avoid the food long term. It's to actually do a stool test and understand what's going on in your gut.

Unknown: 2:32

Yeah, that makes sense.

Amy: 2:34

That's so true, Katie, because we did an episode like in the beginning, and we both did a food sensitivity test by everlywell. Love your opinion. And it was so interesting, because I was like highly not highly but very sensitive to like, all these foods that I didn't even know. And I don't even know if it's true. And Katie had like a very limited amount. And I'm like, This is so weird. You're more sensitive to things than I am. So I was like, This is bizarre, but I don't know what your thoughts are on the I know, you probably that's probably a whole nother podcast all these at home tests. But

Unknown: 3:05

So real quick, I really well and 99% of that Mark market tests for IgG as a response to food sensitivities. Therefore, they assume that when IgG is elevated, inflammation occurs, that's what a food sensitivity is, it creates inflammation. Now, the thing is, is IgG is like the mailman. It doesn't always deliver inflammation as next step, it can just sometimes be elevated, because it's recognizing that you ate it and you eat it a lot. Now, food sensitivities can kind of happen if you overeat or eat something pretty consistently all the time. But that doesn't mean inflammation is the next step. There's also food sensitivities that are not immune globulin related, so it's totally missing those sensitivities. So I'm not a fan of IgG testing, because it just doesn't show the complete picture. It's kind of like my thyroid, like with TSH and the full thyroid panel, like it's just not enough information to actually take action on it. But again, you don't want to just be avoiding foods long term because some people that could be most foods that's not sustainable by any means. Is it true right?

Amy: 4:06

And would you then say the same thing sorry, Katie, the for the hormone tests like the like they have another one like that's like a women's health test. Is that the same thing? Are they not?

Unknown: 4:17

No, they're okay, but I know you brought up Dutch Dutch is the queen hands down like the best I do mine. I'm actually doing mine this month. I do mine every year. Because you get way more information. And then with the the women's health I think has estrogen and progesterone. And it just depends on your cycle because there's certain parts of your cycle that certain hormones are high so I just feel like it's It's okay. It's not the worst but like if you want to deep dive into hormones, do the Dutch Yeah, I want to do 100% Back to the bloating really quickly. Is it true that I've read this and tell us is it true that you make your digestive enzymes in your mouth and so that's why they essay, chew your food more. And don't drink water while eating because those digestive enzymes you like wash them out if you drink too much water. And if you don't chew quickly enough, if you chew, not enough, you don't produce them. Is that true? So digestive enzymes are made like all throughout. So like pancreas makes them, obviously you have your stomach acid, but there are digestive enzymes made in your saliva. And mostly, it's not really to break down too much fats or carbs, it's more so amylase, which breaks down carbs. Or I said proteins and fats. So it mostly breaks down carbs in your mouth. So that's why you do want to chew slow because it's like pre digesting carbs. And I'm not a fan of drinking water. I've never heard of that digestive enzyme, which makes sense. But more so can you know, your stomach acid is trying to ramp up, right? It's saying like, Oh, foods coming in, like, let's try to you know, optimize that. And water can obviously make you feel full when you need to be focusing on you know, eating because the under eating is an issue with so many women. So I'm a fan of like, don't try have to have any interference that can affect appetite pay. Oh, that's interesting. Why do you feel that way? Not 90% of women that come to us say I'm eating, I'm following my hunger cues. I'm eating good. I'm not starving. And then I look and I'm like, we're not huge on numbers. But we do like to take a little peek see, and have you tracked for maybe a couple days. And hands down. Women are eating like toddlers, they're eating 1200 calories. And I'm like, your body's just used to that. So your hunger cues are wrong. And so I That's my issue with intuitive eating. I do believe you can get there. But I don't think a lot of women are there to start. And maybe it's subconscious of diet culture. Maybe they've been dieting for decades. And they actually don't know how much they should be eating. And so just from experience, most women are under eating 1500 calories. And that's not okay. Like how do we expect to thrive as a woman create babies, and we're barely giving our body fuel, like our car wouldn't work if we didn't give it gas. So it's just crazy. Because some women just like, like, no, that's not me, I eat I'm not hungry. But their bodies are like, No, you girl you need like 1000 More like, that's how much more you need to be eating. And they're like, what, like, That's so weird, because I'm following my hunger cues. So it's interesting that the intuitive eating and the hunger cues because like if anything is out of whack the hormonal imbalances, it it your body thinks you're hungry when maybe you aren't, or vice versa. And like there's even hunger, hunger, hormones, leptin and ghrelin, and all of those things that tell you when to eat, and those can be totally out of whack as well, right? Yes, yes. So that's why I do believe you can get to intuitive eating, but you have to actually assess and look at my eating enough. So you may need to grow into that. So a lot of the times that's a slow process, it's just adding more slowly over time. Once you get there, once it feels good, then most of the time, your appetites up, it will trigger, it will trigger you and say, Oh, you are hungry. So that's just my little snippet there. I do believe it's, you can attain that, but it's not typically where I like to start, because women just aren't very off.

Amy: 8:20

Yeah, and this is like resonated by me so much, because I think I probably under eat even though I probably think I overeat because I've actually been tracking. So do you know that lumen device where you breathe into? So I've been tracking, I've been using it for a while just to kind of see different things and like, you know, you blowed into it every morning. And it's you know, I don't know how accurate it is. But it's it is very interesting, like when I'm burning carbs and fat. And I've just been doing it every morning and seeing how it changes throughout my week based on what I'm eating. However, with that it tells you like how many, you know, fats, carbs and protein to eat. So I've been following that. And I've just been really, really mindful of eating more protein because I don't think I'm eating enough. So I've been eating more protein, and I've been following the macros pretty much and to your point, it's probably not I'm not necessarily trying to diet but when I follow that it's probably around 1200 to 1300 calories a day just by what I'm eating. And again, to your point I'm like I don't it's I haven't been hungry or anything and I'm not necessarily trying to diet I'm just trying to see like how my body's working but I don't know it's strange because there's probably all these apps to your point including this one that maybe not giving you the right information about how much you should be eating. I mean my whole focus has been on just like training more protein but it's interesting to watch to talk more about that.

Unknown: 9:48

That's a goal for sure. I most women don't eat enough protein at all. So it definitely needs to be something that's worked on. Lumen actually does have a lot of science behind it. Yeah is typically the gold standard. I have like measuring metabolism in that way. And I was actually going to incorporate that and give people that in our practice instance, because I feel like it can get a little obsessive. And ultimately, again, I don't, I don't think people need to be obsessing over that to show how they eat in the long term. But yet, like I said, like you said, you might not give you the right information based on your whole person. So like, when we do our first session, we're going back to elementary school, you're telling me physical abuse, sexual abuse, antibiotic usage, you were always SEC like, I mean, we're looking back at the full person. And I feel like those type of apps are technologies, that can be great, but just take it with a grain of salt. Like, don't let that be your Oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Amy: 10:51

I've tried it myself, too. Yeah, I've been using it directionally. And I what I've noticed is, I've just been doing it in the mornings. And it's so interesting, because sometimes, like if I have a night where like, I just eat whatever, and I binge and I have wine and whatever, and I'll blow in it, I blow like a one. I'm like, How is that possible? And then on a day where I'm eating like, really good and protein and clean a blow when it's like a three and then most of the time, it's like a two or three, just depending on mostly a theory. And like literally everyone was telling Katie this every single day since I've had it and I flooded it. It's pretty much a good two or three, mostly three. And it's like today's a low carb day. I'm like, like, every single time I'm like, Alright, see?

Unknown: 11:29

I used to Yeah, same thing. It's very it's hardly day to

Amy: 11:34

day. I'm

Unknown: 11:34

like complicated. Yeah, nice. I don't know. I know.

Amy: 11:37

But it is interesting. It is just like puts you a little bit more in tune. But I think to your point Lohana. Like, if I knew more about what else was going on, then that would be a helpful tool. But now it's just kind of like I'm using it just to kind of like experiment. But yeah, I think in tandem with like, a real team of doctors, then it would be better for me.

Unknown: 11:56

Sure. Yeah. It's also interesting. I I'm really curious, you know, out of everything that you've told us, what are the some of the big takeaways like what are the keys to improving your metabolism and feeling good in your body and kind of bouncing your your hormones out. I mean, if you could just give our listeners a few pieces. Yeah, definitely eating enough. We'll we'll go through on that. If that's like my biggest thing, please eat enough. That is hands down. The most important thing you can be doing building muscle strength training as the anti aging key, that's the secret is building muscle, we lose it naturally as we age. So there's we can't go against that. It's just our natural aging process. So the more rebuild, it will boost our metabolism, and it will make us look good and eat good. So that's a huge fan. Optimizing protein amounts for sure. Most women, it's very different. But most women should be over 100 grams, at least. And then from there, it's just different based on activity and goals. Gentle walking, I think a lot of people like underestimate walking for metabolism, but it's amazing, and it's gentle, and we definitely should be active and then optimizing your thyroid. So that could be making sure you're repeating any nutrient deficiencies you have reducing stress because stress blocks going back to the stressor, it blocks thyroid conversion and thyroid production, addressing any gut issues that can be triggering for autoimmune thyroid, because your thyroid is the little gem to host your metabolism. So supporting that is really important. Okay, that's great. Yeah. And to your point earlier, you can have a healthy thyroid that is in range, but not optimal. And I know just from experience with hypothyroidism when I like I have my own optimal that is even like smaller than what maybe a functional medicine providers optimal would suggest, but I just know my body. So it's something to keep in mind because I know Amy, you've dealt with that with like higher TSH levels, and your doctor said it was fine, but Maybe for you it's not optimal. And something like something like like zinc or selenium supplementation. Lohana Is that where you point your patients to that are trying to optimize their thyroid with supplementation? We like to test we have a test that does all vitamins, amino acids and minerals. So I just like to test to see what you're even deficient in. And even things that might be borderline. I'm a huge fan of like food first and so just focusing in on those foods a little bit more. So that's typically our like next step because I hate blindly messing with like supplements, even though some supplements are kind of harmless. I just don't know. I just don't like wasting money and like potentially dangerous Yeah, yeah, just like yeah, yes. For sure. So yeah, I like repeating nutrients because you could even have perfect TSH, perfect thyroid hormone, but turning it into active thyroid hormone T three could be sub optimal. And every woman is different. So ideally, we'd like that to be above a three, but women who are like to point A can feel like crap. And to them that's really low and so optimizing that and they feel great once they get above 3.2. So every woman is different. So even with optimal ranges, there's still that bio individuality that roll.

Amy: 15:14

I have a last question about the hormone stuff for our listeners. So if someone is on birth control, or an IUD, can you properly test for hormones or your hormones kind of like screwy because of that?

Unknown: 15:27

No, it is impossible. And I don't do that a lot to balance hormones. When you're on a hormonal birth control period, it's always going to shut down your natural hormone production. It's exogenous form. So it just kind of takes on that. So even your bleed that you have, if you're on birth control to regulate things, it's not getting regulated. It's just truly a bandaid. So the moment you get off birth, control all your issues, you're gonna come back, so no waste of money, please do not test like the Dutch and stuff. I always when people want to do. I'm like, Nope, you're on birth control. It is a waste of money. Don't do.

Amy: 15:59

Okay, now, that's a really good note and even an IUD.

Unknown: 16:03

Yeah, if it's hormonal, yeah, interesting. Okay. Not the copper. The copper is not hormonal. So you could test right. And but obviously, that in and of itself can cause issues and heavier bleeding and copper toxic. So

Amy: 16:15

how do you then work with people? I mean, just because there's I'm sure a lot of people out there that are on an IUD or birthing, like how do you work with people that are on that? Or do you tell them to go off of it?

Unknown: 16:25

No, I feel like technically, most people that come to us are people trying to get off of it or are off of it, basically. But if they are on it, and they really want to stay on it, we just have to change expectations and say we're not bouncing hormones, it's impossible. But what we can do is support your body in different ways. We can be on top of nutrients, testing your nutrients regularly, because birth control depletes you of nutrients. We can support gut health because there is connections with birth control affecting intestinal permeability, which is leaky gut. So working on gut health and then optimizing liver, because there is a higher risk of liver disease and stuff for people taking birth control. So liver, gut nutrient depletion, that's where we'll focus. We can not focus on hormones, though. Okay, unfortunately, no. Okay. All right, well, Lohana where can our listeners find you you are at new V true wellness in Austin? Yes, yes. And that's our website and UV true wellness.com. We openly share how we work our pricing. So if you're interested in becoming a patient, we're virtual, feel free to check us out there. And then Instagram is our favorite. So Instagram Stories is where you see more behind the scenes, but Instagram is our favorite platform. But I believe that we're everywhere. Facebook, tick tock,

Amy: 17:39

I don't you do do virtual. So for our listeners who are all over, they can contact you. Okay, that's great. Yes,

Unknown: 17:44

yes. Yeah, testing is really easy. We can just ship you a kid, the only state that's a little bit funky as New York. They have very, very strict labs. So we can't run Labs in New York and stuff. So just FYI. Interesting. Okay. All right.

Amy: 17:56

Good to know. So before we close out, let's get into our quick wrap session. Okay, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Unknown: 18:04

Right now? Red light therapy. I love it. Yeah. Or ice rolling?

Amy: 18:09

Yeah, have a good ice good ones. Good ones. We love those. Both. Yeah,

Unknown: 18:12

this next one is your five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dry it off and you over pings you there five minutes away? What are you going to do to get yourself together and out the door? eyelashes and just a vitamin seems nice? Which one? Do you? What's your fav Vitamin C Serum? I think I've used lately, the cocoa chi and I think I just grabbed that one from Target, which is great when I can find a good brain at Target. So I think that one's the one I've used mostly.

Amy: 18:42

And I hope some luck because you're in Austin. Yeah. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily nirvana.

Unknown: 18:50

Being in the word is really important to me, especially in the beginning of the day. It's that's my whole days. It's my whole week. So I'm connecting spirituality is probably my most important thing that I can do. That's nice. That's beautiful. Alright, so before we go, let's close with our mantra of the week. Amy, do you have one for us?

Amy: 19:10

I do have one. So this is one I saved from a brand called weather urban that I follow. And I liked this quote it was or this affirmation, I guess we could call it and it's the whole point of life is to change to evolve to grow. Don't resist it. Embrace it. Oh, yeah.

Unknown: 19:28

I love that. Yep. Hopefully this episode helps our listeners do just that. Much. I think it will. I Ilana, thank you so much for being with us today. Yes, thank you so much for having me.

Amy: 19:41

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out For all things wellness so you don't have to buy

Episode 79 - Goodbye DIY Health! Functional Medicine & Nutrition With Lahana Vigliano, CEO Of Nuvitru Wellness, Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 79

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are sitting down with Lohana vogliono. She is the CEO and founder of Nuvi true wellness and she's also a board certified clinical nutritionist. The hunter holds a Bachelor of nutrition science degree and a master's of human nutrition plus Functional Medicine degree which is all super impressive. She's currently a doctorate student in clinical nutrition. And she has so much passion in helping women realize that there's a root cause for their symptoms, especially when they have been dismissed by health care before which we've all been there. Her company knew the true wellness specializes in women's hormones and gut health and uses functional medicine lab testing to personalize the patient's journey. Goodbye DIY. It's so true. We're all our own science experiments, right? That's what it's Yeah, she is obsessed with creating natural remedies, researching reading romance books, lifting heavy and cooking meals for her family. Outside of work. She's a mother of two and a wife. So we all have a lot in common here. And her family was the inspiration behind New vitro and continues to encourage her through everything. So welcome to the show. Lohana

Lahana Vigliano: 1:43

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here and to talk about all the fun things. Yes.

Unknown: 1:48

We can't wait to get into all of it. But before we do, let's kick off our nirvana of the week. So Amy, I want to hear yours. What do you got?

Amy: 1:57

Um, so it was funny. I was thinking about this this morning. And it's the fall and it's busy season I feel like and I I feel like I've been running a million miles an hour and I haven't really stepped back and I was like, I don't even know. Like I don't even know what brought me joy this week. I'm sure there's there's been some little things and big things but I guess the other night or one of the things that was sweet was the other night I was my son came home from my younger son came home for basketball practice later and so we had dinner for him and he was just you know, kind of sitting eating his dinner I said you want me to sit with you while you eat? He's like yes it with me, which was sweet. We just had a cute little conversation one on one. So that brought me joy. And we're hugging afterwards and hugging the dogs. There's just as like a sweet little moment because I don't get a lot of time with I just feel like the kids are so busy too. We don't get a lot of that one on one time. So it was sweet. What about you?

Unknown: 2:51

It is really sweet. Those like little intimate moments that are hard to catch when they actually talk to you. You know? Yeah, exactly what I was thinking about this we've had a couple but I know you're saying it's like the insanity things are really busy. It's probably the days are flying really quickly. I came home from some family stuff. Last week I had to travel for to do peloton bike that my husband which was a year I was very surprised by it.

Amy: 3:21

I didn't even know you guys were looking at that I did I know

Unknown: 3:24

we were either. Apparently this is a plug for peloton but they have a good new membership model. So it's the kind of situation where I don't know if we're renting it or if we own it. I don't know what it is. But it's a membership model. It's just a it's more accessible for those that are maybe interested. And it's the new one where it has the TV screen that turns and you can access all of their classes. So you can do like weights and yoga. And like, you know, all kinds of other stuff off of the bike. So that was a little nirvana for me. I've been using it this week. It's it's that's a sense of price. Yeah. What about you? Lohana What was your Nirvana this week? I definitely agree with you guys. It has been pretty crazy. And it just last week was even crazier. So honestly, it was just some silence and some wind down like we had family in town. Work was busy. We were under contract for a house and that was unexpected. But a good deal just came up and so that it's a lot so honestly just slowing down and just doing low Netflix days. Like I remember earlier this week, I was like you know what, I'm gonna do my appointments. I have a couple. But the rest I'm just gonna like Netflix. I'm going to just enjoy I'm going to work out I'm just going to do me stuff. Yeah, I

Amy: 4:43

love that. I actually I had I had a good night to watching a Netflix show with my husband. We have like a lot of shows that we will end up watching at night. We tried to put our phones away and watch the show together and I saw the I don't know if you guys watch Handmaid's Tale Yeah, you've been watching you know, like This week's episode, literally, I couldn't stop talking about it was so good. I want to know, listeners haven't listened. But like, I was just I couldn't it was so good.

Unknown: 5:10

We all need those chills.

Amy: 5:13

I know, I know. Awesome. Well, it's so nice to meet you ohana. And I feel like there are so many questions that I have. And Katie has, and our listeners will have. But I think because I've actually been like, looking into this topic a lot lately, because I'm just feeling like off. And I think like, we hear so much about gut health and microbiome and hormones. And I'm just confused, like, Where does someone start? Like, kit? Is there a home test? You can do you have to go to a doctor, you have to find a functional? Like, where do we start?

Unknown: 5:44

Yes. Usually, for good testing, you will have to have like a good partner. And that could be a functional medicine doctor. That could be though we are not doctors. We are dieticians and nutritionists. But we have access to labs and stuff. So any functional medicine provider, you'll definitely want to partner up with because there is so much information and it's so confusing. And just because you hear something doesn't technically mean that's what you need to do. And so I'm all about like, not DIY in anymore and understanding like what does your body need and moving forward. But a great place to start with, which is something you mentioned is gut health. So if you do struggle with like bloating, or diarrhea, constipation, acid reflux, abdominal cramps, anything and anything in the gut, that is where I typically like to begin, because it really all does stem there, there's so many different connections of how that affects our hormones, sex hormones, adrenals, you name it. So if you had to, like narrow in on just like a focus got would be my favorite because while you are focusing on gut, you do end up trickling into other areas at the same time.

Amy: 6:48

And if you want to focus on gut like, what do you do you go to your doctor and you say, I want to get the I know we've talked about this before on this show the Dutch test or like, what do you say specifically

Unknown: 6:58

for gut you would want a comprehensive stool test. And if you're seeing someone who's functional medicine, there's a variety of them. A lot of practitioners do like gi map, but there's stuff from Genova. But if you just a comprehensive stool, a functional medicine provider will absolutely know what that means. Just to circle back quickly, you're saying you want to team up with a functional medicine provider? It's so interesting, because I think most women when they think hormones, they think OB GYN, right. And I I've been there, we've all gone to that doctor, and it's it really is not their purview, you know, they're there. They're like going there to like, keep your uterus healthy help you have babies. And that's it. So the hormonal stuff that kind of blew my mind. And I think I know a lot of people that were surprised and really kind of let down by their OB Gen, because they just say, oh, like, yeah, everything's good, you're fine. You're fine. So that's good to know, for the listener. Okay, so help us understand that gut health and hormone connection. So you, are you just saying that with gut health comes? Like, explain how that all trickles down? Yeah. Yeah. And I want to say to a lot of providers that are in the traditional health care field, they're looking for pathology. So disease, that doesn't always mean though someone has a disease, you can have like an imbalance or something a little off. And that's why things aren't caught, per se. So like, we hear all the time of like, Oh, my doctor tested thyroid hormone for an example. And they said it was good. But then when we look at it, when they only tested TSH, which is not the like, it's one marker of the full thyroid picture, not the form, you can't just rule out thyroid with just that. But that is hands down what most providers do. And then the second thing is maybe they do get a full thyroid panel, and then they look at it. And yeah, nothing's out of range like crazy. They don't have hypothyroidism. But you can see a little bit of sub optimal, like their sub optimal, they're not the best level that they should be, but they're not disease wise. So they typically will be you know, shoot off. So that's, that's a it's very, very different. And yes, I think if you're looking to just longevity and just be healthier, that's where you got to get someone more in the alternative realm. But gut health is my favorite thing ever. Because I feel like it it feels so like, how the heck is that even related to hormones because it feels so different, but it's not. So there's a couple different ways that poor gut health can affect hormones. And a lot of that is well one thing is your bacteria balance. So we always have our probiotics, which is our good bacteria. And then we have opportunistic bacteria, which is bacteria that will always be in the gut, E coli, Staph strep, but when they are at higher levels, it causes chaos. That's why they take opportunity to cause chaos and give you bloating and all the really fun symptoms. So when you have this imbalance bacteria, we call it dysbiosis. It increases an enzyme called beta glucuronic days. And this enzyme actually can reabsorb estrogen and toxins that have already processed through the liver, it reabsorbed them back into the body. So that can be a reason for things like estrogen dominance of having just too much estrogen in the body. So that's one way. Another way that it affects hormones, and the adrenal round, which is our stress hormone. When you have stuff going on parasites, yeast, bacteria, you name it, that is very stressful on the body. And so that will actually stimulate your adrenals that makes our stress hormone, and it will stimulate cortisol or stress hormone. So this is a low key chronic stressor in the body. So whenever we bring up the stress conversation, we have to not when I think, I think when people think of stress, they think of Oh, yeah, my boss sucks. I had a really bad day, my grandpa died. But no one's thinking the internal stressors, and those mean just as much as external. So if your body's stressed internally, it's going to affect your cycle, it's going to affect other things. And then the third way that gut imbalances or gut issues, cause issues is when you are not able to digest your food properly. And we do see this quite often, whether it's people having trouble digesting fats, proteins, carbs, you're ultimately not able to absorb your raw materials that is needed for hormone production, every single process in the body hormones, not hormones, you there's a nutrient related in there, and it's helping the process come along to producing the hormones from the raw materials, and then ends up testosterone and estrogen and progesterone. So if we're not able to get what we need from our diet, then we're gonna see a kink in the hormone production. So isn't it it's wild, how complex our bodies are. I mean, it's really it like blows my mind. It's really cool. Do you I've heard that, like eating a lot of fiber is good, because it helps flush out the excess estrogen that's in your bowels and in your stomach and everything. And so would that excess estrogen be coming from the liver? Like you said earlier that infiltrates the system? Is that how that works? Yeah, so I mean, we always problems we're done with it, we process it through the liver, or fiber does help. I know, raw carrot salads are a thing right now, to help kind of bring that bind it and take it out in the body. But I mean, if you definitely have some microbial stuff going on in there, it can definitely still influence any reabsorption later on, not just for hormones, but also for toxins, which I feel like is a woowoo topic, but it shouldn't be because there's a lot of research showing like phalates, and parabens and BPA, and all these environmental toxins do affect hormones. So it increases reabsorbs those so that can you know affect hormones as well in the long run.

Amy: 12:52

So I always feel like to I hear about inflammation, right? And when we hear about inflammation in the body, what does that mean? Is that like, does that have to do with hormones? Does that have to do with gut? Is it just like, I just feel like, again, that's one of those words where you're like, Oh, you have inflammation everywhere? Like, what does that mean? And like, how do you address that,

Unknown: 13:15

it's actually kind of like your immune system is being very over reactive. And you know, our immune systems, you can think of it like when you get a cut, and your cut gets inflamed, that's just because there's a lot of chemical processes that are attracting your immune cells to help fight off any, you know, disease and pathogens. So more on a cellular level, that's kind of what's happening. But then with inflammation in general, it does just like a cut, it gets like big and red and sore. And so internally, I guess you can think of it the same way. It's just like, you might hold on to water and you might not feel well, you might get headaches. So we want to make sure that yes, our immune system is always active, it's always fighting for us. But we just got to make sure that we're just not chronically asking for it to always be on and these are like gut health and all these other things that I feel like functional medicine, actually acknowledges is the root cause of why people are having chronic and this chronic inflammation can lead to all sorts of problems like autoimmune disease and everything. And that all can start with what you're putting into your body, what you're feeding yourself and how all these imbalances are manifesting right

Amy: 14:28

now. Go ahead and yeah, and sorry, one more thing. I've just I feel like I've been like listening to a lot of podcasts about this lately, too. And it's like, you know, there's what you're putting in your body and and also what you're supplementing your body with, but then I feel like there's all these other like you were saying Lohana environmental factors. As I was saying to my husband the other day, I'm like, I feel like we need to change all of our cleaning products. Yeah, like, right, yes. Yeah, like we need to do a full sweep of that because I don't know like, just like my husband has a lot of allergies and so I feel like Do we need to do a full suite? Because there's so there's all these other things that you're not thinking about? Yeah, which is scary, but,

Unknown: 15:07

and it's scary, because it seems like oh my god, there's just so much stuff like eff it, like, I'm just not gonna do anything, right. I'm a big fan of like, take control, like with what you have control over what you put in your body, what you put in your house that you're putting on your body, like your beauty products like that all matters. And if you just slowly change each thing, before you know it, you've taken a lot of risk and reduction of, you know, chronic disease in the long term. So I'm such a huge fan of doing that, because studies do show that it literally inhibits because it hormone production is like a little we always forget the term for this assembly line. And so along the assembly line is little enzymes. And so these toxins affect these enzymes, and they either can slow it down. And again, there's the kink in the system, or it can even increase certain enzymes, like there's an enzyme called aromatase that increases testosterone to turn into estrogen. So and that's all like BPA does that. So it is very much a thing and should be taken as seriously as diet. That's really interesting. This next question is a bit personal because I was dealing with this myself, I don't know if you know 100, but I have hypothyroid and Addison's disease, so my hormones are just always a mess. But I think I'm getting to that age where they're getting a little bit more interesting as we know, ladies. So all summer, I was dealing with blood sugar issues, and I've never had blood sugar problems before. I'm not like pre diabetic or anything, but I would just I would be eating carbs or the wrong thing. And I would be a mess. Whereas I used to handle it. And I wouldn't get like the big rush of energy and the heart palpitations and then the heavy heavy crash. So why why does that? How's that connected to two hormones and hormonal shifts as we age? Yeah, oh, I love blood sugar, because I feel like it's one of the foundational hormones that needs to be in balance, for sex hormones to be balanced for Yes, adrenals to be balanced, because it can it can drive inflammation, it can stimulate stress, and cortisol. When you're like on that up and down roller coaster, in an intense way. You're kind of always in a little mini roller coaster, but any too low lows too high highs are problems, but it regulates your energy gives us clarity, and then influences our weight ultimately, as well. So insulin is our fat storage hormone. So it's really important to make sure that this is balanced. And so we love doing like continuous glucose monitors and really like playing around with foods and how they react with the body. Hopefully they know the importance. Okay, it's interesting how you said I never thought about how to fix cortisol because I don't I don't make cortisol. So I have to take cortisol. So when I was having these ups and downs on these roller coasters, I thought it was affecting it was affecting my Addison's and I would need more steroid, and then that causes all of these other problems. So it was just this massive, crazy shift. But for the rest of the population that isn't as screwed up as I am. That blood sugar, you're up, you're down. And when you're crashing, you're thinking I'm hungry, I feel lightheaded. I feel I feel so sluggish. My brain fog, I should eat more. So it's just this like constant cycle, right of probably choosing the wrong foods and doing the wrong thing to feel stable and you never feel stable. Personally, the shift happened for me when I switched to paleo, and I was able to stabilize better. So that's just a tip for anybody out there that's dealing with blood sugar issues, could always try that.

Amy: 18:35

What's also interesting is Katie, and Lana, and if you've heard this, this episode, and for listeners, you can go back but we interviewed the founder of criminal wellness, Lisa Aden Weller, and we had a long conversation about blood sugar and like how it should remain stable because so many foods spike it like she was saying oatmeal can spike your blood sugar and then you're down again. Whereas like if you try to stay in that window of like in between, you don't get super hungry, and then you don't have those crashes. But we had a conversation about that and she was saying she wears a blood sugar or glucose monitor to really see how all of the foods are affecting her which sounds like it can be individualized for many people but

Unknown: 19:14

oh yeah, that's why I love the CGM is some people do fine with sweet potato and some people like no not fine so that's where a lot of the just because you heard like oh don't do potato it's so bad for you it raise my blood sugar that does not mean it's going to raise up blood sugar for the other person right there are more foods that are more likely to but I definitely firsthand have seen so many people respond differently to bananas and to grapes and to potatoes and to rice is very different so that's why I love it because it gives you that like inside feel of like oh this is what works right? That is your go to monitor the kind that you can put on your arm Do you suggest that to your to your clients? So it's constant which is super cool as opposed to the traditional diabetics, they just prick their finger and check occasionally throw of the day.

Amy: 20:00

So what is it, you just wear it and it tells you what your blood sugar is all day long.

Unknown: 20:05

It's a prescription. So you have to work with a provider to get it. So when we we have a doctor that prescribes it for us on our team, but it's so amazing. So it goes in the back of your arm, and it measures your blood glucose 24/7. So while you're sleeping all throughout the day, so 24/7 just seeing what it is. So you open up your app, and then you see like what's spiking, it's really interesting to see your nighttime as well, because it can be problematic if by chance you are spiking at night or going too low. You can do things before bed, eating certain things, doing certain things that can help like balance that out. So some sometimes people need like a bedtime snack that's really balanced like proteins, carbs and fats, some people don't. But I think it's awesome because it can also tell us like how you do with fasting because the adrenal blood sugar is very intertwined. Because if you're either running, if you're not eating breakfast, you're most likely running on cortisol, just FYI. Which is why I'm I think intermittent fasting and fasting can be helpful for women who have good hormones, and they're balanced. But a lot of people just want to do that. But you're running on stress hormone. So if you're already having adrenal issues, now you're just putting an extra burden on it. So we want to balance that blood sugar because the reason you're running on cortisol is it's tapping into stored glucose in your liver and in your muscles. Because that is what balances out your blood sugar levels. So cortisol is like crap, we're not getting into glucose. Let me knock on some cell doors. Let's bring it out. And let's balance your blood sugar. So that's why I say you're running on cortisol. If you're not, you know, eating breakfast, you're using up stored glucose, but you really got to tap in and use those adrenals.

Amy: 21:44

So is that the same thing for men like our men and women the same in that

Unknown: 21:48

area? Yes. And also Adrenal Fatigue is also a very real thing. It's not it's not an AMI, have you? Have you heard of adrenal fatigue? Because it's not I have adrenal insufficiency. So that's a totally different thing. But it's, it's it's kind of a hot topic, right? Adrenal Fatigue, and it's when people are like you said, probably running on spiked levels of cortisol and it can feel you just like you always feel kind of rundown and you think, oh, I need more coffee, but that actually makes it worse. It's that always feeling like stressed feeling right, is that yeah. And usually when someone gets to adrenal fatigue, the correct clinical description is HPA dysfunction, which is hypothalamus, pituitary adrenal dysfunction. And it basically just means that from a long term stressor, maybe you were just really busy for the last year just always stressed, eventually, your brain kind of takes a break from your adrenals. So the communication between those two organs are like, Hmm, let's go on vacation, let's just take a break. So when it then now people will tend to have low cortisol, because that brain, that communication of the brain to the adrenals is not functioning as well. So the adrenals tend to be very low, so then you're going to be tired and just feel like crap. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, people want to drink caffeine and, you know, add on more feel better stressors, but it makes it worse, but you actually need to slow down. Yes, you need to slow down or body rest, don't be excessively working out. It's the opposite of what you should a girlfriend of mine has been doing the her functional medicine person caught the adrenal cocktail, and it's the pink Himalayan salt and lemon juice, right? And that kind of just like helps replenish things. Yes, typically, when adrenals are low functioning, it needs a lot of love and nutrients. So some adrenal cocktails, will be like a little bit of orange juice with collagen, some coconut milk to make it like more of a balanced carbs, proteins, fats, but then they'll add electrolytes because your body just needs extra amounts that needs extra amounts of vitamin C, when your adrenals are low, lots of B vitamins when they're low, because that's really what helps them work and thrive. So when it's low functioning, you just need extra nutrient lab support. So adrenal cocktails are a great way to get into like Dr. electrolytes, the orange juice can also provide a little vitamin C, stuff like that. So yeah, that's a really popular tool that even interesting.

Amy: 24:10

I have a question too. Because again, like we were saying, there's so much information out there and like, this stuff is so individualized and like the more and more I learn about it, I'm like, I just needed to have a functional doctor because there's so many things and it's like to your point, like no more DIY because you try to you try this one day you try it and you don't even know what you're addressing, really because you don't know what you have to work with. So I guess my question is, how do you find a good functional doctor? Like I have a friend and I asked her the other day, I'm like, some of your functional doctors. She was like, Why have one but the waitlist is six months and I have another one that's virtual, but I'm like, how do you vet a functional doctor because I think it's so important to have a regular doctor and a functional doctor. See you have a team's like always know what's going on with you, especially as you're getting older and your hormones and gotten all these things are changing.

Unknown: 24:55

Well, I'm your girl. No, I'm just getting.

Amy: 24:58

I was just gonna say are you for Jonathan Yeah, we

Unknown: 25:00

do work virtual, we're actually all virtual. So even if you're not, I'll discuss to see you again. And then but I it's just like any doctor, you kind of have to interview them because I've even seen functional medicine doctors, you know, just to make the theme more difficult that I was turned off because I was pre med. So I was turned off by a pill for every ill. Yeah, now I also see functional medicine doctors doing a supplement for every ill. And so I feel like even though it's natural, we're still prescribing like, Oh, you have inflammation? Here's turmeric, well, what the heck is inflammation occurring? Why is that even happening? So I see a lot of that in functional medicine space, so you still have to be careful. I feel like you just have to, like, if you're a practitioner is always asking why, like, Okay, I'm feeling like, that's okay. Why, okay, then this happened. Okay, so why, why, why why I feel like most of the time, then you're going to have someone who's going to dig enough and deep enough for the root cause. And that's what the most important thing is, you can start off finding, I think it's ifm.org their website you can find if you want someone close to I think you can search by zip code. So that's a thing, but I don't know I feel like most people find people based on like podcasts and obviously budget because it's functional medicines typically self pay, so that plays a role too. So yeah, I feel like people just kind of hear on like social media and then they reach out to them. So I don't know if there's like an official way. That's good to hear that and I have found with doctors that you just have to vet them yourself. Like you have to understand what it is that you're looking for. And you know, like for my endocrinologist I interviewed like five this year before I found somebody so yeah.

Amy: 26:38

Stay tuned for next week, where we continue our discussion with Lohana we talk about all sorts of things hidden cause for bloat how women are eating too little keys to improving your metabolism, the secret anti aging key and much more. See you next week. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listen to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 78 - Stop Glorifying The Hustle With Ella Lucas-Averett (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 78

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Ella Lucas Averett: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:27

Welcome back to the show Nirvana's sisters family. It is Amy and I'm solo today Katie cannot join us and we miss her. But I am here with a fabulous Ella Lucas Everett.

Ella Lucas Averett: 0:40

Did I pronounce Yeah, rhymes with favorite.

Amy: 0:43

Oh, Averitt favorite. I love that. Okay, so she is a businesswoman. She is a part time triathlete, which is amazing, a keynote speaker and host of the On Air with Ella podcast, which we'll probably do a pod swap with in the future. And that is a show for anyone looking to live better, feel better and have some fun along the way. Ella claims her greatest superpower is trial by error, we can totally relate to that. And she loves to bring her audience along with her in the pursuit of living our very best life one step at a time starting now. And this really resonated with Katie and I went when we got connected Ella because like your mission is very similar to ours, which is why we were so excited to talk to you or we are so excited to talk to you. And it's just so great meeting other women, other like minded women that are in this, you know, sort of self care well being balanced worlds in that realistic down to earth way, which is just like kind of what we're about to so for the audience, Ella and I connected through chief which is a network for senior executive women. I had Denise Guerra on the show a few weeks ago who was also from Chief so I'm loving all of these fantastic women that I'm meeting through this network. Without further ado, welcome to the show.

Ella Lucas Averett: 2:01

Amy, thank you so much. And thank you to your listeners for letting me sit in today. I appreciate it.

Amy: 2:06

Yes, of course, everyone will be so excited to hear from you. So give us a little bit of your story and kind of your podcast has been around for a long time and your business and all of these things. So kind of tell us about your point of view on well being and what you're working on?

Ella Lucas Averett: 2:20

Yeah, well, it has to be said that I started my podcast got in 2015 before everybody in their actual uncle had one. We love it. But it was a different world back then. And I started it because I listened to a podcast or two and I was super inspired to bring health and wellness to not not to bring it to the masses, so to speak. But to make it more accessible because I had this belief that wellness could be should be in would be more accessible than profitable. And if we kept it simple, and if I could bring experts who actually knew what they were talking about to others, you know, that's really what motivated me, Amy, I am not a health guru. I'm not a trainer, I'm not any of those things. I'm a businesswoman. As you said, I make my living in corporate consulting. Yeah, not the same world. But for me, I was at that time just turning 40. And it was more important to me than ever to kind of stay on my game. And I had really like, I had been a triathlete for about 10 years at that point. And so I was super, honestly, probably the fittest I've ever been in my life and feeling really good and frankly, feeling like it was easy, even. And it motivated me to want to bring sort of the secrets and the biohacking and wellness tips to my community and create a community about that funny twist about that. It's not always easy. Sometimes you go through ups and downs, sometimes it's about more than what you look like sometimes it needs to be way more about your mental health, or how you're feeling or what your energy is like and, and I learned all these lessons along the way, Amy over the past seven or eight years now. And my community has come along with me. So that is a long way of saying that it started out as kind of health and wellness as a lifestyle, but it was sort of code for fat loss, if you will, a little bit a little bit and now much more into a much more robust definition of what wellness means for women. Many, many, many more issues that we care about to live our richest, fullest lives. And that's about way more than our gene size.

Amy: 4:43

Yes, I 100% agree and it's so much it's so much how Katie and I think as well because this whole point of being accessible and realistic. But before we do this, I realized I forgot to do on nirvana of the week because It is it is Friday, and I think both of us are running 1000 miles per hour. So we need to take a step back and talk about something that brought us joy this week, Sunday that kinda put a smile on our face bigger smile, whatever that may be. Let's just ground us before we continue in the conversation because I feel like we need to do that. So I can start. So my Nirvana was actually this morning. I've been running a million miles an hour, it's just that season, right? Where it's like, kind of headed towards the end of the year, and everything's crazy. And I have like, 1000 things going on, just like everybody else. And I was talking to my husband, and he's like, You know what, we actually recently bought an infrared sauna, which is amazing. But I haven't even used it. And I'm the one who wanted it. And he's used it every day. And he's feeling really good. And he's like, what, why don't use infrared sauna. Like, chill out, like, go in there and relax. And I was like, No, I need to, like, get into a routine. I need to do it at night. And he's like, just go out and just warm it up and go and I'm like, okay, so I worked out I wanted to the sauna. And I was like, Okay, I'll go in for quick 20 minutes. Like, I don't have time. I went in, I ended up staying in at 40 minutes. And I felt so good. afterwards. My body was like, thank you. It was like, it was such a shift in my mindset in my body. And I was like, this feels amazing. And I need to do it more. And I walked downstairs, my husband, I'm like, Thank you for encouraging me, encouraging me to do that this morning, because I feel 1000 times better. So that brought me joy this morning. What about you, Ella?

Ella Lucas Averett: 6:23

Oh, if only the listener could see my face because Amy, mine was okay. Sit down, sit down to them. Last night, I could duplicate the beginning of what you just said been running around like a maniac and not in a way that I think I deserve a prize. Like I actually have learned that that is not how I want to live, but it's a season that I'm in. So here we are. Yeah, and I got home from a business trip late last night. And Amy, I got into my infrared sauna and that was gonna be it's gonna be

Amy: 7:00

this is insane. By the way, I've never had the same Nirvana someone and that's okay, this is synchronicity. So many things happening. This is like, I haven't felt like

Ella Lucas Averett: 7:08

results in three weeks. And by the way, anyone who's gagging right now, because they're like, must be nice. I have a story about my infrared sauna. But first of all, I am dying, because that is absurd and hilarious.

Amy: 7:20

That's really, really crazy. kind of freaking out.

Ella Lucas Averett: 7:24

I haven't been able to exercise, I like to move my body every single day. And I just came out of three days of complete sedentary living, like bad road food. I mean, just everything I don't want in my life for the past three days. And I walked in and I walked into a home where my husband happened to be and I kind of dig him. So that made me super happy. And then I went downstairs and I baked in my infrared sauna. And I felt like a completely restored person. And I felt so grateful I was just drowning in sweat and gratitude. And funny story about that though. I just want anyone right now who's just rolling their eyes at the fact that we both are lucky enough to have infrared saunas in our homes. When I moved, I actually live quite close to Amy in the DC area. And when I moved here, we bought our infrared sauna flatpacked brand new from somebody off of Facebook marketplace who bought it and never used it. So I just want you know, that I man Oh, you want and we'll have a manifestation for you as well and check Facebook marketplace because that's where I

Amy: 8:28

got my and there's, that's actually a really good idea. And there's also so many places now that are starting to pop up that offer so many of those services. So I had tried it at a lot of those, like there's a place near me called um, I think it's restore hyper wellness or one of those and they have sessions. And they also have a new seen it online, they have the ones where you can like they're like portable ones, you can just like, sit in bed and put it on your body. And, you know, obviously much less, much more reasonable option. But yeah, anyway, that is hilarious. I don't even know what to say about that. Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. We're totally linked. I love the whole thing. And that's why I see St see mindset here. This is why I'm so glad we have you on the show. So we were kind of talking prior to the show start starting about what wellness means in this world. And you're sort of alluding to before and it just reminded me like, or you were saying you were on a trip for three days and sedentary and I know that feeling of going on a business trip and it's like the food and you're just sitting down and whatever. And I've also like incorporated wellness. I mean, I've been doing this for years without even like actually realizing it of when I have a business trip or when I have something I'll go a day early. And make sure that like I'm hydrated and I've worked out or I've gotten a treatment or something. So when I start those three day of meetings, I'm like grounded because I've noticed that when I don't do that I'm a hot mess and I don't feel good, you know, or like I'll leave early. If everyone's going out that night and I could take a flight home I'll go home because I'm like you know what I just Do I need that downtime, and I never realized it till I got older that like, I actually need quiet time and downtime, whether it's work, whether it's going to see friends, whatever that may be. And it's so important. And I think when you're younger, you're running, running, running, and then all of a sudden, like, for me, I migraines or Katie, you know, it's so important to take that time, but anyway, went off on it. Yeah, well,

Ella Lucas Averett: 10:23

I think there's a larger issue at play here. For a lot of people there, at least I'll speak for myself anyway. And that is that for many, many years now, I've owned a consultant companies since 2003. That's a really long time. Okay, so I've had lots of my own iterations in that experience. And let me tell you, for the first, I don't know, 10 years, it was all hustle. And one of the deeper issues here is that I think that many of us and certainly I'm sure some of those listening AMI tie, this, I'm just jumping right in, but tie our worth and our perception of our worth to our productivity. So I, I absolutely have a hypothesis that, you know, if we do nothing more than untie our worth, our perceived worth, untie it from productivity and our appearance, we live a lot happier, a lot faster. And frankly, that's behind a great deal of the work that I do. So I the reason I said, you know, super busy week, but I'm no hero is because frankly, some part of me felt, you know, quite noble in the hustle for years and years and years. And it wasn't until my body about gave up on me somewhere midway and I started losing my health and my vibrancy and my energy. And my body was all of a sudden the body of a stranger and I didn't recognize it anymore. And I started, I revisited a disordered relationship with food. And like everything was just completely out of whack for me. And I had to do that work, Amy to start really pulling apart how I saw myself, you know, what value add what what youth Am I to the world? If I'm not producing 18 hours a day, if I, again, I've gone on, but I think there's so much to be done here. When we are accustomed to be rewarded for our achievement, or our appearance. Some people both yeah, there's a lot to undo there. And the sooner and faster we can untie those elements of that equation, the happier we are. So yeah, there's no bizarre and it took me a little while to understand that.

Amy: 12:40

And I totally agree. And we've actually touched on this a couple times in our show with with different guests. Because this hustle culture, I can't stand similar to you. And I like to say hustle on doses where like, you know, you do stuff for a little bit, but then you come back and you put your foot on the gas, and then you break. I mean, you need that. And I think the more it's talked about specially in the corporate environment, the better because we all know people I know many, many people that are still in that mindset of like, oh, I have to work 18 hours a day to be seen to be promoted to have my boss. And there's a lot of like old school, you know, traditional thinkers that think that's the way to success, when in fact, it's quite the opposite. So it's a really good conversation. And it's something that we should continue to like, spread around, because I think those who can balance this and who can do this in doses and are not like killing himself are the ones that are ultimately going to be the most successful, the most happy, the most healthy, the most vibrant, the most in their Nirvana, right? That

Ella Lucas Averett: 13:40

is so important. And one thing that women can do for one another is have these conversations out loud, because I think a lot of the times we go in sort of three phases. One is hustle, hustle, hustle, you know, sacrifices seven days a week, you're on your you're on, you're on call. If you get an email on a Saturday, you're replying to that email on a Saturday, for example. And then the next phase might be that you tone it down a little bit that you check in with yourself a little bit, but Yang talking about it. So you're not you know, making a show of it, you're just trying to achieve some kind of balance. I'm in the third phase, I want to talk about it. I want to encourage other women, you know, one of the women I was working with this week is in her 30s. And I said to her I actually I don't want to be super specific. But let me let me change the names and the context. But I basically said, you know, you just said yes to something that you didn't need to say yes to and forgive me for overstepping. But consider this, this and this, and you don't have to show up at every dancer invited to and, and I could see her shock and all that I said those words out loud. But you know what, you don't have to go to every party you're invited to. And what I think we should do as women further into our careers is start having these conversations, because it's one thing To stop glorifying the hustle behind your closed doors, and it's quite another to kind of muster up the courage or the transparency and say, You know what? Let's have these conversations out loud. And let's have them more often. And let's have them with the women who are

Amy: 15:17

and let's have boundaries, and it's okay and support each other doing that, like, I mean, I stopped answering email, you know, on the weekends, years ago, because of like, I'm not doing that anymore. I stopped while I still email at night, but I try not to, you know, but you start to set these boundaries with yourself, and then others realize, Oh, I'm not going to bother her, because I know that she doesn't answer emails on the weekend. Or you could do the opposite, which is just like, consistently go and never and never say no, and someone trying to think there was this quote, I heard or listened to, or maybe it was even on my show. I can't remember, someone had said, about saying no to things. And it was like, if you don't want to do that right now, say no to it, because you're not gonna want to do it in two weeks leave commit to a dinner, you're like, Oh, great. And then intuition. I don't want to go with these, like 10 girls that have small talk or whatever. If you know, right now, you're not gonna want to do it do not commit. And it's been such a guiding principle for me, because there's so many things I used to say yes to that. I'm like, No, thank you. I'm busy.

Ella Lucas Averett: 16:18

I think the best thing we can do is lead by example, and keep having conversations like this

Amy: 16:24

100%. Okay, so you have you have over, I don't know, 500 episodes, a bazillion episodes. And you've talked to a lot of self care, wellness, productivity type people, what is like your favorite, I guess? I guess the few things like, it's probably hard to answer this. But what are a few takeaways that you've learned throughout the years? Because like you, you know, I'm not an expert, Katie and I are experts. But we talk to a lot of people that give us information. And then we use that for, you know, our own lives. So we're, you know, practitioners, if you will, so what have you learned that has really helped you over the years since you've had your

Ella Lucas Averett: 16:57

show? Great question, I'm going to answer it from two different ways. One on a very base level, like, it is super fun to try people's products, to read people's books to talk to me. So you know, you get sent stacks and stacks of books sometimes and to be able to consume that type of content, and then have conversations with the researchers and the authors. And the the people who did the work. Like that part's fascinating, but also just learning about different types of products. So like, I have, I do red light therapy, because I have a red light hanging in my house. I didn't know about red light therapy until I started my podcast. I didn't know about Infrared Saunas until I started my podcast. So that type of thing is super fun for wellness geeks. But love it the thing that really, on a more meta level, the thing that has been my largest takeaway really is a bit of a twist. It is I wish I knew when I was in my early 20s, that nobody had any idea what the hell they were doing a lot of the time. Right. Amy, I have interviewed a Olympic gold medalists. And they talk about their failures. And they talk about how they didn't know what they were doing. And I talked to people who have started, I talked to a woman who founded health aide kombucha, and some people don't know what that is, and other people might be addicted to it like I am. And she died. Her name is Dinah and she started this in her kitchen. And I think it's valued at $500 million, just like 10 years later. So a moderate success story. And she had no idea what she was doing, literally, she'll be the first person to tell you that. So I'll be honest with you my largest takeaway, and the thing I love to get to with my guests, who have had raging success and very obvious success to the world, is to really break down that there is no magic formula. And when I speak this is this is oftentimes what I speak about. And that is that, truly, it's not sexy, and it might not sell books. But taking the smallest step toward the life you're trying to create is the secret to success. Because if you did that every day, instead of being overwhelmed by the large steps, or the big leaps are waiting for motivation to land on you like lightning. If you took the smallest step every day, by degrees, your life is completely different six months, 12 months, three years from now, that's been the greatest life lesson for me.

Amy: 19:31

I love that. I love that. And it's so true. We've seen that too. And a lot of the entrepreneurs and founders we've met with, yeah, no one knows what they're doing until they do it. And then they give guidance because they've been through it, but no one knows what they're doing. And like everyone's figuring it out and that makes you feel better and also less intimidated when you meet certain people because no one really has it together. They're all figuring it out too. That's a great lesson. I

Ella Lucas Averett: 19:55

used to think when you were younger, or maybe it's just me, just that like the super successful People are the people you admired. Like they kind of they probably were born with something that you weren't or they had something, some natural gift, yet some natural gift that you felt like you had to kind of find. And it obviously came naturally to them or they were just smarter or savvy or something earlier than you. And it turns out, no, they just did the thing.

Amy: 20:20

So that they've gotten coaching. They've done this, they've done that you

Ella Lucas Averett: 20:24

could talk to 20 year old yep, I could talk to 20 year old me, I would say go do the thing, like do the thing. You want to do risk failure, and do the thing that you want to do, because nobody knows what they're doing.

Amy: 20:36

Yeah, yeah, this is like a random story. But it's one that I remember. And it's so minor. But speaking to the point of like, when you're younger, and you're seeing all these people, and you're like, oh, they all have it together and they know everything not realizing that they've gotten coaching and this and that to get to where they've gotten to. I was in someone's office when I was younger, a leader of mine, who was so put together so chic, like, you never see this person fell, right. She's just like, amazing. But I was having meeting with her. We're, you know, chit chatting. And I noticed like one of her nails was like chipped in wasn't done perfectly. And I was like, it was like, for some reason, it always stuck out to me. I'm like, You know what? She doesn't have it all together, either. Because her nail was humanized her. There you go. Yes. 100%. So I always think about that. I don't know why she's

Ella Lucas Averett: 21:22

like, it's a metaphor. It's

Amy: 21:23

a metaphor. You're right. Also, let's talk about how you balance because you know, I'm in a similar boat and Katie, too, with with stuff she does outside of the podcasts, like, how do you balance the podcast? And I know how much work it is, it's insane. You know, building that building your business, being a good wife, like all of these things, what is your I mean, no one has a secret, as you said, but like, how do you figure it all out?

Ella Lucas Averett: 21:50

I don't, I do a couple of things that give me so much more peace than I used to have. Okay, and the first thing I do is I give myself a little bit more grace than I used to. And that is probably because of some of the tools I'm about to share with you now. And one of those is to realize it for some reason, you know, sometimes just super simple concepts stick in your brain and just really hit you at the right time. Well, I learned to look at my life in seasons, everything I'm trying to accomplish, and or wherever I'm falling short. So it's really important for me to move my body every single day. That's important to me. Now, does that mean I do it every single day? No, but it is my default. So you know, maybe it's five days a week. But that's because for me, it's not a decision that I wrestle with every day. It's a given. And so it happens more often than not, right? So so when I go through a period where I have three or four days where that does not happen, I used to just beat myself up. And I think that if shame were an effective strategy, we would all know by now that he did. So self flagellation, we're weirdly did not improve my life in any way. So there, I was still not moving, but now beating myself up over it. So when I learned how to think of my life in seasons, that word I really connected with, and it changed everything for me, and I'll tell you what, I mean, some times I go through a season where I have to really gun it out, like get it out rather, and I'm working my tail off for 10 days, you know, these these Sprint's these spurts, and I'm not taking optimal care of myself. And instead of painting the rest of my life with that brush, I take a deep breath. And I'm like, this is a very short season, like you got this. You know, I you and I have tried to connect before and I just came out of a three week season that was a real Bender for me, and not a lot of fun. And again, years ago, I would have panicked, I would have self flagellating, which would have led to bad behaviors to cope, you know, whether it was numbing out with food, everyone has the thing they numb out with and again, mine used to be food and like a disordered relationship there. And I would go to all these mechanisms rather than like just allowing the discomfort. And so when I connected with the word seasons, I'm like, this is a season of intense sprint work for me, and it will be over. And then sometimes I'm in a season where I can ride my bike three days a week, which is outstanding. And sometimes I'm in a season where my husband and I are so connected and we're able, you know, we have quality time together and quantity time together. And then there are other seasons, which we happen to be in right now where we are just running at 800 miles an hour in two totally different directions. But instead of again, painting our life with that brush, we're saying we use the terminology. We say, Oh, we knew this season was going to be like this. It's over. We know when it's when it's over. It's over two weeks from now. Yeah. Yeah. And we talk about it and we plan accordingly. So there's a lot in there because it requires an A awareness, it requires intention. And it requires a mindset. And what I used to do is just go go go beat myself up, and then go go go some more. Oh and cope.

Amy: 25:12

Right now that's so true. And then it's like once the season is over having the tools to then step back from the season. And I think you and I are very similar in that when we're younger, we didn't have the tools. So you just keep going. And then you burn out versus now you're like, Okay, to my point earlier, you can hustle on doses. But then you take the tools out of your toolbox that work for you. And then and you know, you're going to have that at the end of that two weeks season or whatever it may be, which is the which is, which is like, I feel like you start realizing that when you're older, and then learn more and then these things,

Ella Lucas Averett: 25:46

trial and error or baby, it's my specialty. Yeah, I've just had

Amy: 25:50

Katie calls herself the human science, science. Yeah,

Ella Lucas Averett: 25:53

I just have failed on air for seven years. But you know, and then sharing those and then we iterate again, and we iterate again, Amy, but okay, do you remember the actress Jenna Elfman, I shouldn't say Do you remember, because I think she's gonna show now that I think she's on The Walking Dead or something that I don't want. Yeah, she was dharma. She was dharma. And so I was interviewing her. And she said to me, she had this great analogy, since she said, I look at my life as a mixing board. So just picture like a DJ Studio, you guys have seen it like in behind the scenes when someone's recording a song. And she said, I Picture My Life, like that mixing board that you see in the studios, and she's like, sometimes the bass is turned really high, and the treble is really low. And she said, you can't have all the dials at 10 all the time, you know, Something's gotta give. So sometimes the bass is quite high, and the treble is low. And sometimes you're able to pull the treble up, and the bass comes back a bit. And I thought, what, what a grace to give ourselves to realize, and I have a model now that I work with that is the life wheel. And I just like to take an audit every once awhile, and I look at different areas of my life. So my career, my personal finances, my spiritual life, my relationship with my husband, my social relationships, and I kind of I sort of rate myself I know, this sounds so silly, on my on my wheel, and I use this with my community as well. And sometimes you're really high in some areas, and it's never not at a cost of some other area. You're never attended anywhere. The goal is right. Balance over time, I used to think it was balanced in a moment, there's a huge difference,

Amy: 27:31

right? So true. I was also reading that you do retreats, and I think you just got off a one. So what is that? What is that? What does that

Ella Lucas Averett: 27:39

Oh, those are super great. This is bringing my podcast community together. And when we had a few chiefs in this retreat, as well, which was lovely, but bringing, bringing my community together, women only no offense, we love a man, but I love. I love to create space for witness the best. And the first one I did change my life because I had never invested in I had never invested so heavily in deep, meaningful relationships with women, because I've been burned a few times. And so when I had my first retreat, it was you know, let's say, let's say 45 people. And we spent three days together that changed my life, it was as impactful for me if not more so than it was for them. And then I was addicted. And it was such a wonderful community. It was fun. I laughed my face off. And we did some fun wellness stuff. And we did some personal development. And it was just like, the best Slumber Party you've ever been to for three days. And you walked out with tools and tips. And I was like, okay, more of this place. And so I've just done one, you know, obviously there was a little a little global pandemic setback. But he was able to hold my most recent one in Miami, and it was smaller and more intimate and absolutely lovely and so much fun. And there's just something so powerful when women very age and background diverse. But when you are like minded in the sense that you all want to be living your best life and I don't care how cheesy that sounds, because I'll own it. But if that's why you're all together, the conversations that you have and the moments that you have in the learning that can happen between one another absolutely fantastic, totally addictive, highly recommend.

Amy: 29:23

Katie and I have been talking about this. We've mentioned it a few times on the show that we want to start doing your rawness sisters retreats in the future. So I'm glad to hear how impactful it has been for you. I will we are going to have you as a special guests. We've already talked to someone else that we've had on the show that we want to also join so stay tuned for that. So before we get into our rap session, Ella, I wanted to pick your brain on what are your favorite podcasts knowing that you have your own I'm sure you listen to a lot what are your favorite ones lately?

Ella Lucas Averett: 29:50

Bored? Oh, I wasn't prepared.

Amy: 29:52

Oh, sorry. I you know, what's impromptu questions that you don't have to answer if you if it's too much on the spot. As she's looking through her Apple podcasts or Spotify,

Ella Lucas Averett: 30:02

this is so funny. I don't want to disappoint anybody. I love to recommend other people's podcasts and I love to amplify. I love to amplify smaller creators like independent podcasts because like I said, now it's just it's obviously a very crowded marketplace. But I'm I also have this weird quirk where I will listen to 1000 different podcasts because I'm listening as a podcaster. So I listened to topics I disagree with, I listen to subjects I'm not interested in because I'm listening for other reasons and or I'm researching a specific guest. So I'm going to use this as an opportunity to amplify a super fun podcast created by two women. I think they're in their early 30s. And they have created this thing together and it's like a little pop culture he gossipy but wickedly smart, and it is called celebrity memoir book club. Okay. Oh, I

Amy: 30:55

haven't heard any lips die laughing if

Ella Lucas Averett: 30:58

they knew that I was recommending them because I am not their target market. I don't think we're gonna attack now. Okay, celebrity memoirs. And they read celebrity memoirs. Okay. And they are, they're both comedians and extremely intelligent women. And so then breaking down the knee. So their English literature is hilarious to me. And they're very witty and very intelligent. And they added depth to these rather silly books a lot of the time with with an insightful point of view, but it's a lot of fun, and it's an easy list. So

Amy: 31:33

check that out. I'm definitely going to check that out. Okay, so let's get into our rap session. You're ready. Okay, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Okay, so,

Ella Lucas Averett: 31:42

we've mentioned the infrared sauna, but I bought you a pot a prop. So everybody I know has like the 13 step facial routine. Yeah, and I just use this stuff called best skin ever. And it's a completely natural oil and I use it at night on my face and it's my I have that and I love it. Yeah, living libations I love to pump them up. I've interviewed the founder a couple times. I have zero affiliation with the company. I've been using it at night exclusively for a decade. Love it can't get enough. Don't

Amy: 32:10

you find that oil cleansing has changed your scan? It's changed mine.

Ella Lucas Averett: 32:15

addicted. It's like liquid gold and I leave it on as a moisturizer after my face is cold. Do you believe in it?

Amy: 32:22

Yeah, okay, I'm gonna try that because I usually put it on and then wipe it off but

Ella Lucas Averett: 32:27

it's liquid gold.

Amy: 32:29

Amazing. I do use it at night or in the morning just mostly

Ella Lucas Averett: 32:33

at night. Every once a while in the morning if I'm going to work out or something and it doesn't matter. Yeah, tiny but at night. It's best. Yeah.

Amy: 32:39

Okay, five minute flow. You just got out of the shower. And dry it off. Your Uber is five minutes away. They just pinged you what is your quick beauty routine? Like what do you put on? What are your go twos or holy grails to get downstairs and get in the car?

Ella Lucas Averett: 32:52

I mean, Amy, it takes me seven minutes to get ready on a normal day. So this is not

Amy: 32:57

God. That's amazing.

Ella Lucas Averett: 33:01

Because I don't know like people do contouring. I don't know what that is. I don't know how to do anything. So honestly, it's my every day, which is moisturizer. Slick ponytail. So I need this is what I need in my life. I need lipbalm then I need a lip gloss. I need a really solid hair tie. And I mean silver hoops on Golden. I'm there.

Amy: 33:25

And are you like a uniform girl? Like if you're going out? Like do you have specific things you wear like jeans and a T shirt or whatever or you were different. In fact,

Ella Lucas Averett: 33:32

I wear I wear different things every day I let my clothes tell me what they want to be just like my hair, my hair is in charge of itself. And honestly, I do this weird thing. I get intuitively dressed. It's so funny. I don't ever spend any time picking out my outfit. I walk in the closet and I like I asked my intuition. What are we wearing today? And then I just do what I know

Amy: 33:52

I do the same thing. I do the same thing, which makes it hard to pack for trips because I'm like, I don't know, I'll be on like, exactly. I don't know, I'm gonna feel so funny. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Ella Lucas Averett: 34:04

Okay, again, I give my self grace for not always maintaining nirvana. And two things I am learning to do more intentionally is breathe. And you think that sounds simple. Okay, then drop your shoulders wherever you are right now. And take a breath all the way into your diaphragm, which is below your ribcage. And tell me how often you are intentionally doing that because it sounds so simple. But are we are we doing it? Yeah, so honestly, that alone, I didn't realize I was taking shallow breaths. You know, for 15 years. I had no idea. So I'm trying to be much more intentional about that. And I'm trying to be more intentional about what I consume, to make to maintain my daily Nirvana and I'm not talking about food. I am talking about what I watched and what I listened to. So there's a lot of things that are no longer in my feed, whether it's fits Oh, or other people's bodies in my feed, and or just like junk, just you know that total garbage that is, you know, kind of all over the TV and all that stuff. So I'm very, very conscious of what I consume because it changes my chi. Big time.

Amy: 35:17

Yes, I feel you on that one. Okay, and before we close with a quote slash mantra, where can everybody find Oh, you're

Ella Lucas Averett: 35:24

so sweet. I'll keep this short on air with Ella. So on Instagram, you see a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on and on air with Ella and then as the On Air with Ella podcast.

Amy: 35:34

Amazing. Okay. So Ella is going to bless us. She has a quote, slash mantra to end the show. And I'm excited to hear I

Ella Lucas Averett: 35:42

live by this. And I didn't say at first, Arthur Ashe, famous tennis player from Virginia said at first. And he said, in order to achieve greatness, start where you are, use what you have, and do what you can. And I would just add, start now.

Amy: 36:01

Yeah, so good. Such a good one. Thank you so much for joining us. This has been great. Like, I feel like there's so much more to talk about. But thank you for being here. We really, really appreciate it. And I'm so excited that we connected because this has been such a great conversation. And I feel like there's so many things that are alike between us. So I love that I can just feel the energy through the through the virtual studio here. So thank you again. My

Ella Lucas Averett: 36:25

pleasure. Amy, thank you so much.

Amy: 36:28

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 76 - From Professional Burnout To Balance With Chelsea Mooney (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 76 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Unknown: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family, we are here with Chelsea Mooney, the founder of Touray collective. And we are very excited to speak with her today, she was inspired to start a lifestyle brands built with a few values which we hold near and dear to our heart as well. So the first one being planted and people of our profit always. Number two design intentionally with Mother Earth in mind. And number three, well being above all else. So that is super important to us, too. So we're excited to meet you excited to have you on the show and to hear about your background in fashion and how it kind of led you to where you are now. So welcome to the show, Chelsea.

Chelsea: 1:11

Thank you, Amy. And Katie, I'm so excited to be here. Okay, Chelsea,

Amy: 1:15

so we'd like to start out with our nirvana of the week, which is really just a highlight of our week, a way to step back and be like, This is what brought me joy this week. As we're moving through things so quickly these days. It's good to do that. So I'm gonna send it to Katie to let us tell us about her nirvana of the week.

Unknown: 1:33

I was thinking about this. We Okay, so this is really nice. My dear, dear, very dear friend, that was my old neighbor. When we lived in Kentucky, her and her daughter, who is my oldest daughter's best friend, they came for a visit. So they were just here this past week. And we had a really nice time we took them to the beach, and we, you know, swim in our pool. And we showed them around our town and just to see the two together. The girls, the young girls was so nice. And also this friendship with this person is so lovely. It's so easy. There's no pretense with just flows like, you know, we threw dinners together. She laughed at me because I chopped up a mozzarella stick Varsha cooter reward. It was just keep it simple with each other. And I really love that. So it was it was lovely to have them here. So that was my nirvana of the week. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:27

I love that. So mine was my kids were away all summer Chelsea, they were at summer camp. And they got home a couple of days ago. So it was obviously amazing to see them. And we didn't have a visiting day this year, because they didn't want you know, all these parents coming in and potentially bringing in anything. So we were able to talk to them on FaceTime a few times, but it's not like, you know, seeing them. So it was really fun to just see them and give them a big hug and like know, their home safe and sound. So it was amazing. What about you, Chelsea?

Chelsea: 2:58

So I have been developing a new candle vessel for next year. And I just got the sample in. I'll give you a little sneak peek but no RAS jar. It's gorgeous. Pretty. Yeah. So this, this will be something I've been working on for a couple of months. So I was really excited. What is the top half and look like? My logo?

Amy: 3:19

Oh, that's beautiful origin here. Oh, that's so fun.

Chelsea: 3:23

Yeah. So that was my, my highlight. I'm excited to I Love You know, when you sketch something, you have this idea. And then it is brought to life. It's just the most exciting thing.

Amy: 3:32

That's so cool. We'll have to talk to you about that Katie and I have been talking about for years doing some sort of candle collection. So I might not Yeah, brain in the future for sure. Okay, so let's get into it, Chelsea, because I know that you had mentioned the pandemic really served as a wake up call for you. And I'd love to hear a little bit about that story.

Chelsea: 3:51

Sure, yeah. So I've been in the fashion industry for over a decade. And, you know, there's this culture within the industry of this, this urgency and this, you know, it is I'm not gonna lie, it's a very exciting industry, but, you know, it's not as glamorous as a lot of people think it is and especially once a pandemic hit, you know, we're all working from home and there was just this this environment of nonstop work because you know, I was living outside of the city and commuting into it. So you have these breaks you know, in New York City, right? Yes, New York City. You know, so you have these breaks you have you know, your home time and then your work time when you're in the office but then once a pandemic everybody transition to work from home and just with the ones everybody realized that okay, this is not a two week closure like this is we don't know when this is going to end. Things just got really crazy. They, the company I was working for wanted to create all this new product and we had less time to do it because of all the supply chain issues. So There was all these factors coming into, that created this environment of, okay, I work from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed. I mean, there was for, I would say, a couple of straight months, like, I would not get up from my desk, like my husband would bring me lunch. I'm like, it was, it was crazy. But yeah, and then just, my, my body was just screaming at me. It's like, this is not, it just wasn't this healthy environment. And the pandemic really just kind of opened my eyes to that, because it just got to a point where it's like, okay, like this, just this is not a sustainable way of living or working. And, you know, it just, I think, seeing, seeing how, how leadership and my manager and the teams were handling issues like work life balance, and the lack thereof, kind of just opened my eyes where it's like, okay, that's not a priority for them. So like, how, how are we supposed to then make it a priority for ourselves when the people above you aren't? So it's just this whole big mess of things.

Unknown: 6:11

I think a lot of people definitely went through very similar experiences when the pandemic hit, and then working remotely. And then over time that becoming the norm. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that. And I, to your point, that the fashion industry, I worked in IT for a decade, and it is not as glamorous as people think. And it's like, it can be downright, like crazy and sketchy. And people can be really intense in that industry. So I could see how you'd be working from like, 7am to 9pm, non stop with a lot of pressure. So yeah, so when did you decide to make the shift? And you You left the industry altogether to start your own company?

Chelsea: 6:55

No, so it's been a slow progression, but and it was all these little steps. So, you know, there got to a point where I was having panic attacks, you know, numerous times a week, and I, yeah, I have an anxiety disorder. I've been managing it since I was 19. But it got to the point where it's like, okay, like, I can't manage this anymore. Like, my, so I oversaw the whole knits department, the technical design side of the knits department for this company I was working with, so once the pandemic hit, everybody's wearing sweats and tees, and, you know, they, they launched this whole athleisure line. So, I've just, I remember this one conversation where I was telling her, I was like, we cannot keep working like this. And, and she said to me, she goes, Yeah, well, everybody feels that way. And that's what I was like, Okay. Like, like, like, that is not the correct answer. But suddenly, it was a slow progression that was kind of, you know, the, they were like, okay, like enough's enough. If you're not gonna, like, I'm giving my all to this company to this brand, I love what I do. I'm so passionate about it, I really do love it. And, but I started to realize like, okay, but like, you're not caring as much as I care. So I'm like, that's something I want to change. So that's kind of why I was like, Alright, I'm gonna take starting this business seriously. And it's no longer just for sustainability reasons. And for putting clean product out there, it's now about creating an environment where people can come to work and be proud of where they work for and, and be able to have work life balance, and, you know, just be happy and not have to deal with the shit that people in industry deal with.

Amy: 8:46

Many people, whether it's fashion industry, or other industries, working, especially well, probably in startups, obviously, and also in corporate America, because they think culture is everything. And you can have a profitable business and be successful, but your culture can be terrible, or it can be really good. And I think especially nowadays, definitely the younger generation is more. I think they're looking at companies that have values of work life balance, and remote working or hybrid working, because like, why would they settle completely when they see like other generations being burned out? And like, at one point, I feel like there was this and it still is this like hustle culture and like burnout, like you have to burn out in order to like, be successful and like, No, thanks.

Chelsea: 9:35

Yeah. 100% I mean, that I looked back on it so many times, because I'm like, why is it this way? And I think there's a lot of pressure in fashion because you have so many people trying to get into this very small industry and it's really hard to get into it. So when you get a job, they it's almost like you're afraid to not work. work as hard as you can, and as long as you can, because you're afraid you're gonna get replaced. Right. And then especially in the pandemic, there was also this guilt that was created within the company because we didn't get furloughed. And lots of other design companies and brands were their workers. Were being furloughed, left and right. And it was like, We were almost made to feel like, Oh, we're lucky because that's it happened to us. And I do feel very fortunate about that. But it was taken one step further to where it was like, like, you felt like you had to work non stop, like you had a job, right? Yeah, exactly. Right. And I'm like that that culture should have never been been fostered. Yeah.

Amy: 10:41

Yeah. It's crazy at our company. I was furloughed. And now back, but I actually, Katie, and I started this podcast when I was furloughed, because I had time to think and realize a lot of things that you're realizing like, you need to start paying attention more to yourself and like your own health and your own well being versus like working and not, you know, getting back another word. And

Unknown: 11:06

then there's so much that so yeah, but the burnout culture, too. There's like we see so much on social media, people saying like, if you haven't done XYZ, then you haven't hustled enough today. And I think that there has been a little bit of a shift in regards to social media, people trying to focus more on to this respect, which is good. You know, I hate that. Like, we're even referencing the fact but it's 2022. It's like, we are looking at Instagram, we are looking at Tik Tok, and it's there, it's around us constantly. So I like that this, this shift is kind of happening all around us. When was it that you started? Like, did when did this happen? Like 2021? Like we're at When did your journey kind of change?

Chelsea: 11:53

Yeah, to 2021. So last year, is when I was like, Okay, I'm like, I'm no longer putting my job above everything else. I was like, I'm gonna do the best that I can. And I'm still I'm going to do what I can, I'm going to manage my team, I'm gonna, you know, take care of that I'm not going to, I'm not going to do a bad job, because that's just not me. But what I did was, I started, you know, getting up from my desk and making myself lunch. And I started going to yoga at a small studio in my, in my town, and I just started doing things for me. And I, you know, set rules where I was like, I'm not going

to work before 8: 12:35

30am I'm not going to work past six. And I was like, if I didn't get something done before, then it did it. That's it. Like, I just wasn't going

Amy: 12:44

to do it. That's very hard to do. How did you

Chelsea: 12:47

get i Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's almost impossible. And it's, I think I was just so done. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm not making it. This is gonna sound really bad. But I'm making these rich white men all these money. It's like, I why, why am I like, why am I having panic attacks for them? Right? Like, people. People aren't walking around the streets naked, like they have clothes. Getting this tech pack out, right? It's not doing

Unknown: 13:17

exactly, yeah, it's like, it's this.

Chelsea: 13:19

It's this this culture that, like, everything's urgent. Like I'm making T shirts for $20. Yeah, like, I'm not making vaccines. So I just did us, okay, no more,

Unknown: 13:31

and you set these boundaries, and you put up parameters that you're gonna put yourself first and take care of yourself. And so what did that do for you?

Chelsea: 13:42

So much, I will in the pandemic, I'd gained like 25 pounds. Just because I wasn't eating right. I wasn't exercising, I wasn't doing anything. And, you know, my husband and I were drinking beer every night. And we just it was like, Oh, wait, it was like, you know, like the first two weeks? It's like, oh, it's a vacation and that lasted a month another month.

Amy: 14:02

So every night you're like, why?

Chelsea: 14:06

I know like we're supporting the local business by like filling up our growlers. But, um, yeah, so I just, I was like, okay, I can no longer I'm like, this is just not good for me and, and that also just goes to the anxiety. It's like, alcohol does not help anxiety, it's actually a depressant. So like, that's making it worse. The food I'm eating is crap. So like, that's also not helping. I'm just not fueling my body. So when I made the decision to be a little more conscious about that, and then actually move, like when I found yoga that just, that is really where my mindset journey started. Because I just felt so grounded and you know, yoga, what I was doing, it was beginner yoga, so it wasn't like anything intense and I would just, it was like an hour for myself. And then the shavasana at the end of it is like That's kind of like, oh my god, I love this, like just laying here, not thinking about anything. Like I make these meditation I'm so I bring my eye mask, and I'm just like, oh my god, I'm like, This is what I need to do for myself. And it was just, I noticed after a couple months, I'm like, just personally, I feel more relaxed and more calm. And I think yeah, I don't know, I just I honestly feel like there has just been like a whole mindset shift, where I just feel better.

Unknown: 15:29

That's amazing.

Amy: 15:30

And when you made a question when you made those boundaries for yourself, like not going to work before, after this time? Did anything change at work? Or was it still the same? No, it was the same, right? Isn't that funny? Like, oh my god, the world's gonna like, fall apart. If I'm not working at seven in the morning. And PS you made boundaries for yourself. And you're like, oh, actually, yeah, fine. Yeah, I've done similar things. And it's like, yeah, everything still happens. So point, it was probably

Chelsea: 15:55

actually better, because then I was so focused on what I had to get done that day, in that timeframe so that I could relax after six. And it's right. It's my it's like that.

Amy: 16:07

You know, work. Work smarter.

Unknown: 16:09

Not harder. Yeah.

Chelsea: 16:10

Something? Uh huh. Yeah, my assistant used to say that as so funny. But, yeah.

Unknown: 16:17

So do you have a meditation practice as well? Or is it do you at the is it the Shavasana? At the end that you kind of take that moment?

Chelsea: 16:26

Yeah, mostly, mostly Shavasana. I've tried a few guided meditations. But I'm very particular. And I think what I've realized is that I really just like laying in silence, or like, I'll put on sound bath music or something like that, and just lay for 30 minutes or whatever, just collect myself and have a minute to myself. I don't have kids yet, but I have a very chatty husband. So the silence is great. I normally do before he wakes up, but I'm like, Okay, I'm ready for the day. That's great.

Amy: 17:03

That's funny. So you had also mentioned like, just general mindset work that you do through yoga, but was there any books or podcasts that you read or listened to? That really helps with that? Yeah,

Chelsea: 17:15

yeah. So I am a huge, huge fan of Rachael Rogers. I don't know if you've heard of her, but she haven't. Oh, my God, you have to look her up. She's amazing. But she so I started I found her podcast on Spotify. Probably a year or so though. It's called the Hello seven podcast. And it's it's a business podcast. But the way she talks about mindset in business, and specifically like money, mindset, and boundaries, and all this stuff, I started listening to her podcast, and then she released a book. So I read it, I pre ordered her book, I read it, and I think I've listened to the audiobook, like three times. Oh, wow. Yeah, she's amazing. I also really love cinerea. Madani, she teaches the CEO school. And she she does a lot of like mindset. She teaches just overall in business, but she teaches a lot of like, mindset work as well.

Unknown: 18:10

I'm excited to check these out. Yeah, they're

Amy: 18:13

able to you actually, you don't hear a lot of mindset in business conversations. It's really about just mindset in general, which is helpful. And yeah, you know, useful, but then you're like, Well, how does that apply to my daily business? Like, how do you fix others? How do you lead that way? So I'm very interested in hearing that. That's cool.

Chelsea: 18:32

Yeah, yeah. Let me know what you think when you check it out. But they are. They're amazing.

Unknown: 18:36

Speaking of business, awesome. So you have started this gorgeous, gorgeous candle collection. And I need to like, I need to buy some because I want to smell them. You say it's tear. How do you say it? Because I'm afraid I'm going to say the entire array array array.

Chelsea: 18:56

Array. Yeah. So

Unknown: 18:57

tell us all about to array collective because your product really is beautiful.

Chelsea: 19:01

Oh, thanks. Yeah. So to array you know, just kind of continuing on from my meditation journey and just finding that, that well being and self care practice. Like I said, I started getting into yoga, and then I was like, I want to make these meditation imass. So like, enhance, you know, enhance my practice. And so I started, I love silk. I've always loved silk. And I'm a natural dye artist. So I work with tie dyes, and I only use botanical dyes, so no synthetic dyes or anything like that. So I started making these eye masks and then you know, I'm also a little woowoo so I was like, Oh, how can I incorporate like crystals and all this stuff. So I started making I started filling them with different crystal blends and herbs like I have one that has lavender in it. I have one that has sage in it. So I started making those for my practice and then if you go to a yoga studio. It smells like Palo Santo and sage and you have that, that environment there in the studio. But then when I was working from home, I was like, you know, I'm kind of missing that aromatherapy aspect of it. And I've always loved candles. But once you start learning about what's in them, I'm like, Okay, I don't really want to burn that in my home. So I started, I just bought a wax melter and just started creating these scents that corresponded with the IMS scents, and just making this whole set and just creating this whole environment. And then, you know, during the pandemic, we're all in our home. So I just literally just started making tons of candles that I just became obsessed, and, you know, they're all they're all made in either metal or brass soon to be, or stone jars. They're all soy wax. All the fragrance oils are fairly free. So there's no plasticizers in them or anything. And then all the wicks are FSC certified wooden wicks, that's, I love

Unknown: 21:01

your wick. I have found a candle that I have found locally. That is the same thing and it makes it crackle does yours crackle when it burns a little bit a little bit of a mouthful. I

Chelsea: 21:13

love that. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, yeah. No, I just love the the look of it. And then yeah, the crackle is like a little bit of a bonus. But

Amy: 21:23

it was that kind of wick better than a like, what's the difference? I don't know this between. I've seen those wicks. I don't know the difference between that wick and just like the regular. Yeah,

Chelsea: 21:32

it's a slower burn. So your candle lasts longer. And also there are some I mean, I'm sure I could source them that a lot of cotton wicks will have like either plastic in the hour, you know, you never know. So like, these are just straight wood. Oh, interesting. It's just easier

Unknown: 21:49

for me. It sounds like like a wood burning fireplace aiming. Like if you can kind of hear it. Yeah, it's really it's I love that. Yeah.

Chelsea: 21:56

Yeah. What are some thoughts about the vibe? Totally? Yeah.

Unknown: 22:00

What are some of the setups that you have?

Chelsea: 22:02

So my favorite is a palo santo sage and patchouli. It's very earthy, very, like grounding. And then we also have a coconut some tall and food, which is really great. We also have our haze Lux candle is burning oak and cedar and rosemary. So that's more of like your masculine scent. But yeah, we have. I mean, I think we have 16 different scents right now. Oh,

Amy: 22:33

my God, they sound incredible.

Unknown: 22:34

Now, thank you. And you have Chris Yes. And the the wax as well what happens to the crystals as it as it starts to burn down.

Chelsea: 22:43

So when you light it there, typically when you burn a candle, you'll get like maybe half inch of melted wax at the top. So when it melts, the crystals and the herbs will sink down. But as the candles lit, you can see them in the wax because the wax is translucent when it's heated. And then at the end, once your candle is finished, because it's soy wax, it's really easy to clean out. So you just pour some hot water in there, it'll turn the remaining wax into an oil. And then you can either save the chips if you want to. You can reuse the vessel. But yeah, for me, it's all about that. Just sort of that feeling like you know, a lot of us there's people that say that crystals have healing powers. For me, it's more about the intention and the the vibe behind it because I don't know if there's actually here healing properties. Maybe there is maybe there's that but for me, I think they're beautiful. And they make me feel relaxed and calm. And so yeah, that's that's kind of the intention behind them.

Unknown: 23:47

I love it. I can't tell you how many people that we've talked to about crystals and they all use the word woowoo. Like every

Chelsea: 23:54

I think it's an LA every person

Unknown: 23:58

we talked to that says crystal like I'm a little woowoo every single day I

Amy: 24:03

don't want to get woowoo or like so how do people so on your websites are a collective.com is where you have these candles and you sell the eyemask still and what else do you sell?

Chelsea: 24:19

Yeah, so right now it's the candles and the eye masks. We will be going into some other home accessories next year and then by 2024 I want to launch a lounge line. So it'll be this whole experience you get in your silk kaftan. You go light your candle you lay down you meditate. So I want to create this whole this whole experiential brand

Unknown: 24:46

and love it and love Yeah, I can't wait to

Amy: 24:49

So when did you did you? Did you start the business like a year ago you said yeah, I'm just so what's the end? Are you still at this company or you left that No, I

Chelsea: 25:00

left the company. Yeah, I

Amy: 25:01

left that night I moved to Cal. And how was that? I kind of want to hear about that for a second.

Chelsea: 25:06

Um, it was, it was, it was great for me. I think it was, you know, I

Amy: 25:14

felt so free. It was.

Chelsea: 25:15

Yeah, I mean, it was that time I had been there for four years. And I like to equate it to a bad breakup. Because when I first got there, when I first started, I was like, This is my place. This is where I'm going to work till I retire. The people that I worked with, I mean, I'm still very close to them to this day, like we're still friends. But once once everything kind of flipped, and turned sour, and, and I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna say it was all the company, it was all the culture like, like, that was part of it. But it was also me just waking up and be like, I'm not okay with this anymore. Right? I'm like, this is not, this is not what I want anymore. So it was almost like that mutual like, Okay, it's time to split ways. So it was tough. And I don't get to see the people that I spent four years with anymore, all the time. But you know, they're doing just fine without me.

Amy: 26:13

I'm telling you might feel so like rejuvenated, running your own business, in your own calls and doing it the way you want to do it. And that's

Chelsea: 26:21

the thing. You know, I this year has been like the year of reflection for me, and I look back and I realized that I've always wanted to start a company, I've always had this entrepreneurial spirit. When I was in school, I went to MIT. And I got my Associates in design. And then I had signed up to do my bachelor's in entrepreneurship. But I ended up getting a job offer so I took the job offer instead. So I didn't you know, I only finished with my associates. I didn't go on for the bachelors. But it's always been in me, I've always wanted this and I think that I just, I don't know, like, I also love nature. So when I started learning how, how gross and dirty the fashion industry is, in terms of just like just the, the materials, that's you everything, there's so much shit going on there. I was like literally sick to my stomach, I'm like, okay, like, I can't be a part of this anymore. And then so this way I get to create product because you know, consumerism is never going to stop, people are always gonna be buying things. So I'm like, at least this way, I know that what I'm making is being done in a responsible, healthy and respectful way. And you know, as a company grows, I aim to create a culture that is beneficial to the people that work for it. And you know, just just create this place where people can can grow and develop and we'll have some we'll have four day work weeks and, and maybe have a European model where we get like a month off in the summer. You know, there's just like, I just want people to be happy. I think that's like why why do something that doesn't make you happy that I mean

Unknown: 28:03

good on you for creating that and like the bigger picture you first you're doing this small piece getting it started as a start up. It's it's filling your soul. But now as you expand you, you want to provide a safe, happy, healthy culture work environment. For others. It's just very cool. It's very cool for full circle thing that we can't wait to watch and see Jay. So congratulations. Thank you. So I think we should get into our rap session because I am curious about these questions with yo so Amy want to kick it off? Yes,

Amy: 28:40

sure. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Chelsea: 28:45

Sleep and water?

Unknown: 28:47

Those are two

Chelsea: 28:49

I'm all for naps. I love a good 45 minute nap.

Unknown: 28:53

You know it's funny I just saw this is so random. But Bethenny Frankel who by the way is like a major entrepreneur. Right? incredibly successful. Yeah, people somebody was asking her like, What's her number one thing and she said she prioritizes sleep above everything else. Like that's it like you get a good night's sleep and you get all the sleep you need. Everything else falls into place. I think that's very true. Yeah. All right. So now

Amy: 29:16

if you guys ever see her on tick tock, she's amazing. Yes, she does. Product Reviews websites. She's so good. She like does reviews of all the drugstore brands and she tells you like you know on the expensive one what's worth it? What's not drugstore, she's great. Anyway.

Chelsea: 29:31

Check her out. Yeah, she's funny. I liked her.

Unknown: 29:34

This next one we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower. Uber's pinged you there five minutes away. What are you going to do to quickly get it together and get in that Uber on time? What are your holy grails you

Chelsea: 29:45

go to use sunscreen because I'm very pale living in Southern California. Deodorant again because it's very hot. And then jeans and a T and flip

Unknown: 29:56

flops. Nice and you're ready to rock? Yeah, love it.

Chelsea: 30:00

because then I'm good to go.

Amy: 30:02

And lastly, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Chelsea: 30:05

My 30 minutes before my husband gets up, most of my dogs are still sleeping. And I take that that 2025 minute quiet meditation time to just ground myself for the day.

Unknown: 30:18

Yeah, but the time is so important. Well, Chelsea, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to meet you. And we're so excited for you and excited to follow your journey and we love your product and everything you're putting out in the world. So thanks for being on the show. Before we go, Amy, you want to wrap with a mantra or a quote for us today?

Amy: 30:38

Yes, so I think this one matches our conversation perfectly and it is this chapter of my life is called knowing my worth and acting accordingly.

Unknown: 30:49

Oh, I like that. Yeah.

Amy: 30:51

So nice to meet you Chelsea. And thank you so much for sharing your story so important you

Chelsea: 30:55

thank you so much. This was awesome. This was so much fun

Amy: 30:58

everyone check out Terry collective and follow on Instagram. They have beautiful, beautiful stuff. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 75 - Eating For Mental Health - How To Fuel Your Brain With Natasha Coughlin, Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 75 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

hanging around the sisters family hope you enjoyed part one last week with Natasha Coughlin. And if you missed it, feel free to check it out. Great episode lots of good information shared and in this short part two continuation of the episode, we finish our conversation on eating for mental health. We talk about top tips for improving gut health and digestion, how to know how much protein and fat you need, and Natasha's thoughts on organic food and more. Enjoy this part two episode.

Katie Chandler: 0:58

I'm curious what your top tips are for improving gut health? Because that's obviously the number one thing for you. It's when you start, do you feel like you start there with your with your clients as making sure that their gut health isn't as in place? What do you do to get there?

Natasha Coughlin: 1:13

Well, we test I mean, I usually do a stool test. I mean, it's not the most popular option with adults, but people kind of tend to do it. You know, they say if you know, I trust you, if you think it will be helpful, you know, I'll do it. So yeah, so we look to see kind of what they're you know, they have enough digestive enzymes, enough stomach acid, what they're, you know, the big thing now is the microbiome, right, kind of what the microbiome are doing, what kind of bacterial composition is there. So we look at all of those things, but, you know, ultimately, you know, gut health is depending on whether you're kind of where you're starting, if there's actually you know, repair that needs to happen, then we do, you know, we do certain supplements, some herbs and some vitamins, and nutrients that kind of feed that lining to make sure it becomes nice and impermeable, again, right, nice and tight. And, you know, again, foods like bone broth are really good. Anything with probiotics, right fermented, like the like, you know, pickles, sauerkraut, those kinds of, you know, yogurt, I'm not, I'm not a fan of dairy. So some kind of do not usually recommend non, some kind of non dairy yogurt. But, you know, really, gut health is so individual, like I do kind of approach it with, you know, based on test results, and really, you know, talking to a person. So, but yeah, so those are, you know, some of the foods like bone broth is very healing anything. You know, again, you know, the general formula is kind of your, your plant heavy, Whole Foods, you know, try to avoid pesticides, so organic food as much as possible, because I think there's not, you know, not a lot of understanding about, you know, what, what pesticides are, and they're really, you know, they're kind of meant to affect that it's almost kind of like combust the digestive system of pests. So you don't glyphosate right, in the in the pesticides. So So basically, that's kind of what it does to us as well, if we eat foods that are conventional, and, you know, it sounds a little too dramatic, perhaps. But yeah, it does, you know, eating conventional foods can contribute to that hyperpermeability. So you know, organic food as much as possible, and just, you know, real Whole Foods, and then, of course, you know, chewing your food really well and making sure we're eating in a mindful manner. And we're sitting down and actually, you know, looking at the food and smelling the food, and, you know, taking a few deep breaths to put the nervous system in that rest and digest state, because usually we're in a fight or flight, right, we're going and then, you know, then we sit down and we grab something while doing something else. So the brain actually has to catch up. Yeah, the brain has to ultimately send the signals to the digestive tract, the food is coming in and you know, the enzymes have to be produced, the stomach acid has to be produced. So if we are not even looking at the food, we're just kind of grabbing an eating, we are ready, you know, a couple of steps behind so digestion is gonna start after you've already started eating and that's kind of too late.

Katie Chandler: 4:24

That's so true. And it's also like it's, it's too late for your brain to tell you that you're not hungry anymore. Like I know when I'm on the go. I just I feel like I'm constantly hungry. It's because I didn't slow down and take the time for my brain to catch up with the fact that I've eaten and I enjoyed my meal and right you know, so yeah, that's interesting. I'm just really quickly how do you feel about collagen supplements? I have been taking one recently and I believe it's good for gut health as well.

Natasha Coughlin: 4:53

Yeah, yeah. Collagen I mean, that's what's in your bone broth because Bone broth has all the you know, vitamins and minerals as well, but I Um, I think collagen is good. I mean, I like to, I like to use collagen in kind of alternating with just a whole, you know, protein powder, not just the collagen because collagen is, you know, missing one amino acid. So it's not a complete complete protein. But, you know, generally I like it, I mean, it's good to you know, add to your smoothies mix into a yogurt and mix it into pancake batter. It is important to get that protein in the morning so, I do I do like to use collagen as you know, as a source of protein, but also I have some kind of a whole protein powder as well, you know, perhaps on like alternating mornings,

Amy: 5:43

do you have any collagen or collagen or collagen protein powders that you recommend?

Natasha Coughlin: 5:50

I use vital Vital Proteins, Vital Proteins collagen, for the collagen powder. I like that be well by Callie. Because it's you know, she, she says, um, and you know, of course I trust what What would her company are, are saying that it's you know, very, very clean, you know, it's breast that produced without any chemicals. So that's the one I like, I don't like vegetarian protein powders, because you know, brown rice again, there's so much to talk about brown rice, even organic being contaminated with arsenic. I just kind of thought, you know, and vegetable protein is not that bioavailable, so I would rather go with something like collagen or just a whole, like grass fed beef, you know, based protein, rather than any of the brown rice based protein powder. I mean, I can you know, something like a ham protein with very minimal ingredients is, you know, would be a good way to go. But otherwise I go with no animal. And yeah, cuz

Amy: 6:55

I keep hearing like a lot of controversy about pea protein, as well. And I don't really know, I can't remember exactly what they're saying. But I just feel like I hear noise about that.

Natasha Coughlin: 7:04

Yeah, again, it's, it's all about how it's produced, like, a lot of times it's, you know, heavily heavily processed, and how they sort of extract things, there's a lot of that, that it's not, it's not a very, you know, clean process. And again, you know, peas, you know, peas are kind of an issue for a lot of people, I actually, this sort of triggers a memory, I had a client who was a vegetarian and was just using pea protein bass powder every day. And when we did her food sensitivity testing, that was the first thing that came up was like peas was like in the red, the highest, you know, IgG levels of, you know, antibodies to that. And, you know, in her case, it was you know, she had digestive issues, kind of weight loss resistance. And, you know, one of the things we did was we swapped her people just she did start eating some seafood and fish. So I kind of took you know, she wasn't a strict vegetarian anymore. But we also replaced her protein powder with something else and just actually some real sources of protein not just you know, not just something that comes from a you know, from a bottle. And we saw some great results especially, you know, weight was like weight loss that was kind of almost miraculous and she she kind of lost all those unwanted pounds very quickly that were just they're not not budging, and nice. So, yeah, so, yeah, so pros. I mean, I think protein powders is super helpful. And again, there's, you know, a variety of when people mix them into coffee, certainly smoothie, yogurt, pancake batter, you know, things like that. So in chia pudding when I make my chia pudding, even though chia seeds have the, you know, protein, and you know, good fiber, too, I still put a scoop of protein powder, just to beef it up a little too. And beef up. I mean, like beef up on the coast.

Amy: 8:58

Yeah, I always go back and forth with protein powder. I feel like I'm really into it and making shakes and doing all those things, or I'm like, not at all and I like just try to eat protein, like real protein, but um, it just reminds me like, I should just add it to things as you're cooking, it's a really good reminder.

Natasha Coughlin: 9:15

I think that's how it goes. I think we all go through that right in the smoothies. I mean, sometimes you're just absolutely sick of smoothies. And again, like we are now going into colder months like I know I'll be making soup you know, a lot more soups and a lot you know, fewer smoothies so so there's really no right or wrong I mean food is you know, it has to be done for enjoyment Right? Like you have to be actually enjoying where you're eating. And we get sick of things you know, if you if you made them your sort of same smoothie all the time, you would definitely want something different and as I tell my clients, you know, there's no right or wrong. Usually breakfast foods seem to be the tough ones. And I always say you know there's no right or wrong if you want your leftover chicken with veggies from the day before like you can have that For breakfast, like who said you can't. So so anything, anything kind of goes as long as it's, you know, nutritious as long as it's, you know, something your body is enjoying. And, you know, again, this kind of breakfast makes me think of the whole intermittent fasting as well, and people, you're skipping breakfast. I'm a big proponent of eating breakfast, I think it's much better and then delaying eating until later in the day, like all the research says that finishing your eating window earlier in the day is much better than not starting until like two o'clock in the afternoon. So, so breakfast, you know, maybe not the most important meal of the day, because I feel like that was the Cheerios message, you know, but it is like it really is important and having enough protein, but breakfast is I would say kind of like, you know, protein and fat, right? Because we always get the carbohydrates somehow, you know, from fruits, vegetables some way, but it's getting enough of the healthy protein and fats, and especially to start your day like that.

Amy: 11:06

Do you have a recommendation? No, this is like, hard to do, because it's very individualized. But like, how someone can determine how much protein and fat they need, because like, sometimes I will eat a healthy fat like nuts or salmon or whatever. And then I like won't have something else that's a healthy fat because I'm like, oh, maybe that's too much. But without tracking, which is like I've done and I hate doing is there a way to just generally kind of know like, if you're having enough protein or fat?

Natasha Coughlin: 11:34

Well, protein, I mean protein is kind of is more straightforward. The general formula is one gram of protein per kilogram of body weight. So your, you know, you divide your pounds by 2.2. And that's your, your weight in kilograms. And so one gram of protein per kilogram. So for, you know, for me, it's about, you know, 4550 grams of protein. So I know it's an equivalent of like, two chicken breasts. And, and I know I may not have two chicken breasts, but you know, I always start my breakfast with protein. And you know, no matter what I'm eating, I'm kind of like, I know that I'm getting that 10 to 15 grams of protein with my breakfast, whether it's in like a you know, Greek yogurt with like an added protein or I'm having like a chia pudding, or I'm having you know, something with nut butter with like, extra seeds on top, you know, something so 10 to 15 grams with your breakfast, and then the rest will be divided between lunch and dinner. But yeah, whatever kind of whatever fits in, like a piece of animal protein that fits in the palm of your hand is about 20 grams, you know, can be 20 to 25. So and then what about Yeah, you know, fats, there's really no requirement for fats, we just know that they have to be healthy. So rum Satish, I know, you know, I know my if I'm eating salmon, you know, I'm getting my good omega threes, olive oil is a really healthy fat. So just you know, dressing your, I always Drizzle olive oil on either salads or cooked vegetable. So that's kind of always there. And I never measure. Again, if we're dealing with you know, weight loss, you know, you may kind of need to look at the total calories in calories and see how much of that is coming from fat. But, you know, some people overdo things on the nuts. So nuts are about like, 10 nuts as a serving, like, that's kind of what you want to have per day. So not just like, keep grabbing from a bag and then at the end of the day, you realize the bag is empty and you know, you know, 12 ounces or something. So, but otherwise, if if fat is healthy, you know, whether it's you know, half of an avocado, you know, tablespoon of olive oil, you know, a piece of salmon, you know, in you know, even something like coconut oil I know there's some controversy because it's a you know, saturated fat but I think coconut oil, olive oil, coconut oil is healthy and like, tasted delicious on you know, certain foods, so, so, ya know, a

Amy: 14:03

lot of people put that in their coffee in the morning to coconut oil.

Natasha Coughlin: 14:07

Yeah, I like MCT. So MCT oil is derived from coconut oil, but it doesn't have that flavor. And it's much it's digested. Like it doesn't go through digestion the same way as others. Yes. Yeah. So I have to do Yeah, I like MCT like powder in my coffee. Or I use it as a liquid just to like put on a toast or pancakes or in a smoothie actually makes a smoothie just like tastes. It gives smoothies, this sort of round flavor. If you're a little bit of MCT oil. It's a good it's a good you know, speaking of mental health, it's a good brain fuel.

Katie Chandler: 14:42

Yeah, I love my MCT oil. Is it every morning? Yeah, you

Amy: 14:45

got me into that.

Katie Chandler: 14:47

Just really quickly before we move on to our wrap session. I so I love that you have mentioned organic, organic, organic because I actually had someone tell me the other day that it is is like complete nonsense. And that it's just the like the organic farmers are all paid off. It was like this total, like ridiculous the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I want to hear from your nutritionist mouth. organics the way to go yes, if you can do that.

Natasha Coughlin: 15:19

Yes, I mean, I don't think it's like some big hoax. I mean, there's certainly you know, we can't control how, you know, 100% exclusively, you know, organic food is because again, there's a water supply, right, there's a air, we can't you know, nothing is grown in a silo, right, you can't really protect your fields from anything that's possibly coming in. But if food is not sprayed with glyphosate, that's pretty much as much as we can control. And I think that's what, you know, that's what's better for us. So because, again, that, you know, glyphosate is a, you know, it's, it's actually meant to disrupt the digestive tract of, of the pests. So therefore, it kind of does it to us as well. So, so I would say, organic, organic, organic, I do follow the Dirty Dozen clean 15 You know, every year when they put out their list, because there's some things that are just too expensive, organic or not available, or, you know, I know something has a thick skin and it's on the clean 15 You know, I just peel it and I know that I'm you know, I'm not getting the I'm not getting the pesticides from that. So, so that's, I would say at least do the dirty dozen clean 15 and kind of by those by those foods organic because I certainly, I mean, I honestly hate to see people who are like juicing their spinach or salary in their conventional you know, when I see people buying big bunches of conventional celery or conventional, you know, bags of spinach, because they're clearly for some kind of mass, you know, either juicing or smoothies or something like that. You know, yes, you're you're getting you know, you're you're getting the good but you're getting the bad a lot of battle with Yeah, with the goods. So, yeah, so I do like organic, of course, if it's available, if it's not cost prohibitive. The way to go

Katie Chandler: 17:18

next, thank you. Okay, I'm glad to hear that up. All right. Well, really quickly. Where can our listeners find you Natasha,

Natasha Coughlin: 17:25

integrative health, rd as an registered dietitian, integrative health rd.com. That's my website. And then I'm on Instagram at Natasha Coghlan. Fantastic.

Amy: 17:38

And do you do virtual appointments as well as people are able to do

Natasha Coughlin: 17:41

most of my appointments now? Our zoom? Yeah, nice.

Katie Chandler: 17:45

That's great. Okay. All right. Well, we're gonna get into our signature wrap session, we just have a couple questions for you. We want to know the first one, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Natasha Coughlin: 17:57

I would say my favorite wellness hack is going outside in the morning. I mean, that is my hands down. That's what I preach. That's where I practice that, you know, we have to go outside and get that first morning light just to turn off the melatonin, get the you know, get the other things started. So really so much research on that, that we need that first morning light and if it's combined with movements, even better, so like, like a 2030 minute morning walk out, of course, you can't if you can't do 30 minutes, just do something like around your yard or something that just exposes the eyes to the natural light. And, you know, as far as beauty definitely non toxic, just non toxic, you know, clean beauty. I used to harbor quite a bit because she's a friend and you know, I've kind of got to try a lot of her products. But anything, you know, anything that's from the non toxic brands, I would, you know, definitely I've been in I've been doing that for like, you know, the last 15 or 20 years. So really not exposing yourself to chemicals through beauty. Because that's again, it's not just it's not just for skin health, you know, we expose ourselves to chemicals that are disruptive to their immune system to their hormones. So really watching that and you know, kind of going minimal I would say you know that with beauty it's you know, you want clean beauty and fewer products if possible. And you know, my big pet peeve is perfume definitely like fragrances you know, like the chemical perfume I just cannot do because I read somewhere there's five to 700 different chemicals mixed. So I was like, I don't want that I might try to do some kind of you know, essential oil blend or something like that.

Katie Chandler: 19:45

It's it's weird. I just like the last couple of years I've had a complete aversion to perfume and I used to wear it every single day I need to do just like I couldn't. It was always like so offensive to me for some reason. I don't know why.

Amy: 19:57

Yeah, yeah, I can't wear anything. I used to wear stuff

Unknown: 19:59

too because Yeah,

Natasha Coughlin: 20:01

yeah, well, you know what it is, again, I think we're so overloaded right our bodies are so overloaded with toxins that we have this you know, threshold of detox where we're just dealing with so much that adding this another kind of layer of of a toxic and that's just, you know, offensive sort of, you know, offensive to the body and the liver has to, you know, metabolize it in you go through it and get rid of it. That I think that's just kind of like the straw that breaks the camel's back. Yeah, you know, it's just to agree

Katie Chandler: 20:32

with that. Okay. All right, this next one, we'll call your five minute flow you just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber pink, do their five minutes away. What are you going to do to quickly get yourself together and ready and out the door into that Uber on time?

Natasha Coughlin: 20:46

Okay, so shower, I guess I've taken a shower, cold shower, the end, just you know, 30 seconds of like a super cold shower at the end. That's I guess I would say that's my other you know, wellness hack is the is a cold shower, you know, minimal minimal skincare or some kind of a you know, moisturizer and yeah, either like a touch of Harper or OSHA or Malibu or what else do I use? You know, I usually have a few so some Yeah, some kind of just a daytime moisturizer and mascara, usually just mascara, a little bit of blush, actual blush that I use on my lips as well, you know, like a one of those creamy, creamy blush things. So kind of a non toxic mascara, and Ilia or Pacific or something like that. And what else I'm I'm totally crazy about my theory, like jogger pants that I got, I got a couple of pairs two weeks ago. And now like that's what I put on in the morning, but like a white t shirt. And they're kind of cute and stylish, but they're still comfortable like joggers, almost so and I don't know how I lived without them until I bought them two weeks ago,

Amy: 22:01

but sounds amazing. Yeah,

Natasha Coughlin: 22:05

they're, you know, they're these high waisted. I mean, that's what I wear. Like there are pants

Amy: 22:11

but there's a really cute,

Natasha Coughlin: 22:13

very versatile anyway. Yeah. So that's, that's what I would do. Yeah, but I think just you know, again, having it's good having a schedule, having a plan, Ryan kind of like doing things consistently, like day after day. Like I know, I really went outside and got my little bit of, you know, a few minutes of sun I did my cold shower that always wakes me up. And that's kind of what it's meant to do. Right sort of grabs up metabolism gives you that jolt of energy. And yeah, from there, it's pretty, pretty simple, really nice. So it'd be prepared, I think being prepared, right? I really have my kind of my outfit in mind. I have my dis few, you know, skincare things on the calendar, it's all their glass of water, you know, always glass of water in the morning for mental health because again, like I tell my clients, you know, we all kind of feel slightly fuzzy and foggy in the morning because brain does shrink, you know, kind of microscopically overnight. So we do we do need a glass of water in the morning to kind of get get things going not just from the metabolism perspective, like it's good for for metabolism and sort of general energy, but the brain needs it as well.

Katie Chandler: 23:25

Get out of that morning brain fog. Nice. All right. Well, it sounds like you also gave us how you maintain your daily Nirvana from the outdoors? And would you say in your showers? Is there any other maintainer dealing?

Natasha Coughlin: 23:40

Oh, that's a tricky one. I don't know if I do we know. I think we covered it. It's hard, right? Yeah, it's just you know, things things happen, right? I mean, Life is stressful. So true. The things always happened. But um, well, I have to mention in this again, going back to mental health, alcohol, like I don't, I don't drink alcohol at all. And I feel like it does, again, there's research that you know, alcohol, lowers our stress resilience. So I feel like that's might be one of the things that's helping me you know, it's like you get up in the morning and you don't have that little bit of a, you know, hangover thing. And, you know, you can sort of deal with whatever life throws at you that day. Better. You know, because I kind of have a good start, right and sleep. I mean, I know we didn't even touch on sleep, but obviously, so huge. You know, sleep is like, disrupted sleep is the best way to drive someone crazy, right? Yeah, physically. So yeah,

Katie Chandler: 24:41

I can. I can everything. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, Natasha, thank you so much for your time. This gave us a lot of great information. I know our listeners are gonna love it. We really appreciate your time. And before we go, we like to wrap with a mantra or an affirmation. So let's wrap up this one. I think it's appropriate. Good health is a practice and I have patients. So just to remember to set it right.

Natasha Coughlin: 25:10

All right, but like that, yeah, nothing nothing happens overnight. I mean, all of these practices that we've been talking about, like they only work if they're consistent, like you can't just do it for a couple of days and say, you know, throw in a towel, you know, this doesn't work.

Amy: 25:25

Consistency is every soldier. Yeah. Yeah, well, so nice to meet you. We could like talk to you for hours. I feel like we need to have you back safe like so many more questions in my head. But this has been so informational and helpful, and I know our listeners are going to love it. So thank you again for being on the show. We'll make sure to be thank

Natasha Coughlin: 25:41

you guys it was so while it was so fun.

Amy: 25:45

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 74 - Eating For Mental Health - How To Fuel Your Brain With Natasha Coughlin, Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 74.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome to the show Nirvana sisters family. This week we are very excited to introduce Natasha Coghlan. Natasha is an integrative and functional dietician, nutritionist and holistic health coach. She received her Master's of Science and Human Nutrition degree from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons. She's completed her master's thesis work at Weill Cornell comprehensive metabolic weight control center. And she worked with many clients ranging from endocrine issues, diabetes, prediabetes, PCOS, thyroid disease, and so on. Although Natasha is classically trained dietician, her personal and professional interests have always been in the field of functional and integrative medicine. She's received a certification of holistic health coach through the Institute of Integrative Nutrition and a certification through the creative and functional nutrition Academy. Her interest is in health promoting cooking. And it's brought her to the natural gourmet Institute in New York City, which is all very interesting, I want to hear about that. And, again, we're she's trained in allergen free diets. And today, we're gonna be discussing a lot of topics, one of which is eating for mental health. So these are all really interesting topics. So welcome to the show, Natasha. Thank you. Thank you, Katie. It's good to see you. It's nice to meet you, Amy. And Bill, nice to meet you. Yeah, have you on your background is really

Amy: 1:59

vast and exciting. And we haven't had anyone like you on the show. So we're so excited to get into it and hear all about your wisdom. Yeah.

Natasha Coughlin: 2:08

Thank you. Thank you. It's really good to be here. Yeah, I've, you know, I spent several years in school. And this is as a mom of three. So this is kind of my, I guess, second third career really after being a stay at home mom. So I've started my practice in 2019. So this kind of kind of recent doing this, but really studying health and nutrition has been a lifelong journey. And I think as so many functional medicine practitioners are kind of come to it from a personal place where I was struggling with my own issues, digestive mostly, kind of that feeling of never feeling well, and not finding any answers and answers from conventional doctors. So that brought me to, you know, looking for answers. And then my son's diagnosis with autism was definitely the impetus for just doing a lot of research. And you know, then finally getting my formal education and starting my own practice, and now, helping people with variety of different conditions, which I enjoy and love, and certainly getting that, you know, oh my God, no one has ever told me this before. Like, I feel so much better. So that's super, super

Katie Chandler: 3:16

rewarding. It's amazing. Alright, well, before we get into all of our questions, we have a lot for you. Let's kick it off with our nirvana of the week. So Amy, do you want to start us off with what your Nirvana was this week?

Amy: 3:27

Yeah. So I would say and this is probably a lot of people's nirvana. Over the last few weeks, my kids started school this week, which has been really nice to just get back into the routine routine. I feel like summer flew by and I wasn't quite ready for back to school, but I'm starting to ease into it. I'm just not used to the new schedule, even though we just had it a couple of months ago. It just feels like summer was long, but summer was short. So I'm excited for them to get back to school and get on a routine and just stick it back into their back into the swing of things. So that was definitely nirvana for me this week. What about UK?

Katie Chandler: 4:03

I think I had a couple of buddies. We had a party on Saturday, it was kind of like the Labor Day weekend party, if you will. And we just had some friends over and it was probably one. As Amy knows, I've mentioned this a few times that we did a lot of hosting this summer. It was probably one of the times that I hosted that I just like really let loose and didn't care and had a good time. I wasn't so good. You actually yeah, it wasn't so crazy about all the hosting duties and just kind of let loose and have fun. So that was really nice. And the kids had a great time. It was gorgeous. Yeah, what about unit Tasha?

Natasha Coughlin: 4:36

Well, I'm thinking of just yesterday morning, I came downstairs to pack my sixth grader for school. And she was already downstairs unloading the dishwasher. Like oh, I was like, are you okay? Do you want just make yourself breakfast and stuff I might come down and you know, pack your lunch but you look like you're all set. You know, it's still early. So I think I literally went back upstairs and you know, read a book for a little bit and then Add or some, you know, that was, you know, that was kind of fun. I was like, Okay, this is something new and new and different and and then last week I went to Vermont with my son, which was I just can't not mention that because we went swimming in this beautiful, what you're sort of waterhole with a waterfall and then we had the most delicious maple roast chicken at like a local diner minimally so. So seeing huge smile on his face, just kind of, and he's, you know, he's my guy with autism. So, as a mom, you're only as happy as your most miserable child. So he was smiling. I was happy. So definitely, definitely in Nirvana right there.

Katie Chandler: 5:37

So nice. It wasn't just the two of you that went to Vermont together.

Natasha Coughlin: 5:41

It was just the two of us. Me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Amy: 5:43

that's, that's special of that

Katie Chandler: 5:45

time together. All right, well, let's dive into it. Because we have a lot to cover, I think the best place to start is to help us better understand this overarching kind of theme, I guess, that you have of eating for mental health, because this feels like a new approach that not a lot of people have maybe thought about. And I understand the respect of, you know, you're a well balanced meal, and it's filled with nutrients and vitamins and things. But it can seem like a big mountain to climb to really achieve that. So how how do you address that with your clients? And what does all of that mean to you?

Natasha Coughlin: 6:22

Well, I think when I was, you know, kind of preparing for this conversation, I thought of, you know, what are the messages that I want to put out. And the big thing that I just sort of kept coming back to is, you know, we need to demystify what mental health is, because I think the whole concept of the human mind that is so complex, and so dependent on what the outside world is putting out, right, or the chaos, the you know, con me political situation, you know, what the boss is doing, thinking, et cetera, we kind of have to, I think, get away from that a little bit and look inward. And I feel like a lot of times, mental health issues are more of a result of like, not what's happening around us, but what's kind of happening on the inside. And I think the whole concept of you know, the human mind sort of lives in the physical body, right, the human mind resides in the human brain. So we have to remember that, that the brain is, you know, it is part of our physical health. So we need to sort of think of it in the same way we think of supporting heart health, immune health, etc. So really making sure that we are providing the brain with what it needs, and you know, with the right conditions, and not sabotaging it, by doing certain things that are interfering it from being well, because ultimately, the body really does want to be well. And I really believe that, right, that whole concept of homeostasis, where everything has to work together just right. And, you know, when when something is, has gone awry in the body, the body really wants to get back to the place of health and healing, we just have to provide the right condition. So I think where I'm going with that is, you know, fuel just making sure as you were saying, Katie, the brain needs the fuel right? The brain needs that protein to make the neurotransmitters which are the chemical messengers that kind of sent the messages between the nerve cells back and forth and also between the nerve cells and the rest of the body, right? I mean, that's how we move our arm or, you know, whatever we do, it comes from that signal. So neurotransmitters, neurotransmitters do that. And they're proteins they're made from proteins or from amino acids, which are the components of protein that we eat so we have to make sure we eat enough of course you know I'm sure there's a lot of talk about protein just from other you know, for maintaining lean muscle mass and for you know, for healthy aging etc. But just on the most basic sort of brain level is we need adequate protein to make sure we can make those neurotransmitters and then things like healthy fats right omega threes everyone is talking about you know, your salmon and sardines and things like that brain is mostly fat, it's you know, 60 65% fat so we have to make sure what that we're getting those omega threes whether from eating those healthy foods or from supplements and a lot of times I mean honestly with my clients it is very difficult with especially with pollution by we're all hearing that fish is kind of contaminated so it's hard to get all the Omega threes that we need from fish. So I do supplement across the board from you know, children to certainly into you know, the older years and you know, with slightly different composition of the DHA and the EPA, which is a to name fatty acids, you know, in the the mega threes. So, that's really you know, that's, that's really kind of a big one, you know, and then of course, everyone Have other vitamins and minerals, which mostly come from all our plant foods. So you kind of need those, you know, you need the protein and fat for those main sort of macronutrients. And then you have to fill in everything else with fruits and vegetables, and, you know, all those all those things that come from, you know, mostly from plant foods. So I think that's really, yes, you know, brain is complicated, you know, feelings, thoughts, etc. But we really need to support the physical health aspect of

Amy: 10:29

it. I was going to ask about, so from a protein standpoint, you mentioned, that's my thing that correctly omega three fats? Yeah, I guess three fats, and what is the best kind of protein? So I just generally speaking, like,

Natasha Coughlin: 10:46

Well, I'm a big proponent of just, you know, variety, I feel like we really need to be a variety of different foods. And, you know, my clients hear me say about, you know, rotation and kind of making sure that you, and I think I know, you guys, you know, this will probably come up in the conversation somewhere, you know, when meal planning are usually planned for a different protein, you know, for dinner every night. So it will be you know, chicken, fish, Turkey, you know, red meat, maybe once a week, something like that. So, Amy, as you were saying, you know, something like chicken breast, yes, it has plenty of protein, it has some other vitamins and minerals, but it may not have the same as, you know, chicken thighs, which is dark meat, you know, we might have something different in that, you know, more collagen, which again, is kind of needed for, you know, immune health, skin health, certainly brain health as well. So I think the best way to go is to vary your sources, and, you know, eat kind of the whole animal. I love roast chicken, like organic roast chicken from Whole Foods, definitely, you know, at least once a week, it's easy. It's somehow it seems inexpensive. Now, actually, when you think about that whole chicken for $12. And like, I can't even buy a pack of organic chicken breasts for $12. Now, so. So yeah, so something like that. And then I would actually use the bones to make stock in my Insta pot. So that's that, then you get the minerals from the bones, and you get the college and all of that, especially as we're going into the winter months, and I do like animal protein, I'm not a, you know, I am sort of an advocate for the plant forward plant heavy kind of style of eating, but I'm, you know, not vegetarian, and I did not, you know, advocate for being, you know, purely plant based, because I think, you know, animal protein is important, it's very biologically kind of active and available to us. So that's, you know, that's kind of what I do. And that's, that's what I would recommend. So really big, you know, varying your sources. And as far as fish, you know, something more fatty like salmon, and especially if it's wild, right, wild caught is better than farmed. And much better, I should say, I wouldn't even do farmed salmon, really. So. But you know, fish can be hard. You know, with the kids, it's hard to kind of get it in all that much. But a couple of times a week is great. And then all the other times it can be you know, other sources? And I certainly do I completely Meatless meals, like a crispy tofu, or something like that as a sort of a once a week option. So I would say that's, that's kind of what I recommend and do with my family. And

Amy: 13:22

yeah, I was gonna say to it's hard to get a lot of protein. If you're more plant forward, I find to get enough protein in if you're not eating fish, or chicken or something else.

Natasha Coughlin: 13:34

Yeah. Right. And that's where that's where I see even kind of circling back to mental health. There's research that suggests that there is more anxiety and depression in vegetarians, because they don't get enough protein. Because a lot of times unless you're working with someone who's really creating a meal plan for you, or even cooking for you, it is difficult to really get everything you need. As a vegetarian and certainly vegan. I mean, being vegan would be really hard to get all the nutrients

Katie Chandler: 14:04

we I've I've tried a vegan diet for a very brief period of time, and I had to work with a nutritionist to try to make sure I was getting everything out. And it was it was not easy. So you you had mentioned your son has autism. And do you imagine apply the same aspects for his diet? As Do you feel that food can help with things like autism, ADHD? Like you said, Yes, you agree to anxiety and depression, everything. So across the

Natasha Coughlin: 14:36

board, I'm shaking my head as you can see, yeah, yes.

Katie Chandler: 14:40

What do you suggest or recommend for parents with children? You know, my daughter has ADHD and we've thought about trying to tweak her diet and everything to improve that. And actually her pediatrician, I was shocked, advised me against it. And let me I'll tell you exactly why he said really so because you The result that it would yield is nominal in comparison to the stress that I would put my child under by like restricting her and things like that, and maybe it would cause food issues. And, and, you know, I mean, I am British is I can understand that but I was a little I was a little surprised by by his stance on that. So what is your opinion?

Natasha Coughlin: 15:24

Well, I think a lot of times, you know, when people don't understand something or don't, you know, don't practice something, they they're much more likely to dismiss it and say this is too. I mean, just a quick example, I went to a talk by a surgeon of gastrointestinal surgeon who was talking about reflux, right, treating reflux. And to me, like, this is something I do every day we do it with diet and certain, you know, lifestyle modifications. Well, this person was saying, okay, medications, then diet, oh, no, no one wants to do that, okay, surgery, we have this really great, you know, and that was sitting there just, you know, in my jaw completely dropped. I was like, really, like, we go to surgery that quickly and completely dismissing what diet can do for something like reflux. So, you know, I'm kind of not surprised. I mean, it's unfortunate, you know, a lot of times people who have gone through medical school, you know, 2025 years ago, they did not get any hours of nutrition instruction, I mean, they kind of do now a little bit like 20 accurate about 20 hours of nutrition and four years in medical school. So that's certainly not something that doctors now but I, again, from my perspective, thinking of, you know, the brain and the body and how they're connected, you know, changing the fuel definitely changes the way the brain works. So, you know, giving it the right fuel and taking away those things that are, you know, we know that there are things that are excitatory for the brain and there are things that are inhibitory for the brain. And all those things come from the food that we eat. So I absolutely believe that you can you know, you can influence the the you can influence behavior through changing the fuel that we take in and how we you know, how we fuel our bodies. So, yeah, just to answer your I guess, the first part of your question, I mean, with my son you know, he eats a very plant heavy diet with you know, organic, grass fed animal protein, lots of fats, you know, coconut oil out like I'm a huge fan of olive oil and mega threes, both fish and supplements. Yeah, so very limited grains very limited processed foods, and that's sort of how he grew up and you were saying, you know, creating issues I have two other kids they you know, they're great eaters, I mean, they they don't have any issues with you know, we don't have soda in the house. So like we don't really have you know, cookies and this and that and that I mean, I do have cookies that you know, I tell my girls like okay, it's every couple of days or you know, don't make it a habit it's not really something that the body needs, you know, the body needs that all the stuff that's in the you know, the vegetable drawer in the fridge, or like in the fruit bowl and the calendar the body needs those and the body doesn't need the you know, the cookies and all the processed stuff but you know, all being said I have a little bit of those of course because sometimes you need convenience. And I don't find that you know, that can create any kind of issues unless you know, you become very restrictive and I think the best way to get kids interested in food is definitely by you know, giving them a chance to cook you know, to cook with you when kind of chop things and I always ask kids what they want you know, even though I really have a plan I mean I meal plan so it's not it's a bit of it, but an illusion, but I still ask them what they chicken or shrimp you know, I have both because I you know, I shopped for, you know, three or four days so, do you think you know eating kind of is close to all you know, the real foods that don't come out of the box is what can ultimately you know, make our behavior better and sort of prevent the you know, prevent the highs and lows and all those things.

Katie Chandler: 19:10

You say this is what the body needs, the body needs this the body doesn't need this it's a great way to say it to your child to better help them understand we need this to grow and to be big and strong. This is not going to do that for us. So I'm gonna have to start using that trick because all my kids went or like salty processed snacks when they ran home from school and I'm trying to like here have the have the fruit and have cheese and or the smoothie and you know, so it's definitely a transition that has to go on in this house.

Amy: 19:42

Yeah, I also think the the food as fuel is a good way to frame it too because they can envision like the fuel in your car or your cell phone fuel battery, like you got to charge up that battery versus like but yeah, I mean, I have teenage boys I mean, I'm not was 13 and almost 16. And it's very difficult to balance like last night for example, I made meatballs out of bison meat, which is good organic, but then I put it on pasta because I'm like, What am I? You know, it's either rice or pasta or like what else do I put it with to make it like a meal. So I always also find it hard to cook especially for boys where like they need like food do like you have to be really really creative. Like I'm like I'm not even sure what else I would give them besides rice or pasta with that even though that's not great, because it's grains.

Natasha Coughlin: 20:32

Right? Well I'm just because you mentioned the balls, what I do in my house for and you said you need volume, great veggies into your meatballs. So especially for something that's a little like dry you're like bison, greats and zucchini, carrots, like finely chopped mushrooms and just mix that with your you know, with your ground beef that actually makes you know makes volume but it just makes that meat so much juicy and make the meatballs or like sometimes it just like shaved them into like burger, you know, burger shapes, you get you get some of the vegetables right in with that. And you know what I do, I usually kind of, you know, I plan for a protein and then two vegetables. So I've been even with something like rice, we've been making a lot of fried rice like a veggie fried rice and I'm not you know, I'm not doing the whole like song and dance with the egg and all the steps. I mean just sotae all the finely chopped veggies. And then you know cooked rice that's a little you know, cooled a little and you just kind of mix it with that. And so you have your veggie rice to serve with the veggie, you know, turkey meatballs, or the veggie bison, bison meatball meatball. So you have, you know, you kind of have the best of both worlds there. And, you know, potatoes, sweet potatoes, like what kinds of roast you know, roasted veggies. I'm a big fan of, and always always something great. Like I tell my kids you know, green beans, broccoli, asparagus, you know, some kind of a green veggie, I have a lot of green beans in my garden right now. So I've been actually it's been super exciting.

Amy: 22:09

That's good. Yeah, my kids do eat green beans. So that's just me serving more.

Katie Chandler: 22:14

Well, this next bit is a little bit personal for me, because it's regarding paleo and you were just the you know, talking about veggie forward and in protein and not a lot of grains and everything. And that's very much a paleo as and I don't know, how you feel about the defined labeled diets as such. But I have just found it's easy for me with my autoimmune conditions to kind of keep inflammation down by following a, you know, like, a paleo heavy diet. And it really does make a massive difference. And it's funny because I go through these phases, when they go, I can eat all the carbs and whatever I want. And it doesn't bother me. And then I sit back and I realize, Oh, of course this is this is why I felt horrible that day, you know, so when I'm better about it, when I'm really diligent, it makes a huge difference. So is is do you do the Paleo diet with your clients? Or how do you feel about it?

Natasha Coughlin: 23:08

I do. I mean, yeah, for autoimmune disease. I mean, there's there's several different things, you know, it's kind of an AIP protocol, right, the autoimmune protocol, which is sort of your paleo but excludes eggs. So there's a little bit of trial and error and all the diets again, like I don't like to sort of subscribe to one thing. Because we again, we understand that grains can be inflammatory, they activate part of the immune system. And anytime there's immune system activation, that's inflammation, right? That's what that's, you know, what can create inflammation. So, with that, certainly with someone who has a diagnosis, definitely, that's for me, that's kind of a low hanging fruit, like, that's what we go with, you know, no grains, no legumes. And, you know, a lot of times we get good results for sure. I mean, sometimes you have to do the no eggs. I usually tried to do some kind of a elimination diet even further, just based on testing of, you know, food sensitivities. But but it definitely, you know, that's that's sort of what's documented. I mean, there isn't that much formal research, but anything that we're kind of seeing out there in literature is pointing out that, you know, Paleo style diet is helpful for autoimmune conditions and can not only treat them but also, you know, reverse them because as you know, conventional medicine doesn't believe in cure for autoimmunity. It's sort of one of those, you know, we're not sure why it happens, you know, your immune system attacks self. I remember I put something I posted something on Instagram about the, you know, the development of autoimmune disease and a lot of people were surprised that, you know, one of the conditions that are necessary for the development of autoimmunity is the leaky gut or the hyper permeability of the digestive tract, which again, to me, no matter what kind of condition a client comes to me with, we always look at Got, except, you know, I think I had one client where she was like, my digestion is great. And, you know, I go, you know, I'm super ideal and I was like, Okay, you're kind of a unicorn. So I am just gonna, you know, do other things. But in most cases, we'll look at gut health. And I really do believe that you know, all disease begins in the gut. So I think paleo diet works for auto immunity, because it is helping to kind of tamper down that inflammation and heal the leaky gut, which is normally the underlying sort of condition of why the autoimmune disease develops.

Amy: 25:34

I have a question about AI, get migraines, but vestibular migraines, and I'm wondering if any foods would be helpful for that? Because I don't know if that's related to the gut at all, or if it's more, I mean, it's more nerve related, I guess, but I'm just curious on your thoughts around something like that, like headaches, migraines, vestibular dizziness, vertigo type things?

Natasha Coughlin: 26:03

Yeah. Yes, headaches and migraines are kind of, you know, they're tricky because they seem so kind of removed from they certainly seem removed from the gut, right? That's kind of like what we call extra intestinal symptoms of something that might be going on in the gut. So I would I definitely look at gut health with anybody with headaches and migraines. And just just a couple of days ago, actually, I have a client with migraines, like three times a week, you know, debilitating. We've been working together for several months. And it was mostly on kind of taking things out of her diet, you know, really I mean, she's, she's sort of playing the detective and, and making sense of things for her, you know, scientifically. So we've been taking things out and you know, we started with any sources of glutamate, which is an excess, sort of, it's an amino acid that's excitatory. So a lot of times people with migraines and you know, migraine headaches are sensitive to glutamate in the diet. So MSG, certainly like you know, and Chinese food, processed foods, those would be an issue. A lot of some mushrooms a heightened glutamate walnuts behind glutamate, there's some you know, there's some foods that are high and glutamate that we kind of started to, you know, take out one by one that helped that sort of went down to, you know, one migraine every seven days. And then we started working on histamine, which again, is is you know, as an immune system reaction, right. And it's something that is also related to leaky gut. Interestingly enough, histamine sensitivity usually results when someone has that hyper permeability of their, you know, in the digestive tract lining. So we started working on, you know, reduction of histamine. And, you know, last I spoke with her, she said, 19 days without a migraine, so that was like, yeah, so food, I mean, food is, food is magic. A friend of mine was saying that the other day, you know, food is magic. We really, you know, when we change, how we fuel our body, we can really see the difference. One of the things like, you know, for instance, like ketogenic diet is a treatment for epilepsy, because again, brain is so receptive to changes in the fuel, right? You go from glucose to fats, all the sudden the whole kind of neurotransmission changes. So that's, you know, headaches and migraines. Definitely. I mean, they're, you know, they vary again, you were saying might be something more structural. I don't know if you've had, you know, scans to kind of see exactly what's Yeah, what's going on. But

Amy: 28:39

interesting, though, no one actually, this is years ago, when I went through the journey of like, figuring out all this stuff. No one talks about the guy ever, but uh, you know, I got scans, I did this test that test, blah, blah, blah. But I never did anything with the guy, which is interesting. No one ever talks about my diet now that I'm thinking about it. I changed my diet myself. Yeah, but no one really talks about it, which is actually interesting. And I was going to ask you about the histamine thing that you mentioned, what does that mean? Like what kind of foods have histamines in them?

Natasha Coughlin: 29:06

I mean, is something that we produce and need and we get from the foods, but some people just don't kind of lack the enzyme and sometimes, you know, sometimes it's genetically the genetic predisposition, predisposition or that leaky you know, there's the whole leaky gut condition but histamine is like an leftovers for instance, when you keep your especially animal protein leftovers histamine content builds up you know, seafood like you know, shrimp assign histamine bone broth, interestingly enough, you know, lead to healthy food, but a tiny histamine. So, yeah, there's, there's kind of a whole, you know, group of foods that are that are high and those, you know, they may be a problem for people who do not have enough of the histamine breaking enzyme that for example, if you've ever had your 23andme or ancestry done, it actually has your entire genome. So this is something that can be run through like a platform, and they can decode everything that has to do with your health that like 23andme doesn't give you and they actually look at the at the enzyme to which one is the it's a D. So it's the enzyme is called da l. But how do you get that tested? So 20? You say I can do it through 2323? And me? Yeah. And then they give you just defy like, the cola raw data file. Yeah. And then you can send it to me, and I would run it through this professional plateau. Interesting, and kind of

Katie Chandler: 30:34

that's very cool. Does it show you also if you heard is that the mother gene? How do you say it? I'm saying it wrong? It's Oh, they empty? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. See, they're not?

Natasha Coughlin: 30:45

Yeah, well, they'd have I mean, we have, you know, 24,000 genes. This particular one, of course, you already have the raw data from 23. And me, and then the, you know, AI just scans it for any genes that are pertinent to nutrition exercise, you know, anything that's actionable, right? Because 23andme gives you silly stuff like is your ear lobe attached to detached? And I'm like, Well, mine is detached and I can see it and it kind of doesn't really give me anything. But if I see that, you know, I have a mutation and my vitamin D receptor, and my vitamin D just never budges you know, now I know now I know I need to be taking you know, twice as much or three times as much of my vitamin D supplement as I normally do to kind of move the needle on that. That's interesting.

Katie Chandler: 31:35

We hope you liked this episode with Natasha Coghlan. Stay tuned for part two, where we talk about gut health and much much more.

Amy: 31:44

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 71 - Breaking Down Ayurvedic With Justine Lemos, Phd - Do You Know What Dosha You Are? (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 71 - Breaking Down Ayurvedic With Justine Lemos, Phd - Do You Know What Dosha You Are?

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman,

Katie: 0:18

and I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome to the show Nirvana sisters. We are sitting down today with Justine Lemos, Justine is an IU VEDA practitioner, PhD and founder of Shakti path. Today, Justine is going to help us better understand IU beta practices and all that it entails, we're going to touch on a few other really interesting topics like Tantra and Kundalini and so much more. But we want to get into the nitty gritty of what IU beta is, and Justine, what you do for your clients and how it helps people improve their wellness, their health and their well being. So thank you for coming to the show.

Justine: 1:10

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. And I really appreciate it. Yeah,

Katie: 1:16

we're gonna take a step back really quickly, because we like to start our show with a nirvana of the week or of the day, whatever your Nirvana may be. So I'm just going to kick it to me first. What was your Nirvana Ami?

Amy: 1:28

Oh, let's see. Well, I think my Nirvana from today was Katy and I had a really great meeting this morning with someone that we just totally vibed with, to talk about some future stuff for Nirvana sisters and retreats. And just, it's always nice to meet someone that's in your space and who's like minded and it just kind of like rejuvenates all your ideas and creativity. So it's just like really nice to meet her. So that was my nirvana of the day. Just connecting. What about

Katie: 1:56

that? Yeah, I love that. That was a great moment. I think mine was just right before we got on, as you can tell, I have my bathing suit on which is not super professional, but I just did like 10 laps in my pool. And it was my exercise for the day and I felt really great afterwards. It was just kind of invigorating woke me up. So it was good. I don't I don't do laps. Often, though. It's hard. It's really, really hard. But I know it's such a great workout. So it was good. It was very nice. What about you just seeing what was yours?

Unknown: 2:25

I got up really early like as the sun was just rising and just had this really beautiful glowing meditation like in the early early Amrit nectar hours of this morning. So that was just really nice.

Amy: 2:39

Wow, that sounds lovely. And for our listeners, we were just talking before we got on Justine lives in Northern California near the redwoods. So we were just listening to her the dreamy landscape that she's around. So super, super cool. Okay, so let's get into it because I've heard this word and I've heard people talk about it, but I really don't know what it means and what it entails. So kind of give us the one on one tell us about the world of IR VEDA if I'm even saying it right and what it all means.

Unknown: 3:07

So I You're a why you are i you it means life. And Veda means knowledge, or teaching or science we could even say science. So I or Veda is the science of life. It's the knowledge of how to live life with the most joy and bliss and radiance possible. And joy and bliss and radiance and health in iron VEDA from an Ayurvedic perspective, is really a state of equanimity, a state of balance, but also a state of deep engagement. It's not like we achieve some ivory tower that then we're like crystallized and we don't do anything. No, it's the science of being alive and how to live well. Really, how do you live well from birth until death, like having the most juicy and wonderful life possible. So this is what I Aveda is it's a science of wellness but more than just the science of wellness. It's not just a philosophy of how to live but practice of how to live and it's sister sciences are yoga, and Jyotish Vedic Astrology, also Tantra. And so, in that knowledge of how to live under that umbrella, it's inclusive of lifestyle, daily lifestyle routines, and tips and things that we do to move throughout the day things that we do to move throughout a week. Things that we do through to move throughout a month, a lunar cycle, things that we do to move throughout a season or a time in life. We're very different when we're children. We need different care when we're children, and we do when we're in middle age than we would do when we You're old. And so under that vast umbrella, it includes nutrition. It includes herbal remedies, it includes essential oils, it includes cleansing, it includes all ways to process emotion. It includes all of these things because it really examines the person as a whole. So it has under its rubric, forms of psychology as well as forms of nutrition. And, as I Aveda has come into the West, mostly via yoga and Yoga Journal, unfortunate unfortunately, it has been, like categorized as just another diet system, like the Paleo like some people like I'm paleo or I do keto, or I do this or that and instead it's like, oh, no, I eat pie or basically, well, that's great. I'm glad if you eat from an Ayurvedic perspective that is wonderful for your health and wellness. But I Aveda is not just that it's a whole science of being alive.

Amy: 6:02

And is it's kind of a lifestyle that one would practice which would include all different types of elements.

Unknown: 6:09

Um, it can be yes, it can be a lifestyle, it can also be used to remedy you know, as a practitioner of Ayurveda, I'll have people that will come to me because you know, they have eczema or they have hot flashes, or they have difficult menstrual cycle or whatever it is. And then we can use it to remedy imbalances in the body, much as you would use Chinese medicine or another, so called alternative practice of health and wellness. But then once things are in their balance, then yes, we live an eye or Vedic lifestyle to maintain balance and wellness and radiance in the body. Yeah, in the body and in the mind,

Katie: 6:57

where does it originate from?

Unknown: 6:59

So the origins of Ayurveda are in ancient India, it's a system that has been around for about 5000 years of experimentation and trial and error. And we pull that knowledge through from about 5000 years to the modern day era.

Katie: 7:18

Okay, is there any connection, I recently started doing Transcendental Meditation and there's a connection there because it's the TM is basic is that, if

Unknown: 7:27

so, like, all of the sciences, that have their origins in ancient India, are all intertwined. They're all intertwined, like the, like the branches of a tree. And so Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who brought Transcendental Meditation, TM to the west, was also very involved as a vida as an Ayurvedic practitioner. And he actually has a whole school of Ayurveda, and a whole product line that I think is a very, very good product line called Maharishi Ayurveda products International. One reason why I think that that product line is so, so great is because they tripled, test their herbs for heavy metals, which is not frequently done. And sometimes people can get into like taking ashwagandha. And it might not be the most pure, even if it says organic because of how testing is done. And that company has the formulas that were created by some very great either Vedic by just AI or Vedic knowledge holders, or Vedic doctors, if you will, it's more than just a doctor, and they sell those particular format formulas rebranded. And so yes, there's absolutely an overlap between TM and Ayurveda. That said, just because we're practicing TM doesn't mean we're practicing IR Veda and just because we're practicing IRB doesn't mean we're necessarily a TM practitioner like that. Yeah.

Katie: 8:59

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. All right. So it's very vast and broad, as you said, and I, I want to think of the best way to kind of tackle it to bring to our listener to help them understand how they could use ionic practices for themselves, where do you think is a good place for someone to start?

Unknown: 9:23

So, thank you for asking. One of the wisdoms that we have inherited from Ayurveda is the wisdom of the doshas, and this will probably you may have heard of or your listeners may have heard of that, Ayurveda talks about three universal intelligences, that manifest in the universe that manifests through us that manifest in all of reality. And these three universal intelligences are Vata, Pitta and Kapha. And so, this is becoming more and more frequently found term analogy. Now, what are these doshas? How do they manifest? How do we figure out which dosha we are because we all carry a predominant dosha something that is like our cardinal blueprint. And if we can learn to live well in that blueprint, then we then our body, and our mind does really well. So Vata dosha is like air and ether. It's like air and ether, it's very rough and light and dry and movable and changeable. And people who have more Vata dosha in their constitution, tend to be very thin ectomorphic Very wiry, very creative. But because air is always moving around, they tend towards anxiety, they tend towards dryness in the body, they can tend towards constipation, they can tend towards disrupted sleep, all these types of things are typical kinds of vata, dosha, aggravation, pitta, dosha, people are like fire and a little bit of water, the really intense, they're really penetrating, these are the type A personalities like you find them in the boardroom, you find them as the, like intense athletes, you find them doing extreme sports, and they tend towards problems of too much heat, like hot flashes, like rashes, like anger, like irritation, like frustration, all these things are pitta, dosha, typical imbalance, and then they're Kapha dosha people, I'll empathize with people that are like muscular, they're athletic, you know, they're like the strong gymnasts, etc. Ca for those who people are like earth and water. So this is very steady, very slow, very sweet energy. And these people tend to have larger bodies and tend towards, towards the laziness, like, they just want to relax and enjoy. And they're the sweetest people to be around, they don't put any pressure on you, and they give you like the best hugs, like we all have a Kapha dosha Fred, and we're like, oh, that person and they're just so nice to us, right. But Kapha dosha people can tend towards weight gain, it's like very hard for them to lose weight, they can tend towards like hoarding and greediness and real emotional repression and these types of things. And so, how these three doshas interplay in each of us, and how one is more dominant for each of us, and knowing which one is most dominant for each of us, gives us a clue for how to live our life. Because, like increases, like, like increases like this means, and like, I have a lot of Vata dosha. Go for a Vata dosha. Person travel is really Vata dosha. aggravating because it's more movement, or being at elevation is really aggravating or cold weather is really aggravating. So like the worst thing a Vata dosha person can do to keep them is to go up to a mountaintop in the winter and try to run a marathon, like that's a no go. And if that person does it, when they finish that marathon, they're going to be all depleted, and they're going to be out of balance, and they're not going to feel good, right? They need to be like covered in warm blankets and eating warm soup and oiling their body so that they don't get all dried out. So at the at the most simple level, which is just working with opposites and like opposites and similarities to create balance in the body and in the mind. And at the soul level.

Katie: 13:53

It's It's interesting as you're I was thinking of all the people that I know, that are each thing, right, weren't you, Amy? Were you doing the same thing?

Amy: 14:03

Yeah. And then I was thinking, what am I and that's, that was my, my next question was going to be so there's the three what are they called, again? dosha shares? So does everybody have all three? Or is it just like there's one that's more dominant? Because I was thinking like, I'm probably a combination of a lot of Yes, yeah. So how does one like kind of figure out what one's more prominent or

Unknown: 14:27

so we all have all three. If we didn't, we'd be dead. Okay, the Kapha dosha is our immunity and our strength and our stability, Pitta. dosha, is how we transform things, how we digest things, how we digest food, and Vata dosha is our nervous system. It's how we communicate, it's how we move, but it's like, you know, one of those like graphs, were like one of those bar graphs where you've got a lot of one and less of the others. Yeah, and so most of us have one or two that's like, really pumped up, and one that is just less in All right, so you probably have a lot of Pitta and some vata and maybe less Kapha. Like that. I'm just if I had to guess just looking at you because we can look at certain things in the body and the face and the eyes that give us a clue. As to those doshas, right now, we can do like a quiz online, I have a quiz, there's like these different ways, the best way is to go to a practitioner, because they're really going to be able to tell you, we can do some self analysis, like, really, if we look at our bone structure, our body shape, like there's stuff like if your finger overlaps around your wrist, like how it, you know, that will give us some clue, like, if you're very small boned, you probably have more Vata dosha. Like, I'm a very small person, but that but I'm not completely Vata dosha I definitely have some Pitta dosha I definitely have like muscular strength and like I'm slightly athletic. And truly, truly Vata dosha people can appear like emaciated. It's like the Twiggy model, you know what I mean? Like those people who are just like, Oh my God, you're like bone sticking everywhere, not because of an eating disorder. That's just who they are and how they are. We can also feel it in like the handshake of a person like, like if the hands are very cold and kind of a limp handshake. That's a Vata dosha person like very strong warm handshake that the Pitta dosha person, like a warm, soft pillow, or just a soft pillow around your hand, that's going to be a more Kapha dosha person. The other thing I like to say, which is probably not PC, but it's okay, I'm gonna say it anyhow. Is that like, but shape is a really clear indication of dosha and this is not about shaming at all. Let's hear this right. Vata dosha people like have no but like just disappears they've got no booty, like they can't shake it.

Amy: 16:58

Okay, that's not back there. Right? That's

Unknown: 17:01

the the Pitta dosha person there but like sticks out at you. Like they've got a really nice shelf spot, right? It's like, like that, you know, that like in its in its exalted form, it's like a really great gymnast but that perky and like it's not right, no, I do have pitta, dosha, you're probably pitta, dosha and the Cappadocia, but tends to go wide, like Kapha dosha, butts can be like this very beautiful round,

Amy: 17:30

that's me.

Unknown: 17:32

Know, maybe it could have picked us up kapha, right, you definitely have something to dosha that's there in the Constitution. But there are these ways of determining. And so then, like, you think about that, that bar graph, right, that's like, I have a lot of vata and I have some pitha and I have less cough up, but then we can get imbalanced. So we can be a Vata dosha person, but we can have an extreme pitta, dosha, balance, imbalance, rather, who are Vata dosha person, but all of a sudden, we've got a huge Pitta dosha imbalance, like because we're eating tons of garlic, and tons of chili, and we're sunbathing all day long. And we're just doing all these things. And we're angry, we're angry about our job that is looking into a computer screen, which is really fiery to the senses. And then all of a sudden, we get imbalance, we get hot flashes, or we get rashes, or we get anger, or we get irritability. So you can be a constitutional type and have an imbalance that is from a different dosha.

Amy: 18:34

Yeah, it's funny that we were saying that, because I was thinking like, my wrists are really small. And then I've seen my butt's on, like, it's not the shelf. But so it's like, it's interesting that you're saying that so essentially, is it like, you have maybe two dominant one not as dominant, dominant, and then you, you basically work, you do practices to make sure that you're staying in that balance. And then if it gets off balance, there are things you can do to get it back in that balance.

Unknown: 19:00

That's precisely the right back in that balance for you. Right, not for somebody else. And that's the magic of the whole system is like, you know, if we go to the Western doctor, the Western doctor gives the 250 pound man the same bed that they give to me as like, extremely small woman, right? Yeah. And that that's like, I mean, maybe they'll reduce the dosage but it's essentially the same medication, I Aveda says no, like, you are different. You are unique. You need the medicine that is right for you. And that meant and that everything in the world can be medicine. It's very beautiful.

Amy: 19:38

Yes, that is beautiful. And you were talking about hormonal balance and hot flashes and things like that. And so that also leads me to believe that based on what type of woman you are, yeah, treat those types of things differently, which is so interesting, because I was talking to a friend the other day, and she's 50 and she was talking to me about she's like, well, I don't have any like Nana plus symptoms, but other people that are my age that are doing this and they're gonna happen. She's like, I don't know if any of that and so right that just made me think that they're doshas are different. Yes.

Unknown: 20:10

Does she more Kapha dosha in her body?

Amy: 20:14

Which one is that? The third one? You

Unknown: 20:15

mentioned that the third? Yes, yes and water and more grounded and a bit heavier in the body. Yeah, because she doesn't have that heat pumping through, and she has more grounding. And she has more what we call adjusts, which is like this beautiful life energy, which can also go sour and become toxic. But because she has that grounding, and actually, that fat layer creates a buffer to some of the hormonal imbalances that women who are more vata, more really skinny, more pitha more athletic and really intense, tend to get so there's this really, yes, you're exactly right. That's so exhausting. Now you now you've got it, you've got the whole thing.

Katie: 20:59

If you're, if you're imbalanced, what are some things that you can do to balance?

Unknown: 21:04

Yeah. So it really depends upon that particular person, what their imbalances, how much capacity they have for change. And one thing that I'm always looking to do in my practice, and in my courses is like, I could give you a list of like, 25, things to do, and things to eat and not eat and like, but if you don't do any of them, that's not going to work well. So instead, I want to give you like three things that will create massive shift for you. And then you'll feel so successful, and you'll feel better, and then you can take more change and make more shift, right smart, and, and so thank you. So it's really unique to what that imbalance is, and who that person is, right? We always have to be matching the the remedies to that person's constitution and to what the imbalance is, and looking for. This is the difference between a clinical practitioner which I am and like, a kind of lifestyle consultant or something, like I'm looking for how did this imbalance come to be? What are the deep roots of this imbalance? Like, is this an imbalance that you've been working on for 25 years? Is this an imbalance that actually has its origin in the relationship to your mother? Like, where did this come from? And go to the source of that and create like, deep profound change at the source of that?

Katie: 22:37

And do you have a lot of patients or clients that come to you that are dealing with things like autoimmune disease, or Lyme disease, like you know, these all of these different afflictions? Do you see a lot of that,

Unknown: 22:50

um, I do see some autoimmune, I do see a lot of hormone imbalance, how hormones shift like, that's a time when women are suddenly like, it can be a really a crisis time for women. And so, I see a lot of that. I also do a lot of work with sexuality, and, like sexual radiance, really, for women who are like, Wait, my hormones are shifting, I don't want to have sex or I have vaginal dryness or I have like, like, all these things going on. How do I how do I move through this? Like, what is this new pattern of being? So that's some somewhere that I really work with a lot to

Katie: 23:36

know. Does that touch on Tantra? Is that?

Unknown: 23:40

Oh, yeah.

Katie: 23:44

So tell us Yeah. All right. My only knowledge of it is hearing about sting and his beautiful wife practicing tantric sex. That's really all I've ever heard.

Unknown: 23:57

So, so, so Bali, oh my god, I love it so much. I forgot about that. Okay. So Tantra means to weave it means to weave together and Tantra is that we have to talk about Neo Tantra which is like kind of like westernized soulful sex, which is cool and great and why not like great up level your sex life. Go there with some incense friends, have a lot of fun. And then we can talk about some fat as a, as a philosophic current from ancient India. That presupposes that every aspect of the manifest world is divine, and is a pathway towards experiencing divinity and bliss. very radical, like everything, the trash dump pathway to divinity and bliss, like every single thing is a conduit. And therefore that contrast do teach us that sex and sexuality is one such pathway. And that it is fundamentally intertwined with our health well being and our radiance our vitality. And so that's what I'm gonna say about that.

Katie: 25:24

That's it. That's all you're gonna give us. Give us more. The GSC What do you want? Yeah. I mean, I, okay, so what I took from that was that your sexual desire, how much of a sexual being you feel how radiant and feminine you feel, is all part of your wellness, and to be able to tap into that, you know, for if a woman is struggling and going through hormonal imbalances, and has no sex drive. And then you just start to feel like you don't feel feminine anymore. And you start to feel like you're losing a softness to you and that it is a desire and a passion. That's all part of it. So you're saying Tantra, that's part of, of well being that's part of life. And that's the focus.

Unknown: 26:16

Exactly right. And then we I mean, in, we can talk about, I mean, there are advanced rituals and practices and all sorts of all sorts of voodoo Juju that we can, that we can talk about a little bit, and a lot of it is, is secret. That said, working with vital winds and energies in the body and in the mind is and working with energetic alchemise, right, to transform and transmute energetic states in the body and in the mind and to not be contained in this mundane reality is all part of the teaching. They probably teach

Amy: 27:03

differently again, based on what type of what's the name, Miguel take the doshas. Yeah, totally. You are so yeah, right. Interesting. So

Unknown: 27:16

we're gonna have a friend of mine, a dear colleague and a friend, we're gonna actually teach a course on contra for women suit that's like, involves many of the so called Secret practices, etc. That's on like, the chakra system. You guys know the chakra system, right? Yeah, blah, blah, blah. It's on the chakra system and sex. It's on like Jade egg rituals. From a Taoist perspective. It's on like, bliss drop practices in the energetic body where you're moving inner winds and channels to experience like deep, overwhelming bliss in the present moment when you're not having sex. Right. And then you're like driving through the pickup line trying to pick up your kid and you're like, Oh, my God, I'm having an orgasm right now. School. Never happened. Never happens. It doesn't happen, right?

Amy: 28:05

Oh my god. That's hilarious. That's great. I want to go back to what you were saying just before you were saying about how you, you know, you prescribe like three things, let's say or give someone three things to do based on their what they're struggling with or whatever. Are those two things like? Is it food related? Is it like, like a

Unknown: 28:26

are slowly person to person? It totally depends, like, person to person. And we haven't talked about Vedic Astrology. I'll talk about it a little bit. Yeah, I want to hear about. Yeah, I want to talk about it in just a second. But it depends, like, what level needs the remedy. Like if if it's something that's actually in your mind, but the problem is originating from I can give you and this happens with weight loss all the time. I have to just be straight with you guys. I'm pretty straight with you guys. I've already talked about orgasms in the pickup line. So we're like, really good. That is, right. It's like in your mind now. I'm sorry. We're just we've gone. They're really great friends. So what the heck was I talking about?

Amy: 29:11

You were talking? Yeah,

Unknown: 29:13

weight loss, weight loss. It's my least favorite thing. In my practice, I pretty much don't do it anymore. If somebody comes and says, I want to lose weight, I'm like, why is that because nine times out of 10 I can put them on any diet in the world. They won't lose weight, because it is something in their mind and it's a deep seated fear. And it's like all of this pent up emotion and like all of this stuff, that unless they address that what is keeping it in place, then the diet doesn't work right. So it depends like What remedies we need depends upon like, where where you are and which level of the self we are addressing. Is it just the physical body? Is it the mind? Is it the energetic body like we're just how Talking about the chakras, maybe your heart chakra needs to be really opened. Now we can do that through some rose essential oil, or we can do it with like specific sexual positions, if that's where you want to go, right? Or you're open to, or you know that we, there's all these different remedies depending upon that person and what they need. And it's my job to like, see that person? Yeah, to see that person and then then understand that remedy, which will bring them to a layer of awakening to themselves, right

Katie: 30:34

to where it all starts to work, and then start things start falling into place, you would appreciate this. And I wonder if you've heard of it, if it's related at all, but I just recently signed up for a 30 day course, a hip opener course, because I have had a lot of hip pain lately. And I was reading that you hold trauma in your hips. And yeah, I thought I'm gonna give this a try. So right, so yeah, just yeah, I'm gonna start it tomorrow. But is that is that? Yeah, totally

Unknown: 31:03

second, second chakra Sacral Chakra is is the water element. And it absolutely relates to emotions and emotional flow, and how we contain and hold emotion and how we process emotion. And so hip openers are great.

Katie: 31:20

Very cool.

Amy: 31:20

I have a question. Because this might be something that's on a lot of people's mind, just like over the last few years, there's been so much anxiety, you know, all over the place. And so and when you were saying before, if something's more in the mind, it's not physical, but it's like anxiety or things like that. How can I mean, I know, this is so broad, and it depends on person, what type they are. But is there something someone could do in their daily life to like, ease anxiety? I'm just trying to think of something that a lot of people Yeah,

Unknown: 31:52

absolutely. You know, there's so many different things. But the most, the easiest remedy for that is to walk slower. Like when you are going to your car, you know, we get into that like, Okay, I'm going out of the grocery store, and I'm getting into the car, and I'm just filling in, I'm checking my phone, and I'm in like the radios on and like all of this, just walk slowly, between point A and point B. And that's it. Like even like, feel like you're a gorilla. Like what? Because get back into your body. Because anxiety is when we are in the future or the past. And if we can come back right now. Like into any mindful state, then it dissipates. Right. So that's one like totally simple remedy. Just walk.

Amy: 32:50

That's great. That's good for kids. When kids get all crazy about something, yeah, but for

Unknown: 32:55

kids, like, I'll do this with my kid, I'll be like, okay, Name five things that are present right now. They'll be like, Hey, I know. They'll be like, No Name five things and they'll be like, I see my shoe. They see the picture on the wall. And by the time they've done five, they're done. Right because they're back they've like they've like Soul retrieved with some crystals and like recite

Amy: 33:17

Yeah, yeah. Right now.

Katie: 33:22

All right. I was great. I want to hear about it was the Vedic Astrology. Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, we can't we can't miss that. So help us better understand.

Unknown: 33:35

Okay, so it's another one of these huge sciences that has its origins in ancient India. And I use Vedic Astrology as an Ayurvedic practitioner. Most many Ayurvedic practitioners do not practice Jyotish, which is another name for Vedic Astrology. It's the science of light. So it's how light manifests in the universe through you. And so, Vedic Astrology is accurate to what is actually happening in the sky right now. Whereas Western Astrology is accurate to what was happening in the sky 2000 years ago. Oops. I Western astrology really triggers me. So I'm just gonna put it aside right now. Because it's not accurate. That's why it's like

Amy: 34:20

horoscopes and like that kind of stuff.

Unknown: 34:22

And it's not accurate. Like, like, oh, the moon is in cancer. If you look up Astro logic astronomically at the sky. The moon is not in cancer. Right now. It's actually we just had a New Moon in Gemini, right? It's just not right. So that's a problem for me. Yeah. Anyhow, people love it. So I'll let them do their thing. I'll do my thing. Okay. So it's accurate to what is actually happening in the sky and how we, it shows us the blueprint of the karma, that that soul has come into this lifetime to work on So really big stuff, really big stuff like Have I come into this lifetime? To learn how to be better at relationship? Have I come into this lifetime to learn about addiction? Like that's pretty heavy karma, right? Have I come into this lifetime to learn about cancer? That's some pretty heavy karma, right? Or have I come into this lifetime to learn about money? Like, think of these things as good or bad, they aren't good or bad. It's like, What has my soul chosen, or be been propelled in this lifetime to learn to learn about? Wow. And so when we look at that, then that gives me a picture. That's where I usually start when I'm working with a one on one client, because, you know, why is one child born perfect, and another child is born with a deformed arm, right? That has no reason? There's no reason except for if we look at these bigger karmic pictures, so why have you manifested in this particular way, this particular slice of light coming into the universe, right? And those karmic lessons that we're learning, it's like, we go to a climbing gym, and like the first time we climb the wall, we're like, Oh, my God, that's so hard. All of my muscles are like jello, and I'm exhausted. But then we go back again, and we climb it again. And it feels better. But we're still learning about this new territory. And similarly, this is what we do over and over and over and over in our lifetimes, right? We know this, we like this guy who's an asshole. We dated this guy who is not very nice. And and then we're like, okay, thank you. I didn't know what kind of podcasts are on. There. But so we did this guy, and he's unavailable, right? unavailable, man like that karma, right? And then we're like, I'm not going to do that. So then we did another guy, guess who do we date? Another unavailable guy, right? Because we, it's like these things that we're getting a PhD on in this lifetime. It's not that, like, we just get better and better and better and better at this thing. But when we look at the chart, we can provide, we can provide the wisdom, it's so helpful to be seen in this way to be like, Oh, that's who you are. I see what you are working on.

Katie: 37:14

Like, it helps you understand the why. Yes, there's how it gives you the why.

Amy: 37:19

So how do you? How do you do it? Like, what is it? Like? How does one?

Unknown: 37:24

Yeah, yeah, so we need the birth date, time and place. And then there are charts within charts within charts. And like, I use a software that that pulls up the chart so that you can see all of these. I mean, it's a system of signs and symbols, and then it's it's our job to interpret those. So you do

Katie: 37:47

their meetings. Yeah.

Amy: 37:49

And then that then informs that person, kind of what their

Unknown: 37:54

Yeah, so if I'm, if I'm doing just like an IRB, I don't mean just but if I'm doing a health console, I'll look at it and just be like, Okay, this is the picture. And this is this will tell me a great information. And then I leave that and then we're going into like, what are you eating every day? And when do you go to sleep? And how much alcohol are you drinking? And like, what are these other factors, but then if I'm just doing a chart reading, we'll spend an hour and a half or two hours just looking at like, what are the what are you working on in this lifetime?

Amy: 38:23

And then what is suitable sorry, then what are people I'm just trying to, like? For lack of a better word, like dumb it down for myself, like, what did people like you read there? You do a reading for them, like based on their birthday or all that, then like, they learn kind of what they're here for. Then what do they do with that doomsaying?

Unknown: 38:48

Yeah, yeah, no, I do. We do have remedies for when there are difficulties in the chart. And then there's also the fact that like, there's the time that you were born, and that's like your blueprint, and then there's stuff that's happening right now. Right that overlays that the end so we can see when times are going to be difficult for you. And that's really helpful to know, like, wow, that's gonna be a really hard time for me, right? I'm going by I'm gonna lose my job and my boyfriend is gonna break up with me, whatever it is, right? That's gonna be a hard time and just knowing that is like, okay, yeah, it's not the end of the world. This is what is happening right now. And it's also a framework for understanding reality, understanding reality, that is incredibly potent.

Katie: 39:40

It also seems like it would be you know, so many people say they're searching for their why and like, why are they here? What is their what are they supposed to be doing on this planet? And if this is giving your karma then I'm kind of telling you that exactly what that insight. Yes. And then you can do something with it.

Unknown: 40:00

That's exactly right. It's like that knowledge and then you

Katie: 40:03

just say I'm gonna get a reading. It sounds very cool.

Amy: 40:06

It doesn't cool.

Katie: 40:07

Yeah. Amazing. It's, it's all very like, it's, I mean, it's much more vast. Like we talked about it

Amy: 40:16

all. Yeah, I know. I was gonna say that too. Yeah. It would be so interesting to just have like deep dives on each one of these things. Because we just start like scratching the surface. It sounds like there's just so much underneath to, to learn about. So. Yeah, we'll have to like, have you back to talk.

Unknown: 40:36

Come back. I like you guys.

Amy: 40:37

Maybe we do a section on Tantra. And we do a section on,

Unknown: 40:42

like on the pickup line at school.

Amy: 40:45

Yeah, exactly. Like there's just so much to get into. And I feel like we could do a whole session on Vedic Astrology. Yeah. Which is super interesting. Yeah. Okay, awesome. Well, we're gonna want to

Katie: 40:59

hear but yeah, go ahead. So you do some you do retreats as well. Right. Justine, tell us about your summer. Last

Unknown: 41:08

summer, I do a summertime retreat, and I do a winter time retreat. Summertime bliss retreats coming up here in July. It's in California, near Nevada City, which is like this super, spiritual, yummy place. And we do a five day retreat. And we dive deep into all of these things. And into practice. And it's I don't know, if you have you ever been on a retreat, like a spiritual or yoga retreat before?

Amy: 41:38

I know. I have, but not like, not that, like more.

Unknown: 41:45

So it's so relaxing, because you don't even have to think about what you're going to eat. You know, like, even if you're on vacation, you have to be like, Okay, that's your restaurant, whatever. It's like, that's one of the most relaxing things about retreat is like your food is like this amazing organic food and it appears before you. And so it just like takes away all of this pressure. And we just we do yoga and alchemical practices and fire rituals and water healings and Slike. Really? Amazing. Yeah, super fun. Yeah. So my summertime retreat is there in Nevada City, I think I have one space left. And then in the wintertime, generally I do like a kind of invite only retreat, which means like, if you're if you if you contact me, and you're cool, you can come by summertime.

Amy: 42:37

just from looking at someone where they fit

Unknown: 42:41

out and then I read their mind and use my psychic skills. So wintertime retreat is going to be a women's Tantra retreat this winter. I'm super working on the details of it. Very cool.

Katie: 42:54

My husband would buy me a ticket tomorrow.

Unknown: 42:57

All right, let's do it. I'm sending you I want you to comment, it's gonna be so much fun. Very cool.

Amy: 43:05

Love it. Okay,

Unknown: 43:06

I know I was like this upcoming Tantra course that I that I'm going to do in the fall. It's a six week course for women about tantric sex and sexuality. We'll touch on some of the Neo Tantra stocks, but it's very much from this kind of rooted position and place. I was talking to my friend who does marketing and I was like, Can I just mark it towards men? And like get them to buy it for their wives? Like he was like, Yeah, you can probably do that. He was like, you might pick up a few.

Katie: 43:34

Yeah, sounds very Yeah, it sounds like the way to go. Alright. So where can our listeners find you if they want to reach out and work with you and your retreats?

Unknown: 43:46

I'm just in limos.com is my website and I'm on Instagram, Justine Lemos, Ph. D. And you can find me there you can reach out you can send me a DM I'm super responsive. They're like, I also really enjoy like that. I also have a UI I also run a mighty network which is like free social media the the base level is free. And I mean, they're like everyday that's the bliss the dash bliss.mn.to You guys I think, Oh yeah, I'm on Gaia TV. I've 12 shows on Gaia and actually a big course coming out through Sofia yoga International. But the best way is like on Instagram or on my website, send me a message. I love personal contact with my students and clients and like people like if you message me you're gonna really get me like not another person.

Katie: 44:43

Nice. Yeah, well, this was a lot of fun. This is something we should get. Yeah, we should get into our rap session because I'm really curious to hear some of your answers. is what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Unknown: 45:00

So it's what we call a younga, which is a complete body oil creation that I do almost daily.

Katie: 45:08

What does that entails more? Yeah,

Unknown: 45:10

so you get warm oil, it has to be warm and you warm it up. And it can be like verbalized oil or oil for specific reasons. Or for specific purposes and you oil your entire body, you can do your hair. You don't have to and then usually you're taking a warm shower afterwards and like rubbing the oil into your body. It's this wonderful, amazing self care ritual.

Amy: 45:33

Sounds lovely.

Katie: 45:34

Are you doing this at like a certain time of day? Is this a morning ritual in

Unknown: 45:38

the morning? Or night? I usually do it at night. Yeah,

Amy: 45:42

yeah, I was like a wind down. That sounds so relaxing.

Unknown: 45:45

Yeah. Jazz gets oil everywhere. I'm fine with it. Yeah.

Amy: 45:49

Yeah. Love that. Okay, so the next one we call our five minute flow. So you just got out of the shower, you dry it off. Uber or your friend whatever alerted you. They're five minutes away. They're picking you up. What is your quick beauty routine? Like what are your go to Holy girls had to get ready and get out the door on time? I mean, ideally, it wouldn't be five minutes because we want to slow down but if you have Right, right, totally,

Unknown: 46:13

but like I like I if I've oily ated like I'm ready. Like I'm ready to go. I'm like no frills, like, Yeah, I mean, make sure my architecture shaved spray on some deodorant. Like, if it's a fancy, I might have some like, mascara on. Yeah,

Amy: 46:34

but other than that oily ated and good to go.

Unknown: 46:38

That's right. I'm ready to walk out the door. Love it. Yep.

Katie: 46:42

Amazing. All right. And the last one is, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Unknown: 46:50

Well, I think we've talked about most of it, like, you know, I practice physical yoga daily. I practice meditation daily, I do all of these Ayurvedic rituals and internal and external alchemy. So that's good, fun. Love it.

Katie: 47:10

Justin, I feel like you probably have some really cool mantras. We'd like to close our show with a mantra. Do you have any that come to mind? And I know that's I know that term. We use that term very loosely here. Obviously, we're not using it as Sanskrit mantras, not necessarily speaking to that. But more just like something we like to end, on a note, a reminder, an affirmation, something along those lines. So if you don't have anything, no pressure, but I just thought I'd ask right.

Unknown: 47:40

And of course, like to me, I'm like, oh, all of the Sanskrit mantras come directly out. I'm like, oh, yeah, Mantra. We can.

Katie: 47:49

Yeah, please. I would love a Sanskrit mantra. I just didn't want to put the pressure on. Oh, there is

Unknown: 47:55

no pressure. So first, I'm gonna chant a Gayatri mantra that invites in seven forms of light, like into us. So it's like an invocation of luminosity. Where we're like pouring sunlight down through us and then like, emanating sun out through our pores, like so. This is the globe on track. This is the like, track Okay, yeah,

Amy: 48:23

ready

Unknown: 48:29

for move us VA server tour. Training knee bar go live. Yes. Yeah, daddy nahi the you're not proud to die.

Amy: 48:54

Can you know that was your voice is gorgeous. It's like went through me.

Katie: 49:02

It's very grounding and relaxing. That was beautiful. Thank you so

Amy: 49:07

much. That was so special.

Katie: 49:10

That we appreciate so grateful for your time.

Unknown: 49:13

I had super fun hanging out with you guys. You too.

Amy: 49:16

Thanks so much. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 63 - Greens, Water, Move, Repeat With Ahmi Health Founder, Rachel Johnson (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 63 - Greens, Water, Move, Repeat With Ahmi Health Founder, Rachel Johnson.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And we're so excited to be here with Rachel Johnson, who's the founder of Ahmi health. She is a corporate lawyer by day and an entrepreneur by night. So I can definitely relate to that. And we are super excited to hear about her growing business and hear about the community of women that are figuring out the healthy life together. So welcome to the show, Rachel.

Rachel: 0:51

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Actually, on my morning walk this morning. I was listening to Lisa, the founder of Kroma wellness episode you guys just did because a lot of our members have been doing her five day cleanse and like trying all her products. So it's like so curious.

Amy: 1:07

Oh, that's awesome. But what is their feedback? Ben, we love it.

Rachel: 1:10

You love it. They I think, you know some of them have done at prolong, which is like, Oh, you're one which is really rough. I can just enter my friend. I've done it bombers with me. And she's like, I'm so frickin pissed. I drink her all day. I've lost like less than one pound. But she was yeah, it's

Amy: 1:29

horrible. I've done it a few times. Yeah. From us, like, a million times better and healthier. Yes.

Rachel: 1:35

And the people that are doing Kroma just like they're like we're eating like they have like almond butter or whatever that cookie butter is. And so I think it's really great. I really want to do it. I am trying to have a third kid so I'm like I shouldn't really do a write always. I love experimenting with that stuff. You know, I was a girl like 10 years ago that was doing a juice cleanse like just with my friends because I feel like I was the one person that would actually commit with them. Yeah, we're doing it like five days.

Amy: 2:03

That's awesome. Well, we're so happy to get all into it. But before we get into it, let's do our nirvana of the week and kind of take a step back and talk about what brought us joy this week or today or anything little we're big at why don't you start so funny.

Katie: 2:17

Thank you Amy. It's so funny that I'm so my, my my nirvana of the week was going to be that my inlaws are here. We're here but as Amy knows, Amy's parents, my parents, they just tested positive for COVID last night so are on their way home.

Amy: 2:36

They're okay though. Yes,

Katie: 2:37

they are. Their bodies are handling it very, very well that so they're doing I think they're going to be just fine. But we did have like some great little Nirvana moments with them this week with the kids and everything and just relaxing having dinners together. It's nice. I was loved having them here. So it's a shame it got cut short, but that was my What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:57

It's so cute. Yeah, my my dad was telling me that they went to see the Michael Jackson show in on Broadway in New York City like a couple of nights ago and Katie's daughter Maddie went and it sounded like she was in heaven thought it was amazing. And I heard the I heard the guy Wait, or when they were young and she Yeah, she I

Katie: 3:15

mean, she goes on never be the same after.

Amy: 3:20

Yeah, my dad said she waves back and I was like, okay, she's gonna be that the rest of her life. That was actually one of my Nirvana's I was gonna say because that was like the cutest thing because I can remember being that little and something like that happens even now you're like, Oh my God. That is really funny that you said that. Totally.

Rachel: 3:35

I remember catching Justin Timberlake, Timberlake. glowstick at a Encino remember it and I saved the glow stick was like on my shelf for so long.

Amy: 3:45

So funny. Yeah, that's a sweet. So I would say I've used versions of this before, but I've been like, I feel like in a little bit of a funk lately with like, I mean, I'm always working out. But just like in you know, you get into the routine. And so this week, I've been just doing a lot more walking outside because it's been beautiful out. So it is just amazing how much it changes your mood. Because, you know, sometimes you're like, you get up and you're like, you don't feel like getting your bed you get like a little lazy, especially today. It's like, you know, before a long holiday weekend, and I was just like, and then I forced myself to get out of bed. I took a half an hour walk with my dog and like, I felt so much better coming in and I was just like, um, it's just, it's just amazing how much like fresh air and the sun in your eyes and like a good walk and sweat can do for you and change your perspective. And I wasn't even like running. I ran a little bit but mostly just walking and I just felt so good afterwards. But um, so that was my Nirvana, love. Okay, what about you, Rachel?

Rachel: 4:40

Um, so my nirvana is probably the opposite of health and wellness. But I was in the Bahamas this past weekend. And I think minder, Ivana was just being at this like really grungy dive bar with a group of two other couples. We went to the Bahamas with and we were like taking shots at tequila and see like free fall and winter. So fun, grungy all these like, posters were in there and I was just like this like reminds you of like the good old days and I really I mean it's terrible but like I feel like alive and I remember like this is heaven. This is like, you know that happiness. I love that feeling yeah fun and actually went with two couples that are dating there. All four of them were recently divorced. And it's something that you know, I usually go with like married couples or others but these people were down to like YOLO have so much fun. Second Leisha life and it was like so fun and really fun for me and my husband did just like get that renewed energy from that. That's so

Katie: 5:39

great. I love that. Yeah, that's Nirvana's can be wild and crazy and fun. And that's a great things for you to like, it's so important, right? The balance I think tonight I'm gonna probably be having a couple spicy margaritas. And that will be when nirvana for tomorrow.

Amy: 5:54

Exactly. Alright, well, let's get into it. So tell us all about AMI health and how to get started and kind of like what the name represents.

Rachel: 6:05

Yeah, so AMI is a play on the French word for friend. Because that's really how it started. I had had my second baby, I always kind of let it go. When I'm pregnant. I like order bloomin onion from Outback Pizza Hut. Like I live it up. And I've never been into like health and wellness. I've always like been interested in what other people are doing. And like doing juice cleanses here and there. But nothing like I've never looked at nutrition labels or ever really feel like I could live a healthy life. And after my second baby, I had about 60 to 70 pounds to lose. And I was like shoot like I need to do something and I need to like join something. And there really wasn't a company out there that I felt like spoke my language when it came to getting healthy. There was a new Weight Watchers which are great. But I just wanted something like fresh, elevated sharing all the healthy products. And I realized like what motivated me was seeing other busy women doing it like seeing somebody that's similar to me, maybe she's like the head of Burger King or something going for a run at 6am. I'm like shit if she can do it. I know she's getting on a flight somewhere. I can do it too. So I got a group of six of my girlfriends together. And you know, we'd all get together. We're like, Oh, I gotta get healthy. And like none. Nobody ever done anything. And I was like, Guys, we're committing for three months, we're going to like eat really simple recipes, share them with each other, and just work out three days a week, because like three days a week, you can do even when you're having a shit show week and like, let's start there. And we did it really stuck to it. Like most times you would be like alright guys, I'm like going on vacation. Good luck with your like little healthy thing. Let people do that with you. I know you're sticking to it. Because you can still like, do three days a week on vacation like, yes, you're right, eating the healthiest, but you can still do something. So they we really stuck with and we all saw huge changes. Like I lost 25 pounds. My single friends were happy again, they were like back on the dating apps. Like we were just all different. And so great work, you know, and everybody started asking us like, What the heck are you guys doing? Because naturally when you start looking and feeling good people want to ask you and it's like, what the hell and they want you to say it's $1,000 Shake that they can do to. And it's just like, we didn't have a magic to it. And so people were like, well, I want to do it too. Or like I have a group of girls like we want to do it. And I was like there's nothing to do you like just get together and do it. And I finally then there were like strangers coming to me. And they were like, I don't have a group of friends to do it with but I really want to do it. And so I started setting up these groups on WhatsApp, some were like already groups of friends, but some were just complete strangers, and I like matched together. And they ended up having 16 different groups, like almost 100 Women on WhatsApp doing this together. And it was like there's definitely something here. Like I feel like the people want this they want something to start and they don't necessarily want it to end like there's a reason why Weight Watchers has lifetime members. Like you need that constant reminder to be healthy. And if you could do it in a way where like sharing healthy products like Chroma and like all the cool you know collagen stuff that's out and what do you like to use? Like that's what we all like to know anyway. And like it's kind of different than just having like a newsletter or content where you're seeing it and not really seeing people use this or talk about it in their everyday life. So about a year ago, I started that so that was like three years ago the WhatsApp group I was like holy shit like going to a coffee shop. I have a full time job being a corporate lawyer and managing partner of a law firm. And I was going to a coffee shop on Sunday setting up these WhatsApp groups. I two little kids my husband's like you are freaking insane. Yeah, like, what are you doing? I just loved it. And I was like, I feel, I was like, glad I feel like there's something here. And he's like, okay, like, I trust you, because you always like, somehow figure it out. And so about a year ago, we I finally saw, like, there was a need, and there was a market fit for what we were doing. And so I transferred to a Slack community. And now anybody can join anytime. But we do have like three big launches throughout the year, where a lot of new members joined together. So it's a community of, you know, mostly busy women, whether working or not working, just trying to figure out how to, like consistently live that healthy life together. And we do little like challenges throughout the time, we have a registered dietician that like helped us create AMI, and now we're partnering with other registered dieticians. But we have you know, a lot of content like a one week reset menu that you know, probably is like a $90 grocery store run that can really reset you for the week, and make a lot of really cool content to keep you motivated. So when you log on, you get like a member dashboard, you get access to our community. And we have a lot of like exclusive interviews to have, like people we want to talk to you and know things about and our members who have had really big changes.

Katie: 11:20

That's amazing. It's so smart, because it's all about the accountability and motivating each other and the experience and sharing it with someone and just as you were talking about, it reminded me so much of like, our journey together, Amy and I, you know, it sounds very similar to what we do with each other, and why we want to share it with people and everything. And I love that you make it very accessible. And that's part of it, all of it. Right? It's like it's accessible. It's for anyone that wants to get started on their wellness journey. They don't have to be a marathon runner. They don't have you know, it's it's easy, right?

Rachel: 11:53

Yes, yeah, we like we're very big, like, we have total newbies, but we also have like, health and wellness freaks that like just want to be out of this because they like to like, be in the know. And they and honestly everybody needs motivation. Whether you're like, I've been doing this for years. Yeah, I'm up. So and it's really nice, because some of the newbies are like, See, I need people like this, my friends are not motivated. I need people more healthy than me showing me what the hell to do. And like it's true, you kind of need in your life, people that like are a little more motivated than you. So like you told us back, like if everybody it's so true, whatever you're gonna be like, alright, well, let's just not go on a walk today on vacation. Right?

Amy: 12:35

Right now i That's so true. Because I know like years ago, you know, before Katie and I started the same thing. Like, she would motivate me because she's like, Oh, I just made this amazing salad. And I like literally I still have it like in my notes, you know, where then I'll be like, Oh, I found this cool. Whatever. Katie got me like really eyes open to a lot of healthy eating stuff. And I have another friend who lives in LA and Janine, I don't know if you're listening Janine, but she's super healthy and always has been. And I feel like she's always telling me what's new, and what good workouts to do. And just like different things. So I think it is really motivating to have people that are around you that can give you all the tips and trips and your tricks. You're right, that is true. And you're on vacation, because you can be on vacation and not have to be so gluttonous, you can have your drinks, but you can also get up early and go on a hike or, you know, make your vacation active as well. Because then you come back and you feel horrible for like, totally not paying attention. So it's like, it's all about that balance. And I also love how it's very real. Like, I know you're speaking to that just like it's like a group with your friends, which is so nice, because you just it's a little bit more casual and loose. It's not so regimented, like some of these programs can be

Rachel: 13:40

yes. And I think it's good because you are seeing like other real women, like I said, I think a lot of us are seeing on social and Instagram, like people whose 24/7 job is health and wellness. And it feels very intimidating sometimes. And for me, I just would always like write it off. I'm like that shit is impossible for me. Like I could never make a collagen latte in the morning. Like that's not my life and now I forget to do it. Or you get to college and you know, and I think you just have to like, be like wait, no, I can freakin do this I can work out you know every day and move my body I just have to figure out what works for me. And I think that's the thing like that intimidation factor of you know, I can't do it or if I do it I have to do some like 30 Day sprint and make it be everything that you know our goal is like to stick with this life forever. Our motto is greens water move, repeat. And that is what I stuck to like especially in the beginning. I'm like did I have one cup of greens today whether it's in like a side child with dinner in a smoothie? Did I drink 90 ounces of water because like before I was living dehydrated I honestly don't even know how I'm alive or like got through law school being so dehydrated And then move, let's just move your body like you said, even a morning walk on a vacation with an iced latte filled with almond milk or sugar, who cares? Like enjoy your walk, but at least go on a walk on vacation in the morning and move your body. And I think focusing on like, the simplicity of that kind of makes it feel easy, rather than the counting, and then this and then that. And obviously people have to do what works for them. And I think food tracking counting is like so important for some of our members. But I think they're like overarching, they're still having that like greens water move, repeat in the back of there.

Katie: 15:37

Yeah, I love it. It's simply like that. And then you have tell us what your nutritionist what role she plays. So or he or she I'm sorry, what?

Rachel: 15:46

So we actually, our plan is to partner with a lot of nutritionist. So we do feel like nutrition is that one thing when I talk to people? It is like the personalized aspect of it like yes, we can all be in this group together. But I do think having one on one personalized nutrition is so important. Like everybody's different, how often are you going to the bathroom, maybe you're not having a fiber. So we are now starting to partner with registered dieticians, who you know, our community has like discounts and perks with it, offer that one on one personalized nutrition to our members. And I'm working with one now who is amazing. And I have never worked with a registered dietician. Even in my three years of having on me, I always was like, my mentality, which I feel like it's a lot of people was like, I know what, like eating healthy is like I just need like work. I make excuses. And I just can't stick with it. And after even just two sessions with this registered dietician, I'm just like, I'm like, I needed to know that education behind it. What was missing, you know, a lot of us are under eating and like we're so ravenous and open all the pantries at 6pm. Because we skipped like that crucial 3pm snack that can't just be like the bar, it has to be like the bar an apple and like you really have to be scientific about filling yourself up. So it's been I'm like really excited for that next chapter of on me of really bringing like one on one personalized nutrition. And then we can all share with each other. I'm like, Oh, my dietician told me to get these like bestie crackers on Amazon. And I never heard of those. And I'm like, Oh, I actually just ordered them this morning. Yeah, but

Amy: 17:28

have you heard, we've interviewed Jen Silverman on our show twice. Jen Silverman nutrition. She's amazing. And she's given us a lot of like, good hacks and snacks and recipes. So you should listen to her. But we should also connect you with her because she'd be really valuable for your group. She has great, great, great recipes and recommendations. But yeah, it's so important to and I agree, it's like it's all about your your body and like how your body reacts to things versus just like this general plan. And I love that. You have this group and you're all sharing it. So it's not like this, like, oh, well, this is I'm not going to tell you like oh no, get this snack or get this to this

Rachel: 18:02

cool. It's like some people join. It's like, I have five pounds to lose. And like somebody else is joining. I'm like, I've 45 pounds, or somebody's joining. And they're just like, I'm freaking depressed. And my therapist told me that I need to get healthy. And so I found on me, and I feel like it is true. And you guys I know I'm probably like preaching to the choir. But like once I really started getting healthy, I feel like work got better. Like I wasn't so agitated on like, having all this stuff to do, because I had the energy of feeling good. And I feel like for me that was like, so my day is like most people I'm at my computer from like 9am to 6pm. So I need like the same energy is probably like 80% of America that are in, you know, jobs where email is your life. Yeah.

Amy: 18:54

It's so true. It's so true. And I do. You were saying this before, but just wanted to comment on it. I love that you're making this so accessible, like he was mentioning too, because that's where we're all about to like taking the intimidation out of well being because you're right, you see these people on Instagram and you're like, oh my god, that's so unattainable. It just doesn't feel relatable. And it's demotivating in a way. So we have that same ethos around this is like the real 101 And like, these are little things that you can incorporate and not to make it intimidate anybody can. It can totally be that way. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Rachel: 19:30

It's hard, right? Like, I feel like everybody's like with Jennifer Lopez has like, you know, multi million dollars and these people aren't millions of dollars, but like she's frickin working. It's hard. Like she's being very regimented.

Katie: 19:44

Ya know, it's available to everybody. It just depends on like, what level you want, what your what's accessible. Like, what it's easy for you. What are some of the challenges that you you said you have challenges within the club, the health club, what are some of the challenges that you guys do? I

Rachel: 20:01

think the Oh, like different groups, just so we now starting to partner with like trainers. So we just had a trainer do a four week strength training challenge because I could I also like hear the chatter of the community like, that's where I go to find out what people want. And people kept talking about weights and using heavier weights can be like a really good bang for your buck, because you could do 20 minutes of like, heavier weights, and really feel a difference if you're consistent. So we found a trainer that did a four week strength training program in June, for a group of our members. You know, it's like, not everybody choice chooses to do everyone. But we had about 20 of our members do it. And it just finished, it's finishing on Sunday. But like, if it wasn't for the group, I honestly, probably I would have signed up for that thing. But I would have like, probably trickled out after two.

Amy: 20:56

Do they like, and everyone keeps each other accountable?

Rachel: 20:59

Yeah, yes. And me like, I think this is like the most on a scale I've weighed. But even being in the Bahamas on a bathing suit, like, I was told I had abs I was just, and that was from the weights. Like I did not look like that before. And so I think like, all these little experiments are so good to be like shit, I really need to be incorporating heavier weights, if I want to feel tone,

Katie: 21:22

and also just like playing around with what works for your body. And this is, it sounds like a forum where your people are gonna be introduced to different things, different methods, they can figure out what feels good for them and what works for them as well. But yeah, it's so true. You see, like all over social media lift, heavy lift, heavy, lift heavy. Right?

Rachel: 21:39

Right. And you're like, Yeah, it's like, can we actually like, do it because they have these five pound weights. But are they talking about like eight or 10 pound weights? Right?

Amy: 21:47

It's so true. And I used to have a trainer Katie, and I do yeah. And she was amazing. And I did so much weightlifting. But like, I didn't really love the way it looks. I felt like it made me thicker, but not necessarily like, like, like long and lean.

Katie: 22:02

Like it didn't work for you. It doesn't work for me either.

Amy: 22:05

It didn't really. And I liked it because I felt good. But then I was like, to your point. Well, I have to come into the community. So I can see like, what can I do with like lower weights, but more reps? So maybe like a little bit? Yeah,

Rachel: 22:15

so this group of members are doing Melissa would help summer school. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We do that now. I think yesterday with a new she's switching up her monthly challenges, which again, I've never been able to stick to her freaking calendar. I'm like, I want those long, lean lines. I know a lot of work. But we all are doing her summer sculpt calendar for for

Amy: 22:40

her I didn't know that released. I look at that.

Rachel: 22:43

She switched it up a little. And we each put in like our small group on the Slack channel. What our personal goals are for from for me, I'm not going to do something every day. But I could commit to her for like five days a week and I'll mix in like a bunch of walks and like five days a week of really being consistent with her workouts. I feel like I'm gonna feel like I for sure

Amy: 23:03

it makes a difference. Like I mean, what I can do now compared to what I could do when I first started doing her workouts is unbelievable. Like I never thought I could do like the challenging ones. And now I'm like doing that I'm like, oh and like if you're consistent with most of what health like it really does. That's like the one thing that has made like I feel like the biggest difference I'm gonna check out the strength training I know she was doing

Rachel: 23:23

about the summer sculpt and ABS I think some are booty and abs.

Katie: 23:29

And then so are you introducing essentially this is in the club and so there's there's members that are in the club that maybe have never heard of MW health and now they have and you're exposing them and it's like this great new world, right? That's also very cool. Amy,

Rachel: 23:45

Amy. Yeah, somebody was like I thought she was like your local friend in Boca and I looked her up and she's like a male. She's not my friend. I just thought we talked to her like,

Amy: 23:57

I know everyone thinks everyone's like friends with her because she's so like, sweet. You feel like you know we're that resistant

Rachel: 24:02

to her because right she is like, she looks like a supermodel and she's big are coming in and trying her workouts and like Okay, those are always frickin talking about her. I'll try it for 999 a month and do this thing with rib eyes and hope convert, because I feel like she is so zen and peaceful that even my mom who's in her 70s and part of our me we do have like very a lot of age, right age.

Amy: 24:25

Yeah. Get our moms involved in that. That's so good. Like moms

Rachel: 24:29

need like my mom needs something like she thinks she's healthy but she then eats so much. And so much wine and like this has really helped her and having she's like one of our members that actually like does every menu to a tee dramatic Rachel you forgot the blackberries on page number two. You're the only one like paying as close attention. But she loves Melissa would help. She's like she does like a 4550 minute one. Oh my god. It just really Help. So

Amy: 25:00

I'm like 20 minutes

Rachel: 25:02

shortest one today. That's, that's easy.

Katie: 25:06

Let's talk about your members then what? What's the like age range? And what do you find is your demographic.

Rachel: 25:12

So I think so we are pretty much like I would say we're 30s, mid 30s To like, however, won't be a 50s 60s 70s doing it. And I think the one common denominator is like most people are really busy, whether that's being home with the kids and just not being able to get like a moment for themselves, or like wanting that community of people that are living a healthy life so that they can feel motivation, or it's really a lot of busy professionals, we have a lot. My law firm is in the startup like venture space. And so I just through my network have connections with a lot of people in this space. So it's a lot of like women working on startups that are super busy. And you know, I think everybody that's in it kind of likes to know the new healthy things like I love the idea of brand partnerships. We just did a big partnership to third love the bra company. Yeah, all of our members, their new like active wear slacks kit, so I'm hoping to do more partnerships like that, which basically gets our members free stuff from, like, all our favorite brands, and like helps these brands amplify themselves in a way that it's not just going to influencers but going to like

Amy: 26:26

real, right. It's like a real community of women. Yeah.

Rachel: 26:30

Social, you know, they just they don't have the hundreds of 1000s of followers but yeah, but we'll still get the word out

Katie: 26:37

and love it after picturing a clever with maybe a Nirvana sisters army retreat somewhere. I think that's

Rachel: 26:45

literally that Katie totally do that. Because while the Mesa on your guys's podcast I wrote down that reset plays Yeah. She says it's dying. And I'm like, wait, I feel like I need well, I need to figure out like how frickin expensive is it is

Amy: 27:00

it's expensive. And I was like, I was like, maybe we can get, maybe we can bring a whole group. If they're listening and breathe flat. We could bring a whole group of people and maybe they

Rachel: 27:11

are on social that everybody needs to go here with their friends or their husband to get a reset. Let's work on and we

Amy: 27:17

could invite some of our guests that are kind of reoccurring guests that always give us all the good nuggets like agenda man and whoever else, Kate, how cool. Oh,

Katie: 27:26

absolutely. Yeah, no,

Amy: 27:28

yeah. All right, listeners, whoever is listening. Please DM us and let us know if you want this to happen. And we can do a collab that will fit we'll start planning. I'm all about it and

Rachel: 27:38

do it. I was literally on my list. So look into it.

Katie: 27:40

That's amazing.

Amy: 27:41

Yeah, absolutely. So what are the things that you're seeing across your community? It sounds like you know, ranges broad age range, which is amazing. Is there like one thing you're seeing that everyone struggles with? Is it the motivation to exercise not knowing what to eat? Is there like a shared challenge that everyone's facing?

Rachel: 27:58

The biggest thing? And even like before me, I didn't know this was possible is the consistency like yeah, my friends are like, how the hell have you been doing this for three years? Like, I've just been consistently healthy, because like, life gets in the way you get sidetracked, you go on a vacation and forget about everything else when you come back. And like the biggest thing is getting back in the saddle. And like, you'll see our chat on Monday. Everybody's like, so back in and you always have to get back in it. You can't like I just don't let myself get into those two to three month funks that I used that used to be my life. Like I would be really healthy for a month and Ambiga busy life socks,

Amy: 28:42

but then you break the seal. Like

Rachel: 28:44

yeah, that's and I just, I feel like not doing that is so important. I also think food is like so intimidating, especially if you're not a cook or don't like cooking. And we all know and a total like people that asked me this too. I'm like, for me the biggest thing was food because like no matter what I have to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner. And like if you're busy and working like you got to get something and so instead of like ordering delivery dudes Chick fil A spicy chicken sandwich which like I want and love every single day, I'm just like walking down stairs and go to get a salad or I really try and bring leftovers. And so as part of our health club, we have over 100 easy simple recipes that are six main ingredients or less that are like curated by our community when somebody like when your friends share a recipe and they go I put this together we actually turn it into a Nami official recipe and have it on our site we have you know it's not like a long blog post of how to make the right what to get what to do and like some tips and that's really it until a lot of our community make that we also have like a recipe shares channel on slack so like you guys said like when somebody makes you saw healthy recipe you want to make people LIKE share their favorite recipes from the New York Times and from Divine dish everybody loves. Yeah, go twos, even Melissa wood and her recipes are so great. So

Amy: 30:12

it's so funny. It's so true. Because I do that with my girlfriends. I have like this chat with my high school girlfriends that we've had forever. And we all talk about a million things. And we always do that with recipes. Like I'm like, I'm making salmon tonight, like, give me the easiest way to do it. And someone's like, oh, just put it you know, and if two steps I'm like, great, and then I write it down because then I'm like, Okay, here's so I have like a note like I should I'll come into the community and just dump the note in but it's literally like recipes from Katie recipe for my friends that are easy, because I don't I'm not a good cook. So it's so straightforward. And it's real people giving it to you that are busy, so you know where you're

Rachel: 30:45

coming from and be like, Why the fuck did I choose to make

Amy: 30:49

wine later?

Rachel: 30:51

All like, you know, you can have a crazy day and still make our recipes. And I feel like that's what I needed. Because I also have never knew like you said if I was going to make a recipe is going to be like, a two hour thing or can this be like an 18 minute thing? Yeah, bringing glass of wine.

Katie: 31:06

Does your community get together? Like do you have groups that are local that you do things with? And do you find like you have different pockets of people that get together?

Rachel: 31:15

Yes, we have people all over from like Oregon, California, New York, down in South Florida. So really like everyone is welcome. We are just starting obviously with COVID Like it was interesting because I was like oh well I started this before ko read and then COVID hit I was like Oh this is nice. We like have this community that is just a virtual even though it happened by chance. And now we're starting little pockets we'll get together. We just this week on Tuesday did like a tacos and Margarita. We all just met for happy hour so far. And we shared all this healthy stuff. And now we're doing the recap it's gonna go to our whole community of like the vibrator from goop everybody swears by like this The are a girl in our community that did prolong this past week and wants to share like that she's now going to do the one week on me reset menu because you like that stuff that just like that sharing. I feel like it's so important. But yes, I would love to continue to do more like in person events. Also like collabing with other brands and maybe going to a yoga class and then to lunch. I want events that like I want to go to I feel like my work that you wanted to Yeah, my work is like very, like long dinners and all that. So like my Avi me event I want to be like okay, APM like we're all going to bed, like first meet up just to be like we all go get our beauty rise when you have a five year yeah,

Katie: 32:46

that's so funny. That's I'm learning because it just sounds like such a great place to hit. First of all, it's like you're with like minded people that you can, you know, Riff ideas back and forth with and then learn so much as well and gain motivation and gained a sense of community. It's, it's a really great idea. And I have to tell you, I'm kind of a Francophile. So I love the little French spin on it then blue health club. Very cute.

Rachel: 33:13

So, um, but yeah, what is something that people would also be proud to wear, we always have like, a summer on me hat. And I want people to just be like, that just means I'm like, really healthy, and like take care of myself or like, at least try. Like it doesn't have something.

Amy: 33:29

It's so great. So how do people so people are gonna listening to Thursday are definitely going to want to be interested in joining. So what happens like what's the

Rachel: 33:37

night you can join, I can send you guys after a code so that trainers can join with a little discount, and you just get into the community and then three times a year you we do launches. Our next launch is our plant based fall reset, where we really try and be plant based for a month. Obviously, like you can still eat meat just majority plans, and share all healthy recipes. We'll do interviews with really healthy people that are plant based. And it's just to really try and get into that mindset. So that we have a fall plant base, we have a super clean January, that's always like our really big one which is no booze, and people put their spin on it. I'm like no booze during the week or whatever their lives on the no booze, but it makes it really fun because you always want to like do something come January 1, and then we just finished our summer of strength which is a month really focus on movement. So those are our big launches but you can join any time because like our big thing is like when you're ready your frickin ready and like you want to go now you don't want to wait for like that next program to come out. Like get all our stuff you can get our one week reset menu which I show serious results if you really stick with it. It is like insane what people see from Justice one week of clean eating and it was prepared by everyone Just your dietitian. So like I'm really big on that. Like, I'm not going to prepare your menu. But I will test it out and I will tell you if I forget. Yeah,

Amy: 35:10

yeah. What? What are your what are some favorite brands that you're seeing? Like the community likes right now? Like, do you have any good favorites?

Rachel: 35:17

I was just gonna when I heard about your salmon, there's just one kind of, um, some Oh M SLM. It's like, seasoning blends. That's really cool and trendy and people are really loving that. People we have like a product RX channel where people share like, all product X people are really liking this Ithaca hummus. Yes. Have you guys know, recess? CBD drinks? I

Katie: 35:44

saw I almost bought them the other day? Yeah.

Rachel: 35:48

Careful, because I had one. Because like, Oh, I'll have one. I was like a Friday. And you can feel that. Oh, really? Really? And I was like, yeah, definitely. I was just thinking I was gonna be like, chill, and I was like, I definitely felt like fuzzy but Zen and like a good way. And so stuff like that. We also have a Trader Joe finds channel. Oh, that shares like all the best things from Trader Joe's because you know, it can be a little overwhelming just seeing everything. But a lot of members share like their favorite salad. There's like this superfood burrito that's filled with quinoa and sweet potatoes. It's in like their pre made section that somebody recently tried and loved so many.

Katie: 36:32

It's so funny. I feel like our brands are so aligned. Right, don't you, Amy.

Amy: 36:38

And Rachel reached out to us, Katie, I was like, I literally looked on your website and read all about me. And I was like, this is like such a amazing union. I don't remember Rachel, I wrote you back. And I'm like, your brand ethos is so similar to ours. I love it. And it's so it's just so nice meeting, someone that's like, has the same shared mindset, which I'm sure your whole community is like, and it's just, you know, it's just been Katie and I and like our friends. And we started this really because we were telling each other same thing, the exact same kind of things. And we're like, and other people want to know about it. So we're just gonna talk about it and like, do reviews? And do you know,

Rachel: 37:14

doing less? Yeah, I think this is my like, natural conversation. Even when a me I'm like, How are you doing it? Like, how are you working out like that? How are you eating like that? Like, I was always so curious. Because that's how I would get motivated. So like, it's natural, like, now I have on me, and people are like, how do you do on me and have your law firm?

Amy: 37:37

That's what I was going to ask you. Because being that I also have like a full time, you know, executive role to big brand, which I love. Also doing this is I mean, it's a lot. It's just a lot of work. And again, same as you like, I love it. This is my natural conversation. And this is like what Katie and I are super passionate about. So it's not it's not a job, but it's still like, you know, a lot of time

Rachel: 38:00

and like yourself, like do taxes and pay invoices. And like, it's not just talking about health and wellness like 20. Exactly, there would be like, millions of them, right, like, yeah, so a business and I think that's a lot of my friends, like, want to start something. I'm always the biggest encourager, but then they're like, damn, this shit is hard. And I'm like, I know. Right, right. Like not that many.

Amy: 38:22

It's not a it's an What's that phrase? It's not a sprint. It's a marathon. It's

Katie: 38:27

not a sprint. It's a marathon.

Amy: 38:30

Yeah, whatever that is. That's

Rachel: 38:31

my goal is like really slow and steady. Like I don't. If I'm going to start any business, of course, I want it to be successful. And I want it to be big and like, I want it to make an impact. So I'm not like, you know, playing small here. But I'm also just being realistic that this isn't my full time job. I love it. It's like feeding this passion of mine. Like I don't want it to go away. Because there's definitely been days and I'm like, should I not do this? Like should I kind of like I don't need to Should I just like close it down. And I'm like, but I like it really fills up My Cup. Yeah, we happy and I feel like, it's so different than my day job. That it's like refreshing in a way. Whereas I love my day job. I love working with founders, I love being a lawyer like I'm so Intuit and get fired up by it. And we have a team of 20 and it's just, you know, I love it. And this is just different. And if I need for a week to just put the brakes on on me, I can put the brakes on me. I can't You can't do that with your full time job. You're in it right in it. But find something that's a low lift to find something you're passionate about. I always you know, people are always asking me about side hustles and I'm like, it truly has to be a side hustle passion like,

Amy: 39:53

right it's like a side passion more than because I like I used to Yeah, yeah, like I just it's so funny when You say hustle like the hustle culture. Because I think like, a few years ago, I was definitely like hustle like, and now it's like that word bothers me so much. Because it's like that idea of like hustling where like you never rest, like, to me, it means like, you're grinding and you're getting burned out versus like, a side passion where it fills your cup to your point. So then it's like, easy to do. And yeah, you might not have all the time in the world for it. I mean, we don't but but you can and

Katie: 40:29

yeah, and slow and steady wins the race. And it's just like the consistency like keep going and and keep motivating each other. And yeah, for sure. I love it. Congratulations on on all of your success. It's really It's such a really fun, great idea. And I just think it's going to be I mean, you guys are already huge. It's going to it's going to be really massive. So that's, it's really exciting. And I kind of

Rachel: 40:54

have an impact and create a brand that like shows people what is possible to be healthy. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, that's all I want. I want to share with my friends, but I also want to share it with strangers too.

Katie: 41:05

That's amazing. And love it.

Amy: 41:07

Love that a bit. Alright, let's get into our rap session. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Rachel: Waking up at 5: 41:14

30am I know I feel like if I did this is just like a three week ago, Revelation, I have actually interviewed one of our members who would always talk on the community about waking up early. And I'm like, Okay, I gotta like talk to you about this, because I just can't imagine it. And now it has been a complete game changer and like all sometimes just wake up and go on a walk. And I took little kids and I want to be there for getting them ready and like I liked that morning of getting them ready and being there. So like, if I can be done with like, my working out and you know, moving

my body by 6: 41:53

30am that's ideal for me.

Katie: 41:56

Yeah, I completely get that right. And really quickly to and I just wanted to mention this because Amy, you said earlier your Nirvana was getting up and going for a walk this morning. And also Rachel you just said you do that as well. There is science behind like when you get up in the morning, the very first thing you do is get out in the sun it sets your internal clock and it gets your body like everything physiologically working in the way that it's supposed to naturally to be like optimized for the day so there's a lot of science behind that. There's a reason why you feel so great when you do that. So listeners go walking in the morning sun. Alright, so the next one we call it your five minute flow you just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber pinged you they're five minutes away. What are you going to do to get into that Uber as quickly as you can what are your holy grails your go to to get out the door?

Rachel: 42:45

So I'm going to use I don't know if you guys have heard of GE beauty but they are a beauty shop they have shops in Miami and Canada and they have a primer that is amazing. I use it every day. So I would use it my G beauty primer I would put on mascara and I would put on workout clothes with a jean jacket this is a new Zara crop it's So Jackie it's

Amy: 43:09

really what I was looking at it going like

Rachel: 43:13

I have so many jean jackets it is like my go to and I like some conference calls. I kind of just like put them over you can't even see I'm in workout but yeah for sure. draped over my shoulders with a big hoops like I always wear like big hoops or something so I have so many jean jackets were like scams on Instagram, by them favorite daughter that foster sisters have a really good one too. But that's kind of my five minute jam and I'm out the door. Love it.

Amy: 43:46

Love it. And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Rachel: 43:51

I think by like following my greens, water move, repeat. I know it's back to me. But that really I know that is what makes me feel good. And if I feel good, I am like a rock star at work. I am happy with my husband. And like I want to play with my kids when I get home and like be with them and not be irritated.

Katie: 44:13

Yeah, I need to do I love

Amy: 44:15

that. Well you can tell it's working because your energy is amazing and like you just seem like you just feel really good. And

Katie: 44:22

I want to start to I have to add the greens I do the the water and the move out the greens every day. I need to remember that.

Amy: 44:29

It's okay, I have a recommendation for you that I'm going to talk about and then the next time we record product jump

Rachel: 44:38

because a lot of us even before I was like two to three salads a week I was like every day like I thought it was being held. Right. But like it makes a difference. Yeah,

Amy: 44:47

it really does. Okay, well thank you so much, Rachel for being on the show. We love talking to you. We can't wait to join AMI health ASAP and we're going to close out with a mantra from Katie this mantra

Katie: 44:59

for For this episode I think is just kind of, it's relevant because we're talking about people starting a journey with me and, you know, trying new things. And so anyway, I'll just say it. Trust the weight. Embrace the uncertainty. Enjoy the beauty of becoming. So. Oh,

Amy: 45:22

that's so nice.

Katie: 45:23

And then also I feel like Rachel's mantra greens water move repeat. Is that it? Yeah.

Amy: 45:33

That's gonna be my mind now. I

Katie: 45:34

love thank you so much Rachel says great.

Amy: 45:36

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 62 - Do You Know What Chi Means? We Didn’t Either. Breaking Down Traditional Chinese Medicine With Dr. Jenelle Kim (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 62 - Do You Know What Chi Means? We Didn’t Either. Breaking Down Traditional Chinese Medicine With Dr. Jenelle Kim.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are sitting down with Dr. Janelle Kim. She's a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese medicine, a ninth generation doctor and herb ologists, which is very cool. We're excited to hear what that means. And the founder and chief formulator at J. B. K wellness labs, Janelle helps her patients incorporate Eastern philosophies into western lifestyle for optimal health. So I can't wait to dive in and hear what all of that means. So thank you for for coming to

Dr. Janelle Kim: 1:05

having me. I honored to be here. And so excited for our conversation.

Katie: 1:09

Well, we'd like to start off with our nirvana of the week, just a little something that brought you joy today or this week. Just a little highlight. And I'm gonna go ahead and ask Amy, what was your Nirvana that start with you him?

Amy: 1:22

Well, let's see. Um, well, I would say so my kids go to summer camp. And it's been like a while June just with the end of school and getting them ready to go to camp and all the stress and anxiety and just craziness but they left for camp over the weekend. And it was definitely bittersweet. And it's definitely quiet in the house. But I would say my Nirvana was just getting those first pictures of them enjoying and having fun. And I could like exhale and be like, okay, they're doing, they're doing good. They're in their nirvana. They're running around. They're outside and super happy. So that was definitely my highlight and nirvana of the week. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 2:05

That's really sweet. Because I feel the pressure and the stress of like saying goodbye to them on the plane, I'm sure for you. And this isn't the first year so it's probably getting a little bit easier. But to see them happy is I'm sure such a nice relief. So mine is camp related as well. The girls that for the first year are going to day camp and we dropped them off on Monday. They're there all day nine to four, which maybe isn't like the longest day for my eight year old but it is probably for research is for But picking them up. That was my Nirvana the first day and then hopping in the car like smiling ear to ear so happy. had the best time felt great about it couldn't wait to go back tomorrow. It's just like a sigh of relief. We're doing the right thing. They're good. So that's, that's nice. What about you to know, we're

Dr. Janelle Kim: 2:48

certainly all on the same page. Because right when you said that the first thing came to my mind was also my two young boys. And there is something about picking them up. I every single day, I get butterflies in my stomach. It sounds interesting or funny to some, but I have a feeling you both totally understand what I'm saying. And just see their little faces, especially the little one, you know, because he still hugs me and gives me you know, a huge embrace and tells me how much he loves me. And it's funny, because now my nine year old is kind of similar, but in totally different way. And it's so interesting to watch them, you know, at different stages, and it's definitely something I'm so grateful. It's very grounding in pretty much brings me into the very present moment, no matter what's happening in the day. So I would completely agree that that's my

Amy: 3:30

sweet.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 3:31

You have a night always nine and five. So yes.

Amy: 3:35

Nice. Yes. Awesome. I know. I love that. I have two boys as well. Yeah, they are 12 and 14, so are no more than 15. Sorry.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 3:44

No, tell me about it. I just turned nine and five. April and May so fast. It flies.

Amy: 3:52

It really does.

Katie: 3:54

Alright, so let's get into it. I'm excited to hear about this because I don't know about you AMI D I don't know a lot about Chinese medicine. And I definitely don't know a lot about our biology. Am I saying I'm saying that correctly? Right or biology or about to be in our biologist. So Dr. Ken, would you prefer us to call you Dr. Kim or Janelle or Dr. Janelle. But Janelle? Absolutely. So Janelle, help us understand, like, what are the cornerstones of Chinese medicine? And what does it mean to be an apologist? So

Dr. Janelle Kim: 4:28

those are definitely big questions, and I love them. So the cornerstone of Chinese medicine and understanding the body, the way I would describe it is understanding how everything functions and flows as one whole body right? So mentally, physically, Eastern medicine actually even gets into spiritually not so much like the outer realms of spirit necessarily, but that we connect in many different ways with our body. And it's how we, the way I like to explain it and when I speak around the world, is how we can make our body function at its optimal and flow. And that's how I would break down Eastern So it might not be exactly how everyone else does, but especially to the outside world who doesn't know so much about Eastern medicine. I love that explanation. And so then it utilizes herbal medicine, and acupuncture other modalities as well. We hear about cupping, and guasha, and all these different techniques that are now coming into the Western understanding. But it's using all of these modalities, these ancient practices that have existed for 1000s of years, again, how to make our function, how to make them our body functions, optimum and flow properly, because I always say, if everything functions and flows, even your skin cells, to your organs, to your muscles, and joints, then you have longevity, and that to myself, in my humble opinion, should be all of our goals. So I love that.

Amy: 5:44

I love that. So is it sort of like, and we're I think we're seeing we've actually interviewed a lot of people on many of those subjects. And so is this sort of like this Mind, Body Spirit, holistic Well, being when you hear the word, Chinese medicine or Eastern medicine, I think that's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 5:58

very inaccurate. I do every single aspect of it, because everything comes from, you know, Chief, everything comes from the universe. And we're a macro, we are microcosm of the universe, and the universe is a macrocosm of us. And so yes, when you kind of look at it that way, you start to break everything down. And it is very holistic in that manner. So that's where I said, you should go ahead, I think you're taking the risk.

Katie: 6:22

What is, yeah, help us understand what she is, I've heard the word. But what was amazing,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 6:28

because 20 years ago, when I started in the beauty and wellness industry here in the United States, if I said she people would look at me and wonder what in the world is she talking about? Right? So she, again, exists everywhere around us and within us, from the Dow or the universe, for those that resonate with this understanding, right from the universe came Qi first. And that's how everything breaks down, then we're speaking of the universe, and our bodies. One other principle, you're here that you'll you will hear about is yin and yang, right. And so I don't want to go too far into detail. But a greater kind of a bigger perspective way of understanding is that from chi, then came that symbol of yin and yang. And that is the dichotomy, that duality of everything in our entire world. And it's really important to understand that duality, that dichotomy of the two when understanding our human body as well. So what I mean by that is, we have our universe, for example, a very simple principle to understand, Yin and Yang is like day and night, right? Yin and Yang is loud and soft, even youngest, feminine and masculine. And within each is the other is they're constantly changing. And that's why if you are familiar, most people are nowadays, with that symbol, it almost looks like two fish, and on one side is black, and one side is white. And then they have two little eyes almost. And that literally symbolizes what I just said that there is constant duality all the time. And so now looking at the human body, we have that in our bodies as well, we have those components of yin and yang. And what I mean by that is, Yin is more substance, right? It's like our body fluids is our blood. Yong is activity. That's our chi. And so when you kind of think of it this way, you could almost imagine that, of course, the Western way of understanding, we have circulation, and we have our arteries and our veins and our pumps. And that's everything keeps moving. There's so much more of course to it. But we have that understanding, then Eastern medicine, one way to understand it is that chi is exactly what makes blood flow. That's why I'm talking to you right now. Right? So and when it comes to movement, which is one of the three kinds of EMS are the three pillars I talked about medicine, meditation, and movement, through movement, especially through chi gong, people can actually feel cheap. So it's not really something so, you know, it actually can be tangible. It's not something you necessarily see. But every single thing on this desk at tree, you know, you and I, we all have CI, and so I hope that's a easy way to understand she is. Yeah,

Katie: 8:48

I kind of took it as it's the balance of the energy and the physicality that we have within ourselves. And that's all around us. Is that absolutely kind of

Dr. Janelle Kim: 8:59

defined as vital energy, you'll see that a lot. So, so Exactly, right. Okay.

Amy: 9:05

So interesting. I never that that symbol, the black and white symbol, I think you just said it means chi, the US that yeah, the Yeah, I never realized that. I guess I've just seen that symbol in the context of yoga or meditation and sort of knew what it meant. But the way that you just described it totally makes sense with like, the, the black and the white. And it was very

Dr. Janelle Kim: 9:27

interesting. My favorite thing is to, you know, have things make sense. That's my favorite thing as well. And that's actually one of the reasons I love Eastern medicine and Eastern philosophy. It can be a little different sometimes from the ways in the western world about what we understand. But it always goes down to principle. You know, we're all human. We all are born into this world, no matter what our beliefs, what our ethnicity, what are age, all of that we all it all comes down to principles. And so I find that when I share those principles just as much as I enjoy, and it just resonates make sense. I see that No matter where I go in the world, so I'm so glad that you see that as well as well.

Katie: 10:04

Yeah. And what are the three M's that's part of your philosophy and your practice, right.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 10:10

So the three M's are basically like the pillars that hold up the whole house, right? And they are medicine, meditation and movement. And so medicine to me, is ultimately the formulation, my lab, everything that I've devoted my life to on the herb ology end, right. Meditation is actually the book I just put out, for example, it's the philosophy, it's the way of life, I call it living meditation. Right? So I'm sure we can go into that I won't go too far. But just as we sit down and practice different meditative techniques, or want to be in that certain mindset, living meditation, there principles that have been passed down my lineage for centuries upon centuries, of course, not just my lineage, but they exist, right for 1000s of years. And it's ways to look at every single moment with a certain kind of mindset, knowing that you will always have a choice, right. And so that's kind of the philosophy of life. And finally, it's movement, right ways to truly move our body, it can be any kind of exercise, but particularly movement, again, that's kind of been passed down by our ancient sages for centuries, as ways to really not just exercise externally look good, have strong muscles have a sleek body, but also to really exercise your internal organs and strengthen that chi. And so what I say are those three atoms, medicine, meditation and movement, if we incorporate those into our daily life, constantly, because that's the way it really is, then we can achieve longevity, happiness, health, balance, no matter what is happening in our life, doesn't mean we don't have down days or hard moments. But we realize that through that we can get ourselves out of it. Right? So

Amy: 11:45

I love those three pillars, because they're easy to remember. And it's something you can always think about, if you're just kind of like your Yeah, she is off or you're feeling, you know, just different, you could kind of go back to that which which I like. One of the things I was reading about when I was reading about you was that your father was a Korean monk, and raised this remote mountain raised in a remote mountain tempo, which is incredible. So I want to hear about that. But then there was something else that I thought was so interesting, where you said he taught you about, I don't know if I'm saying Right, right, but don't cheat or drunk on your thoughts. And I'd love to hear one

Dr. Janelle Kim: 12:22

of my favorite principles. So in the book, I break down kind of the practice or the way of life, the living meditation, it's my young son, just to be clear, the Korean art of living meditation, and young son translates as meditation. But to me at that living meditation, that's why I keep discussing that, right. And so the way I break down the book is into chapters, of course, but I call them keys. And there are eight keys. And those are the keys that we can practice in our daily life to achieve that constant state of loving meditation. Right. And so key number three, is absolutely one of my favorites, which is what you just said, Amy, it is stop being drunk on your own thoughts. And the Korean phrase is Don't cheat. And especially in this day and age, in my humble opinion, I think that if we all were aware of this, how much different our lives our world, our relationships, everything would be. And ultimately what it means is just like we can be intoxicated by alcohol, for example, we can become drunk, we can, we have to be aware that we can become drunk on our own thoughts, that it's, that's why I love that we started with that yin and yang. It's always a state of balance, and we hear it all the time. But again, if we stop for a moment, and really think about what that means balance, even looking at that symbol, it means every moment we have to be aware of ourselves or not, it's our choice. But if we choose to be aware of ourselves, we have to be careful that even if we feel so strong about something that we don't become, don't worry about it, we don't become so extreme in our thinking, How often do we see that, of course, we might not agree with something, and we feel know what you're doing is incorrect. But there's a fine line where all of a sudden, you're in that same boat, and you don't even know you're standing there. It's always important to expand our perspective, put ourselves in someone else's shoes, how do I know how that person feels? And I may not know completely, but if I stopped for one moment, whether it is our children, whether it's our spouse, whether it's a good friend in business, and I stop and think for one moment, I want to see where you're coming from, it does something to our minds. It's a self discipline that creates different habits. And again, at the end of the day, it's our choice if we want to take it to be dolci and become totally drunk and stuck on our thoughts. Not bendable. You know, it doesn't mean we can't be steadfast, right, of course, but just see the other side. And that's what that key number three, stop being drunk on your own thoughts.

Amy: 14:38

I love that that's so powerful. And I love the phrase that you just said, Don't become dodgy about it. Because I'm totally going to use that with people and they're not going to know what they're talking about the startup company.

Katie: 14:49

Does that also, does it also apply to like becoming drunk on your own thoughts of things that your self obsessing over like if there's something that you get Just incessantly or like picking on yourself about or thinking about something you're going through or constantly being in a negative state, is it? Does it apply to that as well, not just in regards to going back and forth.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 15:12

I really love that you say that, you know, you may be one of the first people who have brought it up in that way. So direct in that manner. And that's exactly right. We absolutely can can also have it pointing back to us that that, that negative effect, right, almost like the symptoms of getting too caught becoming too extreme. Absolutely. And so once again, we see how these tools, because that's what they are, you know, that's why I feel very compelled to share them. These are, yes, I am part of this lineage, I'm the first woman in this lineage, I'm the first to ever share it, you know, east and west, I probably should have shared Well, my father did grow up for a period of his life in the remote mountains of East Asia and Korea. It's like a movie, it's my own father. And it seems like that sometimes, you know, my mother, on the other hand, is American. So I believe, you know, I came into this world. Again, it was my choice, but but I've taken it on almost as a duty to realize that I am able to have that east west that I come from this lineage of 1000s of years, then a little bit more easy to grasp centuries of these tools that help us to see a little bit more clearly, and hopefully make them relatable to as many people as possible, you know, so I love and like you said, see. So

Katie: 16:24

it's really beautiful. And you are I love, I love the relatability that you're bringing with your books and everything as well and the one of the M's medicine, so that is where the the apology comes in. Yes. And so what kind of herbs is this? Are you using adaptogens, and things of that

Dr. Janelle Kim: 16:43

sort. So adaptions is something that I have spoken about for quite some time now. I will backtrack a little bit, that makes a little bit more sense for everyone. So of course, I was born into this, but it wasn't until Fast Forward seriously. I was a young adult that I realized, and it just hit me like that, that this is the direction I wanted to go in my life. And it was just like that you hear people say that I certainly had that experience. You know, it was that moment in time. And I had to make a choice. And that's how it felt to me. And I chose I was actually on the direction to study Western medicine. And I decided, You know what, my whole life, I've seen things and it didn't hit any kind of until that moment. I've seen so many things treated, or how can I say I want to say it properly. But I've seen so many conditions balanced, let's put it that way that people were not aware of or in my surroundings. And it kind of hit me as a young adult, I have to share this people have to know about this in this part of the world. And so that's where I kind of went into Eastern medicine and got my on my road to becoming a doctor. That didn't happen until a couple of years ago when I was about to have my second son actually holding that doctorate. But But yes, in our country, we understand Chinese medicine, I often refer to Eastern or traditional oriental medicine because I come from a lineage of Korea, right. And so of course, I've devoted myself to understanding Chinese medicine existed there before it moved into Korea, but Korea is known for certain acupuncture techniques and definitely known for advancement in herbal medicine. So just kind of putting that out there. Now in this country, we think of them kind of one in the same acupuncture herbal medicine. In East Asia, they're a little bit more while they completely come from the same route. As I've kind of already explained, you choose. And then this country you see that a bit to usually go like to the Department of acupuncture or to the Department of herbal medicine and my lineage are we definitely have acupuncture techniques, secret ones as well that have gone through my lineage, but really my family my lineage focused on that herbal medicine aspect. And so to kind of break that down a little bit, answer your question in a moment about adaptogens Katie, you know, I speak around the world about different herbal ingredients. So important. We have so many I mean, every medicine to some extent, could be traced back to plants, right plant medicine, but also super important is the understanding of formulation. And that's what I really devoted my life to. That's what my lab does. We contract manufacture products from skincare, body care, internal medicine, meaning supplements, tinctures, you know, topicals, for muscles and joints. And all of that is really based on certain formulas. So of course, the understanding those individual herbal ingredients, but like the recipes, the perfect and secret recipes that have been passed on for centuries. And so that's something I think is really important and I've certainly, I hope I've made some headway. I believe I have definitely been at kind of the forefront in the beauty and wellness industry. Having people understand that in any product. Again, internal external topical skincare haircare you can have the best ingredients, but if they're not formulated properly, if the ingredients don't synergistically work together, it might not be as good as people may think. And there's so many products out there that are just kind of put together. I don't want to say thrown together, but that's what I probably should send. Right. And so so that's kind of the understanding of herbal Medicine. And then finally, you speak of adaptogens. That's something I definitely talked about for 20 years. 20 years ago when I brought this up again, that, you know, talking about herbal medicine was over everyone's head. I mean, I started in the spa industry. You know, we were creating products that were in four seasons, Ritz Carlton's, you know, all of the your beautiful hotels and resorts. And I remember being at the forefront of natural products, which first of all, it's hard to believe there was a time that natural products like people didn't even really get it. What are you talking about? It wasn't that easy to make them. There weren't a lot of options of ingredients, herbal ingredients, are you kidding me? People would come over literally and tell me, you know, Janelle, at the time, I wasn't a doctor, this all sounds great, but I don't think people are gonna get it, I'd get rid of the Asian thing. And I would kind of just look and smile. And I went back to you know, we're all human. And I know that what I have to share, if I do my job properly, it's going to make sense. And it's going to make a big difference. And here we are 20 years later. And you know, Korean beauty is the biggest, you know, beauty industry, basically, in the world and eastern and western, it's all integrating. So it's such a funny thing. And adaptogens were part of that. It's a way another way to understand. So adaptogen adaptogenic herbs can be traced like that word to like the 1940s 1945, if I remember correctly, but definitely in 1945 1947, around that time. And it was by Dr. Lazarus, and this understanding that there's these plants that help us to adapt, because when they grow in the earth, would they have to go through their adaptability, how they survived how they lived, when we put them into our body, it helps us to do the same. Create that balance, right. And that's, again, I can go into many details, but I think this is the best way to understand it. That's what an adaptogen is it helps our bodies adapt under stress. And there's a certain category of herbal ingredients that go into this category of adaptogens. Now, why I said 20 years ago, I I wish to utilize that understanding as a way to help people understand herbal medicine. That principle exists, you know, since the beginning of herbal medicine, that is herbology. And so if we want to understand it as adaptogens awesome. And I think we're still at the very beginning of that, you know, so I use a lot of adaptogenic herbs in our formulations, again, from skincare, to capsules to tinctures you name it because of those particular herbal ingredients in that category. Their ability to help us balance they're very powerful. A lot of certain adaptogenic mushrooms I speak on a lot. I've been reading a lot of articles about that, you know, mushrooms are a hot topic. And certainly there's different ways of understanding the different types out there. But I still think we have, particularly in our country, not even scratched the surface of adaptogenic mushrooms, you know, your ratios and Chaga and lion's mane and, you know, and then you have your beautiful your stragglers, ginseng, Angelica. I mean, I could keep going, but those are some of the important ones. So

Katie: 22:57

yeah, that's why I brought it up. Because there it seems like in the last few years, it's become just more prevalent. And, I mean, you see it all over social media, it's it's gotten to be pretty trendy, and it's found in a lot of really beautiful, natural clean products and people seem to be loving it. And that's, it's really the only verb out of the herb ology that I was familiar with. So that's why I started there. But I'm sure there's a massive abundance and you actually reminded me while you're while you're speaking about her biology, I was doing acupuncture years ago when I was living in the city and it was in the summer and I was kind of like intolerant to heat and my acupuncturist I believe. I believe she was Chinese, she gave me a tea that she said if I drink this tea will help my body to like, expel the heat that I'm not able to process and it it did. It worked. I loved it. I drink it all summer, really hot summer in the city, but I completely forgot about them.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 23:58

And that goes it's fascinating like our very first minute of conversation that there's there's hot and cold to you and then Yan Yan is more cold Young is more hot, you know, and you constantly have to balance that. Sorry.

Amy: 24:12

Yeah, what I was gonna say which was also interesting just for like breaking it down for for people who don't know the space as much. I think when I hear adaptogens or herbal medicine, I think of it as like something you ingest. It's more like like supplements and things like that. And it really just opened my eyes to like wait, that's actually in beauty products and so many other products not just like things you're ingesting for your health. So that was Yeah, I guess naturally those things are in other products. I just just really think about it that way about like

Dr. Janelle Kim: 24:48

a medical doctor correlation. You can have these incredible ingredients and you hear on many different platforms or ways of understanding for lack of a better way of putting it that it does it depends on how much it can penetrate right how wash your body absorbs it. And that's where I talked about that importance of proper formulation. Because when you ingest an adaptogenic herb it goes in it literally simulates through your digestion, right? And you, you take out the nutrients, again, if it's formulated properly, and it agrees with you, so on and so forth. And so the one thing with topical, is there is a little bit more attention that has to be put on that understanding of making sure it penetrates and absorbs into the body, if that makes sense. You know, so it's even more

Amy: 25:31

of a question. And this might be hard to answer, but I think our listeners might want to know, so if you were talking to someone about, you know, using herbal medicine for different things, like could you name something that most people would benefit from? Like, it's something they're ingesting for their health, something for their skin, and like, okay,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 25:51

absolutely learn hair. And so, please remember, like I just said, it's one thing to have just one ingredient, it's another to have proper combination, right? Because, and I will answer your question, Amy. But I really, this is really important, because often, or almost always, almost always, because there are situations where taking just ginseng, for example, you know, all by itself can be so powerful, right for energy, depending on what kind of gyms and especially for women's for balancing hormones, right. So there's one that I just named, but you have to be careful, especially when it's just one herbal ingredient different than some of our drugs, if you will, because those side effects can be a lot more extreme in comparison to most plant medicine, but plant medicines are still very powerful and important. And what I mean by that is you can have Korean Red Ginseng, which is one of the most powerful ingredients, I think now around the world we notice and in Korea that is so prized. I mean, one small root of Korean Red Ginseng could be easily half a million dollars, I'm talking about how powerful it is in the body. Right, especially for for example, as being woman on the phone today, balancing different hormones, printing, energy, libido, whatever that might be so many different aspects. But here's what's interesting, if someone who has high blood pressure takes a whole bunch of Korean Red Ginseng, it could be really not so good for them because it increases your chi and raises chi. And with with a high blood pressure is a really kind of easy one to understand. That's why I'm giving this example, you can see where raising your chi strong is not really the best thing to do. And so that's where I just want to note that. So Korean Red Ginseng is a huge urgency in general is one of the most it's Ren Shen in Chinese medicine and Ren is human. And so literally, if you look at a ginseng root, they say it looks like a human being, which is really interesting. If you look at it, you can see it like the arms, the head, the leg is really interesting. And that's how herbal medicine 1000s of years ago, that's how they came up with these names and this understanding. So that's a really important one. For hair one in general, would be hibiscus I put that in a lot of our hair formulas for skin as well. I mean, skin and hair are kind of an extension. It's kind of one in the same. But hibiscus is so good for blood circulation. Right. So I mean, there's so many more, but I'm just kind of calling those that come to mind Angelica.

Amy: 28:09

I haven't heard about that already. And so that's a new one. I mean, I've heard of it, but not in the sense that you're describing.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 28:14

And then remember all your examples. Example For immune. Oh, yeah. Skin. Yes. So struggle is Angelica, you know, those are ones that you'll definitely find in the formulas that that I create at the lab.

Katie: 28:28

And I love that you're mentioning that you still have to be mindful and careful. Like even though these are natural, and they're herbs, they can be very powerful. I know not to completely go back to the adaptogens. But part of the reason why I'm so familiar with them is because I have to be careful because they affect your cortisol and I have a condition where I don't produce cortisol. So I actually can't really use adaptogens much like my other person could, which is kind of a bummer, because there's so many great products of the minute that I you know, read but but yeah, it's a good thing for the listener to pay attention to and to maybe check with your doctor first before starting something,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:04

you know, after Yeah, another great thing when you're out there looking for supplements like one thing because people asked me that often. And you know, we contract men, we work behind a lot of brands. And so we that means a lot to us, we keep that confidentiality, but you know, you kind of can see our stamp when you will see these formulas out in the world. But another great thing for people to do is to really look into who these companies are, who they're formulators are, you know because then you can start to trust a company. You know what I mean? A brand otherwise it is overwhelming. You know, there's so much out there. And if something becomes especially nowadays trendy, everyone jumps to doing it, you know, and

Amy: 29:40

so were the formulators is that noted on the packaging, because that's interesting. I always think of like brands that I like that I think have good ingredients from what I know but I've never actually looked further than like what lab is actually formulating. It's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:55

not always listed. To be honest. Usually you'll find if it really matters, I'm thinking of a few of our Our clients right now, usually you'll find that we really care about their formulas, their ingredients, they really have a purpose for that product. And now more and more you see it, because it resonates with people's everyone's kind of catching on, you look into their story, you know, who is the person behind it? Why are the happiness? What's their unique thing? You know? Is it high quality ingredients? That's a great one. Is it? I know some of our clients will speak on. It is the synergy between the ingredients, you know what I mean? And that is super key. So, yes, it is definitely something a good practice. Because again, I totally acknowledge it can be very overwhelming, stepping into a beauty store, a supplement department, whatever it might be, because there's just so much.

Amy: 30:42

Yeah, I was gonna ask that. If someone wants to go in their town or city to start utilizing some of these herbal medicine, what would you suggest? Like if they are already going to acupuncture would most likely that acupuncturist maybe have I know, my old acupuncturist that I used to do? I need to go back to this is reminding me had like, all these herbs raised on kind of what you needed. But like, if someone's not seeing an acupuncturist that has that as their like, where would you go to find good quality or charm,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 31:12

I mean, I'll just kind of make it as simple as possible. It is true acupuncturist will, or biologist, for example, they will look at your individual condition and really start to balance. Of course, every just like there's doctors who are so great and skilled at what they do. And there's some we're not as skilled. And so I want to acknowledge that the same thing happens with acupuncturist or biologists, you name it any kind of practitioner, right. And so that's a good way it's a little different. Like the formulas that we I create at my lab behind the brands are ones that can be handed out in general, right. So there's certain herbal ingredients like you kind of mentioned, Katie, I don't want to get too far into this. But it's important for people to understand that you know, if you have a certain cold, like, say you have a cold and what your cold is presenting as as a sore throat, well, technically, the way you treat that cold with a sore throat is different than treating a cold that doesn't have a sore throat, and you seem to have a really runny nose, I hope I'm not getting too detailed. But it's important for people to understand there's a difference in symptoms, because one cold has hot symptoms, that's the sore throat. And so you're not going to use a much a hot herbs, you know, too. And so that's how in depth herbal medicine can be. So for those types of more specific imbalances, cold is a little different, because we can put out supplements that can kind of boost immune system in general, right. That's a great place to start that kind of your acupuncturist or biologist, certain practitioners, you can then go to other places that offer it and really look into the supplements that exist and have people on the floors and what I mean is like Whole Foods, I think we have all over the country for the most part, especially east coast, west coast, right? Your your natural markets, I don't know if you have, for example, Farmer cup, but that's a great place and in the West here, that we have the I will definitely send people there when they're looking because the people I know that that are biologists, the herbalist on the floor are very, very good at what they do. It's very important to them. So that's kind of I hope this is answering the question, but you find good natural products store or if you're searching, if you don't have that option, and you are kind of looking online, do a bit of research and find I mean pharmerica is on for example, you know, I should you think I work for pharma guy keep saying your name. Because this was coming to mind right now. But that's where going back to what we just said, look into the story of that company, look into where their ingredients, you know, what matters to them. And that's how you can kind of narrow in on what works for you. And at the end of the day. Yes, so in Whole Foods. And I would have liked a bit, this is really important. At the end of the day, pay attention to how you feel is the most important thing. It goes back to that living meditation and those three pillars, you know, so often we look to our experts, which you should, in our practitioners or doctors, our yoga teachers, for example, and do that because they studied and they have, they have things to share. But at the end of the day, you need to be aware of yourself. So that means if you take what you think is the best ingredient and everyone says it's the best, and you take it pay attention week with something new into your body. And if after a couple of days or even that day, you start to have a headache. And you cannot figure out why all of a sudden, you know, I never get headaches and now I have a headache. I do not care how great that ingredient is. It's not balanced with your condition at that moment. And we really have to watch that the anatomy and then you start to become in charge of your own health. So I just wanted to say that super important.

Katie: 34:31

Yeah,

Amy: 34:31

yeah, we talked about that a lot on the show like really listening to your body and if someone is saying like oh, it's just this or it's just that don't worry about it. You're like no, I you need to. It's that mindfulness and that intense intentionality you have within yourself where I think a lot of people seem to be kind of chewed into that now, more so than before and I think people it seems like are asking their traditional doctor I was like, Well, what about this? Or what about this? You know? Because, yes, there's a lot more education out there. And there's a lot more people talking about, like attitude with the West, and

Dr. Janelle Kim: 35:11

even, you know, Western doctors, you know, yeah, you know, I don't know, I'm often on panels with, you know, Western Eastern. And I believe that any good doctor is just going to want the best for that patient, you know, and some of us, it's easier to get that advice than others. And that's, that is the way it is, you know, but in general, for sure. You see the world I, like I said, much different than 20 years ago, or maybe a little more when I first began and, you know, which harder path?

Amy: 35:38

Yeah, I hope that some of these more Western traditional doctors start getting into more, I mean, the good ones already do ask those questions that aren't outside of like, right, they're willing, because it really does make a difference. And they're looking at Mind Body Spirit, not just like

Dr. Janelle Kim: 35:58

the integrative cynics are a serious thing. I mean, it's happening, you know, and definitely, when you walk into certain Western medical doctors offices, you're definitely seeing doctors who are doing exactly that, you know, opening expanding their mind and recognizing, you know, these medicines have existed for 1000s of years. You know, it's so interesting when, because it yes, 1000s of years ago, they were not doing clinical studies. This is true. They did not put it down in that manner. But there's something to say, right? I mean, I think more and more people are seeing that now more than ever, especially after last couple of years, we've all walked through that there's something to say about these medicines that have worked on humans for literally 1000s of years. You know, so yes, there might not be this, what the Western Way, which is a very good way, don't get me wrong, having clinical studies, finding every single fact. But sometimes there's a little bit more to it. But that's holistic, also the way we look at everything. So there's three, absolutely. It's funny.

Amy: 36:54

Katie and I both had COVID Around the same time, and one of the things we both saw, I think was floating around Tiktok was, and I don't know if this is, well, I guess it's horrible, but it's different, like the oils. So it said, if you had no taste or snide, neither of us did to us. I think it was peppermint oil, and rose oil, rosemary, Rosemary oil every day in your nose and like she did it and it both worked.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:19

Stimulating to your tea. It makes everything function again. So it's an interesting thing.

Amy: 37:23

Right, exactly. Yeah. That was like, amazingly, yeah. And I

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:27

think a lot of writers world is seeing more and more options is, you know, there's certainly some negative aspects which we're not trying to go down this path of social media and how small our world is with technology. But it does certainly at the same time, there's that duality, that dichotomy, again, of the yin and yang, are certain ways now that through being closer through technology and the internet and social media that we're learning these you just have to fact check that a bit, you know, in fact, that's one of the things that my team certainly has to say, you know, Janelle, Dr. Kim, if you can speak on this, do you agree or not? That happens a lot, actually. For different things, trends that we see whether it's a trend, or it's real, yeah. So

Katie: 38:10

that's, yeah, and nothing. And parents do that. And, you know, I feel like, we could talk about some much of this for hours. And I would really, really love to have you back to talk in detail about acupuncture. Because I think that is such a vast topic, right. And I've, I've done it, and it's worked for me, and I know so many people that have helped. So we'll have to do that another time. But before we let you go, tell us just a little bit more about what Jay JBK wellness labs does. And also, do you have Is it a branded CBD luxury skincare

Dr. Janelle Kim: 38:43

JBK wellness Labs is not named after myself, which many people think is named after my great grandfather, those are his who was an incredible practitioner of herbal medicine, and acupuncture for that matter. And we are contracted manufacturers, which means we make the products behind the brands. And again, I kind of touched on that already. But you know, they're our clients are carried in your high end resorts and spas, to your whole foods to now actually they're having like prestige and luxury departments and target and Walgreens. And so it's an interesting way for exactly what we're talking about to be, you know, to be available for more people, which is kind of neat. So brands kind of spanning all industries. And so that's what we do in everything that we do is rooted in that understanding of herbal formulation, of formulation of products in general clean beauty, of course, you know, natural health products, of course. And so that's basically what JBK what we do, so we're not a brand, so we're behind brands. And so when you talk about the first ever Yes, I created the first ever CBD luxury skincare. I mean, basically I started the CBD industry myself in my lab with the people who started CBD back in. My first son was almost ready to be born so over 10 years ago now, which is a long time in the cannabinoid industry. And that's a whole other conversation to network. that I jumped into right away. But then another thing where I thought, you know, this is going to be something and I'd rather be educating about it properly. But I didn't really want to be like the queen of cannabis, you know, so, but an alternative. And so so not to go too far down that road. But that's so JBK we do a lot in the cannabinoid industry because we kind of helped to start it. So we were the first to make the sav muscle and joint role on so on and so forth. And all these, it's a beautiful thing, because every time someone comes to us to make formulas, it's always unique, it is truly the most amazing thing. So we, they come to us, oftentimes with an idea, they'll come to us with formulas that they kind of want us to improve upon, for example, or they'll come to us with a really important ingredient. I mean that and that's just to name a couple of examples. And then we formulate and then we produce the products. And that's the headquarters are in San Diego, right where I reside. Right now, we have a lab in Orange County. And actually, we have one in Portugal, in Europe for our European clients. So yes, and we just started actually, we're really excited about this, and I'm happy I'm remembering to share, because for over 20 years, I've been in this industry. And when you when I say contract manufacturing usually have to have higher minimums. So we don't have to get into all the details of it all. But in order to work with us, or to make custom products, you have to order a couple 1000 of one product at a time. And that's not easy for everyone. And this has been on my mind for a long time. And so over the last couple of years, and one of the things that, you know, during the pandemic, I don't always think of it this way. But it's the truth that we were able to create a JBK was a private label a white label division. And that means a lot to me, because what that means is more and more people are able to put their brand on some of our most favorite formulas that I've created over 20 years of my lab. And so, you know, that's kind of a big thing. And so I'm really excited about that. That's kind of a new thing that we've done in my lab. So

Katie: 41:54

congratulations

Amy: 41:55

for future when we come up and your bonuses, maybe the product.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:03

I want to create a formula to help women balance their, you know, emotions, balance their hormones, to have more energy, whatever that is. That's exactly how it starts. And people trust you and then that's how it goes. So

Amy: 42:15

I love that and what is your book called again? And where can people

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:18

you my book is called the young son, the Korean art of living meditation. It's kind of a long one. That's why I just remember Dr. Janelle Kim, living meditation, bright blue simpler. It's basically through Penguin, Random House and Watkins. And so you can find it on the Penguin Random house.com website on my website, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, basically, anywhere books are sold. So I'm very grateful that has come out, you know, just in January, so

Amy: 42:45

very excited. Thank you, Amy. Hi, congratulations. Okay, so getting into our wrap session before we close out. Janelle, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? I can. That's that's a hard one at my I do have so many.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 43:03

If I had to pick one right now, one of my favorites is remembering and understanding that true beauty does come from the inside out, you have to use very clean important products topically because it is our largest organ, our skin. But also we really have to pay attention to improving our condition internally, increasing our circulation, increasing our chi. And of course, to me, that means supplementing with herbal formulations. You know, being aware of my body knowing when to take certain ones. So I don't want to go too far. But yes, it's inside out which we're seeing much, much more in our beauty and wellness industry right now. So I'm so happy for that.

Amy: 43:41

Yeah. 100% Yeah, that's great. Okay, the next one, we call our five minute flow, which I guess could contribute to your CI. But here's the scenario. You just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber pings you and says they're five minutes away. So what is your quick beauty routine?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 44:00

That's funny, right? My locks up. I have one

Amy: 44:03

you just got out of the shower and dried off. And Uber just alerted you there five minutes away. So how do you you know, what's your quick beauty routine? What do you put on what are your kind of go to? And I'm shaking my head or that's every day forget?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 44:17

Yeah, that's called children. And podcasts Even my kids had to camp at 9am which is exactly when we were supposed to be on so that was literally my morning. So I do I get ready in five minutes. And that's just the truth today. We're lucky I put a little eyeshadow for you ladies to look, you know, all dressed up. But the i Everyday I use my herbal toner. It is one of the most important products I think I mean, again, that's so hard. I have the whole I'm Korean beauty right so I have the whole every step. But I always use a toner in the morning if I don't work out rather than just washing my face. There's no alcohol, it's all herbs. So it's just basically, you know, cleansing with a cotton pad, but at the same time all those good herbs onto my skin. So that's what I start with. And then honestly, I like a little concealer because it just makes me look a little brighter and a little natural blush. And I go on with my day. Like literally that's that

Amy: 45:11

and are these all brands that you make in the lab so it's not like a brand skincare for sure. Probably

Dr. Janelle Kim: 45:17

another one I love it's my later again, that's the I keep making a joke. It's the Korean beauty that is a Korean beauty hack and I very much stand by exfoliation is key. And so those are all products that I create my bathroom looks like a lab literally I have a little bottles everywhere. But as far as makeup, we we keep wanting to go down a direction are a little bit too busy. So I do I go for brands out there and the ones that I like, right now. I like RMS beauty. So very clean. I find that you know I don't like to reapply like don't look at myself in the mirror throughout the day because I figured what what in the world can I do anyways? This is how I

Amy: 45:55

layer your skin's unbelievable so

Dr. Janelle Kim: 45:59

yeah, like a little blush just because I'm all skin tone. And that's about it. So and then maybe a little lip gloss. Some

Amy: 46:05

love that. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily your bond I

Dr. Janelle Kim: 46:09

love by the way, that that is what you call your entire platform on everything that you do. And so how to maintain that is through living meditation. I mean, we're totally on the same page living meditation is the ultimate goal of reaching that state of Nirvana that state of honestly balanced, we started this way and I suppose well, and this way that you know, everything comes from the doubt and for those who are not familiar with the Dow, I suggest that you become familiar in some way because it is a really powerful and was people love it. And it really is just the universe, right? And the universe is everything and nothing. It is literally that Enzo circle which is on my logo. It's that like kind of brushstroke and that's to me, also is nirvana. Right. So to that state of from nothing comes everything and from everything comes nothing. And so I am able to constantly keep purifying myself creating good habits, having a self discipline through living meditation, which is why I put it in the book.

Katie: 47:05

That's beautiful. I just want to say before we hand the mantra over to Amy that you can just you really exude Janelle such kind of peace and joy and you're glowing from the inside out. So you are living proof of everything that you can say. So we're really grateful for having you on. Thank you so much for for being here with us today. And I think our listeners are gonna love everything you taught us and, and really, I would love to have you back and we can dive into it. I'm

Dr. Janelle Kim: 47:32

really grateful to be here. It was a wonderful conversation. I would absolutely love to come back. So I hope that was helpful. That's for sure.

Katie: 47:39

Was Thank you. All right, Amy. What's our mantra we'd like to close with a little something to end on.

Amy: 47:46

Yeah, so I don't know if this is a mantra or saying something I found on Jay Shetty, Instagram, but it's very appropriate to what we were talking about specially we were talking about being drunk on your thoughts, which kind of stuck with me. So here it is. If you want to be happy, don't take stuff personal. Let stuff go. Let people be focused on you. Your mental health, your spiritual health, your well being physically and financially.

Katie: 48:11

I agree. Yeah, yeah. All of the above agreed, right.

Amy: 48:15

So thank you so much. Thank

Katie: 48:19

you.

Amy: 48:20

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 60 - The Dirty Skincare Secret We Bet You Didn’t Know About With Liz Whitman, CEO And Founder Of Exponent Beauty (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 60 - The Dirty Skincare Secret We Bet You Didn’t Know About With Liz Whitman, CEO And Founder Of Exponent Beauty

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters, Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And we are back and very excited to meet Liz Whitman, who is the CEO and founder of exponent beauty. This is the first of its kind, self activated and sustainable skincare solution. And we're super excited to hear all about this innovative brands product, and it's hot off the press, because it just launched in April. So we are so excited to meet you. Welcome to the show, Liz.

Liz Whitman: 0:58

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Liz is an entrepreneur, she's

Amy: 1:02

launched many brands, and she's really carved a space in the industry. So we're super excited to hear more about all of your extensive background in beauty and wellness and self care right up our alley. But before we do that, we want to just take a step back and do our nirvana of the week, which is really just a moment that brought you joy this week. We just like take a step back. Before we get there. I will lead to Katie to see to hear about your nirvana. Great. Thank

Katie: 1:28

you, Amy. I think my Nirvana this week was, was it yesterday or the day before I took my four year old to the beach. She's been out of school all week, and my eight year old is still in school. And you know, like she's doing camps and everything that summer. But this week, she's home and we've just had some really nice time together. And we went to the beach, the two of us we build sand castles and collected shells and had a little picnic. And it was really fun. It was so sweet. So that was that was mine for sure. What about you, Amy? Super fun.

Amy: 1:58

Well, mine I would say was this morning, because I think I've mentioned this on the podcast before when we had our dermatologist on, but I have gotten like many basal cells over the years, I have really sensitive and I guess prone skin to basal cells. So I do a skin scan every six months. And I was just posting on our Instagram channel this morning that everyone should go every year to get a skin scan. But I go every six months. And I had a good report this morning. So that's just always exciting to like, you know, go through the skin scan, I have to make sure everything looks good and like not have to worry. So that was my good news of the day. So I was very happy to have good skin, which I'm sure you know all about Liz, what about you?

Liz Whitman: 2:36

That's huge. And I just want to double click and say that I do agree that people should go get checked often. And most people don't think about it. So that's awesome. And I had an awesome week and unusually awesome. Because we had our team off site in San Francisco, for exponent, all of us work remotely and with the pandemic and being a small team. And we're sort of spread out and so to be in person and have that kind of energy in person. It's just It's so fulfilling. And then I had the best time. I love that.

Katie: 3:10

Yeah, that's fun. I'm sure it's great to have everybody together in the same room. Bouncing views. Yes. Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

Liz Whitman: 3:18

In the early days, particularly when you're small, there's like a tribalism that like kind of happens as you all kind of come together. You know, you don't have that many people. And so you have to be rowing the boat all in unison. And it's tough to do and build those types of relationships remotely, I'm

Katie: 3:32

sure. I'm sure. All right, well, and

Amy: 3:35

you just get so much so much. So much done being together and bonding and communicating so many good ideas that came out of that, right?

Liz Whitman: 3:43

Totally. Yeah, it's too many. So now we have to prioritize which ones we're gonna do.

Amy: 3:50

That's nice. So tell us about exponent beauty and like what gap you are seeing in the market to come up with this really cool idea?

Liz Whitman: 3:58

Yeah, absolutely. And I don't even know if I would characterize it as a gap and more so as kind of a dirty skincare secret. And in the industry. I had been in the industry for about 15 years I and it's well known that antioxidants, which are the active ingredients that you often find in clinical skincare ingredients like vitamin C and retinol, the good for you stuff that we all seek out, are super fragile, when exposed to air, light and water. And the industry has worked really hard to stabilize those ingredients. And but I had this kind of hunch after using a lot of products that were kind of over promising but not delivering that there was sort of something not quite meshing in terms of the way these things were formulated. And so I ended up actually testing the top 25 Selling clinical skincare products on the market products that you have absolutely heard of probably us might be using right now I don't know, and sent them to an independent lab to test the concentration of the actives On day one through day 60. So from the moment the consumer takes the product home, what's actually happening on the day to day as you're using it. And the headline is that those products lost about 40% of their active ingredient concentration in a mere eight weeks. So stability is not an unknown thing. I think what was shocking for me, and perhaps more importantly, for my chemist, and my product developer, was the order of magnitude, right? That it lost so much so quickly. And so exponent really exists to fix this issue, right, which is to deliver active ingredients, the way that they're really meant to be delivered, right? Which is fresh, and potency every time.

Katie: 5:44

That's so brilliant, because so is it when you are you saying like when you bring the product home, and you take the lid off of it? Is that is that like, is it kind of similar to food, right? When we bring the food home food? It's the same idea, the expiration date kind of starts ticking from that point.

Liz Whitman: 6:01

Absolutely. I mean, in fact, the expiration date starts ticking from the moment it's manufactured, bottled up, goes through the supply chain, let's call it 18 months until you buy it, bring it home, then you open it and you kick off and even more rapid path of degradation.

Amy: 6:18

Did you see when you first like when you first opened it? I know you said over eight weeks, it was like 40% Last or whatever? What was it roughly when you first opened it? Since I have to go through that whole process? Like totally. So

Liz Whitman: 6:30

as you know, some products will state the concentration that they put in some don't. Right. And so of the ones who stated we were able to measure what that initial concentration was. And that was about 15% lower than what they stated.

Amy: 6:43

Now, why they say on like a vitamin C to keep it in a cool dark place.

Liz Whitman: 6:50

Probably yeah, exactly. I mean, the reality is, you could put your skincare in the fridge, and that will actually like slow down that degradation pack. It won't eradicate it though, right? Other ways that people have tried to slow it down, putting it in an airless pump, putting it in an amber jar, to protect from UV light. And, you know, combining certain molecules, so compounding vitamin C with Vitamin E or freundlich, in order to try to stabilize it. We tested all products that use those methods. And those methods again, help, but they don't eradicate the issue.

Katie: 7:28

And I would also imagine that there's a lot of products that use stabilizers, which maybe isn't necessarily part of clean beauty, right? Like I mean, you see that in so many things, it's that there's preservatives and foods or stabilizers and medication. Do you find those in beauty products as well?

Liz Whitman: 7:44

You do you do? And again, those will have it beyond the actual clean beauty issue with that right in terms of the stability, they will help but again, will not eradicate basically, as soon as it's premiere with water. Boom, that's where it all kicks off.

Amy: 8:00

Wow, wow. And what are the main I know you mentioned vitamin C, and how many ingredients are there that are this, for lack of a better word like perishable that we need to know about?

Liz Whitman: 8:10

Yeah, so anything that's an antioxidant, will be in that category, which is a lot of things. Um, so long list, long list, the hero ingredients that you would normally find in skincare that would suffer from this and is vitamin C. Retinol, which obviously hugely popular anti aging ingredient, and resveratrol, green tea, enzymes, probiotics, Vitamin K, Vitamin E to a degree, and then a bunch of acids as well. And which is a totally separate kind of world from from the exponent world. But acids as well would be fragile. What your your glomming on to, I think the best way to think about it, which is like, you know, we've all sort of come to the conclusion that fresh food is better for you, it tastes better, it's got more nutrients, etc. And so beauty I sort of tend to think lags the food industry by about 10 years, you saw that with natural and organic as well as a trend, right? And we're sort of living in that world right now in beauty, where people are really concerned about what ingredients are in their products, are they particularly unsafe? And I think what we're trying to do is, you know, transition that conversation, not just from, you know, what is in there that is potentially harmful. But what is in there that's truly truly beneficial. Sort of like the super food SAE kind of like status state of the food industry. We want that to be the focus within beauty.

Amy: 9:40

Yeah, that's really interesting, because you're right, the industry is behind and I don't think I've really thought about them that much. And I would imagine our listeners and most consumers are not thinking about it, they see like, whatever on the label 10% 20% They're like, great, you're not really, you know, thinking about it until you finish it and I don't know that's that's actually I'm very, very interesting. So hence x amount of beauty. So tell us what you've created to

Liz Whitman: 10:09

totally. And it's an it's been a labor of love. We've been in r&d for about three years, because this isn't an easy problem to solve, right. And, and so our solution is self activated skincare, whereby we've actually powderized all the active ingredients, all the antioxidants that we just talked about, in powder form, we've kept them in or unstable, right, so they are maintaining their concentration indefinitely until you activate them. And so our system allows you to activate an active ingredient with hyaluronic acid serum, which is very, very hydrating in the moment, and, and so the powderized form factor is kind of what allows us to stabilize everything. Um, but the experience is really the critical part, because no one's going to mortar and pestle a bunch of powder in their bathrooms lying around a whole big mess. So we spent a lot of time creating our packaging solution, which is our activator system, you can think of that as sort of the world's sexiest dispenser. It is a precision dosing system. So essentially, with a simple push twist, you dispense a precise amount of powder, and a precise amount of liquid in the proper ratio for a single dose and to apply clinical benefits to this game.

Katie: 11:31

It's really beautiful. You pour it in.

Liz Whitman: 11:34

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, we also thought, you know, besides functional benefits, we wanted to make it really attractive and counter were they so?

Amy: 11:43

Yeah, for sure. That's always important. So you, you put it in this device, mix it and then use it. So it's just like a fresh dose in a way sort of like when you go to a spa and they mix it right there is that the ACS kind of Yeah,

Liz Whitman: 11:56

yeah, definitely. And just to clarify, it's, you don't have to add anything to it each time. So you, you get 45 doses of powder, 90 doses of liquid, and you load it up once and then each time that you come to it to use it, you're just doing a push twist, you're dispensing from a bulk each time. So there's no like, it's not like Nespresso on it. Like that. Yeah.

Katie: 12:21

Yeah, that's genius.

Amy: 12:22

Cool. So what is really cool, what are

Katie: 12:25

some of the different types of powders? Just I'm sure how many do you have?

Liz Whitman: 12:30

Yes, so we have five. And so these are five serums. And so a serum is sort of the first layer you want to put on clean, damp skin, underneath and SPF for moisturizer. Each one of our serums has, you know, major anti aging benefits. So they have all been clinically tested to reduce fine lines and wrinkles. And then each one has an additional benefit on top of that. So first in the lineup is our newest product, which is our Time Rewind retinol, retinol at 0.25% in every dose since we can do an optimal dose. And so that's going to give great benefit for fine lines and wrinkles and Retexturizing the skin add the next step is our brightening boost vitamin C product and so this delivers 10% l ascorbic acid in every single dose. In addition to fine lines and wrinkles, it's been clinically proven to help with discoloration, brightening and radiants benefits. And third is our firming filter co q 10. Antioxidant. cokie 10 is an ingredient that's super popular in supplements and is used less frequently in skincare, even though it's got fantastic benefits. So we're really excited about this one. And it will help with fine lines and wrinkles but also have a firming effect on top of it. Then we have comme revival, green tea and resveratrol. So both green tea and resveratrol blend, and this is awesome and potentially the one that Amy should get because it's great for sensitive skin. So in addition to fine lines and wrinkles, benefits and it'll also have a redness reduction. So those ingredients are both anti inflammatory as well as an anti aging which is awesome. And then finally we have clear comeback enzymes and probiotics. And so this will actually help the clog pores and reduce blemishes.

Amy: 14:29

Wow. So how would so how would someone use the products like what would they use every day? What would they use? Like what's the Yeah How are people using the different products and for what I mean not for what but like in what in the am the pm etc?

Liz Whitman: 14:43

Yeah, so we have a couple of like natural combinations I would say and for am and pm routines. And I should note that the activator system is completely mix and match. So actually about half of our gamers have more than one powder that they're using. As an interchangeable top with a hyaluronic acid base, so a great pairing for anti aging benefits would be the vitamin C in the morning and retinol at night. A great caring for sensitive skin types would be calm revival green tea in the morning, and firming filter co q 10. That night. And, and then of course, our probiotic and enzymes is just a great treatment for folks who are worried about the clogging pores or blemishes. And we have people who use that twice a day, if that's their main concern. And I also use it sort of on an occasional basis when I'm traveling in drier climates, and and I'm just getting clogged and I'll use it for about a week and swap it into my routine. And but all of our products can be used interchangeably. The only one that I would sort of suggest really needs to be only used at night is retinol. And then we do suggest using vitamin C in the morning only because it gives you the additional benefit protecting against free radicals throughout the day. So if you use it at night, you'd still get great benefit from it, you're just not getting that protective benefit during the day.

Katie: 16:11

Okay, and what is the vitamin C test kit that I saw that you you have is that something that's coming out, or it's currently available?

Liz Whitman: 16:19

That's currently available. So I mentioned that this has been this three year journey. And in terms of grading these products, and I mentioned the primary research that we had done, you know, in the early days to verify the problem. So in the lead up to launching the products we actually published and a research hub called the exponent standard. And we took all of our primary research, we did a lot of lab work and published it there. And consumers were coming and you know, engaging with our content, and then writing in and asking lots of questions like, if these products degrade, what should I be using. And this was an advance of us having a product to recommend. So we then ended up actually creating some tools to help consumers find effective skincare. So this is truly separate from the product line, just very objective research had to help people find the best products out there. And those tools include a product recommendation list of the 82 out of 500 products that we researched and looked at that meet our standards for efficacy. And I'm happy to tell you what that is. And then the second tool we launched is vitamin C test kit. And so these are test strips that you can use at home to test the concentration of vitamin C in your skincare products, whatever you're using. And so that'll help you figure out okay, is it at a starting concentration that's doing anything for me? Is it still good after a couple of months or whatnot else. And it's just a self serve tool at home, it does have a QR code. So folks have been uploading their results to us, which is awesome, because we use that data to actually add or remove products that we recommend from our product recommendations list.

Katie: 18:05

That's so cool. And it's also really generous of you to provide that for, for the consumer to be able to get this information for themselves. But I would imagine that it's going to reveal to them that their products aren't as powerful as they thought. And so the next move is they'll come to you and be ordering more of your powders and everything. So it's really genius. It's, it's a great idea. And it's also probably really surprising for a lot of people to find out what exactly they have in their arsenal. It's not everything they thought it was hacked up today,

Amy: 18:38

I was just gonna ask the question, because you're mentioning the results. So what are people seeing, like the before and afters of the results they're seeing based on like using their old products? And then switching over and kind of tell us about that a little bit.

Liz Whitman: 18:50

Yeah, absolutely. So and what's been great about the kind of UGC that we're getting on before and afters from our products, is that our timeframe for actually seeing results and seems to be like pretty quick for skincare. I mean, typically with skincare, you're looking at like eight weeks to see results. And a lot of our products after two weeks, you have visible results. So people are, I think just really excited to be able to see something, how many times we'll be at, you know, these products, and we're expecting these miraculous results and we're trying to look but it's like imperceptible, etc. And so that's been amazing. And of course, as I said we did clinical studies on these products to begin with to make sure that they actually will deliver results. So I'm seeing that. And then other vitamin C testers folks who've tested other people's products over the last couple of years. And absolutely, we've just been so excited to see how they're reacting to ours. I will say though, Katie Yeah, I mean it does, it does open their eyes. But on our product recommendations list, there are a few other vitamin C products out there that we do recommend as well from other brands and we Don't get any, you know, affiliate fees or anything. So you fully shoppable go check it out. Thanks. That's good. Yeah, that's good.

Amy: 20:09

All right. The transparency. Yeah. Right. Yes.

Katie: 20:11

Genius. So and then the company also focuses there's a focus very much on full of versus free of, and thus, I couldn't really greatly appreciate because so much now you it's all about clean beauties free of the parabens, this and that, and this and that. And that's very heavily advertised, which is great. Thank I mean, thank goodness for that. But exponent beauty is focusing on what you're full of, which I assume is just powerful punch of everything that we're buying the stuff on the first place, right.

Liz Whitman: 20:40

Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I explained the exponent standard, and the research hub, like our entire mission is just to educate consumers on and raise the standard for effective skincare. So free of the clean beauty movement. I am super, super supportive of that, obviously, we should expect that our products don't cause harm. It's just to me, that's only half the equation, right? The other side of that is great, okay, there's nothing harmful in here. But what's actually in here that I can expect benefit from, right? And how do we create some measurement around that? And when I look at the industry, there's just so many certifications of that stand for the absence of things free, that's free of that. And I just keep questioning why is there not a standard for, you know, efficacy, right? This is, what is clinical stinker. It's an ill defined term, right? Like, how are we measuring these benefits. And one of the big things that I get, you know, particularly frustrated on is the use of clinical results. So I mentioned that our products have been clinically tested a number of times, there's actually a really big difference between clinical testing, which uses instrumentation to measure actual benefits and consumer perception testing. And in our category, in both cases, that takes place in a lab setting. So brands can quote consumer perception testing as if it's a clinical results when it's not. Anyway, longer story, but part of the exponent standard is is sorting through those 500 products that I mentioned, calling it down to add to all a few those products have been properly clinically tested and to show benefit.

Katie: 22:21

Amazing. I want to know what your skincare routine is because you have gorgeous skincare skin rather, literally. So what do you do? Yeah,

Liz Whitman: 22:34

I do try to keep it relatively simple. I do not have a 10 step routine by any means. And I think fewer better products for everyone would be would be a nice move. So in the morning, I actually don't wash my face because I've washed my face at night and I use a micellar water and or toner I just like splash it on. So that's step one. Step two, I use one of our exponents serums typically I use calm revival in the morning because I have sensitive skin and a bit of rosacea. And then I put on an SPF on top. And everyone should be wearing SPF every day. I don't care if you're only outside for five minutes, please please please.

Amy: 23:18

And if it's cloudy, that doesn't mean anything. Please.

Liz Whitman: 23:23

And then I put an SPF on top. And then at night I cleanse and I do we're you know some makeup light during the day and so definitely need an oil cleanser to kind of get it all off. At night at I use a different exponent serum. So co q 10. The firming filter one at night. And then I put a light moisturizer on top just because I like the feel and I kind of want to trap everything in. And then once a week I exfoliate. And I use a sort of grainy exfoliation. Yeah.

Amy: 23:57

Yeah, what SPF do you use?

Liz Whitman: 23:59

When I use questions? Yeah, so So my favorite brand is Elta. MD and so I use their SPF which is 46. And it's amazing product. I don't know if you're familiar with it. Every dermatologist friend and

Amy: 24:14

colleague that I have had a dermatologist on the show who recommended it. Yeah, it's amazing. And it's like the gold standard.

Liz Whitman: 24:22

Yeah, they have a clear one and they have a tinted one. And this is the craziest thing about the tinted one. So hard to get a universal tint and but like girlfriends of mine across the Fitzpatrick scale in terms of skin tone, we can all use it and it looks amazing. It's very light. And so particularly when I'm in a rush, I just put that on and it gives us a little bit of sort of not retouching effect. It's not like wearing foundation but just kind of smooths everything out.

Amy: 24:53

Right smooths everything out. Yeah. One of the other things I noticed on your website, which is really impressive is that you're a B Corp. which I know is really hard to get that certification. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that? Because I think that's very important nowadays.

Liz Whitman: 25:08

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, benefit corporation, otherwise known as B Corp, and is a type of corporate status in the US where you have to actually go through a very rigorous certification process. And basically, they're looking to see if you meet the highest verified standards of environmental and social transparency and accountability in your business practices. That sounds very, very technical, I like to think of it as companies that really want to structure themselves around this concept of a triple bottom line, right. And so obviously, we're a for profit company. So we're thinking about making profits. So that's thing one, but we're also thinking about impact on planet and people. Right. And so that's, that's our triple bottom line focus, it took us about a year and a half. And to get B Corp certified, we were certified even prior to launch, which is somewhat unheard of, it was very important to me personally, I've done a lot of work with B corpse in the past. And so I knew that that was something that we wanted to do. And the way that we got verified is because our packaging has actually eliminated plastic waste. So we didn't talk about it. But the activator is fully refillable, or refills, cutting glass jars with aluminum caps, which are the only infinitely recyclable materials out there. And the activator itself is a system that gets reused again and again. So I am super, super proud of this. And I think what I was kind of surprised about to be honest, is I knew it was important to us and to me to do this the right way. And I didn't know how much it would resonate with consumers, right. And I'm not sure if we're like really voting with our wallets on sustainability in the beauty category at this point. And it's been really wonderful to see how people have glommed on to it, how they're respecting it, how they're commenting on it bodes well for all of us and for the for the future of the planet as well.

Amy: 27:10

Yeah, it's definitely, I think, especially to the younger generation, they're very aware what I've seen very aware of companies that are in this space, truly, and it does make a difference to them, which I love. And there is so much waste and beauty. So congratulations on that. It's really good to see. Thank you.

Katie: 27:31

Now, you're also a mentor and an investor in a lot of like young startups in the beauty space, which that has to be exciting. What are some? Are you seeing a lot of very, like innovative products and cutting edge things that are, you know, on the horizon that we should get excited about?

Liz Whitman: 27:49

Yeah, I love being an investor in the space, I do seed stage investing as part of X Factor ventures, and we're small seed fund focused on female founded businesses. And I do look at a lot of consumer and naturally a lot of beauty. And, and there are there are some very exciting things happening. I think, you know, first and foremost, folks are thinking about creating brands and product lines for specific consumer groups, and particularly underserved consumer groups and making sure that we're having a much more personalized kind of consumer and brand match. And I think that's really, really exciting, particularly in the realm of color cosmetics, making sure that we have, you know, a range of tones to suit every person's needs, and I think is critical. And we're seeing some really interesting things happening in the clinical skincare space in terms of biotech, starting to spin out new technologies, and for again, benefits in skincare, which of course, I'm excited about that part of the skincare world. And then we're seeing some really cool new innovations on the packaging front as well. So similar to my my enthusiasm for my own B Corp status. And there are some really interesting sustainable packaging companies that are coming out to really help the beauty industry start to clean up its act. It's really hard, you can't find stock packaging that's like actually sustainable. And so new materials innovations happening and playing with, you know, sort of soy based bamboo based kind of materials that could actually be used in our category. And I'm obviously personally really excited about that. Because if that comes out, and it's really like accessible and inexpensive. I think more and more brands will obviously choose to do the right thing. Yeah,

Amy: 29:42

that's great. Well, two questions. Firstly, I mean, it sounds like you know, you just launched in the brands doing well tell us about how their response has been and like how the ramp up has been, what you're seeing so far and then also what advice you have for female entrepreneurs listening to this that are just getting started and For example, when I create a product, yeah,

Liz Whitman: 30:02

yeah, absolutely. And the launch has gone super well, I'm so thrilled. And we've kind of exceeded our expectations. And I think some of the things that I started to kind of nod to earlier that surprised me, but in a good way, like I said, the sustainable messaging and seems to be resonating. It never really was something we didn't do it as like a marketing ploy. Right? We did it because we just wanted to do it. Right, it actually means something to you, which is Yeah, and the fact that it means something other people too, is just really, really awesome to see. And I think the other thing I've been surprised but pleasantly surprised about and is folks understanding this idea that it's a system, right and that it's got this mix and match capability. And because like I said, with my skincare routine, I tried to keep it to fewer better things. And so there's real value if people know that they can actually tailor their aim and their PM. And it's kind of like having three products in one, right, you've got the hydrator and then your two actives. And that's been really, really awesome, too. And then finally, we've gotten a lot of interest from dermatologists, Esthetician ones, and retailers and pretty early on, which is very cool. So that kind of opens up new, a new lens for how we want to think about growth and down the road. And advice for female entrepreneurs, I get asked this question, a decent man, this is now my third startup. So that makes me a masochist. But that's something we can talk about over grade one. So I've done this a number of times. And you know, one thing I would say is just like, make sure that you are really committed to wanting to do this for a decade, right. And it is not as glamorous as sometimes the press makes it seem there. It's a lot of hard work. I mean, the two of you know that, right? And, and and it's really got to make sense for you, as a personality, in terms of your lifestyle, and everything else. In terms of vetting an idea. My advice always is like, the best businesses are solutions to extremely acute problems, right? They're not nice to have, I would really think of it that way. Like your solution needs to be a painkiller, not a vitamin, right? And if that is true, then I mean, you know, world's your oyster, it means you're actually solving a real pain point for people. And then the third thing I would say, and this is hard, right? And is really, really make like friends and family and colleagues and network connections, feel very comfortable giving you real feedback on your idea, right? Like, go out of your way, like read up on consumer focus groups, and how to run them and how to ask questions without leading the witness, create an environment where you're like, tell me all the reasons why I shouldn't do this. Like that's a different way to phrase it, right? Because otherwise you end up in kind of an echo chamber, right? Where everyone's like, Oh, that's a great idea. No one wants to hurt your feelings. It's your baby, you know, and but you're just not gonna get better if you're not open to that.

Amy: 33:17

Yeah, so that's, that's great advice.

Katie: 33:19

All of it is yeah, I the product piece of filling a hole if it's a painkiller, not a vitamin is really like such a genius way to think about it. Because fixing a pain for some, that's what's going to really explode. Right is when it's really, really, really needed. So that's all such great advice. Thank you.

Amy: 33:43

So tell us how to find exponent beauty. Is it? I know you mentioned you're looking at retail and all these other areas? Is it? Is it just online? Is it? What's the what's the plan? Yep,

Liz Whitman: 33:54

right now, we are just online at exponent beauty.com. And so you can find the full line of five serums there. And in our research section on site is where you can find our product recommendations list for the exponent standard if you're looking to fill out your routine, so I would encourage you to check that out too. And then as I mentioned, of course, looking at the professional channel, so dermatologists esthetician offices, so we may be there sooner than you expect. So if you have your favorite you can ask them about us and see if we're there and and reach out down the road but for now, exponent beauty.com

Amy: 34:34

Also, I cannot wait to try it.

Katie: 34:36

Yeah, and your website has great how to like you know when to use retinol, what time of day and things like that. It's a really useful tool, the website in addition to have all of your amazing products so we are super excited.

Liz Whitman: 34:51

Yeah, I mean, again, for me my motivation obviously first and foremost is just to help people find effective skincare right at Otherwise, why would we publish all of this useful information, all of these product recommendations list and, you know, I hope a fraction of folks will fall in love with us too, but and our product line. So yeah, please do use it as a resource. And that's what we're there for. You can also always contact our customer delight team. Believe it or not, sometimes I get in there on some of the gnarly ingredients, questions and product recommendations questions. We're always happy to do a consult as well.

Amy: 35:27

That's great to know. Okay, we're gonna get into our rap session, which is a star quick hit questions. Don't think about I'm just answer ready. Here's the first one. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Liz Whitman: 35:39

Drinking water.

Amy: 35:43

Good one.

Katie: 35:45

And accessible to all.

Amy: 35:47

Exactly. Very important. That's great. Okay, the next one we call our five minute flower. So you just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you. They're five minutes away. So what is your quick beauty routine? Like what do you put on what are your go to Holy Grails to get in the car and get out the door? And I know you talked about your skincare a little bit. But if you're you know, going out for the night, let's say what's your what's your quick get ready routine?

Liz Whitman: 36:12

Oh, you changed it up. But that nighttime question now I'm like trying to think about

Amy: 36:17

it. Or let's say a daytime brunch.

Liz Whitman: 36:21

Yeah, okay, daytime brunch. Alright, I jumped out of the shower, I put my hair in a microfiber towel, which dries it really really fast. While I put on my serum, and then my Elta tinted SPF, I don't have time to put on anything else. So that's just going to be my coverage. I would try to get some mascara in there if I could. And based on the timing to run out the door, hair dry brush brush, and then in sort of a top bun, which I'm going to hope is going to dry on its way to the brunch, and then I will let it out. Lived in and organic waves.

Katie: 37:00

Love it. Perfect. Alright, and the last one we want to know is how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Liz Whitman: 37:09

You know, I think I need to get better at maintaining my daily nirvana. It's like a conscious practice to make sure that I'm trying to take stock of kind of what went well, what can I improve on? What am I grateful for? And and I don't do it every day, and I should. And I really admire people who do

Amy: 37:30

it. Yeah, it's definitely hard, especially, you know, busy entrepreneur or running, you know, launching a brand, I'm sure. But yes, we always, we always try to just tell people take a step back for five minutes and breathe. You know, it's just something to like, make sure you're not burning out. We actually just did an episode a couple weeks ago, that launched about the vagus nerve and keeping within the window of your vagal tone. So every ever since I heard that I was like, gotta make sure you're in that window or else you burn out. But that's great. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. So we will end with our mantra which we'd like to do at the end of every show to set the tone and say goodbye to our listeners. Katie, what do you have for us?

Katie: 38:12

So this week, and just to reiterate, I've said this recently, some are mantras, some are reminders, some are just little affirmations. This one is difficult roads often lead to beautiful destinations. And I think oh, what it sounds like Liz your road to creating excellent beauty has not been an easy one. And you guys have rocked it and the brand is here and we are so excited praise. Thank you for being with us today.

Liz Whitman: 38:40

Thank you for that. That's really wonderful. I'm going to take that one with me and repeat it at the end of the day. That'll be my first attempt at practicing my daily nirvana. So thank you. Thank you.

Amy: 38:55

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 59 - The Power Of Being Polished With Glosslab Founder, Rachel Glass (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 59 - The Power Of Being Polished With Glosslab Founder, Rachel Glass

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome to Nirvana sisters Nirvana sisters family, we are back. It's Amy and Katie. And this week's episode is about a self care ritual, which I think is probably one of the most relatable things we've talked about so far. Because most of you probably do this or I hope you do. But this ritual is an easy way to help us feel confident, like I said before, very relatable. And what is it nails we're talking about? One of my favorite subjects is Katy nose. And we are here with Rachel Glass, the founder of Glosslab, and we're so excited to hear her take on nails and self care. And welcome to the show. Rachel are so excited to have you.

Rachel: 1:09

Thank you so much for having me. I'm having a

Amy: 1:11

Katie and I have both been frequenting our Glosslabs in our areas. So we love it so much. But um, before we get into it, let's take a step back from our week and talk about our weekly nirvana. So this is just like something that brought us joy this week, something that brought us happiness Big or small, just to kind of like, take a step back. So Katie, why don't you start?

Katie: 1:30

Yeah, thanks, Amy. I wouldn't mind like hands down was yesterday, my four year old graduated pre K. And it was just the cutest thing. They had the sweetest ceremony. It was like way more produced and done than I was expecting at all. It was very sweet. The kids saying like 10 songs. And they had, they had like a proper ceremony where they called each child up and gave them a special necklace. And everyone clapped for each time. It was just it was it was so cute. It was great. So I'm very excited for Reese.

Amy: 2:02

Were you crying

Katie: 2:03

a couple times? Yeah. I wasn't like as hyper emotionalism as some of the parents were. But I think I probably will be when I send her to kindergarten next year. Yeah, it was great. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:15

That's a sweet. Well, my kids just finished school too. I have two boys, Rachel and one just finished ninth grade in high school. And the younger one just finished sixth grade in middle school. So yesterday was their like, official last day. So we went out to dinner last night at a really nice restaurant, and celebrated the end of school and all their successes and you know, just congratulated them for working hard and all of that. It was just like a nice to be together. We've all been running around the last couple of weeks and of schools always crazy. So just nice to sit together like us for and celebrate and spend time together. So that was definitely my Nirvana this week. What about you, Rachel?

Unknown: 2:50

I am I have two girls. They are seven and nine. And they are not done with school yet. But I feel like I've had I've gotten to spend a lot of time with them. This week, parents were allowed back in the classroom to see sort of their end of year stuff for the first two years. So that was just really nice, special time with them and seeing them inside school, which I haven't done in a very long time. Yeah,

Amy: 3:13

that's, that's okay. Are you are you based in New York?

Unknown: 3:15

I'm based in New York. Okay,

Amy: 3:17

awesome. Hey. Awesome. Well, let's get into it. So tell us all about GlossLab and like what gap you're seeing in the market when you create it?

Unknown: 3:26

Yeah, for sure. So I My background is in finance. I worked in finance for 10 years at a business school. And I always felt like a manicure was part of my routine. I really thought of it like an errand like getting your shoes shined. And I felt that there was no brand in the nail salon space. So there were a lot of a lot of mom and pops. There was high end spa, but nothing that was really branded, accessible, unknown entity. So I did a lot of research on the space. I really focused on hygiene, because I found that if that was something that was really easily compromised at nail salons, and waterless I did a lot of research and waters basically, any way you spin it is a breeding ground for germs and bacteria, especially with pedicures. So when I started gloss lab and this was pre COVID. I should also say that I'm a lifelong germaphobe. So the ethos of gloss lab, pre dado was really hygiene focused. And I think that obviously means so much more today in this world that we're living in, but especially around nail care. Our tools look like your tools at the dentist or doctor office. Everything is sterilized in an autoclave machine. Our services are completely waterless. And then we're really focused on efficiency. So I think of a manicure as something that it's it's a great sort of, I don't even I'd like to say treat for yourself, I really think of it like an errand like you go to the gym, you go manicure. But how do we make that as efficient as possible. So a really fun experience while you're at GlossLab. But we love to get you in and out and back to your day. So to make that happen, we have same time manicure pedicure, you can get both at the same time. And then we have a membership model. So since day one, we have a membership model, which is unlimited manicures and pedicures for about $115 a month. And that, again, is really focused on efficiency. So how do we make this that you're not stopping to pay each time you come in, this is really part of your routine, you can get as many manicures and pedicures per month as you want to. And I I would say above all of that above the function is, I believe a manicure is really empowering. Like when I have a manicure, I feel like I'm fully dressed, I can take on my day I can I just feel good about myself. And I think in this small way with feeling polished, you can kind of take on the world. And I think that's really what I believe in for GlossLab.

Katie: 6:12

I love that. Yeah, I

Amy: 6:13

totally agree that for the

Katie: 6:14

the listener that maybe hasn't been to Manhattan, there are nail salons everywhere. But you can walk into any different salon and have an entirely different experience. And you never have any idea of how of the hygiene level and how efficient it's going to be, etc. to brand. A nail salon I think is just ingenious, because you know, you're getting every time you come in. And that's I mean, that's absolutely like one of the things that I love the most about about GlossLab. Another efficient thing that you offer is the times you are it's the earliest opening up and so on that I've ever seen you offer as early as 8am. Is that right?

Unknown: 6:53

Yes. So we open at eight and we close at eight. So we, we those 8am appointments are very booked. I'm sure we're busy, efficiency driven, mostly female. But yes, we read those early appointments are golden.

Amy: 7:09

Yeah, I recently posted on my Instagram on a few saw, but I got an early an early appointment around like 830. And it was so helpful, because I feel like I've been saying that for years being you know, working in corporate America, I never have time to do anything. I'm like, why don't these salons open at eight in the morning. So I can just go on my way to work and just like get it over with instead of like they open at 10am Like when am I supposed to go and so that's it's so helpful and amazing. And then the fact that you're open late, same thing, if you just you know, don't get to it in the morning. So I love that. That's so helpful.

Katie: 7:39

Yeah, and you have locations in Manhattan and Westport, which has to do with festa worlds. Oh,

Unknown: 7:48

amazing. Okay, so we have locations. We have seven in New York in New York City. And then we have Westport, Connecticut, which I think of as still sort of the New York market. The open Bethesda, we're opening three more in the DC area. So first, and then the other three will be opening in the next month to two months. And we have over 30 leases signed. And those are all US Miami, Dallas, Houston. And then a few other markets coming soon and more in New York City, Miami and the same markets. That's so exciting. Yeah, that's

Katie: 8:25

amazing. Amazing. Congratulations.

Amy: 8:27

That's so much fun. Congrats. Yeah. How do you pick your markets?

Unknown: 8:31

So we started in New York, we I'm based in New York City. So this is a you know, a New York City brand at the start. And we really pick markets based on I mean, our customer is primarily female, but not not only female, I would say that we're picking markets, and really focused on convenience. So two things. Where can we cluster locations. So New York City, we have seven soon to be almost double that in New York. I think we could have even more than that. In New York City alone. There's 4200 nail salons. So there's opportunity. So we're picking markets where we can go into the market and really open several locations at once because that really speaks to our membership model. And we're looking at it as a convenience so where is this person woman going? Where's she picking up her coffee? Where's she getting her salad where's she going to work out and making GlassLab really a part of that day.

Katie: 9:30

It's so smart. The other thing that is so fun about GlossLab is you offer such great like nail art and such a really fun array of colors. And then are there also different like grades like what are the different types of manicures that you that you offer?

Unknown: 9:48

Yeah, so we have, we have long lasting polish, which is typical nail polish as you think of nail polish, and then we have our performance polish, which is it's also all Long Lasting nail polish, but it not only lasts long, it also dries in five minutes. So that's sort of our middle polish, which is my favorite. And then we have gel polish. So we use soft gels only gels that can be removed easily, because I think other gels really damage your nails. So we have three tiers of nail polish. And then we do design. But we're really also I don't want to say efficiency focus with design, but a little bit. We're not a design studio, we do design but but we have designs on our board. And it's it's on the more like in a more focused way for design.

Amy: 10:36

Yeah. And I was gonna say I actually like that, because I always love to do like a fun design here and there and most places can't do it or don't do it. Right. And I love that you only have kind of like a few and they're just like fun ones that are trendy or like something that's like, you know, you've seen online or whatever. And I liked that because then you don't have a lot of choice. It's just there's like, I don't know, whatever, like five or 10 designs. I think like last time I went in there I did. I got like foil def design, which I love. And the cool thing was is I picked it and then they're like, Oh, you could do gold foil or silver foil or whatever foil and you could do a different colors. So I liked that, like there was like a set of designs, but then you could still customize it and then like you kind of know what you're getting. So I love that because I think at other places. Yeah, it's just like, totally random. I remember what I was gonna ask you before is it only membership model? Or can you just go in without the membership?

Unknown: 11:30

It's both so membership and then all car walk in bulk an appointment. It's really it's really both.

Amy: 11:37

Okay, and then I was going to ask you the performance polish that you were mentioning that drives and drives in five minutes. Does that stay on? Like gel does?

Unknown: 11:45

No, so it applies like regular polish, it's not cured with a lamp. And then it also removes like a regular polish, but it dries in five minutes. It's amazing. Like your nails are really dry in five minutes.

Amy: 11:59

And does it chip like I mean, I can since gels were invented I can't get anything else because when I get like normal a normal manicure for me it chips in like one second does this one chip as easily as the other or is it like more in the gel?

Unknown: 12:12

It's not like gel, so it's not like I like to get gel when I'm traveling or when I have a very busy week and I just need my nails to be completely Chipless for a period of time and especially when traveling because I feel like traveling by the time I zip my suitcase like to leave my nails you're done. So I love gel for me gel really weakens my nails if I do it too much. So I like to do gel like maximum once a month. And then the rest I do performance polish. Yeah. It after a certain amount of days. It does chip. Yeah, like Northen, you

Amy: 12:49

just you have you have unlimited so you just go back and get it fixed. Right. I'm gonna start doing that because I've noticed that my nails well they were weak to start with, but they're even weaker. And I feel like since I've been using gel like it doesn't last as long because they're just like not so I feel like my nails need a break. So that's a good tip. I like that.

Unknown: 13:06

It's good. And it's also the gel will end up not as lasting as long if you write gel.

Amy: 13:11

That's what's been happening to me. Do

Katie: 13:12

you have some tips for strengthening weak nails? My nails are always weak. I think it's partly because of my thyroid. People that have thyroid issues, say weak nails. I don't know if you know this, but as unhealthy. Yeah, so

Unknown: 13:26

probably shouldn't do that because I have I have hypo thyroid too. So I probably but I didn't know that but it makes sense. Other tips so we were actually launching our products and oh next month and going forward. We exciting. Yes, so exciting. We have an amazing this is my favorite favorite product. It's called our super boost. And I've spent about a year sort of coming up with this product when we looked to make a nail treatment. There was so much on the market there was like a nail strengthener nail hardener rich filler like so many different things. And we created this super boost which is like I like to think of it as like a little shot of vitamins for your nails. So it's like everything in one and it go it applies with this like sheer pinkish color so it doesn't apply completely shear. And I love to use it in between manicures, like if I'm at home and I'm taking off my Polish I know I'm getting a manicure the next day I'll apply the super boost. You can apply it on top of a nail of a manicure if it's a light color. But it's really really great and just as amazing for your nails.

Amy: 14:34

When will that be launching

Unknown: 14:36

that we'll be launching this summer. Nice.

Amy: 14:39

And where where can people buy it?

Unknown: 14:42

People can buy it on our website and stores. So we're yeah we're really excited. That's great. Thank you and then the other tip I mean really just as I was saying is I would definitely recommend breaks from gel because I think that's it just really weakens nails.

Katie: 14:58

Do you is collagen good for now. How do you know that I've heard that rumor like like you know, those college and like Vital Proteins and things like that, do you? Do you know if that's legit?

Unknown: 15:09

I can't speak to if it's legit believe so, for me what works and what I tend to recommend is intake of nutrients and vitamins but also staying super hydrated. I drink tons and tons of water like this one liters on my desk all the time. And I've noticed for me that makes a big difference and then just keeping your nails very hydrated. So we're coming out with lotion, lotion, oils, coconut oils, anything that just keeps them really hydrated is great. Nice.

Amy: 15:43

Yeah, I tried to keep like some sort of oil at my desk just to like put on my cuticles. I've been out of the habit, but I need to refill just to like, keep things moisturized. Yeah, and hydrated. I was going to ask you to so just back to the waterless thing. So I'm just trying to understand. So why does so many salons use water? If it's not hygienic? Like what's the benefit of using water water overnight using water?

Unknown: 16:11

Yeah, we so part of my diligence for loss lab, I went to nail technician training school, I really wanted to get under the hood of the business, I would not recommend getting a manicure from me, I'm not very good at that. I really wanted to understand more about the business. And it's really just historically water has been taught as part of the service, but it really doesn't have a function. I think it's if you want to clean the feed or soak the feed for us, all of those just lead to germs and bacteria. So we've completely eliminated it.

Katie: 16:46

Yeah, I like that. I think. I mean, I've heard like plenty of horror stories of things that happen with pedicures and water and everything. So it's really brilliant. And I've never seen it before. Anywhere that it's it seems like all the salons all. They all do the water. Right. So it's it's ingenious. So do you have any exciting nail trends that you can tell us about what's like new colors, combinations? So what's happening this year?

Amy: 17:13

We did this trends episode earlier this year. Member cating we were talking about some of those nails that were like supposedly going to be hot for 2022. I read some of them down. And I don't know if this holds true. We'll see what Rachel the extra things they were it was like multicolor nails. It was the American manicure which I get a lot neutrals. DIY, of course I know has gotten a big focus because of the pandemic decals, waves, mixed textures. Those are the things that we found when we were doing research earlier this year that would kind of be popping this year.

Unknown: 17:45

What do you know, I think so we see a lot of the waves of all of those that you mentioned. For us foils are which I know you said you tried are amazing. That's been a huge trend for us. And what I love about foils is they're super easy to get under nails. And it looks like design. It is a design. Yeah,

Amy: 18:04

I watched her do it. I was like, Oh, you like press it on. It's so cool.

Unknown: 18:08

And it takes five minutes. So instead of 60 minutes to get a very intricate design. It's much quicker and I think looks very cool. So I would say foils for sure. And then with summer approaching, we're seeing a lot of neons like just neons neon pedicures neon blue, yellow, green, pink, etc.

Katie: 18:33

But number what is the American manicure? What's that mean? Amy, what were you saying you'd get?

Amy: 18:39

It's like, um, you know, I'll do like a it's almost like a French manicure but the top is like a fun color. Oh, like

Katie: 18:46

where the lights are the tip. The tip like you'll

Amy: 18:50

do like a white French manicure, but instead of the French being white the French is like Oh, cute. Now neon yellow love banger you know, it's just it's like a fun little have a Kardashian. So I think that's what I think that's what the American American manicure means. Versus like the French manicure like the traditional so it's just like, judging it up a little bit.

Katie: 19:09

Yeah, Rachel, do you guys do the mat? I can't remember the last time I was there. Do you offer the matte finish?

Unknown: 19:16

We do. I like So that finishes is a topcoat and

Katie: 19:19

we did yeah, I love it.

Amy: 19:22

And also, I will note that the experience in the salon is so fun because I just love all the branding and you have the magazines behind you What was the inspiration for like the black and white magazine inspo design. It's so fun.

Unknown: 19:36

Yeah. So with our stores, I like to think that we've thought of every detail of the experience because because that's sort of the whole premise of GlassLab was how do we make this a branded experience? So each location, it's localized, but But certain things are the same. So the Glossop wall, we have a mirror in the front, just sort of take a picture of your manicure when you're leaving, obviously waterless as I've discussed at the stations, but really the look and feel and then our nail polish wall, which actually doesn't have, as you guys know does not have nail polish bottles, it has nail tiles, so you can really see the polish and what it's going to look like on your nails. And that's the same at each location.

Amy: 20:18

Yeah, that is so smart and such a good it's such a creative and inventive way to do it. Because for our listeners, there's a big what you call like a board. And it's just as like little squares you can take out and you just see all the nail polish instead of all the bottles being there, which like half the time you're like going, you know what this looks like on my nails. And it's like, at the other nail salons will have those wheels where you're like touching all the things and everyone touches them. And you look at all the colors, and there's like 10 billion colors and you stand there forever. Like I feel like, all your colors are beautiful and curated like every single color is beautiful.

Unknown: 20:53

Yeah, yeah, thank you. And we, we also have it. So we have our GlassLab favorite section with the and we have a feature section. So we're able to show our colors, we're launching our own polish. And one takeaway I had from launching the Polish was, you're always looking for that, for example, like what's your I want to get a red what red should I get? There's 25 reds to choose from. And we're launching our polish with our OG collection first. And it's OG red and Og. Deep red. So are two reds, you're looking for red. Here's a red, red. Here's like a deeper red. And it just sort of makes that process so much more efficient and simple. Of having choices. We have like OG gray OG dark gray, some light colors, but really making that simpler, especially for the basic colors.

Katie: 21:45

Yeah, I get Yeah. Neutral selections. Sometimes like Amy gets up gets like fun with all the fun colors. And I'm more of a neutrals girl and I it's like, I could stand there for an hour. It makes my head spin when I'm at another salon. So I love I love the curated. Great. So I just want to know I mean, you are manicures and pedicures, it's always been like you said earlier an errand something that you just check off your list and you make sure you get it done. But certainly I would imagine that, you know, self care and some beauty tips that may be picked up along the way. Like why do you why is this so important? And why do you feel like offering this in such an efficient way? Is is a game changer? I mean, what is it about this little thing on our nails and having it done nicely? That makes you feel so good?

Unknown: 22:35

Yeah, I think it's I mean, to me, having a manicure is just so empowering. It makes me feel good. And I feel like if I have a chip nail, if I don't have a manicure, I don't feel as put together and really feel like it's this little thing that you can do. And it just makes you feel good. And you can you know, have the confidence to like ask for that promotion at work or talk to that person or do whatever is like, you need to feel that empowerment.

Katie: 23:08

Yeah, I agree with that. I

Amy: 23:09

think it's so true. It's also like when you get your head. I mean, we had Ali Webb on the show a couple of months ago and like, you know, the whole philosophy of dry bar is like you get your hair done, but it's really because it makes you feel confident. And it's the same thing with nails. It's like those things are the things that make you stand up straighter and make you feel confident make talk to someone different or do something different because you just have more of that confidence. What other just being now in the in the beauty world. I mean, you're in finance what you know, before you start a Glass Lab, which is I'm sure like a complete 180 What have you kind of picked up along the way from like, a beauty standpoint doesn't have to be about nails, but like, Have you learned anything that was different than than then before just now being in this business? 24/7

Unknown: 23:52

Yeah, I you know, it's funny because I, I don't I think of GlassLab Of course, we're in the beauty space. But I don't actually put it as like always beauty and sort of self care. Like I tend to not like those words. I don't know if I'm

Amy: 24:09

terrified.

Unknown: 24:12

But for me a manicure is an errand and it's really something I see as more of a routine than this. It's like I see it. Like you work out you get a manicure I related to maintenance. It's maintenance like you should just like always have a manicure always have your nails done, because it's like Yeah,

Amy: 24:30

I saw on your website it said always on always polished, which I love. Yeah, love. Yeah. So you said you have how many open now you have about 10 ish open now

Unknown: 24:39

open and then we should have about 30 open by the end of this year.

Amy: 24:43

That's amazing. So obviously the brand is doing well. But tell us about how it was like what when did you launch? Did you launch right before the pandemic?

Unknown: 24:51

We I launched? Yes in 2019. So before the pandemic Okay,

Amy: 24:54

so how was the whole pandemic like the whole COVID era for you being that you just recently launched, what happened during that timeframe and like, how are you doing? Obviously, you're doing well now. But like, take us through that I'm interested.

Unknown: 25:09

I mean, I think COVID, of course, was hard for everyone. I, as an entrepreneur, I sort of see times like that as also times of opportunity. So I think for GlassLab, thankfully, we only had two locations at the time, they were closed for a period but then reopened. And I think, given that our ethos was hygiene from day one, it really resonated even more so after COVID. Because people who maybe didn't value it as much before, really valued it valued it now, and it was really top of mind. I also think, manicures are this, it's sort of this little something that you can do for yourself. And in COVID when people were home, people wanted manicures, and it's a manager is not to like, go see somebody else. It's really just to feel good about yourself. Right. And I think that sort of resonated more so post COVID. So I feel very fortunate that, you know, we've been able to bounce back, and I think it is something that that people really value.

Amy: 26:16

Yeah, absolutely. And so you have 30 opening and then future plans, like how many how many do you plan to have dominate the dominate the nation or what?

Unknown: 26:25

Yes, I would love to have a glass slab on many, many corners throughout the country. I think nails is very much about convenience. Yeah. We've really taken that into consideration planning or locations for golf club.

Amy: 26:40

I have an idea because I've always thought of this. Which I'm sure you've thought about but do you have always wanted like a little cute. This is silly but so we have like a grooming service that comes to our house and gives our dog like a bath and a groom just you know pulls up in our driveway. It's like a little van but I'm like I have this vision of this cute van pulling up and like I can go in and get a manicure and like everybody on my street hand to like a pop up any plans for things like that.

Unknown: 27:09

It's a great idea. My team. No plans get mad, but I love that.

Amy: 27:15

Yeah. And then final question before we get to our speed round. Are your nails always polished as the founder of gloss lab? On always polished I love it. I need that mantra in my head because minor, I would say 85% of the time polished but now that I have a Glass Lab in my hood, I'm much more prepared to be always on and always polished.

Katie: 27:38

And I want to see do you can we? Oh, sorry. Oh,

Amy: 27:42

yeah. What are you wearing today?

Unknown: 27:43

I have this is actually one of our polishes. It's a slate. It's our gray. I love it.

Katie: 27:48

I think that's the one I did for our photoshoot, Amy we we hit gloss lab before our brand shoot. I love it together. It's a great color. It's a good it's a new semester with like with the neutral set. Yeah, yeah,

Amy: 28:03

me too. I love neutral gray is like my go to neutral whenever I'm like going on a trip going on a business trip. Have a meeting. It's like the classic to me. Yeah. Yeah, same. Love it. Okay, um, we're going to start off with our little quickfire rounds. Okay, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Unknown: 28:22

My favorite wellness or beauty hack is I love coconut oil. Like from the kitchen, coconut oil, skin hair everywhere.

Katie: 28:32

nicely on your face as well. Your skin is gorgeous. You've absolutely glowing. Wow.

Unknown: 28:38

On my skin, I love oils. It's kind of a little greasy and gross. But

Amy: 28:43

I let you do you put it on and wash it off or you just put it on. I usually

Unknown: 28:47

put it on either before bed or before workout and just sweat into it and then wash it out.

Katie: 28:55

Nice. Well that's a good one. I haven't heard that before. That's great. All right, this next one we call it our five minute flow. Just got out of the shower and dry it off. And Uber has Pingu. They're five minutes away. What are you going to do? Pull yourself together what are your holy grails your go to is to get in that Uber in five minutes.

Unknown: 29:14

I am a uniform girl. So the dressing part is easy. It's like a white white t shirt like I'm wearing now. white tank top jeans. cute pair of sneakers. I can be out the door for routine I use sanyes brow pencil sanyes brow bar in New York the best. My favorite that's sort of my go to put that on a little bit of face moisture and I'm good to go. Nice.

Katie: 29:44

Great. And the last one we we want to know how do you maintain your daily nirvana.

Unknown: 29:50

So as you guys both know, as moms it's, you know, hard to find sometimes, but I I wake up soon for early and my morning is sort of most of the time if I don't get interrupted, but most of the time, that's sort of my Nirvana time. That's like my time when everybody else is sleeping. I'm awake, sort of have moments of planning my day, come quiet, get a workout in and kind of get to like, start my day and get my head together before the chaos of family and GlassLab and everything else comes in.

Katie: 30:27

Yes, I get that I do the exact same thing and mine was interrupted this morning by my four year old at 630. I was not happy

Unknown: 30:35

that I have that a lot of the time my seven year old is also a little early bird I'm like, Hold on I'm not

Amy: 30:41

ready for you're excited. You're like I need to complete my morning before I can talk to anybody else. It's

Katie: 30:45

so true. So true.

Amy: 30:48

Yeah, thank you so much for spending time with us and giving us all things nails. We're a big fan of the brand and a view and all your success congratulations are just super excited for more to come and seeing all the new products that you're rolling out so fun and well. We always end with a mantra So Kate is gonna give us our mantra today

Katie: 31:09

I like this one because you know the nails like you said it's an errand it's all a part of you know, taking care of yourself I know you don't look at it so much as like self care or treat but we don't actually our ethos is that like self care isn't really a treat either. You know, it's it's for the Nirvana sisters, your wellness and your self care at all. It's all wrapped into just your day to day and and keeping yourself healthy and happy and your wellness. So this is you are the greatest project you'll ever work on. I think that that ties that works. Yeah, I

Amy: 31:44

love that. That's a good one. So thank you so much. Thank you. This is so much fun.

Unknown: 31:49

Thank you so much. Thank

Amy: 31:50

you. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.